Puzzles, Multi's and trackables

4.8k · September 21, 2009

People often say I should try a multi or a puzzle cache and I will like it.

Today I decided to look around and see if I had changed my mind about the whole puzzle/multi thing. I haven't.

While looking at different caches that were multis or puzzles I noticed a few that had trackables in them. Looking at the found logs, they were found about 1/8th of the times that similarly placed traditionals were.

Now, giving that not every cacher would trade, or take a trackable, it can be assumed that these trackables could end up trapped in a cache because it's a multi or puzzle cache. In some ways a puzzle or multi cache could end up a TB prison.

I don't think this is very nice to do to a trackable. I know I would hate to have one of my trackables (if I had one) get stuck in a puzzle, multi, or TB prison.

What are your thoughts?

September 21, 2009

TB prison... :laughing: never herd the term, but yea that would suck... as a backpacker I love multi's... they get me out on a new loop I haven't yet been.... but yea those log books sure are untouched

8.6k · September 21, 2009

As the owner of quite a lot of trackables, it doesn't bother me when they get dropped into a multi, puzzle or a high terrain cache. I don't even notice what sort of cache it is when I receive the "placed" log so, to me, it's just another geocache, just the randomness of the travel which is interesting in itself.

I usually look through all my trackables in more detail every 3 - 4 months... Then I might notice that one is still in a difficult cache. At present I've got a racing TB, Welsh Rugby Union, stuck in a 4*D cache in south Africa since early July. Hey ho :laughing: ... Just the luck of the drop.

I can appreciate that if a cacher owns only 2 or 3 trackables then it might be more annoying to find one had stalled in a hard cache.

MrsB

7.7k · September 21, 2009

Today I decided to look around and see if I had changed my mind about the whole puzzle/multi thing. I haven't.
While looking at different caches that were multis or puzzles I noticed a few that had trackables in them. Looking at the found logs, they were found about 1/8th of the times that similarly placed traditionals were.

What are your thoughts?

Well, a few points.

1. Generally I like puzzles. However, I don't like all puzzles. I don't even know if I like most puzzles - I haven't done enough to give a percentage. However, I know who are the geocachers whose puzzles I am likely to enjoy.

2. I also agree that there's a tendency for trackables to remain in puzzles for a long time, for the reason you mentioned. I usually take trackables out of puzzles when I come across them.

3. Trackables in puzzles are safer from cache plunderers, because they usually can't be bothered to put in some extra work to steal the coin.

You brought up an interesting point. If I do notice a trackable languishing in a puzzle I solved and found, I'll try to rescue it if I'm in the area.

September 21, 2009

Well we've only got two trackables and we've not done many caches so we've hardly got a wealth experience. But near us we've not noticed that trackables seem to be languishing in multi's for a long time. Our one geocoin is currently sitting in a TB hotel being left (by people who note that they "don't have enough to trade" :laughing: ) and the Travel Bulldog has been in the hands of a local cacher since the beginning of summer (but it does have a more complicated mission than "move to different caches" and said cacher has contacted us to let us know he's fixing something up - which is way more preferable to covering thousands of miles but ignoring the mission)

10.1k · September 21, 2009

I don't see t as any worse than a high difficulty cache, a high terrain cache, or a cache that requires more than a quarter mile hike.

September 21, 2009

I don't expect my caches to get found very often because they are puzzles and both require hiking some distance, but I'll swap trackables when checking on them, which I try to do fairly often. So, dropping a TB into a remote cache doesn't necessarily mean it will be trapped there.

September 21, 2009

I'm not a fan of most kinds of puzzles, although I did place a puzzle cache the other day. It's the kind of puzzle I'd like, which involves no math, but does make you use your GPS a little more than usual, as well as a little bit of geosense. Instead of simply following the needle to the final, you have to shoot bearings between three waypoints to get to the area of the final, then search. Not too difficult, but a nice hide none the less.

1.7k · September 21, 2009

Iconuts (what I call people that go crazy for coins and bugs) tend to become the best puzzle solvers because the likelihood of the target still being there is increased. Same for multies. So a bug or coin is going to bring one in eventually.

Then there is:

Dear CO,

I have a TB/coin that appears to be trapped on your cache for months.

Would you be ever so kind and help it move on its way?

Then one could always post in a regional forum.

HELP! Bug/coin trapped in GCXXXXXX!

Hi guys. I have a TB/coin that has been trapped in GCXXXXXX.

Could somebody help me out and get it moving again?

22k · September 21, 2009

I've had bugs sit in tough caches. Usually if it sits for two or three months the owner will go pick it up. I'm cool with that time frame.

1.4k · September 21, 2009

What are your thoughts?

I never leave trackables in Puzzles or Multis unless that is their goal.

7.2k · September 21, 2009

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are trackables are for tracking the natural movements of items from place to place. TB hotels, prisons, rescues, etc. are artificial constructs that impede that natural flow. So, no, I don't care if one of my trackables get dropped in a harder, less visited cache. It's simply natural.

September 21, 2009

Generally speaking, I agree about not leaving trackables in multis or puzzles.

That said, there have been exceptions; twice if memory serves. Both times they were caches that were seeing regular visits at the time (multiple visits in any given week - which given the area was about on pace with many of the traditional caches nearby anyway) and the TB's fit into the theme of the caches.

There's also another category of cache that I'm not sure about putting TB's into, unless the TB specifically wants to go there - the extraordinarily low traffic cache. We did one this summer that when we found it in late June - hadnt had any visits since the September prior & we were very surprised to see a GC in it. Even more surprised to see it had another visit a few weeks later by someone who dropped multiple trackables in it. Pretty silly if you ask me, especially considering this particilar cache probably spends 4-5 months completely buried under snow and even when it is accessible - it was quite the ordeal to get to it.

I can see doing this if someone has a trackable that they want to go to these kinds of places, but, I figure most trackable owners are like me & they want to see their trackables moving...

September 21, 2009

Actually, with all the TB's and coins that seem to go missing, I am thinking that maybe puzzles and multi's are the best places to leave trackables.

9.3k · September 21, 2009

Puzzles and multis, depending on their difficulty level, can become lonely caches, not unlike a traditional that requires a lot of effort to reach. Generally, I prefer not dropping TBs in these, as I know some bug owners want their bugs moving rapidly from cache to cache. The few exceptions I've seen are bugs/coins that specifically ask to be dropped in lonely caches. Oddly enough, for my own coins & bugs, it doesn't bother me to see them placed in lonely caches, as lonely caches are usually my favorite finds.

In either case, I would not use TB issues to decide if I liked, or disliked, a particular type of cache.

I enjoy puzzles because they make me stir my grey matter. Since I'm dumber than a bag of hammers, my grey matter needs all the stirring it can get.

I enjoy multis because they offer a slightly different vision.

5.6k · September 21, 2009

Now, giving that not every cacher would trade, or take a trackable, it can be assumed that these trackables could end up trapped in a cache because it's a multi or puzzle cache. In some ways a puzzle or multi cache could end up a TB prison.

I don't think this is very nice to do to a trackable. I know I would hate to have one of my trackables (if I had one) get stuck in a puzzle, multi, or TB prison.

What are your thoughts?

I wouldn't be too happy, either. I leave bugs and coins only in traditional caches, and nearly always do so only if I know there's fair traffic in that cache to give the owner some chance of seeing it move. In fact, I'll make a point of grabbing them if I find them in a really slow cache.

BTW, my one and only trackable item, let loose in Portugal last year, seems to be stuck in a Travel Bug Prison. Check the cache listing here (all in English now) and tell me ... would you be unhappy? GC1TJJG

Not sure with the weather changing if my coin will ever leave this site until next year (sigh).

September 22, 2009

People often say I should try a multi or a puzzle cache and I will like it.

Today I decided to look around and see if I had changed my mind about the whole puzzle/multi thing. I haven't.

While looking at different caches that were multis or puzzles I noticed a few that had trackables in them. Looking at the found logs, they were found about 1/8th of the times that similarly placed traditionals were.

Now, giving that not every cacher would trade, or take a trackable, it can be assumed that these trackables could end up trapped in a cache because it's a multi or puzzle cache. In some ways a puzzle or multi cache could end up a TB prison.

I don't think this is very nice to do to a trackable. I know I would hate to have one of my trackables (if I had one) get stuck in a puzzle, multi, or TB prison.

What are your thoughts?

I absolutely agree. Multi's & Puzzle caches are done alot less often then traditionals. Thats for sure. I don't do any puzzles as of yet. I have looked at about a dozen or so & none have really interested me much in doing them.

I do like puzzles of alot of different types in the real world. Just I haven't seen any related to geocaching YET.

Now multi's I love. Depending on the multi of course. I wish more Co's would give more details about their multi's without giving hints. Especially about distance covered. Some multi's (Like a few I have) all the waypoints are within 5 min (or less) walk of each other. On the other hand I have done a few multi's that I ended up driving about 20 miles to complete. Some multi's really act like traditionals are are really easy. I have a few that way. I also have a couple that aren't easy either.

As a responsible CO, & since I live within 5 miles of all my current caches. I keep an eye on them with the travel bugs. If a TB has been sitting in one of my caches for what I would consider to long. Then I will go pick it up and move it on it's way. Give it "Parole" <_< However, Not all cache owners do that.

That of course leads to a whole new topic of discussion for a later day in a new thread about CO's that don't take an active role in their cache hides.

One thing I will say is this. It's much better to be locked in a TB Prison cache... then to be held "Hostage" by a geocacher for an unreasonable length of time. In this case. I would much rather have the geocacher place the TB in a cache that was a multi, puzzle, or 5* that have it sitting on the geocachers kitchen table for 6 months.

TGC

5.3k · September 22, 2009

Now, giving that not every cacher would trade, or take a trackable, it can be assumed that these trackables could end up trapped in a cache because it's a multi or puzzle cache. In some ways a puzzle or multi cache could end up a TB prison.

I would come to the opposite conclusion. In my experience, people who do multis and puzzles are more responsible cachers, and less likely to steal a trackable.

YMMV, of course, but I don't think your logic is very sound.

4.8k · September 22, 2009

Now, giving that not every cacher would trade, or take a trackable, it can be assumed that these trackables could end up trapped in a cache because it's a multi or puzzle cache. In some ways a puzzle or multi cache could end up a TB prison.

I would come to the opposite conclusion. In my experience, people who do multis and puzzles are more responsible cachers, and less likely to steal a trackable.

YMMV, of course, but I don't think your logic is very sound.

I was not indicating that anyone would steal a trackable. I was merely commenting on how the trackable could get stuck in a cache because the cache isn't accessed regularly. My logic is sound.

BTW, I have no idea what YMMV means.

5.6k · September 22, 2009

Your mileage....

4.8k · September 22, 2009

Your mileage....

OK, doesn't make sense in that context. I like real communication.

September 22, 2009

I have several multi/puzzle cache and I own quite a few TBs and coins. From the trackable owners point of view, I would not like my trackables ending up in multi/puzzle caches as the whole idea behind trackables is movement. Having a TB or a coin camped out in an insanely difficult puzzle or a 7 stage multi pretty much signs the death certificate on a trackable. Therefore, I have my own rule of not putting TBs or coins into multis/puzzle caches for this reason.

Edited September 22, 2009 by mc3cats

7.7k · September 22, 2009

OK, doesn't make sense in that context. I like real communication.

"YMMV" makes perfect sense in the context that fizzy uses it. Though I agree that he may have missed your point and that I think your logic is sound. It doesn't take a statistician to pull up find logs of puzzles and compare the finds to traditionals.

BTW, I have no idea what YMMV means.

YMMV, but I don't think BTW counts as "real communication" by your definition

4.8k · September 22, 2009

YMMV, but I don't think BTW counts as "real communication" by your definition

But in the sense of a sarcastic post, it makes complete sense.

September 22, 2009

9.3k · September 22, 2009

I wish more Co's would give more details about their multi's

Can I get an "Amen"? I don't like going in blind. If a multi doesn't list the number of stages and/or the distance covered, I avoid it.

2.1k · September 22, 2009

BTW, my one and only trackable item, let loose in Portugal last year, seems to be stuck in a Travel Bug Prison. Check the cache listing here (all in English now) and tell me ... would you be unhappy? GC1TJJG

Not sure with the weather changing if my coin will ever leave this site until next year (sigh).

Isn't the official rule that COs can't apply arbitrary trackable-trading rules on their caches? Try emailing one of the recent finders to ask them to go back & grab your TB - they might just do it!

5.6k · September 22, 2009

BTW, my one and only trackable item, let loose in Portugal last year, seems to be stuck in a Travel Bug Prison. Check the cache listing here (all in English now) and tell me ... would you be unhappy? GC1TJJG

Not sure with the weather changing if my coin will ever leave this site until next year (sigh).

Isn't the official rule that COs can't apply arbitrary trackable-trading rules on their caches? Try emailing one of the recent finders to ask them to go back & grab your TB - they might just do it!

The CO can post any rules he or she wishes about bug and coin swaps, but NOBODY is obligated to adhere to those rules.

There are no official GC rules for this, but many cachers disapprove. Jeremy has commented on this practice before: "The idea is to help move the Travel Bug faster. Artificial rules just make the bugs sit in a cache for far too long. Remember folks - the first part of Travel Bug is Travel - not Trade."

A travel bug/coin hotel should be placed by a CO for the convenience of those cachers who are moving bugs and coins. If a cache is advertised as such and done well, place it and they will come. This business about trying to force inventory to exist to keep people using your cache is bogus. If you have a well done TB cache in an area where one is actually needed, it won't be necessary to try to impose artificial constraints on cachers this way.

That's my take...

1.7k · September 22, 2009

BTW, my one and only trackable item, let loose in Portugal last year, seems to be stuck in a Travel Bug Prison. Check the cache listing here (all in English now) and tell me ... would you be unhappy? GC1TJJG

Not sure with the weather changing if my coin will ever leave this site until next year (sigh).

Isn't the official rule that COs can't apply arbitrary trackable-trading rules on their caches? Try emailing one of the recent finders to ask them to go back & grab your TB - they might just do it!

The CO can post any rules he or she wishes about bug and coin swaps, but NOBODY is obligated to adhere to those rules.

There are no official GC rules for this, but many cachers disapprove. Jeremy has commented on this practice before: "The idea is to help move the Travel Bug faster. Artificial rules just make the bugs sit in a cache for far too long. Remember folks - the first part of Travel Bug is Travel - not Trade."

A travel bug/coin hotel should be placed by a CO for the convenience of those cachers who are moving bugs and coins. If a cache is advertised as such and done well, place it and they will come. This business about trying to force inventory to exist to keep people using your cache is bogus. If you have a well done TB cache in an area where one is actually needed, it won't be necessary to try to impose artificial constraints on cachers this way.

That's my take...

clap clap clap.

Puzzles, Multi's and trackables

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