Getting Your Coin Made

[+Jackalgirl]

Good morning, everyone --

 

I wrote a typically long post in another thread talking about, in a general way, coins and their features and how that affects price, plus a rough estimate of what standard coins usually cost, where "standard" means "bronze-core die struck plated round coin with no cutouts".

 

Unfortunately, another portion of the OP's question asked about who the best vendors are, which of course caused the thread to get shut down (and rightly so: if people start making specific suggestions, it turns into an advertising thread).

 

However, Ashallond asked a good question:

 

wait, you can try to design a coin without having to put down a big down payment and/or paying for them yourselves?

 

even if the coin sale completely flops?

 

The answer is: yes. The trick is that you have to find a vendor/manufacturer who's willing to use your design. Most of the vendors have a fairly good sense of what will sell and what won't, so they'll pass on your design if they think it's won't be successful. If they like your design enough to produce it, chances are it'll do decently enough that they'll (and you'll) be okay.

 

So again, the best advice I can give to someone who's new to geocaching and/or coins and who wants to produce a coin (and wants it to be trackable) is to start looking at the websites of the vendors listed in the pinned thread. Find the websites whose example coins speak to you the most. Many of them have information for their "designer partnership program" listed on their site, and others will let you know if you ask (and they do it). They might not call it "designer partnership program", but the idea is the same: they will pay you in x coins for a production of y coins that they sell, where "x" and "y" are determined by the vendor/manufacturer, and most will allow you to specify a special unique plating for your set of coins (the Artist's Edition).

 

It's a really good way to get your foot in the door, especially given that most customers here are very distrustful of the pre-sale program (where people pay you first, and you use that money to make the coins) except when being held by vendors with proven track records.

[avroair]

I prefer this to strangers jumping into the forums to pre-sell something that is only mint artwork.

[Odyssey Voyager]

this comment and question may also be related to this topic. its been some time between designs for me, so i fall behind on news and policies regarding geocoins. i recently read the pinned thread concerning Groundspeak coin policy revisions of 3/2009. am i correct in assuming that the amounts went from 250 geocoins to 50 geocoins as the minimum amount needed for tracking numbers, custom icon, and custom name?! if this is now the case, does anyone know if geocoin manufacturers also now offer these same minimum numbers to have a geocoin produced? it seems to me that the previous 250 minimum cost to produce a geocoin was one of the reasons many people could not afford to have one made, but now that the number is down to only 50, a nice geocoin run of 50 pieces can be made for under $500.00. can anyone with more experience, elaborate and shed more light on this relatively new policy? thanks.

 

~odyssey voyager~

 

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[+Jackalgirl]

I prefer this to strangers jumping into the forums to pre-sell something that is only mint artwork.

 

That's one of the things that happens (or, worse, someone might post their own artwork, which isn't even mint art), and could be avoided through a little homework. And it ends up being pretty stressful for everyone -- the regulars are indignant at what they perceive might be an opportunist trying to get money (but might not), and the new sellers are taken aback by the hostility that results.

 

The other thing you'll occasionally see is a new person coming on and saying "here's my new coin, I'm selling it for $35 each!" (or some other really high number.) Again, cue the hostility, drama and angst.

 

If you're new to the market, it's tempting to see what coins are going for on, say, eBay, and think, My goodness! People will pay out the nose for a coin! Get me in on that action! I'm going to jump in with both feet!

 

My advice: don't. Understand that the stuff on eBay is usually sold out, so the prices are not realistic for new coins or new vendors. Stick around a while and see what coins sell for when they're first offered. Learn a bit about what it takes to make a coin and about the customers' expectations. Find out how other vendors have fallen flat on their faces, and why.

 

Any new business should, in theory, have a marketing plan that looks into all of this. A marketing plan should spell out, in exhaustive detail, the answers to the following questions:

 

o Study your market. Who are your customers? What are their expectations of the product and of you, as a vendor?

o Study the typical product. What's being made, what do people really seem to respond to? What is the typical cost of the coins of the same size/type as the one(s) you'd like to make?

o Study the manufacturing process. How much will it cost you to make a run of coins (die fees, per-piece costs, feature costs, etc ). What's the minimum number of pieces required by the vendor or mint? This is on top of standard Groundspeak fees ($1.50 per tracking code, 50 minimum codes, $150 for unique icon, at last update).

o What about overhead costs? By this I mean: incidentals like the cost of shipping, the cost of packing materials, the cost of gas to get to & from the post office (if applicable), the cost of printer paper, the cost of domain and website hosting.

o Don't forget to factor in your own time as an overhead cost: as a responsible vendor, you'll need to print out a receipt and shipping label for each sale, as well as doing the picking and packing. Remember that you'll also need to keep in constant communication with your customers through emails, newsletters, posts here, etc. That's going to eat up a bunch of your time. If you're paying someone else to do this for you, that person's salary or wage should be included in your overhead cost.

o You'll lose a small percentage of each sale to the credit card companies and/or PayPal. Know how much this will be. If you fail to factor this into your overhead cost, your profit estimates will be off.

o Sales tax / VAT, etc. Does this apply to you? Please don't go into the business of taking people's money without looking at the laws regarding vendors in your locale.

o Now, and only now, get a sense of how much profit you're likely to make with each sale. Your net take is going to be your gross take: x times (price per coin + shipping per coin), where x is the number of coins you anticipate to sell -- and then subtract your total costs (minting costs + Groundspeak costs + shipping costs + other overhead costs).

o As a new vendor, assume that you'll either have to sell the coins that you have already had made (that is, you have to have them in stock and ready to ship), or do a reservation (in which people send in a pledge to buy, but no actual money, so that you have a rough idea of how many coins to order). This means you will need to project what kind of startup money you're going to need to have, which is enough money to do your initial run of coins (total costs, as above, for your initial design). If you are new, do not even think about a pre-sale. Trust me on this.

 

Does it look daunting? Oh yes. And so it should. You're potentially getting into the business of selling runs of coins that may cost anywhere from $400 to $1200 or so (or more!) each per run, depending on the mint/vendor and the coin, its size, and other features. Customers here in the Forums have been burned by irresponsible vendors on a number of occasions and know how to demand refunds, pursue you through the Better Business Bureau, through the Postal Service for mail fraud, and through local law enforcement.

 

Don't let this scare you. Just know what you're getting into, and what the consequences are if you run into trouble (and what you can or may need to do if that happens). Please, please, please, for the love of Ed, do this first before trying to start up a business.

 

That's why I so heartily recommend that people get in on the "designer partnership programs" (or whatever the vendors call them) offered by so many vendors. THEY do all the sales, and you only have to worry about selling a small number of Artist's Editions. Doing so will give you an understanding of the actual requirements for selling coins, both in terms of materials and (most importantly) your time and effort.

 

If you're just planning to run one sale -- such as a fund raiser for your local (insert favorite cause here), that's cool. At minimum, though, you'll need to look at the steps, above, to figure out how many to make, how much to charge, and what kind of profit to expect after all of the (hard) work is done.

[+Jackalgirl]

this comment and question may also be related to this topic. its been some time between designs for me, so i fall behind on news and policies regarding geocoins. i recently read the pinned thread concerning Groundspeak coin policy revisions of 3/2009. am i correct in assuming that the amounts went from 250 geocoins to 50 geocoins as the minimum amount needed for tracking numbers, custom icon, and custom name?! if this is now the case, does anyone know if geocoin manufacturers also now offer these same minimum numbers to have a geocoin produced? it seems to me that the previous 250 minimum cost to produce a geocoin was one of the reasons many people could not afford to have one made, but now that the number is down to only 50, a nice geocoin run of 50 pieces can be made for under $500.00. can anyone with more experience, elaborate and shed more light on this relatively new policy? thanks.

 

~odyssey voyager~

 

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Howdy! Yes, that's all true: minimum # of codes is 50, the minimum number for a unique icon is 50, though the icon still costs $150. (Details here.)

 

Can't answer your minimum order question. I imagine there are mints who'd be happy to process a small order like that -- though their per-piece cost is probably going to be substantially higher, I'm guessing. Hopefully one of the actual vendors will chime in here and provide more info.

[Odyssey Voyager]

 

Any new business should, in theory, have a marketing plan that looks into all of this. A marketing plan should spell out, in exhaustive detail, the answers to the following questions...

 

 

all very true comments. i see so many new vendors making such costly mistakes, that a little homework and research would have easily solved. of course, we all learn to either sink or swim. hopefully, the sport of geocaching and the hobby of geocoin collecting and design will continue to grow.

 

~odyssey voyager~

 

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Edited September 4, 2009 by Odyssey Voyager

[+AirborneSurveyor]

I recently had 100 coins made; I could have gone with just 50 with a few different venders. But the cost of going with 100 was not much more then going with 50. I sent an e-mail to every vender on this page click on the Geocoin Manufactures & Resellers tab, and asked them for a quote. It helps to send your artwork and tell them a little about what you are looking for. Some were very helpful others seemed like they could not be bothered. I almost went with one vender and we were sending e-mail back and forth with revisions to my artwork, then they simply stopped responding. The one that did win the bid to make my coin did a fantastic job and I could not be happier with how the coin turned out. The process took about a month and a half from first e-mail sent to final approval to send the coin to the factory for production.

[Odyssey Voyager]

 

I recently had 100 coins made; I could have gone with just 50 with a few different venders. But the cost of going with 100 was not much more then going with 50.

 

 

that's cool. good to know that only 50 or 100 geocoins is an option now. i take it your geocoins are all trackable and also have a unique icon?

 

so, how do other forum members here feel about the lowered minimum requirement? better for the geocoin collecting and design hobby, or worse? just curious.

 

~odyssey voyager~

 

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[+AirborneSurveyor]

 

I recently had 100 coins made; I could have gone with just 50 with a few different venders. But the cost of going with 100 was not much more then going with 50.

 

 

that's cool. good to know that only 50 or 100 geocoins is an option now. i take it your geocoins are all trackable and also have a unique icon?

 

All are trackable but I did not go with the unique icon. This was a Military Team Coin/Geocoin. 16 coins for the team. 20 reserved for future care package for deployed goeocahers (I recived a care package of 5 geocoins myself and wanted to help out with the next care package that gets put togather), 10 to cache with, 10 to trade for other military geocoins. A number were sent to close friends. I have sen't an e-mail to every cache owner that placed a cache in Afghanistan, Kuwait and Kyrgyzstan afther I found their cache as a thank you for placing a cache for other deployed geocahers to send me their mailing address and I would mail them one of my geocoins. I have very few coins that are not earmarked to someone now. None of them were or are for sale.

[Odyssey Voyager]

 

I recently had 100 coins made; I could have gone with just 50 with a few different venders. But the cost of going with 100 was not much more then going with 50.

 

 

that's cool. good to know that only 50 or 100 geocoins is an option now. i take it your geocoins are all trackable and also have a unique icon?

 

 

All are trackable but I did not go with the unique icon. This was a Military Team Coin/Geocoin. 16 coins for the team. 20 reserved for future care package for deployed goeocahers (I recived a care package of 5 geocoins myself and wanted to help out with the next care package that gets put togather), 10 to cache with, 10 to trade for other military geocoins. A number were sent to close friends. I have sen't an e-mail to every cache owner that placed a cache in Afghanistan, Kuwait and Kyrgyzstan afther I found their cache as a thank you for placing a cache for other deployed geocahers to send me their mailing address and I would mail them one of my geocoins. I have very few coins that are not earmarked to someone now. None of them were or are for sale.

 

 

i saw the pictures of your geocoin, good job. it looks great! be safe out there and thank you for your service.

 

~odyssey voyager~

 

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Edited September 4, 2009 by Odyssey Voyager

[+ECplus3]

 

I recently had 100 coins made; I could have gone with just 50 with a few different venders. But the cost of going with 100 was not much more then going with 50.

 

 

that's cool. good to know that only 50 or 100 geocoins is an option now. i take it your geocoins are all trackable and also have a unique icon?

 

 

All are trackable but I did not go with the unique icon. This was a Military Team Coin/Geocoin. 16 coins for the team. 20 reserved for future care package for deployed goeocahers (I recived a care package of 5 geocoins myself and wanted to help out with the next care package that gets put togather), 10 to cache with, 10 to trade for other military geocoins. A number were sent to close friends. I have sen't an e-mail to every cache owner that placed a cache in Afghanistan, Kuwait and Kyrgyzstan afther I found their cache as a thank you for placing a cache for other deployed geocahers to send me their mailing address and I would mail them one of my geocoins. I have very few coins that are not earmarked to someone now. None of them were or are for sale.

 

 

i saw the pictures of your geocoin, good job. it looks great! be safe out there and thank you for your service.

 

~odyssey voyager~

 

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Wow! I feel honoured that I was one of the trades! I didn't realize that there were that few available.

 

But back to the topic at hand... I dealt directly with Bonjet for my personal coin and their minimum was 100 coins.

 

However, the first coin I ever had made was through dorkfish, and her mint didn't have a minimum quantity on number of coins ordered as long as the dollar value for the order was greater than $20. This, of course, doesn't include the die fees, sample fees, or shipping.

[+Zelanzy]

My thoughts, being a new producer and all.

 

My first coin was through a US vendor that worked with the mint for me. While I certainly had a great experience, I found working directly with the mint slightly advantageous on my 2nd coin. And that is because I was able to stay up late and trade 2-5 emails with my Chinese rep in succession. I was not able to do that when working with a US middle company. I could just relay 1 message, which was sent to China and I'd hear back the next day.

 

But I certainly did get some good advice from the US company, and for my first coin that alone was PRICELESS! Also, for those curious, their markup is not as much as I thought it would be, so for new coin people I highly recommend the folks on the list.

 

Oh and working with the mint directly will drive you NUTS the first time! I tried so hard to get one tiny little thing done. It took me ~1 week to figure out how to tell it to them in the way that is understandable after translation. But we eventualy figured it out . If you are curious, I was simply trying to get text stamped DOWN into metal and IHE filled. This was a bit different than how they commonly get text on a coin. I was offered laser engrave, screen print, raise text, move text, edge stamp text, edge engrave text. I simply had to increase the size of the text!

 

Also, US companies accept credit cards, which gives you HUGE recovery rights if something messes up. China mints prefer money to be wired, if a problem arose I'm guessing it would be difficult to collect. But I have no experience here, so far so good for me!

[Odyssey Voyager]

 

While I certainly had a great experience, I found working directly with the mint slightly advantageous on my 2nd coin.

 

 

kudos for taking the bull by the horns, and eliminating the middleman! you've got more guts than i do...lol...producing a coin can be very frustrating, and i can only imagine what it would be like if i tried to communicate in chinese! you have pointed out the pro's and con's quite nicely. since i only create a project once every 2 years or so, i'm better off leaving most of the mint business to the experts. i really don't mind paying a little more for their expertise and advice. however, you seem to have several projects in the works, and having more control is to your benefit. i wish you continued success!

 

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[Odyssey Voyager]

i'd like to ask for an opinion from geocoin designers here, since this thread seems appropiate.

 

question:

 

if you were going to produce a 2nd run of, say 100 geocoins, in new and different colors or finish, would you use the new geocoin policy (mentioned in previous replies) to create a new or altered official name, and new or altered official icon? or would you simply go with the original name and icon? and, does the revised geocoin policy even apply to 2nd run or new versions? what are your comments, concerns, or suggestions? thanks for the feedback!

 

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[+ECplus3]

i'd like to ask for an opinion from geocoin designers here, since this thread seems appropiate.

 

question:

 

if you were going to produce a 2nd run of, say 100 geocoins, in new and different colors or finish, would you use the new geocoin policy (mentioned in previous replies) to create a new or altered official name, and new or altered official icon? or would you simply go with the original name and icon? and, does the revised geocoin policy even apply to 2nd run or new versions? what are your comments, concerns, or suggestions? thanks for the feedback!

 

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I'm quite certain that if you paid your $150 per, Groundspeak will sell you as many icons as you want

As long as there were 50 tracking numbers associated with each icon, you could probably have a different icon for each edition of the SAME run.