Timed puzzle cache?

[+Rbotguy]

I have been considering placing my second cache and toying with the idea of a cache that is only available at midnight under the light of a full moon (I have already figured out the tech required to accomplish it). This fact would be either clearly spelled out on the cache page or be revealed after solving some kind of puzzle (decoding some runes might be appropriate).

 

I like the idea that cachers may wind up "clumping" around the cache on clear nights with a full moon. What better time to hook up with fellow puzzle cache enthusiasts?

 

I figured I would throw the idea out there and see if it sounded like a good idea to anyone else, or if I would only get responses like "There's no way in #!$* I'd try a cache at midnight, especially under a full moon!"

 

I would appreciate any feedback.

[GOF and Bacall]

Don't be surprised when someone logs it on a moonless night. It never ceases to amaze me what some of these people can figure out. That and there is the ever present PAF network. Most are not too bad but some will just let everyone on their list know exactly how to get to and log the final without the work.

[+Chrysalides]

I have been considering placing my second cache and toying with the idea of a cache that is only available at midnight under the light of a full moon (I have already figured out the tech required to accomplish it).

I'm not sure about the weather in your area. Rain or cloudy nights might reduce the number of nights the cache can be done. I'm intrigued by the idea though. And if there's one, I'll definitely try to "hack" it by finding a way around the requirement just for fun - though I won't log a find if it offends the cache owner.

[+bittsen]

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year.

 

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

[GOF and Bacall]

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year.

 

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

Talk about your puritan elitists.

[+bittsen]

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year.

 

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

Talk about your puritan elitists.

 

GGGGGOTGGGGG

 

Edited September 20, 2009 by bittsen

[+The Blorenges]

I'm intrigued. I'd love to know how you believe that you can set a puzzle cache that could only be found within the timeframe of a full moon... hmmm... fascinating... I like it!

 

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year...

 

If it was anywhere near us it's exactly the sort of cache that I would make an effort to find. I would definitely try to be one of those "2 or 3" finders per year.

 

MrsB

[GOF and Bacall]

I'm intrigued. I'd love to know how you believe that you can set a puzzle cache that could only be found within the timeframe of a full moon... hmmm... fascinating... I like it!

 

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year...

 

If it was anywhere near us it's exactly the sort of cache that I would make an effort to find. I would definitely try to be one of those "2 or 3" finders per year.

 

MrsB

 

Oh, most certainly! If for no other reason than to see how it's done.

[+Chrysalides]

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

Cool.. time for another religious war? I won't be participating this time, I'm just sitting back to wait for the fireworks, if any. Just can't sum up the energy to argue. Besides, bittsen's opinion on the topic matters to me about as much as mine does to him.

[+runawaybunny]

 

If it was anywhere near us it's exactly the sort of cache that I would make an effort to find. I would definitely try to be one of those "2 or 3" finders per year.

 

MrsB

 

Same here, depending on the simplicity of the puzzle. We can be quite clueless about solving puzzles unless the instructions are unmistakably obvious.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I'm intrigued. I'd love to know how you believe that you can set a puzzle cache that could only be found within the timeframe of a full moon... hmmm... fascinating... I like it!

 

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year...

 

If it was anywhere near us it's exactly the sort of cache that I would make an effort to find. I would definitely try to be one of those "2 or 3" finders per year.

 

MrsB

*Looks down at signature*

Don't you know it.

Might even be armed, just in case a FTF hound tries to jump me.

[+rob3k]

If you can really pull this off I think you'd probably get more than 2 or 3 finds per year due to it being so unique. You'd probably have threads on the local caching boards with updates on the weather forecast for the next full moon. Now, after the initial flurry from local finders to whom this sort of thing appeals, it might die way off... But that would probably take several months (at least) due to the nature of the hide.

 

It's possible your reviewer would have an issue with a cache that is available this infrequently. Probably best to run this by him or her before setting things up. I'm not sure if there is a guideline dealing with that or not.

 

I'd also be curious how you could set something like this up. Especially if it's not an expensive rig.

[+fegan]

Not everyone does night caches at night, let alone at midnight on a full moon.

[+mrbort]

I like this idea a lot if you could get it to work! I especially like the idea of it bringing people to the cache at the same time and the associations that could result. The social factor has immense potential if you can get it to work so that those there can all sign the log without it retracting (assuming that it's robotic based on your username) and that the log actually gets replaced. Low find numbers hopefully won't worry you because if this works it would potentially be a unique caching experience for many. If implemented well, I could see it becoming a magnet cache that would pull in cachers from other areas as well.

 

As rob3k mentioned, the fact that it would not be available more than once (or twice in a blue moon ) a month might be an issue but then again there are caches that probably spend most of the year inaccessible due to snow etc...

 

Good luck and if you make it, please let us know... i'm very curious to hear the response to it.

 

One thing would be to run the idea through your reviewer though to make sure that it would fly before putting a ton of time and effort into making the actual cache.

[+mrbort]

Not everyone does night caches at night, let alone at midnight on a full moon.

 

I think that the point here is not that it would be restricted by merely saying "you must log this night cache at midnight under a full moon" but instead that there would be some tech making it so that it would be impossible to sign at any time other than at midnight under a full moon. So those that do night caches at other times would be out of luck on this one

[+Kit Fox]

Cool idea but, be sure to get the cache posted at the very beginning of the "Waxing Gibbous" cycle.

[+flask]

IF you really can make it impossible to find the cache except at midnight undera full moon, i would drive eight or nine hours to come find it.

 

that's capital.

[+WRASTRO]

I would do it if I knew about it. Sounds like it would be very cool and would be a great discussion topic at local meet and greets.

[+atmospherium]

I would certainly give it a try, like others said, if only to see how it was accomplished. I like night caches anyways.

 

And certainly someone will eventually figure out how to do it at high noon on the day of the Summer Solstice.

[+Taoiseach]

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

They can be very fun, and very rewarding.

 

Perhaps you should try one one day

 

(Note: I'm not trying to be snide or condescending in any way, these are the problems with text-only communications. I'm actually suggesting that you try out a few puzzles & multis. They can be quite addictive if properly done!)

[+bittsen]

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

They can be very fun, and very rewarding.

 

Perhaps you should try one one day

 

(Note: I'm not trying to be snide or condescending in any way, these are the problems with text-only communications. I'm actually suggesting that you try out a few puzzles & multis. They can be quite addictive if properly done!)

 

You are not the first person to suggest this. I have even had people suggest it in person.

I can do puzzles all day and all night that have nothing to do with caching and don't do them. Why would I do one because it leads to a cache?

 

I'm not trying to be snide either. I just don't see the point in marrying hobbies together. I have no ill feelings for those who love puzzle caches, I just don't get the point.

[+Jackalgirl]

I would absolutely love to find a cache like this. It sounds like a blast. I'd be really interesting in finding out how it works, too!

[+fizzymagic]

Last year, in our area, the evil Venona put out a cache with one of those scrolling LED message badges in it.

 

You could use one of those: Put the final coordinates into it, and put it out. Battery will only last about 48 hours, so if people don't solve the puzzle and get to it by then, it's too late until you put another battery in and reprogram it.

[+Growf]

I get the impression that that the cache is available at all times, but that it is in some way locked except during the appropriate window in time.

 

Mechanically, I'm not sure how it would be done, but determining the phase of the moon on a given date is (programmatically speaking) quite simple -- search Google for "full moon algorithm". I assume the OP has figured out a way to marry a programmable timer to a locking mechanism...

[+Chrysalides]

I get the impression that that the cache is available at all times, but that it is in some way locked except during the appropriate window in time.

 

Mechanically, I'm not sure how it would be done, but determining the phase of the moon on a given date is (programmatically speaking) quite simple -- search Google for "full moon algorithm". I assume the OP has figured out a way to marry a programmable timer to a locking mechanism...

That's certainly one way of doing it. But it better be in some place where the public will not come across it. It'll need fairly hefty batteries to keep it running, circuit boards, wires, etc. Kind of things that makes the bomb squad nervous.

 

I'd think it would be easier for the OP to go out and place the cache about 1 hour before midnight on the days. High maintenance, but would definitely work.

[+fizzymagic]

I get the impression that that the cache is available at all times, but that it is in some way locked except during the appropriate window in time.

Yeah, I have thought about that as well. Find a friend who owns a business with Internet access. Put a scrolling LED sign in the window that usually has some non-geocaching message on it. Set it up so that, for a short period of time, the message changes to the final coords. With one of those web-server-based LED signs, you can even change the message remotely.

 

This would meet the requirements: does not require entry into the business (in fact it works best when the business is closed) and is in no way advertising the business.

 

We've had some in the Bay Area using similar methods, only using websites rather than physical signs, but you get the general idea.

 

The particular idea I was playing with for this one would be to have a puzzle that the finder must solve. When he/she does so and enters the correct answer into a Web page. It would then direct the finder to a particular location at a particular time, where the coords would be displayed.

 

So far, I have everything but the LED sign, which (it turns out) can be quite expensive.

[+Rbotguy]

My thought was something like this (My hammer is Electrical Engineering so all nails look like electronics projects to me):

 

The cache is placed some distance away from the coordinates listed on the cache page. At the appropriate time (battery backed real time clocks can run for years from a tiny lithium battery) the main circuit wakes up and checks a light sensor to see if moonlight is shining on it. The sensor might be placed physically distant from the cache and report by RF so that sneaky devils couldn't fake it out with a flashlight. If moonlight is detected, the cache unlocks and begins an FM radio transmission giving the necessary instructions for finding the cache from the given coordinates. I would definitely need to place all of the electronics in a non-accessible section of the cache container to keep them from being, um, modified...

 

If someone did give away the location of the cache, it would still be locked and only accessible for signing the log at the appropriate time. The cache would need to be large, sturdy and placed in a safe, quiet location accessible at night. I think it would be kinda neat if it were way out in the woods somewhere.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

They can be very fun, and very rewarding.

 

Perhaps you should try one one day

 

(Note: I'm not trying to be snide or condescending in any way, these are the problems with text-only communications. I'm actually suggesting that you try out a few puzzles & multis. They can be quite addictive if properly done!)

 

You are not the first person to suggest this. I have even had people suggest it in person.

I can do puzzles all day and all night that have nothing to do with caching and don't do them. Why would I do one because it leads to a cache?

 

Because it leads to a cache.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I get the impression that that the cache is available at all times, but that it is in some way locked except during the appropriate window in time.

Yeah, I have thought about that as well. Find a friend who owns a business with Internet access. Put a scrolling LED sign in the window that usually has some non-geocaching message on it. Set it up so that, for a short period of time, the message changes to the final coords. With one of those web-server-based LED signs, you can even change the message remotely.

 

This would meet the requirements: does not require entry into the business (in fact it works best when the business is closed) and is in no way advertising the business.

 

We've had some in the Bay Area using similar methods, only using websites rather than physical signs, but you get the general idea.

 

The particular idea I was playing with for this one would be to have a puzzle that the finder must solve. When he/she does so and enters the correct answer into a Web page. It would then direct the finder to a particular location at a particular time, where the coords would be displayed.

 

So far, I have everything but the LED sign, which (it turns out) can be quite expensive.

 

While an LED sign can be quite expensive, the components for one are relatively cheap. I've been thinking for awhile about building a cache that contains a simple circuit with switches and an LED. Using either a puzzle or a series of traditional I'd provide a list of "instructions" which would tell you how to set the switches, which would illuminate a number on the LED. For example, ABcDEfG would indicate that the switches labled A, B, D, E,and G would need to be turned on, and the rest off (which would display a 2).

 

Here is a site which explains how to do it.

 

http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/experim...en_seg_led.html

[+Vater_Araignee]

My thought was something like this (My hammer is Electrical Engineering so all nails look like electronics projects to me):

 

The cache is placed some distance away from the coordinates listed on the cache page. At the appropriate time (battery backed real time clocks can run for years from a tiny lithium battery) the main circuit wakes up and checks a light sensor to see if moonlight is shining on it. The sensor might be placed physically distant from the cache and report by RF so that sneaky devils couldn't fake it out with a flashlight. If moonlight is detected, the cache unlocks and begins an FM radio transmission giving the necessary instructions for finding the cache from the given coordinates. I would definitely need to place all of the electronics in a non-accessible section of the cache container to keep them from being, um, modified...

 

If someone did give away the location of the cache, it would still be locked and only accessible for signing the log at the appropriate time. The cache would need to be large, sturdy and placed in a safe, quiet location accessible at night. I think it would be kinda neat if it were way out in the woods somewhere.

Or you could add a second photodiode to the circuit so that you have one set to look for the minimum required lumen and the second one is looking for the maximum lumen. Either range is exceeded and it wont work.

 

I see a micro controller running date/time triggering relay for a solenoid at the appropriate times.

Some solar cells to keep the controller circuit charged should keep that part running for years.

Some solar cells for the solenoid should insure that it's batteries only need to be changed about every 18 months.

 

I only flow design my more complicated projects, I pay somebody else to figure out the rest, but when I'm mostly right it saves me $200 during the design phase and keeps them under $100.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I get the impression that that the cache is available at all times, but that it is in some way locked except during the appropriate window in time.

Yeah, I have thought about that as well. Find a friend who owns a business with Internet access. Put a scrolling LED sign in the window that usually has some non-geocaching message on it. Set it up so that, for a short period of time, the message changes to the final coords. With one of those web-server-based LED signs, you can even change the message remotely.

 

This would meet the requirements: does not require entry into the business (in fact it works best when the business is closed) and is in no way advertising the business.

 

We've had some in the Bay Area using similar methods, only using websites rather than physical signs, but you get the general idea.

 

The particular idea I was playing with for this one would be to have a puzzle that the finder must solve. When he/she does so and enters the correct answer into a Web page. It would then direct the finder to a particular location at a particular time, where the coords would be displayed.

 

So far, I have everything but the LED sign, which (it turns out) can be quite expensive.

 

While an LED sign can be quite expensive, the components for one are relatively cheap. I've been thinking for awhile about building a cache that contains a simple circuit with switches and an LED. Using either a puzzle or a series of traditional I'd provide a list of "instructions" which would tell you how to set the switches, which would illuminate a number on the LED. For example, ABcDEfG would indicate that the switches labled A, B, D, E,and G would need to be turned on, and the rest off (which would display a 2).

 

Here is a site which explains how to do it.

 

http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/experim...en_seg_led.html

Dude, not even remotely the same as an internet controlled LED billboard.

I'm not knocking your idea, in fact I like it to the point that I had a cache concept for it.

Write a story.

Only capitalize letters for switch sequences that display a lock combo.

Get a lock that lets you change the combo and you can reduce PAFing.

[+bflentje]

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year.

 

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

[+Don_J]

I have been considering placing my second cache and toying with the idea of a cache that is only available at midnight under the light of a full moon (I have already figured out the tech required to accomplish it). This fact would be either clearly spelled out on the cache page or be revealed after solving some kind of puzzle (decoding some runes might be appropriate).

 

I like the idea that cachers may wind up "clumping" around the cache on clear nights with a full moon. What better time to hook up with fellow puzzle cache enthusiasts?

 

I figured I would throw the idea out there and see if it sounded like a good idea to anyone else, or if I would only get responses like "There's no way in #!$* I'd try a cache at midnight, especially under a full moon!"

 

I would appreciate any feedback.

 

I haven't read the responses yet, but I say "Go for it".

 

One of my favorite caches of all time is El Matador.

 

It is available during a half hour period, twice a day.

Something about the moon.

[+Don_J]

It is my understanding that puzzle caches don't get many finds.

Take that number, add the difficulty of the puzzle, and then multiply by the few minutes each month (OK, 28 days) that the cache is actually available and you might get 2 or 3 logs per year.

 

Personally, i think many puzzles are a perversion of geocaching but your idea would take the cake. IMHO

 

I just read all of the posts on Toz's topic. Now I understand. You simply do not like puzzle caches.

 

FWIW, I stink on puzzle caches, but I just did a 1500' vertical foot hike with Mr. Toz . Along with us was a tall man that admittedly eats too much Italian food, his wife, and a new friend that I found on the trail, her daughter, and her six month husky, that has one green eye an on blue eye.

 

Somewhere in there is a message that we are all different, and so are the caches.

 

The first time I met Toz, I stuck out my hand to shake his, and while I was still embracing his hand, I said "I hate puzzles". I had recently solved and found one of his.

 

Not all caches are for all people.

 

The closest cache on my map is .6 away. Its been there for over two years.

It's right across the street from a house, the lady there apparently waters her lawn during every single hour available on Earth. I'm muggle shy, so I've driven by about 400 times, and seen this same lady. Other people find and log this cache. The problem is mine, not the GC communities.

 

If I can't solve a puzzle, then I can't solve a puzzle. No problem I just sit back and marvel at those that do.

[+DENelson83]

We have one of those in our area (GC[redacted]).

[+Chrysalides]

Yeah, I have thought about that as well. Find a friend who owns a business with Internet access. Put a scrolling LED sign in the window that usually has some non-geocaching message on it. Set it up so that, for a short period of time, the message changes to the final coords. With one of those web-server-based LED signs, you can even change the message remotely.

That reminds me a little of that Adobe semaphore puzzle in downtown San Jose...

 

Good luck with your puzzle. I have a notification set for puzzles within a 50 mile radius of me, so I should get notified when it gets published.