Stag mugglers

[+Matt_B_Good]

I notice in my area of the country especially in the more tourist type place cache swag is not traded according to the rules. The rule is that if you take something from a cache you put something of equal value or of greater value in the cache. I had a new unopened hotweels car in a cache. about $1.00 retail value. I was expecting that if someone chose to trade they would know it was worth about a dollar. The person traded but they left a quarter. WHAT AN INSULT! Why not just steal it? Basically they did. In whose warped world can you go and buy anything let alone a Hotwheels car for a quarter? It is getting bad. Some caches start out with some cool stuff. As time goes by it is all a bunch of junk. This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent swag.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Matt_B_Good

[+bittsen]

I notice in my area of the country especially in the more tourist type place cache stag is not traded according to the rules. The rule is that if you take something from a cache you put something of equal value or of greater value in the cache. I had a new unopened hotweels car in a cache. about $1.00 retail value. I was expecting that if someone chose to trade they would know it was worth about a dollar. The person traded but they left a quarter. WHAT AN INSULT! Why not just steal it? Basically they did. In whose warped world can you go and buy anything let alone a Hotwheels car for a quarter? It is getting bad. Some caches start out with some cool stuff. As time goes by it is all a bunch of junk. This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent stag.

 

First off, it's sWag.

 

I agree with you. When I first started I didn't read about swag but learned fast. I don't know that I did any unfair trades in the first 8 caches before I knew about the trade rules but I may have.

Recently I saw some swag that I really would have liked to have but I had nothing to trade so I left it behind. I have to admit there was a small part of me that wanted to "make it up next time" but the better part won.

I am sure that some have a bigger devil than angel on their shoulder. Sad but true.

[+Sol seaker]

Do you mean swag?

 

The problem is, you start out with a cache with nothing but trash in it...

 

1. You are going to have to start with what you were complaining about getting in the long run.

 

2. It's not going to get any better.

 

3. You will have people have a lousy swag experience from the start, instead of at least having a good experience at your cache for a while.

 

This is not that unusual. You can restock your cache so people continue to have an enjoyable experience, or don't worry about it.

 

OR...

 

Try a subscriber only cache if this really bothers you.

You'll most likely have better luck.

[+Sol seaker]

Also, I noticed you've got five hides while you only have 129 finds.

 

There's nothing wrong with this, and it's perfectly fine,

 

But a higher find to hide ratio teaches more about the game so you're more prepared for these things.

 

Also teaches what makes a great hide.

 

Just a thought.

[+briansnat]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

[+Chrysalides]

It's like entropy. You can fight it, but you will never win. The Third Law of Geocaching that states that the value of items in a cache tends towards zero as time increases. (yes, I'm making this up)

 

Anyway, all I can suggest is, do what you feel is right, and don't sweat about what others are doing especially if it is out of your control. If you feel strongly about it, don't trade.

[+doingitoldschool]

We hide a cache loaded with good stuff, and it only took one caching family to trade out 5 quality items for cheap crap including a knife.

It's what happens. As others have said, consider your swag a gift, and don't expect anything back.

[+sbell111]

Here's a pen that we made out of cache stag.

 

Truthfully, it wasn't cache stag because we didn't get the antler from a cache, although that would be awesome. To completely come clean, it isn't even stag. It's moose.

[+Unkle Fester]

Hence the bison tube or dreaded film can hide. No swag, stag or moose and squirrel.

 

One problem sloved, another problem perpetuated.

[+Matt_B_Good]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiotic response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way I see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your post was clearly idiotic.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Matt_B_Good

[+BlueDeuce]

hmmm, geocide by moderator. It's been awhile.

Edited September 22, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[+Matt_B_Good]

I notice in my area of the country especially in the more tourist type place cache stag is not traded according to the rules. The rule is that if you take something from a cache you put something of equal value or of greater value in the cache. I had a new unopened hotweels car in a cache. about $1.00 retail value. I was expecting that if someone chose to trade they would know it was worth about a dollar. The person traded but they left a quarter. WHAT AN INSULT! Why not just steal it? Basically they did. In whose warped world can you go and buy anything let alone a Hotwheels car for a quarter? It is getting bad. Some caches start out with some cool stuff. As time goes by it is all a bunch of junk. This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent stag.

 

First off, it's sWag.

 

I agree with you. When I first started I didn't read about swag but learned fast. I don't know that I did any unfair trades in the first 8 caches before I knew about the trade rules but I may have.

Recently I saw some swag that I really would have liked to have but I had nothing to trade so I left it behind. I have to admit there was a small part of me that wanted to "make it up next time" but the better part won.

I am sure that some have a bigger devil than angel on their shoulder. Sad but true.

 

Thank you for your post

[GOF and Bacall]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiot response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way i see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

You may be getting a PM from a mod soon. Not a good idea to start calling people names.

 

If you get yourself worked up over this stuff you are not going to be having fun with cache ownership. It sucks that caches suffer from swag entropy but it is a fact of life.

[+Matt_B_Good]

We hide a cache loaded with good stuff, and it only took one caching family to trade out 5 quality items for cheap crap including a knife.

It's what happens. As others have said, consider your swag a gift, and don't expect anything back.

 

That does stink. Look at as a gift? In a sense but I also would like to see people follow the rules. The way I look at it if someoe leaves something worth one fourth of what they took it is as insulting as leaving a quarter as a tip for a waitress when the bill was $10 plus. The rules on tipping a waitress is a minimal of a dollar 10%-20% depending on the service.

[+Matt_B_Good]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiot response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way i see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

You may be getting a PM from a mod soon. Not a good idea to start calling people names.

 

If you get yourself worked up over this stuff you are not going to be having fun with cache ownership. It sucks that caches suffer from swag entropy but it is a fact of life.

 

I wasn't name calling I was stating a fact.

[+Matt_B_Good]

It's like entropy. You can fight it, but you will never win. The Third Law of Geocaching that states that the value of items in a cache tends towards zero as time increases. (yes, I'm making this up)

 

Anyway, all I can suggest is, do what you feel is right, and don't sweat about what others are doing especially if it is out of your control. If you feel strongly about it, don't trade.

 

That is the best advice in this whole thread. Although this was one I started not traded out of. I may just not start out with anything from now on. Sad but it seems the only way.

[+runawaybunny]

Sounds like they also disregarded your command to not bring small children to the cache. Shameful.

[+Elderiss]

We hide a cache loaded with good stuff, and it only took one caching family to trade out 5 quality items for cheap crap including a knife.

It's what happens. As others have said, consider your swag a gift, and don't expect anything back.

 

That does stink. Look at as a gift? In a sense but I also would like to see people follow the rules. The way I look at it if someoe leaves something worth one fourth of what they took it is as insulting as leaving a quarter as a tip for a waitress when the bill was $10 plus. The rules on tipping a waitress is a minimal of a dollar 10%-20% depending on the service.

 

Off topic, but TIP means To Ensure Promptness. A waitress only makes a "tip" if the service is worth it. There is no minimal $1 dollar rule.

[+Castle Mischief]

rules

 

Guidelines.

[+TeamMonroes]

In this corner, US Geocacher of the Year 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 with 30,042 posts.

 

In the other, a thin skinned newcomer with 8 posts (6 from this thread and counting)

 

I just put out 5 caches with over $100 in swag plus another $50 in FTF prizes, and you're worried about 75 cents? I consider it as gifts to the community as repayment for the countless hours of enjoyment I get from the hobby.

[+ArcherDragoon]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiot response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way i see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

You may be getting a PM from a mod soon. Not a good idea to start calling people names.

 

If you get yourself worked up over this stuff you are not going to be having fun with cache ownership. It sucks that caches suffer from swag entropy but it is a fact of life.

 

I wasn't name calling I was stating a fact.

 

Sorry, you feel that way...but I agree with Briansnat...it isn't worth it to get all worked up. If you can't part with something (or handle it being traded for less that what you feel it should be)...than it is best not to leave it in a cache...

 

I know, I know...you bought it for about a $1 and thus, to you it is a $1...but, this is a free-market hobby, things are only worth what the person finding them think it is worth (sure...I know...stupid response...but it has a bit or truth to it)...

[+ChannelFadge]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiotic response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way I see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

I thought briansnat's comment was the most useful advice offered here. Theres no need to respond like that.

 

Anyway Matt_B_Good, from your response, I take it you're kinda young? if so I can understand you getting upset about 75 cents if you bought that car out of your pocket money.

 

Families with very young kids go caching, maybe some 7 year old found it and really wanted the car, they only had a quarter and thought it was a fair trade. Not everyone does it for bad reasons.

 

maybe next time dont hide anything thats worth money to you if you cant accept that people are going to take it.

[+sbell111]

We hide a cache loaded with good stuff, and it only took one caching family to trade out 5 quality items for cheap crap including a knife.

It's what happens. As others have said, consider your swag a gift, and don't expect anything back.

 

That does stink. Look at as a gift? In a sense but I also would like to see people follow the rules. The way I look at it if someoe leaves something worth one fourth of what they took it is as insulting as leaving a quarter as a tip for a waitress when the bill was $10 plus. The rules on tipping a waitress is a minimal of a dollar 10%-20% depending on the service.

Curiously, there is neither a swag trading rule or a minimum tipping rule. Both are good principles, but are not hard and fast rules, as briansnat and Elderiss explained.

[+Matt_B_Good]

Sounds like they also disregarded your command to not bring small children to the cache. Shameful.

 

Yes, that was another thing that kind of upset me. The cache is in a very dangerous area for children that don't look out for cars. It is fairly safe for teenagers and adults but even they need to be careful too. Anyone with any sense would not bring a little kid out to find this one. It is by a busy highway.

[+Matt_B_Good]

In this corner, US Geocacher of the Year 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 with 30,042 posts.

 

In the other, a thin skinned newcomer with 8 posts (6 from this thread and counting)

 

I just put out 5 caches with over $100 in swag plus another $50 in FTF prizes, and you're worried about 75 cents? I consider it as gifts to the community as repayment for the countless hours of enjoyment I get from the hobby.

 

irrelevant, totally irrelevant

[+Matt_B_Good]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiotic response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way I see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

I thought briansnat's comment was the most useful advice offered here. Theres no need to respond like that.

 

Anyway Matt_B_Good, from your response, I take it you're kinda young? if so I can understand you getting upset about 75 cents if you bought that car out of your pocket money.

 

Families with very young kids go caching, maybe some 7 year old found it and really wanted the car, they only had a quarter and thought it was a fair trade. Not everyone does it for bad reasons.

 

maybe next time dont hide anything thats worth money to you if you cant accept that people are going to take it.

 

I don't think he was helpful at all. It was the opposite of helpful.

[knowschad]

In this corner, US Geocacher of the Year 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 with 30,042 posts.

 

In the other, a thin skinned newcomer with 8 posts (6 from this thread and counting)

 

I just put out 5 caches with over $100 in swag plus another $50 in FTF prizes, and you're worried about 75 cents? I consider it as gifts to the community as repayment for the countless hours of enjoyment I get from the hobby.

 

 

I believe the OP is worked up over a 75% loss on the very first trade, not just about 75 cents. How would you feel if you went out next week to check on your caches, only to find that the swag has already been reduced to roughly $25 value?

 

 

Yes, this is a problem that probably is not going to be "fixed" by airing it in the forums, but it is a problem. And member's only doesn't seem to help much, either. I just had to pull a member's only cache yesterday for some maintenance and was shocked at the few tiny trinkets that were rolling around on the bottom of an ammo can that was once stuffed with good, and mostly new, swag.

 

 

I also think that swag should never be "bought" as in the case of the OP. This is about trading, not buying.

 

This whole thread, and all other similar lame swag threads, are about keeping the experience up there for the future finders. Personally, I'd rather see swag traders more concerned about the size of the trade than the value of it, because a full cache provides a better initial experience for the next finder than a few little things rolling around the bottom of an empty can.

[+Matt_B_Good]

In this corner, US Geocacher of the Year 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008 with 30,042 posts.

 

In the other, a thin skinned newcomer with 8 posts (6 from this thread and counting)

 

I just put out 5 caches with over $100 in swag plus another $50 in FTF prizes, and you're worried about 75 cents? I consider it as gifts to the community as repayment for the countless hours of enjoyment I get from the hobby.

 

 

I believe the OP is worked up over a 75% loss on the very first trade, not just about 75 cents. How would you feel if you went out next week to check on your caches, only to find that the swag has already been reduced to roughly $25 value?

 

 

Yes, this is a problem that probably is not going to be "fixed" by airing it in the forums, but it is a problem. And member's only doesn't seem to help much, either. I just had to pull a member's only cache yesterday for some maintenance and was shocked at the few tiny trinkets that were rolling around on the bottom of an ammo can that was once stuffed with good, and mostly new, swag.

 

 

I also think that swag should never be "bought" as in the case of the OP. This is about trading, not buying.

 

This whole thread, and all other similar lame swag threads, are about keeping the experience up there for the future finders. Personally, I'd rather see swag traders more concerned about the size of the trade than the value of it, because a full cache provides a better initial experience for the next finder than a few little things rolling around the bottom of an empty can.

 

Finally someone who understands. Thank you for the post. It was quite helpful.

[+Kit Fox]

A cache filled with nice trade items in a "park & grab" spot will lose its trade items faster than a "pizza at a weight watchers convention." Hiding nicely stocked caches in easily accessible areas is nothing more than practicing the Tragedy of the commons. If you want your cache trade items to last longer, or be traded more evenly, hide your caches in areas requiring physical effort (like a long hike). Those cachers who appreciate long hikes, and make the effort to find your cache will almost always trade up or even.

 

With over 80 "off the beaten path caches," I speak from personal experience.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Kit Fox

[+ace862]

How do you know they traded the quarter for the car you left? Looking at the cache page, the second finders say they traded a car for a car. Did the child who traded $0.25 for the car take the one that was added to the cache?

 

When I first started caching I thought the swag would be the coolest stuff. After my first dozen caches I quickly realized that was not the case. In fact, it was actually the complete opposite. Swag is just really more for the kids. That young kid probably thought the quarter out of his or her own pocket was a good trade for the car. Kids are like that.

In my first cache, I also left a brand new in the package "hotwheels" type car. In one of the logs on the cache is a young boy holding on to that car very tightly. Did he trade up or even for it? I don't know and to be honest, I really don't care. Did it make him happy to find that car in the cache? It probably did. And that's what it's all about. Not worrying whether on not you got fair trade value for you swag items. But that's just my two cents.

Cheers!

Edited September 22, 2009 by ace862

[+Matt_B_Good]

A cache filled with nice trade items in a "park & grab" spot will lose its trade items faster than a "pizza at a weight watchers convention." Hiding nicely stocked caches in easily accessible areas is nothing more than practicing the Tragedy of the commons. If you want your cache trade items to last longer, or be traded more evenly, hide your caches in areas requiring physical effort (like a long hike). Those cachers who appreciate long hikes, and make the effort to find your cache will almost always trade up or even.

 

With over 80 "off the beaten path caches," I speak from personal experience.

 

Very helpful post, thank you. Now, anyone know how to lock this thread? It is talked to death as far as I am concerned.

[CoyoteRed]

This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent swag.

It happens. It sucks. People are jerks. While you don't have to just shrug a shoulder and move on, you do have to accept that it happens. It happened to us so much that Sissy came up with the statement in my tagline area. I mean, what is "even?" Like briansnat said, (one of the most respected forum posters, IMHO) few are going to go to the effort of making sure every single trade is spot on. "Trading kindly" pretty much means consider those who come after you. How many really want to just find a quarter? Oh, yeah, trade one quarter for another one. Whoop-tee-do. Trading for a lot of folks is finding the interesting thing that others leave. It's the whole basis of trackables, really. (No, trackables are not trade items.)

 

Personally, I blame Groundspeak for the degradation of swag in caches. There's no "official" guidance on how to trade. Leaving it up to "common sense" or "common courtesy" hasn't worked. The "hands off" approach has yielded the hobby we have today. It's a missed opportunity to have something so much better.

 

Personally, I'd rather see swag traders more concerned about the size of the trade than the value of it, because a full cache provides a better initial experience for the next finder than a few little things rolling around the bottom of an empty can.

There's a cacher around here that always fills her caches to the brim with decent trinkets. She could easily split the amount into two caches and both still be well stocked. The problem with a full cache (a happy problem to be sure) is that is so hard to find the logbook and get everything back in! We end up trading out a lesser, but larger item for a smaller, more valuable item just to make a little room!

 

But, I'd take the problem of a single interesting over-full cache over any 50 uninteresting swagless caches any day, every day.

[+L&J hotwheels]

We have bought many hotwheel cars since we started caching. We leave them in any cache that is big enough. I don't care if a child (or adult) trades even for them or not, I just hope they get some enjoyment out of finding them. Isn't that what geocaching is all about, FUN.

[+jhauser42]

I have only hidden 2 caches so far. In my first one I started it out with a bunch of collectable coins. Nothing super valuable, but stuff you di not see in commerce every day. People are taking them and trading back in what the item is worth to them. Is what the item is worth to them equal to the retail value? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? No.

 

Everyone trades how they want to and no amount of griping in the forums is going to change that. Also remember that the majority of cachers do not even read the forums so your pleas are certainly falling on the wrong ears.

[+Matt_B_Good]

We have bought many hotwheel cars since we started caching. We leave them in any cache that is big enough. I don't care if a child (or adult) trades even for them or not, I just hope they get some enjoyment out of finding them. Isn't that what geocaching is all about, FUN.

 

If that works for you great but from now on the majority of my caches will start out with just crap or just the logbook. If people want to put some items in then great but from this experience and what I have seen in other caches i feel it is not worth it to put anything worth even a dollar in the thing because someone will trade down for it. On those rare times I do find a dollar in a cache I try and put a hotwheels car in trade for it granted it fits. They sell for 97¢ but with tax it comes to over a dollar. I find it is a more interesting trade item than a dollar.

[+Matt_B_Good]

I have only hidden 2 caches so far. In my first one I started it out with a bunch of collectable coins. Nothing super valuable, but stuff you di not see in commerce every day. People are taking them and trading back in what the item is worth to them. Is what the item is worth to them equal to the retail value? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? No.

 

Everyone trades how they want to and no amount of griping in the forums is going to change that. Also remember that the majority of cachers do not even read the forums so your pleas are certainly falling on the wrong ears.

 

Still wouldn't you like to see it filled with stuff that is decent rather than crap.

[+tozainamboku]

I've seen many uneven trades and some I find to be a bit cheesy but I don't get making a big deal over a difference of 75 cents in value.

 

There have been times I left something that wasn't quite as valuable as something I took and there were times I left something a bit more valuable, but the day when I have to sit there with a calculator to make sure

that the value of my trade is within X cents of what I took is the day I stop trading.

 

As a cache owner you need to realize that the swag you place in caches is your gift the to community. There are some people who will take advantage of those gifts. That's life.

 

If a 75 cents difference in value is something that sets you off then perhaps you aren't cut out for cache ownership.

 

That is the most idiot response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way i see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

You may be getting a PM from a mod soon. Not a good idea to start calling people names.

 

If you get yourself worked up over this stuff you are not going to be having fun with cache ownership. It sucks that caches suffer from swag entropy but it is a fact of life.

 

I wasn't name calling I was stating a fact.

It not a fact. It is a clear violation of the forum guidelines to call someone an idiot. briansnat advice on these forums is very highly regarded. That is one of the reasons he is a moderator in the getting started forums. The sad fact is that not everyone trades up or even. The quality of the swag in a cache almost always goes down. Several have compared this to the tragedy of the the commons, a famous concept in the environmental movement that says people will deplete share resources even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest to do so. Once you have placed a cache you have no control over what someone trades for the swag and while you can hope people will trade even it's best not to get too upset if this doesn't happen.

 

rules

 

Guidelines.

Actually rules. From the Geocaching FAQ

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

Prior version of these rules simply said, "Take something from the cache, Leave something in return, Write about it in the log" TPTB made the change to explicitly say that if you trade you should leave something of equal or greater value" At the time they did this, I think I commented that it was silly to make rules that aren't enforceable. In addition, the rule implies that geocachers must be expert appraisers and can figure out the value of what they took and what they leave.

 

Finally someone who understands. Thank you for the post. It was quite helpful.

Ah! I see, only posts that agree with you are helpful.

[+wimseyguy]

A cache filled with nice trade items in a "park & grab" spot will lose its trade items faster than a "pizza at a weight watchers convention." Hiding nicely stocked caches in easily accessible areas is nothing more than practicing the Tragedy of the commons. If you want your cache trade items to last longer, or be traded more evenly, hide your caches in areas requiring physical effort (like a long hike). Those cachers who appreciate long hikes, and make the effort to find your cache will almost always trade up or even.

 

With over 80 "off the beaten path caches," I speak from personal experience.

 

Very helpful post, thank you. Now, anyone know how to lock this thread? It is talked to death as far as I am concerned.

 

Sure, just contact a moderator with this simple request. I'm surprised one of them hasn't already been in contact with you for calling the 2007 Geocacher of the Year an idiot.

Have fun caching, and next time try a little less starch when you iron your shorts.

[+Castle Mischief]

 

rules

 

Guidelines.

Actually rules. From the Geocaching FAQ

What are the rules in Geocaching?

1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.

2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

Color me corrected.

[+Renegade Knight]

Here's a pen that we made out of cache stag.

 

Truthfully, it wasn't cache stag because we didn't get the antler from a cache, although that would be awesome. To completely come clean, it isn't even stag. It's moose.

 

Even though it's nothing like what you started out saying it was, it's still a nice looking pen. Or is it a pencil?

[+mertat]

This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent swag.

It happens. It sucks. People are jerks. While you don't have to just shrug a shoulder and move on, you do have to accept that it happens. It happened to us so much that Sissy came up with the statement in my tagline area. I mean, what is "even?" Like briansnat said, (one of the most respected forum posters, IMHO) few are going to go to the effort of making sure every single trade is spot on. "Trading kindly" pretty much means consider those who come after you. How many really want to just find a quarter? Oh, yeah, trade one quarter for another one. Whoop-tee-do. Trading for a lot of folks is finding the interesting thing that others leave. It's the whole basis of trackables, really. (No, trackables are not trade items.)

 

Personally, I blame Groundspeak for the degradation of swag in caches. There's no "official" guidance on how to trade. Leaving it up to "common sense" or "common courtesy" hasn't worked. The "hands off" approach has yielded the hobby we have today. It's a missed opportunity to have something so much better.

I pretty much agree with this post and I very much like your tag line.

 

However, I'm curious about the part I've bolded (which I'm not sure I agree with). Serious question: What kind of "official" guidance do you think would (or could) have insured even trading?

Edited September 22, 2009 by mertat

[+sbell111]

Here's a pen that we made out of cache stag.

 

Truthfully, it wasn't cache stag because we didn't get the antler from a cache, although that would be awesome. To completely come clean, it isn't even stag. It's moose.

 

Even though it's nothing like what you started out saying it was, it's still a nice looking pen. Or is it a pencil?

It's a pen. Thanks.

Edited September 22, 2009 by sbell111

[+briansnat]

That is the most idiotic response in this whole thread.

 

Thank you.

[+Castle Mischief]

This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent swag.

It happens. It sucks. People are jerks. While you don't have to just shrug a shoulder and move on, you do have to accept that it happens. It happened to us so much that Sissy came up with the statement in my tagline area. I mean, what is "even?" Like briansnat said, (one of the most respected forum posters, IMHO) few are going to go to the effort of making sure every single trade is spot on. "Trading kindly" pretty much means consider those who come after you. How many really want to just find a quarter? Oh, yeah, trade one quarter for another one. Whoop-tee-do. Trading for a lot of folks is finding the interesting thing that others leave. It's the whole basis of trackables, really. (No, trackables are not trade items.)

 

Personally, I blame Groundspeak for the degradation of swag in caches. There's no "official" guidance on how to trade. Leaving it up to "common sense" or "common courtesy" hasn't worked. The "hands off" approach has yielded the hobby we have today. It's a missed opportunity to have something so much better.

I pretty much agree with this post and I very much like your tag line.

 

However, I'm curious about the part I've bolded (which I'm not sure I agree with). Serious question: What kind of "official" guidance do you think would (or could) have insured even trading?

 

Hey guys, I was just recently corrected, that the "trade even" thing is now a rule and I suppose punishable by death or something. I look forward to seeing the Official Groundspeak Swag Auditors out on the trail, making sure every trade is on the up and up. Armed with tazers...

 

That's what you want, right?

Edited September 22, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[GOF and Bacall]

...and next time try a little less starch when you iron your shorts.

 

[+Castle Mischief]

I still have this great mental of image of a "stag muggling" that will keep me smiling no matter how far down the drain this thread will inevitably spiral.

[+ArcherDragoon]

We have bought many hotwheel cars since we started caching. We leave them in any cache that is big enough. I don't care if a child (or adult) trades even for them or not, I just hope they get some enjoyment out of finding them. Isn't that what geocaching is all about, FUN.

 

If that works for you great but from now on the majority of my caches will start out with just crap or just the logbook. If people want to put some items in then great but from this experience and what I have seen in other caches i feel it is not worth it to put anything worth even a dollar in the thing because someone will trade down for it. On those rare times I do find a dollar in a cache I try and put a hotwheels car in trade for it granted it fits. They sell for 97¢ but with tax it comes to over a dollar. I find it is a more interesting trade item than a dollar.

Do what you like...but be prepared to hear others offer advice (or criticism as you may take it) about that...

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I agree that it can be a huge disappointment, but when you view your Cache and all it's contents as a gift to the community, then you will be albe to just give and let it go. There are givers, Traders, and Takers in this game(as in all of life). If you want to enjoy the game, you'll need to learn to live with it. BTW, I've bought Hotwheels on clearance for a quarter before.

[+bittsen]

Sure, just contact a moderator with this simple request. I'm surprised one of them hasn't already been in contact with you for calling the 2007 Geocacher of the Year an idiot.

Have fun caching, and next time try a little less starch when you iron your shorts.

 

Self-proclaimed 2007 geocacher of the year. It's not an official award.

 

Just to keep things legit...

[+Vater_Araignee]

Stag? I thought we aren't suppose to put food in a cache.

 

That is the most idiot response in this whole thread. The car was in package. Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter. They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that. I even listed the value in the page. A little less value I wouldn't care about but they left less than 25% of the value of the item's value. It is not about the amount of money it is about the low percentage of value. The way i see it your part of the problem. Please don't respond to me anymore your clearly an idiot.

 

I wasn't name calling I was stating a fact.

I always recommend that when an individual attempts to call somebodies intelligence into question, the make sure that their spelling and grammar doesn't call their own into question.

 

And, you did not say idiotic you said idiot completely changing the meaning of what you intended.

You also directly called him one.

 

Anybody with any level of intelligence knows you can't buy that for a quarter.

You saying my 5 year old who rarely even sees money, and buys nothing has no intelligence?

They should have left another unopened hotwheels car, a dollar, an unopened McDonald's toy or something like that.

You can't even begin to understand how many people you ticked off by daring to suggest a chunk of McTrash is as valuable as a hotwheel. If somebody where to put that trash into one of my future caches and someone else traded a penny for it, I would make the effort to thank them for trading up and tell them they could have just CITOed it.

 

As far as I am concerned you are part of the problem you are complaining about. Heck you even said that you are going to foster that problem in the future.

Rather than fostering, may hap you should just hide micros.

 

Anyone wanna bet if he does they will be up skirts or take space a larger cache could serve in the woods?