Blocked public paths

[davnig]

Was out doing the Broadmead Brook cache this afternoon and not long after we set off from the road we noticed that a thin wire had been strung across the path and up the hill so you couldn't just walk around, you had to duck under.

 

The electric fence was particularly dodgy as it was thin wire with no markers at all at chest height, would have caught someone unawares quite easily, especially a child just running along not paying attention. It was live too, i checked

 

My question, isn't it illegal for landowners to block off public access in anyway, let alone if it is done in the dangerous way this was. There were some horses one side of the fence so I assume that's what the fence was there for.

 

Is there someone you can send details of such things too so they can have a word with the landowner???

 

I have emailed the Ramblers association to see of they have any ideas too.

 

If it had been safely marked out so you wouldn't miss it I would prob not be too bothered, just ducked under and carried on but it seemed a bit dangerous the way they have done it.

Edited September 20, 2009 by davnig

[+Munkeh]

Was out doing the Broadmead Brook cache this afternoon and not long after we set off from the road we noticed that a thin wire had been strung across the path and up the hill so you couldn't just walk around, you had to duck under.

 

The electric fence was particularly dodgy as it was thin wire with no markers at all at chest height, would have caught someone unawares quite easily, especially a child just running along not paying attention. It was live too, i checked

 

My question, isn't it illegal for landowners to block off public access in anyway, let alone if it is done in the dangerous way this was. There were some horses one side of the fence so I assume that's what the fence was there for.

 

Is there someone you can send details of such things too so they can have a word with the landowner???

 

I have emailed the Ramblers association to see of they have any ideas too.

 

If it had been safely marked out so you wouldn't miss it I would prob not be too bothered, just ducked under and carried on but it seemed a bit dangerous the way they have done it.

 

if its a public footpath contact your rights of way officer at the council

[+Haggis Hunter]

I would have thought that if it was erected in a way that it could cause harm to someone then they were committing a criminal offence and the police could get involved. But failing that the local authorities should be made immediately aware before someone walks into it. Worst case scenario is that a person with a pace maker walks into it or as you have stated a child runs into it. To me that constitutes assault.

[davnig]

if its a public footpath contact your rights of way officer at the council

 

Good idea to start with, I have emailed them with the details

[davnig]

I would have thought that if it was erected in a way that it could cause harm to someone then they were committing a criminal offence and the police could get involved. But failing that the local authorities should be made immediately aware before someone walks into it. Worst case scenario is that a person with a pace maker walks into it or as you have stated a child runs into it. To me that constitutes assault.

 

I can see where you're coming from, if it was on a cycle path or likewise I think i would.

 

I will see what the Rights of Way officer suggests tomorrow.

[+scottpa100]

I had very good results with contacting the Rights of Way Officer at Flintshire County Council regarding a rights of way problem on a footpath that we were having.

 

The issue was soon resolved and the Council provided a fresh copy of the Authoritative Rights of Way to the security guards who were causing the obstruction.

 

No obstructions any more. I wish you luck in your quest!

[+Walker Dan]

There are certain rules which must be adhered to when erecting electric fencing - one of which is the placement of, generally, plastic signs along a fence wire showing the presence of a live wire. For gates etc. there are handles that can be unhooked to allow passage through. I used to be involved in selling the stuff and can dig out more details if required. The effect of an electric fence system should not be under estimated - the voltages they give are very high and should any person or animal get tangled in a wire and not be able to free themselves they will be killed.

[+currykev]

My question, isn't it illegal for landowners to block off public access in anyway?

 

Fortunately it is very uncommon...but...I've seen stiles, gates and signposts that are almost impossibly walker friendly!

In my opinion it's horse farms that are the worst culprits.

[davnig]

My question, isn't it illegal for landowners to block off public access in anyway?

 

Fortunately it is very uncommon...but...I've seen stiles, gates and signposts that are almost impossibly walker friendly!

In my opinion it's horse farms that are the worst culprits.

 

There was also a gate further along that was chained up so you had to climb over, which did give doubt as to whether we were on the path but ordnance survey and the fact we found the cache just off the same path along a bit seems to confirm we were right.

[davnig]

There are certain rules which must be adhered to when erecting electric fencing - one of which is the placement of, generally, plastic signs along a fence wire showing the presence of a live wire. For gates etc. there are handles that can be unhooked to allow passage through. I used to be involved in selling the stuff and can dig out more details if required. The effect of an electric fence system should not be under estimated - the voltages they give are very high and should any person or animal get tangled in a wire and not be able to free themselves they will be killed.

 

There were no signs at all, only reason i thought it was electric was because it was nailed to the posts through orange plastic washers, oh and the fact it buzzed me when i grabbed it

[+The Forester]

For viewers in Scotland, I would slightly modify by saying that ra Cooncil person you need to contact is the Countryside Access Officer.

[+PopUpPirate]

If there is an obstruction to a path, you're permitted to remove it. From the Ramblers :

 

21. What is an obstruction on a path?

 

Anything which interferes with your right to use it, for example a barbed wire fence across the path or a heap of manure dumped on it. Dense undergrowth is not normally treated as an obstruction but is dealt with under path maintenance.

 

Highway authorities have a duty “to prevent as far as possible the stopping up or obstruction” of paths.

 

22. Can I remove an obstruction to get by?

 

Yes, provided that you are a bona fide traveller on the path and have not gone out for the specific purpose of moving the obstruction, and that you remove only as much as is necessary to get through. If you can easily go round the obstruction without causing any damage, then you should do so. But report the obstruction to the highway authority

[+Mustards]

I found an electric fence a couple of weeks ago in Modbury, I had to duck under in two places, the only sign it was electric was at the style there was a plastic casing on the wire, but the other end there was no sign and I only just managed to see it in time.

[+Fuchsiamagic]

There is a micro cache hidden in a gatepost not far from where I live and the electric fence wire is attached to the gatepost! I posted a photo of it on the cache page to warn subsequent visitors.

[+Haggis Hunter]

There is a micro cache hidden in a gatepost not far from where I live and the electric fence wire is attached to the gatepost! I posted a photo of it on the cache page to warn subsequent visitors.

I have just looked at that picture and if it had been me, an SBA log would have been submitted. The placement of that cache is stupid and dangerous.

[+mcwomble]

If there is an obstruction to a path, you're permitted to remove it. From the Ramblers :

 

21. What is an obstruction on a path?

 

Anything which interferes with your right to use it, for example a barbed wire fence across the path or a heap of manure dumped on it. Dense undergrowth is not normally treated as an obstruction but is dealt with under path maintenance.

 

Highway authorities have a duty “to prevent as far as possible the stopping up or obstruction” of paths.

 

22. Can I remove an obstruction to get by?

 

Yes, provided that you are a bona fide traveller on the path and have not gone out for the specific purpose of moving the obstruction, and that you remove only as much as is necessary to get through. If you can easily go round the obstruction without causing any damage, then you should do so. But report the obstruction to the highway authority

 

Do crops count as obstructions?

There is a little used footpath that I wish to use as part of a circular walk. When I checked out the path in July/August there was a crop of wheat in the field.

In such circumstances I'm want to walk around the field, the wildlife belt around the field continues for part of the way then suddenly stops at the corner leaving you to fight through the edge of the crop.

 

Due to the grubbing up of the hedgerows shown on the OS the field is now huge so the "walk round" is approximately 3 times the distance of the walk across.

Given that I would be causing crop damage should I walk round, is it better just to follow the line of the path?

 

The footpath markers at either side of the field are in place and look relatively recent (ie the last 5 years).

[+Moote]

I think it has been mentioned before in other threads, just because your OS map has a footpath marked on it, does not mean there is a footpath there, not saying in any examples given here that that is the case, just making the point. The map is out of date the second the surveyor leaves, so don't just remove an obstruction without checking, or you could end up with a charge of criminal damage. It is always best to refer to your local RoWO.

[+SaltercreaseRangers]

Do crops count as obstructions?

 

They can, we have local farmers growing Elephant Grass which forms an impenetrable barrier to walkers and which is now being cleared along the line of the path to enable the legal access which must be maintained

 

Daily Telegraph story, the first listed by Google

Edited September 22, 2009 by SaltercreaseRangers

[+The Other Stu]

Do crops count as obstructions?

 

They can, we have local farmers growing Elephant Grass which forms an impenetrable barrier to walkers and which is now being cleared along the line of the path to enable the legal access which must be maintained

 

We all know this goes on. I've seen it on more than one occasion on our Woburn Animal series.

 

In fact, I noticed that the path for the penultimate cache moves from left to right depending on the season

 

Many of the logs give DNFs as the farmer grows sweetcorn and doesn't bother marking the path (the cache is next too a small pond in the middle of the field)

 

When we were at GFAB we found a footpath the other day that ran through the back of someone's house. It was only because they told us about it!

[+Moote]

When we were at GFAB we found a footpath the other day that ran through the back of someone's house. It was only because they told us about it!

 

I once did a cave in Yorkshire which surfaced under a persons Kitchen window; they were very polite and helped us hose down all the mud on our kit, whilst still wearing it. Personally I think they got a buzz out of it

 

Robinson's Pot:

 

This cave has unusual access problems, the entrance being located immediately under the kitchen window of Darnbrook Farm. The National Trust have agreed to allow a permit to be issued for the second Saturday of June, September and October respectively. BCA member clubs should apply to Ric Halliwell before the March of the proposed visit as applications are drawn out of a hat at the CNCC AGM. Priority is given to clubs who have not had a permit previously.

[+agentmancuso]

I think it has been mentioned before in other threads, just because your OS map has a footpath marked on it, does not mean there is a footpath there,

 

True. The marking of a RoW on a map by no means implies a physically identifiable route on the ground.

 

The map is out of date the second the surveyor leaves,

 

Equally, the existence of a RoW is in no way affected by subsequent mapping (in)accuracies.

[+Teacosies]

The map is out of date the second the surveyor leaves,

Equally, the existence of a RoW is in no way affected by subsequent mapping (in)accuracies.

 

How can you tell if the published footpath/ROW is legitimate. There is a footpath near me, that has a branch through a field. The owners (renters) have posted a No ROW sign at the top of the filed. How would you prove one way or the other.

[+Pharisee]

The map is out of date the second the surveyor leaves,

Equally, the existence of a RoW is in no way affected by subsequent mapping (in)accuracies.

 

How can you tell if the published footpath/ROW is legitimate. There is a footpath near me, that has a branch through a field. The owners (renters) have posted a No ROW sign at the top of the filed. How would you prove one way or the other.

Check out the definitive map at your local council offices (or on their website, if they've put it there.)

[+Moote]

The map is out of date the second the surveyor leaves,

Equally, the existence of a RoW is in no way affected by subsequent mapping (in)accuracies.

 

How can you tell if the published footpath/ROW is legitimate. There is a footpath near me, that has a branch through a field. The owners (renters) have posted a No ROW sign at the top of the filed. How would you prove one way or the other.

Usually there is a string of signs which show the direction of flow, these could be finger posts, little markers and boulder markers; but that might still not imply a RoW, as a Landowner can provide an alternative which usually is to avoid a possible danger, and is usually agreed with the RoWO. If the landowner alters the RoW he would normally publish the fact with a poster or posters on route. On time that a land owner might alter the RoW, with legitimate cause would be if the field is being harvested ploughed or seeded. Or as has happened in some areas when an unforeseen danger happens such as a unknown mineshaft opening up.

[+kewfriend]

We've been quite impressed recently how landowners inc horsie types, have dealt with FPs and electrics. One even had a 'hook' to disconnect the system as you crossed the stile. In other cases the fence had been placed just into the field away from the FP around the field. They all had signage. So a thumbs up here to the country folk.

[davnig]

Update

 

Just had a reply from local council, the Rights Of Way warden for the area has the details and is investigating, will let you know if anything comes of it.

 

I's probably gone by now as it looked pretty temporary anyway, we'll see.

[+JeremyR]

I's probably gone by now as it looked pretty temporary anyway, we'll see.

Even if it has, the RoW officer will probably at least speak to the landowner or write to them to let them know that a complaint was made and to 'remind' them of their responsibility to keep the RoW clear. That way, the landowner knows that such activities will be noticed and may get them in hot water, which will hopefully stop them doing such a thing again.

[+metal-bijou]

We've been quite impressed recently how landowners inc horsie types, have dealt with FPs and electrics. One even had a 'hook' to disconnect the system as you crossed the stile. In other cases the fence had been placed just into the field away from the FP around the field. They all had signage. So a thumbs up here to the country folk.

 

Dito for me too. Was maintaing one of my caches and approached from a dirrection that I thought might be more popular for cachers and was very pleasently surprised at how the landowner had catered for "careful walkers", there was even a sign to say as such

[Jester1970]

I'm on the local council access forum, and I keep an eye on things like this in my area. There are two farms in this area who have blocked ROWs, on with a huge electrically operated gate, and the other with electric cattle fencing.

Currently in the hands of the council.

 

I'd be interested in any legislation/ practices regarding erecting electric fencing if anyone has any.

[+The Forester]

I'm on the local council access forum, and I keep an eye on things like this in my area.

 

Howdy, neighbour. I'm on the Countryside Access Steering Committee of my nearest Community Council and I too am a bit gobby on the matter.

 

Despite our wonderful Countryside Access (Scotland) Act, we don't have much Scots Law on the subject of electric fencing.

 

I know it's feeble, but the only legal thing you can do is to complain to the Council's Countryside Access Officer and perhaps copy your correspondence to the Scottish Rights Of Way Society.

 

Of course, I could tell you how to earth an electric fence ....

[+agentmancuso]

Of course, I could tell you how to earth an electric fence ....

 

Go on then.

[+currykev]

Completely OT, but I've been a thinkin'

is agentmancuso possibly....

 

a gent from Mancuso

an agent man from Cuso

an agent from Manchester who like u likes to so

But my theory is...

A gent who loves Man U, so!

 

Help or hinder please.

[+agentmancuso]

Completely OT, but I've been a thinkin'

is agentmancuso possibly....

 

a gent from Mancuso

an agent man from Cuso

an agent from Manchester who like u likes to so

But my theory is...

A gent who loves Man U, so!

 

Help or hinder please.

 

Very creative, very wrong.

 

Can't stand Man U. I'm a Thistle fan, but when I'm watching Match of the Day I support Everton.

 

'Mancuso' is just my surname. The 'Agent' was added when I joined the FBI...

[+currykev]

Thanks for the quick reply Agent Mancuso.

Can't stand Man U??

I'm liking you already.

 

TattyBye now.

[Deceangi]

Completely OT, but I've been a thinkin'

is agentmancuso possibly....

 

a gent from Mancuso

an agent man from Cuso

an agent from Manchester who like u likes to so

But my theory is...

A gent who loves Man U, so!

 

Help or hinder please.

 

Very creative, very wrong.

 

Can't stand Man U. I'm a Thistle fan, but when I'm watching Match of the Day I support Everton.

 

'Mancuso' is just my surname. The 'Agent' was added when I joined the FBI...

 

Thanks for the quick reply Agent Mancuso.

Can't stand Man U??

I'm liking you already.

 

TattyBye now.

 

Not very clever to admit, when you've got a Mancunian as one of the Reviewers .

 

Admitting a dislike of one of my Home Town teams [and yes I know before some smarty pants mentions it Old Trafford Football Ground is no in Manchester but Trafford ], and supporting a Scouse team is adding injury to insult .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So it's a good job that

 

i: I get on with Scousers [including the Plastic ones on the other side of the River (me owes a certain young lady a drink now ]

 

ii: I do not and never have liked football , despite my Father [whose no longer with us ] having a MCFC season ticket the large majority of his life, And having a daughter who is a MUFC fan

[+HazelS]

I get on with Scousers [including the Plastic ones on the other side of the River (me owes a certain young lady a drink now ]

 

 

I'll hold you to that!!!!! Good job I like Mancs - particularly ones that escape to Wales!

[Jester1970]

I'm on the local council access forum, and I keep an eye on things like this in my area.

 

Howdy, neighbour. I'm on the Countryside Access Steering Committee of my nearest Community Council and I too am a bit gobby on the matter.

 

Despite our wonderful Countryside Access (Scotland) Act, we don't have much Scots Law on the subject of electric fencing.

 

I know it's feeble, but the only legal thing you can do is to complain to the Council's Countryside Access Officer and perhaps copy your correspondence to the Scottish Rights Of Way Society.

 

Of course, I could tell you how to earth an electric fence ....

 

Already done. Scotways are helpful to a certain extent, unless it involves actually doing something....

[+qichina]

If the landowner alters the RoW he would normally publish the fact with a poster or posters on route. On time that a land owner might alter the RoW, with legitimate cause would be if the field is being harvested ploughed or seeded.

 

A landowner has no legal right to alter a PROW, unless a specific path diversion or closure order is made by the local council. That process requires an application to be made, with subsequent public notice and consultation, and if agreed, an official change to the Definitive Map.

 

Ploughing, seeding and harvesting are not legitimate grounds for preventing a walker using a right of way. Farmers are required to clear a footpath if they have planted a crop which obstructs a walkers passage - failure to do so is something which can also be reported to the council's PROW team.

[+The Forester]

I'm currently creating a 250 metre long path in a piece of woodland which I planted at Forester Towers in 1993. I want to create an enjoyable pathway, but one of several problems I have is that the the toe of the L-shaped woodland is very close to the house. I've been looking very carefully at what I can and cannot do to encourage people to enjoy the woodlands while protecting my personal privacy.

 

For that reason Ive been studying, very carefully, the land access laws of Scotland.

 

Here's something which I found in Section 14 of The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003:

 

Prohibition signs, obstructions, dangerous impediments etc.

 

(1) The owner of land in respect of which access rights are exercisable shall not, for the purpose or for the main purpose of preventing or deterring any person entitled to exercise these rights from doing so -

 

(a) put up any sign or notice;

 

( B ) put up any fence or wall, or plant, grow or permit to grow any hedge, tree or other vegetation;

 

( c) position or leave at large any animal;

 

(d) carry out any agricultural or other operation on the land; or

 

(e) take, or fail to take, any other action.

 

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one in the movies, but my interpretation of that clause of Scots Law is that the placement of an electric fence across any path, whether a Right of Way or not, is illegal and is actionable.

 

Of course this post only applies to people who live in the free world.

Edited September 29, 2009 by The Forester

[+keehotee]

 

For that reason Ive been studying, very carefully, the land access laws of Scotland.

 

Here's something which I found in Section 14 of The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003:

 

Prohibition signs, obstructions, dangerous impediments etc.

 

(1) The owner of land in respect of which access rights are exercisable shall not, for the purpose or for the main purpose of preventing or deterring any person entitled to exercise these rights from doing so -

 

(a) put up any sign or notice;

 

( B ) put up any fence or wall, or plant, grow or permit to grow any hedge, tree or other vegetation;

 

( c) position or leave at large any animal;

 

(d) carry out any agricultural or other operation on the land; or

 

(e) take, or fail to take, any other action.

 

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one in the movies, but my interpretation of that clause of Scots Law is that the placement of an electric fence across any path, whether a Right of Way or not, is illegal and is actionable.

 

Of course this post only applies to people who live in the free world.

 

But the argument would be - just as for clauses c and d - that the fence wasn't put there " for the main purpose of preventing or deterring any person entitled to exercise these rights from doing so".... but was simply there to stop animals escaping. Probably followed up with a little apology for the inconvenience caused....

[+The Other Stu]

<snnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiiiiipppppppppp>

 

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one in the movies, but my interpretation of that clause of Scots Law is that the placement of an electric fence across any path, whether a Right of Way or not, is illegal and is actionable.

 

Of course this post only applies to people who live in the free world.

 

Having visited your fair country a few weeks ago, I was a little intrigued by this myself.

 

What determines access rights?

 

I quote

 

"Part 1

of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 gives everyone

statutory access rights to most land and inland water."

 

I know there are certain rules about being so far from someone's house, Government property, businesses and so on, but according to the above, I see it as this?

• You can't put up an electric fence or barbed wire fence or in fact anything that might make it difficult for someone to enjoy your land
  
• You can't let your Chickens roam around in case they bite someone
  
• woah betide anyone who wants to keep something like cows (and Bulls!)
  
• No farming allowed in Scotland
  

What am I missing?

[+agentmancuso]

But the argument would be - just as for clauses c and d - that the fence wasn't put there " for the main purpose of preventing or deterring any person entitled to exercise these rights from doing so".... but was simply there to stop animals escaping. Probably followed up with a little apology for the inconvenience caused....

 

Very probably. But even so, the fence would have to be removed, and a landowner who repeatedly fell foul of the same law would soon get the message.

[+agentmancuso]

What determines access rights?

Nous, les citoyens. The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 did not confer access rights, but merely enshrined rights which existed de facto since time immemorial.

 

You can't put up an electric fence or barbed wire fence or in fact anything that might make it difficult for someone to enjoy your land

No. You can't put up a fence whose purpose is to make it difficult. Unfortunate side-effects are a fact of life, and will be accommodated as such by the vast majority.

 

No farming allowed in Scotland

Hardly. Farming is a major employer, and major export industry. Access difficulties in Scotland traditionally have very little to do with farmers, who are generally pretty tolerant, and a great deal to do with enormous sporting estates.

 

What am I missing?

Nothing for which you can be held accountable. The Scottish legal system law is different from the English in both principles & practice, and, critically, the constitutional basis on which the legal system of Scotland is founded is radically different; in Scotland, the people are sovereign; in England sovereignty lies with the Crown-in-Parliament.

[Jester1970]

 

For that reason Ive been studying, very carefully, the land access laws of Scotland.

 

Here's something which I found in Section 14 of The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003:

 

Prohibition signs, obstructions, dangerous impediments etc.

 

(1) The owner of land in respect of which access rights are exercisable shall not, for the purpose or for the main purpose of preventing or deterring any person entitled to exercise these rights from doing so -

 

(a) put up any sign or notice;

 

( B ) put up any fence or wall, or plant, grow or permit to grow any hedge, tree or other vegetation;

 

( c) position or leave at large any animal;

 

(d) carry out any agricultural or other operation on the land; or

 

(e) take, or fail to take, any other action.

 

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one in the movies, but my interpretation of that clause of Scots Law is that the placement of an electric fence across any path, whether a Right of Way or not, is illegal and is actionable.

 

Of course this post only applies to people who live in the free world.

 

But the argument would be - just as for clauses c and d - that the fence wasn't put there " for the main purpose of preventing or deterring any person entitled to exercise these rights from doing so".... but was simply there to stop animals escaping. Probably followed up with a little apology for the inconvenience caused....

 

Well there is one on a ROW near here which runs across open land and seems not to be to keep beasts in, but to catch out the unwary. Were it attached/adjacent to a fence I could perhaps see the point, but it's set up like a trip wire....

[+The Forester]

The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 did not confer access rights, but merely enshrined rights which existed de facto since time immemorial.

 

Good post, AgentMancuso.

 

Unfortunately the chumps in the Leith Numptorium were quite incompetent in draughting the legislation and they've opened up a dreadful can of worms which has been immensely lucrative for the scumbags of the legal trade.

 

There have been a few Court cases already, including two which produced quite perverse results.

 

The nouveau riche are the very worst landowners. A dreadful example is the Stagecoach squillionairess Madam Anne Souter-Gloag. She exploited the new legislation to erect a completely impassable "security" fence. The Sheriff Court upheld her newly created right to do that.

 

At the opposite end of the landowner spectrum is Graham Tuley. He's the inventor of the eponymous plastic tube tree-shelter. He and his wife created a wonderful piece of woodland and built three separate path networks through their woodland to accommodate walkers; cyclists; and horseriders. To preserve the integrity of the walking and cycling paths he limited horse access to those paths. A commercial horseyculture place next door complained to the Cooncil that their horses weren't being given free access to tear up one of the public footpaths and the Court upheld the complaint. Completely nuts! Fortunately the Court ruling was overturned on Appeal, but the whole thing cost Mr & Mrs Tuley a bloody huge number of tens of thousands of Pounds.

 

My problem at Forester Towers is that I want to avoid getting into any such bunfight, but I also want to create a publically accessible footpath while also protecting my domestic privacy. The new legislation has made it more difficult, not less, for me to create such a delightful pathway for people to enjoy.

 

A few years ago I created a puzzle/multi cache which involved people identifying the species of six trees on the 17 acres of Forester Towers to find the decimal digits of Minutes of Latitude and Longitude of the ammo can cachebox. The cache fell foul of some excrutiatingly tedious nitpicking by the GC.com bureaucrats, so it was never published, but it exists for private cachers (not Geocachers though). While I was creating that cache trail I was advised by a tame lawyer that I was exposing myself to all kinds of legal horrors by publishing the details and route of that cachetrail, as a result of the two new land access laws which were passed in '03.

 

I think they call it the Law of Unintended Consequences.

[+agentmancuso]

I think they call it the Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

Aye, more law = more interference = more fat fees. Eureka-for-lawyers.

 

some excrutiatingly tedious nitpicking

 

I've just been having a look at that - fists were flying, no doubt about it

 

so it was never published, but it exists for private cachers (not Geocachers though).

 

Opencache it?

[+The Other Stu]

It's a real shame that the lawyers appear to be the winners.

 

The concept sounds fantastic. I take it that there is no right to privacy then?

 

I thought that it was similar to the Sweden ROW which says that you shouldn't be within so many metres of a private dwelling?

[+Kryten]

There is nothing absolute, it's a balance.

 

Section 2 - Access rights to be exercised responsibly

so as not to cause unreasonable interference with any of the rights of any other person, inc access rights, rights associated with land ownership, etc.

 

Section 3 - Obligations of owners –

Duty to use and manage land and to conduct ownership in a way which respects access rights.

 

Section 6

Land over which access rights are not exercisable includes:

• a building or other structures or works, plant or fixed machinery

(“Structures” is later defined as not including bridge, tunnel, causeway, launching site, groyne, weir, boulder weir, embankment of canalised waterway, fence or wall or anything designed to facilitate passage).

• curtilage of buildings other than houses, works compounds, schools;

• around houses, sufficient adjacent land for a reasonable measure of privacy, and for the enjoyment of the house not to be unreasonably disturbed;

• land developed or set out as a sports or playing field, or for a particular recreational purpose;

• that excluded by virtue of past entry by payment