When to delete a log...

[+BareFeat]

Hello all

 

I have a question for the masses. I have a cache which was placed before the poison ivy started blooming.

 

The cache is pretty much covered in poison ivy now. I get many "DNF's due to poison ivy" on the log page.

Which is fine with us, we are not going to move it, a few fellow cachers have joked that i should put a big warning on the cache page saying "WARNING: This Cache is OUTDOORS!!"

 

On to my question. I've had people log this as a find on the cache page, saying "Saw cache but didn't sign the log because of Poison Ivy" .

 

What would you do, or what are your feelings on this sort of log? To me if you didn't crack it open and sign the logbook, You don't deserve credit.

 

Should I send them a note and delete the log?

Should I just delete the log?

Should I relax and let them have credit for a cache they never opened?

 

Thanks!

[+Unkle Fester]

I had about 7 caches get buried in Poison Oak, I had a few like that. So to avoid the find but no signs, I upped the difficulty and added POISON OAK CACHE #X to the title. I also put a warning in the short description. My theory: No sign, no find.

 

Funny, a local guy who is immune has taken people to them and grabbed so they could sign. I told him he should charge, they all are close together and that's 7 smileys real easy.

 

On the up side, they have never been muggled.

[+Sevencards]

Hello all

 

I have a question for the masses. I have a cache which was placed before the poison ivy started blooming.

 

The cache is pretty much covered in poison ivy now. I get many "DNF's due to poison ivy" on the log page.

Which is fine with us, we are not going to move it, a few fellow cachers have joked that i should put a big warning on the cache page saying "WARNING: This Cache is OUTDOORS!!"

 

On to my question. I've had people log this as a find on the cache page, saying "Saw cache but didn't sign the log because of Poison Ivy" .

 

What would you do, or what are your feelings on this sort of log? To me if you didn't crack it open and sign the logbook, You don't deserve credit.

 

Should I send them a note and delete the log?

Should I just delete the log?

Should I relax and let them have credit for a cache they never opened?

 

Thanks!

 

we have a similiar cache and ftf tracked through the poison ivy and must have been alergic. Unfortunately, its .5 miles into a newly opened hunting area. Our fault was when my 2 yr old was playing with the gpsr on the way out i think he moved the coordinates about 110 feet off. we fixed the coordinates and have posted on the attributes and any other cache we have placed to warn people of poisonous plants, ticks and any other outdoor obstacle we can think of. since then we have made sure to average our coordinates and keep the gpsr out of the hands of the kids when placing caches. I feel bad for the individual but what can you say, its nature and geocaching is a risk that teaches people to not always look at the gpsr but pay attention to surroundings and learn about what plants you can and cannot touch.

[+BlueDeuce]

Send them a polite email telling them sorry about the PI but that you require the log to be signed, and ask them to change the log to Note. If they don't respond within a week or two delete the log.

[+baloo&bd]

On to my question. I've had people log this as a find on the cache page, saying "Saw cache but didn't sign the log because of Poison Ivy" .

 

What would you do, or what are your feelings on this sort of log? To me if you didn't crack it open and sign the logbook, You don't deserve credit.

 

Should I send them a note and delete the log?

Should I just delete the log?

Should I relax and let them have credit for a cache they never opened?

 

 

First, put a warning on the page that the PI might be present. I am among the lucky ones that can reach right in and get it with no effect but I know many who are not as lucky. Also make sure you adjust the difficulty level when the PI is in full effect.

 

Now comes the part I am sure many will jump on me for. Delete the log. Send a note if you like, it is not necessary since signing the log is a requirement. You already know this by the way you worded the question.

 

This isn't a conversation about damp or missing logs that can not be signed. Where do you draw the line? "Drove by and saw muggles in the area. Saw the pile of sticks where the ammo box in but was not able to sign log". Realize that part of the puzzle was figuring out how to open the container, but not really good at these puzzles so logging a find".

 

Sorry, signing the log is an integral part of the process. We as owners agree to the guideline when we hide our caches that we will delete bogus online logs. Not signing the physical logs constitutes a bogus log.

[+Castle Mischief]

It's your call to delete the logs. Guidelines support signing the log prior to logging the find on-line, but it's your call. If you do delete be prepared to face the pitch-fork and torches crowd gathering below your castle. The cachers whose logs would be deleted can protest to Groundspeak and then they may or may not re-instate and lock the found it logs.

 

You may decide it's not worth the trouble.

 

Going forward... add to the description of the cache page a warning about the plants. Make sure the appropriate attribute is selected. If future seekers choose to log a Found It but don't sign the log you still have to make the same choice but at least you've made your best effort to warn them.

 

I agree, it's silly to have to warn people that are seeking caches in nature that there are danger inherent to nature, but I still do it.

[+BareFeat]

Good thoughts thanks for the ideas.

 

I have the poison attribute listed (and it is the first one listed) but I will add a note to the page saying poison ivy present.

 

I guess sending a note asking them to change it from a find to a note is best.

 

Off this topic- I just got back from another cache in town of mine, where my container is just gone-

and someone stuck my baggy full of logbook and note under a rock!!

 

grrrrrrrrrr

 

what is wrong with people? Why wouldnt someone email you with such information.

 

Thank goodness a local caching friend had yet to do the find, and she emailed us to let us know that she didnt think a baggie under a rock was probably the camo' job eluded to on the page.

 

People amaze me sometimes.

 

 

EDIT: I couldnt resist i put the big WARNING THIS CACHE IS OUTDOORS!! POISON PLANTS PRESENT AT CACHE LOCATION!!

warning on the cache page. I know ... I'm a smart a**.

Edited September 17, 2009 by BareFeat

[+ecanderson]

What would you do, or what are your feelings on this sort of log? To me if you didn't crack it open and sign the logbook, You don't deserve credit.

Not directly addressing the issue of log deletion first, I'd be curious to know if there is any way to retrieve the cache container without getting seriously involved in the poison ivy. If I were to bring a long pole, or a long pole with some sort of attachment - whatever - could I retrieve it safely? If it's flat impossible to retrieve without getting tangled up in the poison ivy, I'd move the cache. You're expecting too much.

 

Understand, I'm picturing this cache being more or less buried in the stuff - no way to really see the situation from here. If that's not the case, help us out here with more description. I'd want to see something about it in your description, at a minimum.

 

If, on the other hand, you can envision some means for safely retrieving your cache that requires some sort of special equipment (apart from renting a hazmat suit), you might consider increasing the "terrain" rating significantly. I've had caches that I could not reach without bringing along some sort of tool. If yours really fits that description, then your finders need to come back better prepared to properly snag and log the find. If it just isn't possible, why are you putting people through the exercise? I've never had an issue with poison ivy, low sensitivity to it I guess, but it really screws with some folks.

 

Impossible to reach safely: delete the cache

Possible to snag with some preparation: delete the logs

Edited September 17, 2009 by ecanderson

[+BareFeat]

Well that is just it. This cache sits at a historical marker. You can see the entire marker standing in front of it. The poison ivy is low, but probably close to 1 - 1.5 feet high. The cache is literally right behind the headstone/marker.

 

All one would need to do is find a stick 2 feet long, and "push" the cache container out towards the side of the marker. We are not talking about a jungle of poison ivy.

 

We always carry our walking sticks with us, this being one of the reasons why.

I used to be deathly allergic myself, but my sensitivity has changed dramatically as I get older, to the point where I have to try to get it now.

 

You could even use your foot to kind of scoot it out, but I suppose some people are just really crazy afraid of the poison ivy/oak.

[+Wild Thing 73]

Archive the cache, retrieve cache container and place in a new location. This adds another "1st to find" (FTF) and gets the container out of the PO....These kinds of caches are placed in the winter months, because no one in their right mind would place a container in the middle of a Poison Ivy/oak area.....I know, I was an idiot for doing just that when I started placing caches....but we all learn over time. Stay safe and out of the PO.

[+BareFeat]

Archive the cache, retrieve cache container and place in a new location. This adds another "1st to find" (FTF) and gets the container out of the PO....These kinds of caches are placed in the winter months, because no one in their right mind would place a container in the middle of a Poison Ivy/oak area.....I know, I was an idiot for doing just that when I started placing caches....but we all learn over time. Stay safe and out of the PO.

 

This is at one of our towns most historic locations, So i wont be archiving the cache. Not an option.

 

Thanks for the thought though!

 

I will consider my options for a slight "relocation" however, Or possibly turn it into some sort of puzzle cache and then move the container elsewhere.

[Clan Riffster]

What would you do, or what are your feelings on this sort of log?

While it's behavior I would not condone, I certainly wouldn't let it bug me. I hide caches because I enjoy being a cache owner, and having folks find my caches is inherent to my own rather biased vision of the game. Not everyone has the same definition of "Find" as I do, and I'm OK with that. If I ever get so anal that I'm comparing online logs with logbook signatures, I hope one of my friends will shoot me in the foot to wake me up.

 

Simplest solution?

1 ) Leave the cache where it is.

2 ) Leave the logs alone.

[+Castle Mischief]

Archive the cache, retrieve cache container and place in a new location. This adds another "1st to find" (FTF) and gets the container out of the PO....These kinds of caches are placed in the winter months, because no one in their right mind would place a container in the middle of a Poison Ivy/oak area.....I know, I was an idiot for doing just that when I started placing caches....but we all learn over time. Stay safe and out of the PO.

 

Hey, there's a baby in that bathwater!

[+Klatch]

Roundup?

[+webscouter.]

I say it depends on why you placed the cache there.

 

If you placed it to see if they could/would retrieve the cache from the poison ivy then I say no signature no find.

 

However if you placed it so that people would see the historical monument, and you believe that they were at the cache I would leave the log, after all they did see what you wanted them to see.

 

You will still have folks like me that would log a DNF but it isn't hurting to leave those others, in some cases just pushing the cache out with a stick and touching a cache that might have urushiol on it can be an extreme medical issue that requires a doctors office or ER visit.

[+webscouter.]

As a P.S. the vines can still be a problem in the winter, sometimes even more so because people cannot recognize the PI without the leaves.

[+BareFeat]

So true webscouter, as a kid some of my worst cases were during winter.

 

I was the person who's hands would swell up so bad i couldnt use them for anything, eating, writing... nothin'.

 

As I mentioned earlier, now I kind of have to roll in the stuff or ingest it to get it.

 

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I am not going to delete anyone's log. But I did send a note saying we consider it a requirement for our caches that they sign the log. And left it at that.

 

I'm going to find a safer place for this one, and make them figure out something from the marker for credit.

[+StarBrand]

I would send a gentle email saying that the intent was to retrieve the cache and sign the log -since they didn't do that you are sorry to be deleteing thier "find" log. Then go delete it.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Second the motion. Sign log. Get smiley.

I used to delete improper logs. I was told that I should give cachers the opportunity to correct their logs. So, now, I send a warning. If the log is not corrected within a week, I delete it.

[+bittsen]

On to my question. I've had people log this as a find on the cache page, saying "Saw cache but didn't sign the log because of Poison Ivy" .

 

What would you do, or what are your feelings on this sort of log? To me if you didn't crack it open and sign the logbook, You don't deserve credit.

 

Should I send them a note and delete the log?

Should I just delete the log?

Should I relax and let them have credit for a cache they never opened?

 

Here is my question. Do you audit the logs? Do you check the log to make sure everyone who logged online actually signed the logbook?

 

If the answer is no then you should let them have the smiley and here's why.

Many people will see poison ivy and not touch your cache, assume you aren't going to audit the logs, and claim the find.

Then there is the person who honestly told you they found it but didn't sign.

If you would let a smiley stand for someone who didn't tell you they didn't sigh (ie deceptive) then why would you delete the log of the honest guy?

 

And then there is this. What harm will it do to your cache if the person who wouldn't cross the poison ivy to sign the piece of paper but really found the cache? Is it really THAT important to you that they actually open the cache and sign the paper? Was the poison ivy part of the challenge? If so it's a challenge cache...

 

The bottom line is I feel that leniency is always a good course. An extra smiley isn't going to make me cry. Missing a signature isn't going to make me cry either.

 

I cache for fun and hope others are caching for fun too. A poison ivy infection is not fun and those who think it is funny to place a cache in poison ivy for a "challenge" are just sadistic. (No, I am not implying that you did it on purpose. I was just adding a variable that others might include).

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Should I send them a note and delete the log?

Should I just delete the log?

Should I relax and let them have credit for a cache they never opened?

 

Thanks!

 

I'm for #4.

SEnd them an email and ask them to chage their find to a note or DNF since they didn't sign the log.

Then they can do the right thing and honor yoru request, or go sign the log. Or they can choose not to and then you can delete the log.

[+BareFeat]

The note i sent was enough, they changed it to a "note" from a "find".

 

NO of course this was not intentionally placed in ivy!

 

And this was more conversation and me being curious how everyone else would handle this then something I was worried about.

 

To me geocaching is opening the logbook and signing if its a traditional cache.

Im not overly concerned with it certainly, and this is the first time i've come upon anyone who has

claimed a find that didn't sign the cache log first. (and we have over 20 caches hidden)

 

thanks for all the feedback, as stated we are going to include a question on this one from now on, and possibly relocate the cache to "safer" grounds.

 

Hopefully I didn't upset them with my request. I just stated that you should of course sign the logbook at the cache, and that their "find" should have been a note. But I also stated that it was their choice on if they changed it or not. (I had no intentions of deleting the log)

 

Happy caching all-

[Dj Storm]

...

thanks for all the feedback, as stated we are going to include a question on this one from now on, and possibly relocate the cache to "safer" grounds.

...

 

Make sure the cache will remain a traditional. By including a question, you might step outside the boundaries set for traditional caches. By using the benchmark to calculate the coordinates of the cache, you change the type of the hide.

 

If you delete a log because of no signature, you're in the right. If you delete it because of no (correct) answer, you'll be in the wrong. By changing the hide to a multi or puzzle while keeping it listed as a traditional, you will be in the wrong, too.

 

What would I do: leave the cache as it is now, and add some warnings about poison ivy on the cache page. If you wish, leave a stick near the benchmark and instruct the cachers to use it to retrieve and replace the cache.