Cache at the Cemetery

[DiLMar]

I am personally against this practice and it really makes me feel uncomfortable to try to find anything at the cemetery. Especially geocaching being a family oriented activity (sports game).

I went to couple of places to find a cache where it was a cemetery and didn’t get much of a pleasure doing that and the info on cache did not mention if it was a cemetery. It had a note saying that it was a “Kid Friendly”. How in the world a cemetery can be a “Kid Friendly”?! I don’t think any kid would enjoy running around dead bodies. Sorry for my language.

 

I guess my question is:

 

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

Is it really Kid Friendly?

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

 

These are the only few question I have on top of my head at the moment. I hope there will be more questions on this matter as we go.

Please, let me know what is YOUR opinion on this topic?

[PastorJon]

You get extra points for spelling "cemetery" correctly!

 

Seriously... some people like them, some don't. If it's not your cup of tea, don't do it.

 

If you choose to hunt cemetery caches, please don't start "digging around" to find the cache!

[+brokenoaks]

I am personally against this practice and it really makes me feel uncomfortable to try to find anything at the cemetery. Especially geocaching being a family oriented activity (sports game).

I went to couple of places to find a cache where it was a cemetery and didn’t get much of a pleasure doing that and the info on cache did not mention if it was a cemetery. It had a note saying that it was a “Kid Friendly”. How in the world a cemetery can be a “Kid Friendly”?! I don’t think any kid would enjoy running around dead bodies. Sorry for my language.

 

I guess my question is:

 

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

Is it really Kid Friendly?

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

 

These are the only few question I have on top of my head at the moment. I hope there will be more questions on this matter as we go.

Please, let me know what is YOUR opinion on this topic?

I think it's ok to hide a cache at a cemetery

I do not dig for caches so that's not something I would be doing at a cemetery

most cemeteries are easy to walk around in so it would be kid friendly

there is often some interesting historical things to be learned at a cemetery

family friendly? why not? death and cemeteries are not something to hide from kids

Edited September 6, 2009 by brokenoaks

[MenisCrew]

I see nothing wrong with it. We've cached in many cemetaries with the kids, and they know where they are and what the purpose of a cemetary is. As far as why you would hide a cache in a cemetary, we've learned a lot about local history caching in the older cemetaries around town. The kids love asking about names, and how old certain headstones are. We went to one cemetary not far from our house where all the people buried there were born in the early 1800's. It was very interesting to look at what names were popular and how long the life spans were back then.

Besides, none of the caches we've encountered in cemetaries are placed in "disrespectful" places. I've never had to disrupt a grave to find a cache. I don't want my kids to feel uncomfortable around the idea of death, so as long as they aren't being destructive and disrespectuful of the people buried there I don't see it being any different than a family member being at a cemetary to visit a loved one.

Edited September 6, 2009 by MenisCrew

[+Roaming Empire]

We have several pioneer cemeteries around where we live. These are all " Full " as there are no open spots. Most of these, I never knew exisited because of their size, as well as no cars parked on the roadside of visiting family members.

We enjoy going to these types and seeing the headstones that are pre-Civil War era.

[+Rainbow Spirit]

Having taken the family to find a cache at a cemetery recently, I must say we had no problems with the concept at all.

This particular cemetery had a number of graves from the original English settlers in our area, Sydney Australia, and it was more like a history lesson than being 'creepy'.

Personally I find it interesting to check out the birth and death dates of the 'residents', and some of their history.

[DiLMar]

I think it's ok to hide a cache at a cemetery

I do not dig for caches so that's not something I would be doing at a cemetery

most cemeteries are easy to walk around in so it would be kid friendly

there is often some interesting historical things to be learned at a cemetery

family friendly? why not? death and cemeteries are not something to hide from kids

 

I still don't get it how can it be family friendly. How death in particular is friendly? I understand that we all die one day but still. Isn't it depressing to even talk about it? And kids should not learn about death before they start a life. They don't even know what life is and your teaching them about death already? Why would anybody take a kid to a cemetery unless it’s a family related issue?

[+TripCyclone]

I am personally against this practice and it really makes me feel uncomfortable to try to find anything at the cemetery. Especially geocaching being a family oriented activity (sports game).

I went to couple of places to find a cache where it was a cemetery and didn’t get much of a pleasure doing that and the info on cache did not mention if it was a cemetery. It had a note saying that it was a “Kid Friendly”. How in the world a cemetery can be a “Kid Friendly”?! I don’t think any kid would enjoy running around dead bodies. Sorry for my language.

 

I guess my question is:

 

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

Is it really Kid Friendly?

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

 

These are the only few question I have on top of my head at the moment. I hope there will be more questions on this matter as we go.

Please, let me know what is YOUR opinion on this topic?

 

1. I would consider it okay provided it isn't disturbing the graves.

2. No geocache should involved DIGGING for any reason at any site. But let's assume you didn't mean it like that. I don't get bothered by walking around a cemetery looking for a geocache. Often I find myself looking around at the graves. A friend of mine was placing a geocache in a cemetery when he happened to come across a relative's graves. Relatives that passed away in a deadly house fire years back and the family had lost track of where they were buried. That geocache now tells their story.

3. It can be kid friendly if done right. If parents take their kids to cemeteries, it can be a valuable teaching moment about history, beliefs, and cleaning up after other people (I've lost count of how many times I've seen cemeteries with trash in them). And I'd hardly say that kids are running around dead bodies. That's a bit of a negative view unless you are visiting cemeteries where the bodies aren't buried. Kids sometimes don't think about things the same way adults do. What an adult sees as kid friendly and what a kid does aren't quite the same.

4. Some do it out of respect for a family member buried there. Some do it because the cemetery has historical significance. I recently saw pictures of a geocache that was incorporated into the headstones at the owner's request.

5. This comes down to looking at the value cemeteries have played throughout history. Many cultures revere burial grounds. Many cultures, including ours, have regularly used burial grounds for many purposes OTHER than as a silent place of remembrance. In fact, it used to be quite common to hold social gatherings at cemeteries, on the scale of large community parties. And they were for people to come and have fun, enjoy themselves, and pay their respects to lost loved ones. The idea that cemeteries are purely for silent worship is a rather new belief in the long history of burial grounds.

 

Now, to point out some examples of good geocaching in cemeteries.

 

There is a geocache near me in South Kansas City that was placed to highlight a cemetery where several early pioneers of the area are buried. There was another cemetery cache placed in North Kansas City a while back that, while placed near the edge of the cemetery, was placed to highlight a Revolutionary War veteran who was buried there. The only reason it was archived was due to a nearby homeowner who's dog was repeatedly jumping the yard fence and bothering people who visited the cemetery (including biting one kid). I saw one in the Kansas City that was highlighting a cemetery that was inside a parking lot. I've read reports from some geocachers who have frequently driven past it without ever realizing it was right there until they found the geocache. It's a great example of how cemeteries impact zoning laws.

 

I've seen cemetery caches that require you to visit graves and gather information. Information can vary and can include what unit a former soldier served with, what the symbols on the grave represented (a railroad union member in that case), or more basic info such as names and dates. I've seen one geocache placed in honor of a famous singer who was buried at that particular cemetery. I've seen others that highlight important historical figures of an area.

 

I've heard about geocachers organizing CITO's at cemeteries. Sometimes, they are the ONLY ones other than maintenance workers doing anything to clean up cemeteries. There have been geocachers who have worked with cemetery organizations to help map out cemeteries, including taking waypoints for each and every headstone to help provide better maps for visitors. You can help out too. Take a garbage bag with you and if you visit a cemetery, help pick up trash.

 

While a few geocachers may place cemetery caches merely for the numbers, in almost every case I've seen, there is either a personal reason for placing it there or it is done to help highlight the history of an area.

 

Do I think cemetery caches should be banned? Absolutely not.

 

Do I think that the person placing them should take into consideration where they are placing it? Oh yeah. Don't put it against a grave, don't put it in a way that disturbs a grave or requires someone to disturb a grave to get to it.

 

If they bother you, it is your choice to ignore them. Or, you could also look at them as a chance to pay your respects to someone, even if you don't know them. Look around and see what you might find. Recently, on a trip down to Dallas from Kansas City, I came across a cemetery cache. I popped in to pick it up and happened across the grave of a WW I veteran. I said a silent thanks for his efforts before I moved on. You'd be amazed at how much history can be located in a cemetery if you just take the time to look around.

 

Of course, I'd be happy to talk to you some more about it if you'd like. Everyone has their own opinions about this topic. I'm glad to see that you are at least open to hearing what others have to say. Hopefully, even if you still decide that you don't like them, you'll at least be aware of some ways they can be good too.

 

TripCyclone

[+TripCyclone]

I still don't get it how can it be family friendly. How death in particular is friendly? I understand that we all die one day but still. Isn't it depressing to even talk about it? And kids should not learn about death before they start a life. They don't even know what life is and your teaching them about death already? Why would anybody take a kid to a cemetery unless it’s a family related issue?

 

I just posted a response, but I thought of something else after reading this little bit. If you are just talking about death in general, that it is only depressing if the conversation is allowed to be depressing. I've had conversations about death that are actually enlightening. On the flip side, I'm sure that soon I will have to deal with the depressing aspects of death with respect to a relative of mine. Learning to handle the depressing along with the enlightening is part of life.

 

As to kids not learning about death before they start life. Well, that again depends on the conversation. Are you teaching kids that death is something to be avoided and feared? Are you teaching them that death only happens to bad people? Personally, I fear death myself. But sometimes, that can be a good life lesson.

 

What age kids are we talking about? If really young, I can very much understand wanting to avoid the topic. But as a teacher, I've learned that many kids have questions that parents don't realize they have. You'll have to talk about it sometime. The question is are you going to treat death as a negative thing that shouldn't be discussed, shouldn't be thought about, and should be avoided at all costs. Or are you going to treat death as another part of life, something that can be feared but can't be avoided. Something that, because it is there, is a reason to embrace life and to not have regrets.

 

It's a sensitive topic. There is no correct answer. But, I can at least say that how you handle it around kids can and will influence them. The question is what kind of influence do you want it to have?

[+webscouter.]

I am personally against this practice and it really makes me feel uncomfortable to try to find anything at the cemetery. Especially geocaching being a family oriented activity (sports game).

I went to couple of places to find a cache where it was a cemetery and didn’t get much of a pleasure doing that and the info on cache did not mention if it was a cemetery. It had a note saying that it was a “Kid Friendly”. How in the world a cemetery can be a “Kid Friendly”?! I don’t think any kid would enjoy running around dead bodies. Sorry for my language.

 

I guess my question is:

 

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

Is it really Kid Friendly?

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

 

These are the only few question I have on top of my head at the moment. I hope there will be more questions on this matter as we go.

Please, let me know what is YOUR opinion on this topic?

 

Yes they are kid friendly.

 

One of the things we have lost as a culture is a sense of who we are and were we came from. Where better to teach that families have a history than in a cemetery. You can point out family graves and dates, show how even in death families are important and meant to be together.

 

Like TripCyclone pointed out it was not uncommon for towns to have the annual picnic in the local cemetery even as recently as 60 years ago. My father can remember going out with his parents on memorial day and joining the whole town around their family members. They would clean up, add flowers and talk about fond memories and stories about their family. Some of my favorite stories are told by my grandfather and grandmother about their grandparents. They know these stories because of the picnics around their grandparents headstones.

 

Death is only sad if you only remember the event and not the lives that proceeded the death. One of the best bits of advice I overheard at a funeral that I was doing military honors for was a wise lady telling her daughter to share a funny or particularly enjoyable time that she had with the deceased. Sometimes those stories can be brought out by a visit to the site of that persons eternal resting place.

 

I hope that when I pass my kids will honor me by placing a cache hiding hole in my headstone and engraving a fond memory on my tombstone. If nothing else it will make the cost of the headstone worth the expense knowing that it gets looked at once in a while.

[+sparklygreendog]

We have no concerns about taking our children to cemeteries, and we enjoy the experience and history. I do think it is appropriate that the cache description eludes to the fact it is in a cemetery for those who do not feel comfortable there.

[+wimseyguy]

I guess my question is:

 

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

Is it really Kid Friendly?

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

 

These are the only few question I have on top of my head at the moment. I hope there will be more questions on this matter as we go.

Please, let me know what is YOUR opinion on this topic?

 

1. Yes, as long as it is placed in a manner that is respectful to the graves, and there isn't a local law prohibiting them.

2. Digging-no, looking-yes.

3. Yes, cemeteries are full of history. They are also quiet and peaceful places and far removed from Ipods/xbox/tv/etc.

4. To share an interesting location with other cachers.

5. See 1-4.

[+Col. Flagg]

"And kids should not learn about death before they start a life"

 

Obviously you did not grow up on a farm, neither did I but I know a lot of people who did. Kids on a farm learn about death at a very early age, for all things in life die, and to a lot of people the death of things, gives life(if you're vegetarian than I'm excluding you). You teach children so that they are emotionally ready for these things.

 

There is a great history that you can teach your children, I had a class in college that we did reach in a cemetery. Like all outings with children, it is what you make of it. I have taken my two year old to several cemeteries to cache, we like looking at the different head stones and see what people put on the graves. We make sure that she does run around, but usually we are the only ones there.

[DiLMar]

Im sorry its still not quite understanding to me. I have to discuss this with my real life friends and relatives and everybody that I know out of the cyber world and make up my mind. Until then I can't say anything. It will be a couple of weeks before I am done asking everybody! But still I dont think It is quite right! I guess I just have a different mentality then everybody else.

[+wimseyguy]

One of the great things about geocaching is that you can enjoy whichever aspects of it appeal to you.

Some like long hikes in the woods, some like power caching runs through parking lots or country roads.

Some like to solve puzzles and do complex multis. Recently storm drain caches have become quite popular, but I don't see that as very fun so I tend to avoid them.

A quick google of cemetery tours provided many options to visit them without even looking for a cache.

Historic Hollywood

New Orleans

Anywhere you want.

Historical Wisconsin for teachers!

Historic Boston

 

When I lived in Boston, every time I walked past King's Chapel or the Old Granary Burial Grounds I saw school groups in there doing rubbings or listening to a guide.

[+brokenoaks]

I think it's ok to hide a cache at a cemetery

I do not dig for caches so that's not something I would be doing at a cemetery

most cemeteries are easy to walk around in so it would be kid friendly

there is often some interesting historical things to be learned at a cemetery

family friendly? why not? death and cemeteries are not something to hide from kids

 

I still don't get it how can it be family friendly. How death in particular is friendly? I understand that we all die one day but still. Isn't it depressing to even talk about it? And kids should not learn about death before they start a life. They don't even know what life is and your teaching them about death already? Why would anybody take a kid to a cemetery unless it’s a family related issue?

 

I will not turn this into a debate! You asked some questions and I answered them as honest as I can. I know we do not all have the same perspective of death. my answers are not meant to persuade or influence you or anyone in any way. I did not question your opinions on the subject so please allow me to have mine and simply accept my answers as my personal beliefs.

Edited September 7, 2009 by brokenoaks

[Tahosa and Sons]

There is a lot of history to be gleaned from a cemetary. I use them as waypoints for information in several of my multis.

[+TripCyclone]

Im sorry its still not quite understanding to me. I have to discuss this with my real life friends and relatives and everybody that I know out of the cyber world and make up my mind. Until then I can't say anything. It will be a couple of weeks before I am done asking everybody! But still I dont think It is quite right! I guess I just have a different mentality then everybody else.

 

It may just end up being something you don't like. If that's the case, you can just choose not to go after them. Nobody will ever fault you for doing so.

 

As a science teacher, I often get posed questions related to topics that are controversial. I always tell my students that the best thing they can do is ask questions. Try to understand both sides of a topic. Then they will have the information to make an honest opinion. I've sometimes reminded them of a student I knew several years ago who could not give me a reason for their opinion on exactly one of those topics. They could only tell me that they believed it because they were told that everyone else was wrong and they answer they were given was right, without any justification.

 

Keep asking the questions. That's how you will make up your mind on the topic. The only thing I ask is that you remember that there are two sides and to listen to both sides openly, no matter what your final decision is. At least then, you can say that you have been fair in making your decision.

 

Good luck and if you have further questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure many of us will be happy to help.

 

TripCyclone

[+BlueDeuce]

Im sorry its still not quite understanding to me. I have to discuss this with my real life friends and relatives and everybody that I know out of the cyber world and make up my mind. Until then I can't say anything. It will be a couple of weeks before I am done asking everybody! But still I dont think It is quite right! I guess I just have a different mentality then everybody else.

 

I can guarantee that the people here in this forum are real people too. We live, we laugh, we cry, we die, just like the people we know in real life.

 

I know for a fact that everyone here is giving you a serious and real answer about how they feel.

[PastorJon]

I deal with death and dying on a regular basis... and I hope that my off-the-cuff response before didn't come across offensive to you. This is one of those topics that seems to come up every couple of weeks, and it's easy to forget that not everyone has been through the same discussions. So for the off-the-cuff nature of my comment, I apologize.

 

In all seriousness... if you don't enjoy them, then don't do them. And if they wouldn't be appropriate for your children (if you have them?) then don't do them.

 

But as someone who regularly works with people through the grieving process, I would suggest that it is better to help children understand death and dying to the degree that they are capable of understanding. A simple visit to a cemetery is a good way to introduce a child to the concept of death before it's someone that they know. It's a way to help them learn about what a cemetery is before they have to come to one for their first funeral, and have their own grief to deal with.

 

But, everyone is different... and everyone grieves differently. While I'm personally not crazy about caching in cemeteries, I can understand how it can be done (hidden and found) in a respectful and appropriate way, and I have no problems with people who incorporate that as part of their game.

[Mr.Yuck]

Im sorry its still not quite understanding to me. I have to discuss this with my real life friends and relatives and everybody that I know out of the cyber world and make up my mind. Until then I can't say anything. It will be a couple of weeks before I am done asking everybody! But still I dont think It is quite right! I guess I just have a different mentality then everybody else.

 

Naw, there are plenty of Geocachers who feel the way you do. Just none of them happen to be reading this forum on a holiday weekend, and posting to this thread. As most have said, if you don't like a particular type of cache, just ignore it. I for one do not cache in parking lots, and ignore those caches. Not cemeteries though, 4 of my 11 finds yesterday were in them.

[Cache Bandits R Us]

Love them and take all 3 of my little cachers there any time we find one in one. Great history on where we have all come from and at some point going.

[+Shastablue2]

I am personally against this practice and it really makes me feel uncomfortable to try to find anything at the cemetery. Especially geocaching being a family oriented activity (sports game).

I went to couple of places to find a cache where it was a cemetery and didn’t get much of a pleasure doing that and the info on cache did not mention if it was a cemetery. It had a note saying that it was a “Kid Friendly”. How in the world a cemetery can be a “Kid Friendly”?! I don’t think any kid would enjoy running around dead bodies. Sorry for my language.

 

I guess my question is:

 

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

Is it really Kid Friendly?

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

 

These are the only few question I have on top of my head at the moment. I hope there will be more questions on this matter as we go.

Please, let me know what is YOUR opinion on this topic?

 

 

I think cemetery hide are very respectful, and I have hunted cache there before. I always take the time to look at the gave markers and wonder what it was like for the people who are there. There have been some very interesting cemeteries that I have seen. Some are in the middle of city and yet have not been kept up at all… there was one that all the markers have the same death year. That was interesting. Another that had a famous family that lived near there and was interned at the cemetery. So, you can see that it does have some interest for people. I think that there are lots of places in a grave yard that would be well away from the sites… hope that helps…

 

Shastablue2

[+mfamilee]

We really enjoy finding & hiding caches in/near cemeteries. We have now combined caching with my other hobby of fulfilling photo requests of gravestones for people on a memorial website. Our jr. explorer loves walking around trying to find the last name of the person we are looking for. She also enjoys reading all the different epitaphs. We don't see cemeteries as a dreary, depressing place at all. Remember, children are greatly influenced by their parents. Please don't let them grow up with the impression that cemeteries are only about death... they represent the cycle of life and our history. After all, where would we be without our ancestors?

[+LaxRef93]

Besides geocaching, one of my other hobbies is genealogy, so in my quest to document my ancestry I can't tell you how many cemeteries I have visited in my lifetime (probably hundreds). My wife and daughter (who is 9 years old now) have joined me every step of the way. We have taught my daughter how to show the proper respect in walking through a cemetery (i.e. not jumping all over the stones, running all over the place, etc.). She loves to look at the stones, help me find the ancestors I'm looking for (or the cache clues!), and learn about the history of the area. I can't say that all her friends in her class have that experience, but I for one am glad that she does!

 

As others have said, if that is something that doesn't interest you, then filter the searches to exclude them.

[+CanDMan47]

My 11 year old daughter likes cemetery caches the most. So much in fact she chose a cemetery for her first hide. I have taught her to be respectful around the graves, and of anybody that comes in to visit a deceased loved one. If someone comes in to a cemetery while we are there, and we are in anyway within their consciousnesses, we leave the area, or the cemetery all together.

Everybody, I guess, has a different belief when it comes to cemeteries. Mine is, like anywhere else, if you are respectful to other peoples property, and you have a right to be there, then there is no problem.

I have been trying to figure out the best way to put this without sounding crass, or turning it to a religious debate, but I can't come up with anything better than: if you believe the dead are just that, dead, then they won't care you are in the cemetery. If you believe the dead are still with us and watch over us, I would imagine they still wouldn't care you are in the cemetery if you are being respectful and not disturbing any graves or markers. Again, please don't read that as an offensive statement, I just can't come up with better words for it.

As for me and my daughter, we will keep finding caches in cemeteries as long as hiders hide them appropriately.

[+Surferjo]

I have no problems with caching in a cemetery.

 

According to the NY Cache Admin, “Caches have to me a minimum of 20 feet from any gravestone”.

 

I know this because I tried to place a cache in the hollow of an old creepy looking tree in a public cemetery near where I live.

 

I have found caches in other cemeteries that were way closer than 20 feet. I assume they were there before the rule was in place and got grand fathered.

[+Team Cotati]

The Team really enjoys visiting cemeteries. We often do that when traveling to a new area.

[+CanDMan47]

“Caches have to me a minimum of 20 feet from any gravestone”.

 

I definitely have not found that to be the case here in Southwest Michigan, though many times I wish it was.

[+coleminers]

a similar thread has been circulating for the past several months, so I thought I would cut-and-paste the reply I posted on there several weeks ago. I definitely do not believe cemeteries are places to be feared, and they are just as friendly for the kids as they are for us older folks...as opposed to the premise of the thread originator Dilmar...I believe most could view cemeteries as an opportunity to celebrate life and honor those who passed before; as we hope future generations may honor and remember us...

 

as to whether you cache them or not, I believe that is a matter of personal preference as long as the caches are done respectfully...

 

I find cemeteries in general to be fascinating, peaceful, often beautiful locations; filled with history, encounters with nature, and opportunities for remembrance. For that reason, they are often ideal places for cache visitors as geocachers in general appreciate all these qualities that drew them to the hobby initially.

I have several cache hides in cemeteries...I find older cemeteries highlight local history and allow us to reflect (sometimes rather profoundly) on all those that have passed this way before. I place my hides with my notes highlighting the history of the area, and reminders to cache only during daylight hours, and respect for the surroundings (which is probably unneccessary as our local cachers--and cachers in general--are among the most respectful stewards of the outdoors).

 

Practically speaking...I avoid all headstones and have placed hides in tree nooks and holes (not shrubs which are prone to geofatigue from repeated seeking). Obviously, I would not seek one, and have left many unfound, if there are services or nearby grieving visitors.

 

*To a more specific example...recently I submitted a new hide for approval...It was directly alongside the cemetery drive, 5 feet up the side of a very large and old deciduous tree in a hollow burl. The nearest stone was small ankle high ancient/unreadable and not proximal to the tree, probably 4 or 5 feet away.

The cache was disapproved/archived by our Ohio reviewer secondary to concerns about gravesite proximity..... OK.

 

*Now, yesterday, I travel to another location in Ohio, and find a cache, approved by the same reviewer, surprisingly tucked in the flower vase attached to the gravemarker. That makes me very uncomfortable. The reviewer/cache owner will say that it is allowable because the gravemarker was the family member of the hider...however, my concern with this, is if you consider grave accoutrements to be "in-bounds"; the future cache seeker will naturally potentially find themselves looking through objects of nearby gravemakers which are not family members. This kind of hide will make cemetery placements problematic and possibly forbidden in the future, and affect the reputation of our hobby.

 

And, if cache review is to serve its purpose, consistency must be the watchword.

 

The cache reviewer is a moderator on these forums, and his perspective would be appreciated as well.

 

Opinions?

Edited September 7, 2009 by coleminers

[+whistler & co.]

I still don't get it how can it be family friendly. How death in particular is friendly? I understand that we all die one day but still. Isn't it depressing to even talk about it? And kids should not learn about death before they start a life. They don't even know what life is and your teaching them about death already? Why would anybody take a kid to a cemetery unless it’s a family related issue?

 

Is it better for a child's first introduction to the concept of death and dying to be in the abstract ("We are visiting a cemtery, a place where the bodies of people who have died are buried."), or for him to be slammed with the death of a favorite pet, a classmate, a grandparent, a sibling, or a parent? Death is inescapable and unavoidable. Fearing it, avoiding it, or pretending it doesn't exist will not keep it from touching your children's lives at some point. Caching (or jogging or picnicking or birdwatching or taking photos, etc.) in a cemtery is not disrespectful to the dead, nor to to the living, unless you are interfering with someone's desire to mourn or pray in solitude. I think a cemetery is a sadder place when it's NOT being used by the living, because as long as there are people visiting, the dead are not yet forgotten.

[+Kit Fox]

I don't like them, and it has nothing to do with being scared of dying. I think they are mostly disrespectful.

 

Here is a link to 13 previous cemetary discussions.

[+tozainamboku]

According to the NY Cache Admin, “Caches have to me a minimum of 20 feet from any gravestone”.

This looks like another unpublished or personal guideline. If this is a Groundspeak policy it should be stated. If it was a requests from specific cemeteries in NY Cache Admin's area, this should be clarified.

 

The general consensus when these threads come up, is that caches should be hidden in sections of the cemetery away from the graves. Certainly caches in cemeteries need to show respect for mourners who come to visit the graves of love ones. But what would happen if you had a geocacher that asked that a cache be placed in their tombstone? What happens where a wealthy family owns a large plot surrounding a monument or mausoleum? Perhaps they would not appreciate a cache hidden in a bush or tree on their plot but 20 ft from the graves.

 

We live in a country with many different traditions. And we have many different kinds of cemeteries. Some are small and crowded with graves. Others often have areas where there are no graves. Sometimes a fountain or a sculpture is there. Sometimes there may even be picnic tables. Sometimes the small crowded cemeteries are old and historic. No new burial have taken place in years. The only visitors are history buffs who wander among the graves looking for an ancestor of just finding the grave of famous person. I like caches where you get some information from a cemetery and then find the cache hidden elsewhere. I feel uncomfortable searching for a physical cache in a cemetery and can't really see the point in hiding a cache on the cemetery ground. However, I can understand that other traditions may find this acceptable when done with respect.

[+gelfling6]

adding, plain and simple, Be courteous, and respectful!

 

If the cache involves needing to find a grave stone, for a clue, be respectful to the family of the grave.. Some I've done, the stone was heavily deteriorated from age & the elements.. It required reading the dates of the stone, to obtain the coordinates.. I took a piece of paper, and carefully pressed against the date, so it would outline on the paper.. "Charcoal tracing" is used by many who do ancestry research, so the practice is accepted. But, as I said, Be respectful! And, if you're muggle paranoid, You'll look like you're doing ancestry research. (yes, some do actually log a location of the grave too.) But, along with respect, Also be careful with the stones! some, are old and brittle.. The slightest pressure could break the stone in half.

 

As for the comment of the cache being kid friendly, this is a gray zone.. It teaches the child, that yes, Life has a limit. (sorry to the video game addicts who think it has a reset button.) that, eventually this is the final place for all.. But, keep the younger ones in check! Remember my remark about the brittle stones? A running child, has no sense of where they're running, till it's "WHAM! THUNK! uh-oh.."... If you have overly active (I hate the word Hyper) kids, this is NOT the type of cache to be doing. (especially if they get the idea of a grave stone as a place to climb!)

 

Sorry to say, Death is the end of life.. there's no escaping it.. Instilling fear of graveyards, is something Hollywood loves to inflict.. If you're afraid, you'll never go to a friend's funeral. and they deserve better than that.

 

Stephen (gelfling6)

[+Col. Flagg]

What better way to teach your children how to respect cemeteries than to take them caching in a cemetery.

[+AirborneSurveyor]

This is my log entry from (GCKQY3) Ghoulish Goods at Round Hill

 

July 10, 2005 by AirborneSurveyor (212 found)

Nice Cache. Did this one and Indiana Spirit Quest #211. My wife and I were surprised by how many veterans were buried here. We collected several American flags that people just tossed on the ground at the Indians game on the 4th of July on our way out of the ballpark. We still had them in the Jeep and decide to place one on each grave of a veteran that did not have a flag. We quickly ran out of flags.

TN left U.S. Army keychain. TFTC

 

I have been doing that ever since then when I do cemetery caches.

[+Team Cotati]

What better way to teach your children how to respect cemeteries than to take them caching in a cemetery.

 

Don't know if it was "better" or not, but somehow my parents managed to teach my brother and I how to respect cemeteries before the game of geocaching was invented. Waaaaayyyy before it was invented. Odd thing, back then it was not viewed as anything special, to respect cemeteries was just the expected. No gold stars were awarded for doing what was honorable and right.

 

The reward was in the experience and in the learning.

[Mr.Yuck]

According to the NY Cache Admin, “Caches have to me a minimum of 20 feet from any gravestone”.

This looks like another unpublished or personal guideline. If this is a Groundspeak policy it should be stated. If it was a requests from specific cemeteries in NY Cache Admin's area, this should be clarified.

 

 

Considering no cemetery caches were being published in NY without proof of explicit permission for a couple of years when it was never required, this does not surprise me, I'm afraid.

[+coleminers]

just found a cemetery cache hide today...this one was placed respectfully in a cemetery nearby a Wyandotte Indian mission church erected in 1824. It was probably within 4-6 feet of the nearest marked grave. It was clipped inside an arborvitae bush. The structure is on the National Register of Historic Places. Clearly, applying such a location with just such a designation not only invites respectful visitation, but honors it by one's visit. I think most cemetery caches could be viewed in the very same way. Done with respect...away from grave markers, they offer a potential for honoring the heritage of our country and ancestors. My concern is that if the review and approval process is not somewhat uniform about this, less than ideal and respectful hides will be approved. One such potentially "disrespectful" hide was referred to in my previous post on this thread.

[+Teamcameron52]

From a log I just posted:

 

My wife was reluctant to attend a funeral service in this cemetary, so she started weighing the pros and cons of attending it vs. going to work. One of the items on her "pro" list was that there was a cache in the graveyard. Well, the pros outweighed the cons, my wife found the cache immediately following the service, and now we have a funny story about her geocaching at a funeral wearing a black dress and two inch heels. I hope people geocache at my funeral. Maybe someone will make it an event cache! SL. TFTC!

[+Unkle Fester]

We've cached in cemeteries and hidden in them too.

 

It's a matter of respect. I do not let my kids run willy nilly through them, but show them to walk between and never on a headstone, to look at the dates and find the interesting stones.

 

Until about WWII, families and communities used to gather and have picnics in cemeteries. Yes Virginia, they used to be family destinations.

 

By bringing the kids here, it lets them formulate questions about death and dying, helping them prepare for the day a pet or relative dies. It helps them understand.

 

Now, if you shield your kids from death, what happens when a friend or close relative dies? a pet? Do they "run off to the circus"?

 

If you never expose them to things, nothing will ever happen to them. If you never let anything happen to them, then nothing will ever happen to them. That leaves them woefully unprepared for life.

 

Just My Opinion.

[+gravechaser]

One must also consider if this is a game or not. Personally I do not consider this a game. It is a hobby that I share with our children. They know how to behave in a cemetery mainly because we teach manners here at home. One of our local cemeteries is often used in photo-scavenger-hunts just due to the history of it and the local well-known people buried there. All that entails is getting a digital shot of a team member standing next to or behind the target tombstone/crypt.

 

Our kids only run in one particular cemetery behind an active Church. We are going to be buried there. In this Churchs records going back 100+ years notations have been made regarding events and dinners held there that mention the organized children's games in the cemetery. To this day the Church members of that particular Church consider that the informal playground for tag and hide-n-seek. I know several people that find the idea of kids playing in a cemetery offensive. I'm not one. We're trying to figure out how to make a stone slide out of our future headstone but I digress.

 

If you personally find a cache in a cemetery distasteful then simply drive on and ignore it. Just please don't judge those of us who enjoy finding them. And, yes, I think that the caches should be a polite distance away from the headstones.

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't have a problem playing my game in a cemetery. Frankly I feel the long term storage of preserved human remains in a box that costs more than a car is more disrespectful to the land and nature than my geocaching in a cemetery.

 

It's out of courtesy that I place caches away from the graves. If a cache was listed right on top of the tombstone I would hunt it without pause.

 

My grave-site caches are usually located just past the pile of faded fake flowers piled irreverently on the border of the cemetery. If you can ignore the lack of respect in that clearly visable pile of trash then hunting the cache shouldn't bother you.

 

Edited September 9, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+Growf]

I can't add much to what has already been said, other than I agree that a cemetery is a fine place for a cache. The first cache I found by myself was a cemetery cache (GC1EMWN), and the first cache I placed (GC1Y5WV) is in a cemetery where one of my GGG-Grandfathers is buried, and many of the other individuals there are related -- one of them even helps you if you need to use the clue.

[+Winstonsmom]

What better way to teach your children how to respect cemeteries than to take them caching in a cemetery.

 

I second Col Flagg and wish I had said it first. Kudos Col Flagg

[+Winstonsmom]

In Texas, every cemetery I have visited while caching has had a historic marker that tells the story of the pioneers and their legacy that connects the past to the present and reminds us that we have a responsibility to do something to help the future generations.

[+wimseyguy]

If playing games, or doing something recreational in a cemetery is disrespectful then how do you explain away or feel about the various haunted cemetery tours? These are obviously approved by the governing bodies (sic) of those historic properties. Seems that they don't have any issues with these overtly commercial tours of the cemeteries, often after dark.

Gettysburg is led by a former park ranger.

Galveston.

Chicago.

Dartmouth CA

and dozens more.

[+Geo-Tiki]

TripCyclone ; couldnt have put it any better!!!!

[+Castle Mischief]

If playing games, or doing something recreational in a cemetery is disrespectful then how do you explain away or feel about the various haunted cemetery tours? These are obviously approved by the governing bodies (sic) of those historic properties. Seems that they don't have any issues with these overtly commercial tours of the cemeteries, often after dark.

Gettysburg is led by a former park ranger.

Galveston.

Chicago.

Dartmouth CA

and dozens more.

 

Heck, we have an Event planned in Huntsville for 10/30, that was approved by the city, right next to our largest historical cemetery. There are also tours and reenactments in this same cemetery.

[+Renegade Knight]

Is it ok to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Yes. Generally you would avoid the immediate vicinity of a grave. Most cemetaries have larger grounds.

Would you feel comfortable digging around the cemetery for cache?

No, hence the general concencus to keep caches away from graves and on the larger grounds.

Is it really Kid Friendly?

That depends on what you are really asking. A cemetary is indifferent when it comes to kid friendly. They just are. I think the real answer here is more of the attitude and concerns you bring with you.

Why would you hide a cache at the cemetery?

Same reason you would hide a cache anywhere else. Because you find the location compelling for some reason that others may or may not understand.

Is it family friendly to hide a cache at the cemetery?

Familes are buried there. However your answer is similar to the kid friendly question.

 

Personally I find them compelling in that they remind us of our final destination. We all die. We all wonder about it. I also find them serene and peaceful. I enjoy the feeling of calm like stepping outside the rat race into a place where none of that matters and you can just be. I have no problem with a cache in a cemetary. I have more problem with artifically restrictive rules on the what, why, when, where, and how a family can pay their respects.