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which gps do you recomend


mrh59
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I know this question has been asked countless times but here it goes again. I am a new comer to geocaching and I love it. I have an old unreliable lowrance gps. I cant even enter coordinates. I would like to buy a new unit but like most people these days my budget is limited. But I dont want to spend the money and later find out I did'nt get what I wanted. I have looked at the Garmin etrex and venture which are in my price range but I am not sure of there capability. Any suggestion are appreciated.

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My personal fave after several options have been tried and experienced with fellow cachers is the hand-held Garmin GPSmap 60-series. You just gotta have the mapping (turn-by-turn) and windshield mount to really enjoy it's functionality.

 

I like the 60Cx best, as it does not have the electronic compass that was only a source of problems needing to be calibrated.

Edited by GRANPA ALEX
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If you happen to need a new cell phone get all you need for phone and GPS with the Blackberry Curve or something like it.

 

I moved from a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx to a Blackberry Curve 8310 and the phone is just as good for geocaching as the 60CSx was.

 

I think it was $89. with a 2-year contract renewal with AT&T and I needed the unlimited data plan anyway, so that makes it a very powerful GPS with all the whistles and bells for very little investment.

 

If you just want a GPS consider the Garmin GPSmap 60CSx, even a used on from eBay. I've had 7 dedicated GPS for caching and that was by far the best.

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OK, I can guarantee you that the majority of the recommendations you get will be for Garmin GPSr's. However, let me suggest a different brand. I would very strongly suggest you at least read up on the Delorme PN series GPSr's. Of the 2 most recommended Garmin models that are not paperless units they will both cost you more than the Delorme PN-30 which is currently on sale for $200. That's about what a Garmin eTrex Vista HCx will cost you.

 

So you ask why consider a Delorme PN-30 instead. Well if you buy the Vista HCx all that comes with it is an almost useless base map. Don't worry though Garmin will sell you some Topo maps for about $100. Then they'll also be happy to sell you their streets maps for say another $100 so now your up around a $400 commitment to them. Now lets say you buy a Delorme PN-30 and with it you get all of these maps for FREE and it can be bought at REI.com right now for only $200. The FREE maps you get with a Delorme PN-30 are the US Topo maps, the US street maps so that your unit can route you turn by turn to the cache and then as the crow flies for the final few feet, you'll get the Canadian street maps and finally you'll get the Mexican street maps. Keep in mind that all those maps from Delorme are included for FREE so you're not going to be needing to go out and buy $200 worth of maps from Garmin like if you bought Garmins Vista HCx or 60 CSx.

 

Don't stop reading yet though or you'll miss out on the best part. Neither of the ever so popular Garmins I mention above will give you paperless caching. However with the Delorme PN-30 you will have paperless caching right out of the box. In case you're not familar with paperless caching it's where on your GPSr you have the entire cache page that you see when you look at a cache description on gc.com . The only parts you won't see are the pictures and graphics. While this may not sound important now trust me you'll want it later and you'll take a loss selling a your Garmin to upgrade to a paperless unit.

 

Another thing nobody likes to mention is that the Garmin units have some real problems mechanically. Especially the eTrex series. The waterproofing rubber banding that goes around the outer edge keeps falling off. I bought an eTrex Vista HCx this Spring and in less than 4 months the rubber banding was falling off and I had to send it back for repairs. As soon as I got it back I sold it and bought a Delorme PN-40 and I love it and I'm sure you would too.

 

If you do like I did and buy a Garmin because that's what everybody does you'll regret it. If you want to check to see if I'm just making things up continue reading here in the Technology forum here on Groundspeak and compare how many threads you see complaining of broken or malfunctioning Garmins and how many you see for Delorme PN series GPSr's that are broken or malfunctioning. The numbers don't lie! The vocal majority that blindly buy Garmins to be part of the in crowd never seem to tell new folks about the problems people have with Garmins.

 

If you want more information on the Delorme PN series there are several threads here in the Technology forum where those that are for Delormes and those that are against them debate quite intensely. Go check them out and read for yourself and at least that way when you buy you will be making an informed decision and not just blindly following the crowd.

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but if you have questions for me about my experiences with Garmin and Delorme feel free to click on my screen name and then click the link to send me an E-Mail. Good luck with your upcoming purchase! :rolleyes:

Edited by Michigan Cacheman
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My vote is for the Magellan Triton 400 or 500 (if you want the 3 axis compass). I have the 500 and the 1500 and absolutely love them. Magellan has worked out all the bugs (finally) and the Triton is now a rock solid unit.

 

Its almost fully paperless (no logs) but that’s not a big deal for me since I use Cacheberry on my Blackberry, which can hold an unlimited about of caches BTW, very cool.

 

The Tritons are very easy to use since they don’t have a lot of extra screens that some other GPS’r have. Pretty basic, no non-sense units.

 

The computer software is called VantagePoint and its pretty much drag and drop. I download a 500-cache pocket query, drag it into the VantagePoint window and click the sync button. It doesn’t get any easier than that.

 

The 500 and the 400 are pretty much the same with the exception of the 3-axis Electronic Compass and Barometer (both of which I have yet to use but some Cacher’s swear by it.)

 

Both of these units will hold 2000 caches BTW.

 

Good Luck with whatever you decide.

 

Triton 500

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OK, I can guarantee you that .....blah blah blah.......Good luck with your upcoming purchase! :rolleyes:

YIKES!!

 

I am glad you like your DeLorme. I'm sorry you didn't like your Garmin.

 

I own 10 Garmin GPSrs bought over the past 8 years. Zero returns. Zero rubber seals coming off. Zero.

 

Oh - lets not forget about the FREE maps easily downloadable for the Garmin units either.

 

Just thought I'd throw that out.........

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The facts are what the facts are. A person can spend $200 or $300 on a Garmin that is not capable of paperless caching and not get any maps with it. Or if they'd like a GPSr that's completely capable of paperless caching and with LOTS of quality maps that come INCLUDED then they can buy a Delorme PN series GPSr. Why does it hurt so much to see somebody do an honest comparison. I'd just like newer people to hear both sides of the story so they know there is not only another option, but a much better option. Like I said before if you count up the number of threads here dealing with broken or malfunctioning Garmins and compare it to the number of threads dealing with broken or malfunctioning Delormes the truth becomes very obvious. I'm sorry if me pointing out to the OP that he/she has a choice is troubling to some. :rolleyes:

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If you want to check to see if I'm just making things up continue reading here in the Technology forum here on Groundspeak and compare how many threads you see complaining of broken or malfunctioning Garmins and how many you see for Delorme PN series GPSr's that are broken or malfunctioning. The numbers don't lie!...
Bad data. Numbers don't lie -- but people can find numbers to show anything they want.

 

Here's a PURELY numeric exercise: Go to Amazon.com and check the review pages for the PN-40 and any of the Garmin models you're talking about. Calculate the TOTAL number of reviews for each, and the number of 1 and 2 star reviews (unhappy customers) for each as a percentage.

 

Go to DeLorme's OWN forums* and count the number of posts for spontaneous reboots, lockups, units that won't catch a signal at all or keep losing it, units that won't get WAAS, GPSRs that had to be returns MULTIPLE times before getting one that worked, and so on.

 

Sure, numbers don't lie. But you have to look at an awful lot of them to get the whole truth.

 

---

* Of course, there's some risk in suggesting people read other sources and try to know what they're talking about. Last time I suggested someone read DeLorme's own forums about ongoing problems, he went berserk - insisted that since his DeLorme worked fine, and he hadn't read any recent problem reports on the Groundspeak forums, there weren't any problems! ... and also that I shouldn't tell him what to read because he had already made up his mind. Politely put, that's a very selective filtering of data. More honestly stated, ... well, I'm trying to watch my language lately...

Edited by lee_rimar
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....

Like I said before if you count up the number of threads here dealing with broken or malfunctioning Garmins and compare it to the number of threads dealing with broken or malfunctioning Delormes the truth becomes very obvious. I'm sorry if me pointing out to the OP that he/she has a choice is troubling to some. :rolleyes:

I know for a fact I can find 15 complaint sites about Microsoft Windows for every 1 site I find about Apple complaints.

 

However - it is important to remember that 92% of computers in the US run some version of a Microsoft OS.

 

Count away - just keep in mind how many more cachers own a Garmin than any other brand.

 

Glad your liking your DeLorme!!! Lots of potential in those units. But I still recommend the eTrex Venture HC as a fine starter unit.

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And this is what happens in these threads B)

 

OK, now you get to hear from another PN-40 owner and lover:

 

Read, then read and then read some more :D Seriously, take a look through the last 2 pages of topics here and read up on the threads for the PN-30/40, Garmin etrex, Dakota, Colorado etc... Then find some threads on paperless caching and see what each unit can and can't do. Do not rely on just the answers you get in this thread to make a decision.

 

I just purchased a few weeks ago, and I was going to get either a Venture or Vista HCx unit and I was set on them - I did some more reading and I decided to spend a little extra and get the PN-40 for true paperless in one single unit. I did it because that is WHAT WORKED FOR ME. Everyone is different and both Garmin and Delorme, as well as Magellan and the new Lowrance will all get you to the cache sight as a Geocaching unit. It's what else you would like to do with the unit that will change what is BEST FOR YOU. Do you want routing out of the box, true paperless, aerial photo, built in compass, etc...

 

You said "I dont want to spend the money and later find out I did'nt get what I wanted." We don't know what you want/need for your GPSr, but if your budget is tight and non-flexible I would agree with StarBrand the Venture is the minimum unit you should get.

 

Hang around, do a lot of reading and make the first purchase one that will last you awhile.

B)

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If you want to check to see if I'm just making things up continue reading here in the Technology forum here on Groundspeak and compare how many threads you see complaining of broken or malfunctioning Garmins and how many you see for Delorme PN series GPSr's that are broken or malfunctioning. The numbers don't lie!...
Bad data. Numbers don't lie -- but people can find numbers to show anything they want.

 

Here's a PURELY numeric exercise: Go to Amazon.com and check the review pages for the PN-40 and any of the Garmin models you're talking about. Calculate the TOTAL number of reviews for each, and the number of 1 and 2 star reviews (unhappy customers) for each as a percentage.

 

Go to DeLorme's OWN forums* and count the number of posts for spontaneous reboots, lockups, units that won't catch a signal at all or keep losing it, units that won't get WAAS, GPSRs that had to be returns MULTIPLE times before getting one that worked, and so on.

 

Sure, numbers don't lie. But you have to look at an awful lot of them to get the whole truth.

 

---

* Of course, there's some risk in suggesting people read other sources and try to know what they're talking about. Last time I suggested someone read DeLorme's own forums about ongoing problems, he went berserk - insisted that since his DeLorme worked fine, and he hadn't read any recent problem reports on the Groundspeak forums, there weren't any problems! ... and also that I shouldn't tell him what to read because he had already made up his mind. Politely put, that's a very selective filtering of data. More honestly stated, ... well, I'm trying to watch my language lately...

 

Nah, for the whole truth, you'd have to discount any and all posts that were before the updates that fixed the majority of those problems. Can you tell me how many NEW threads have been made about having to return a DeLorme multiple times, show me new threads about no signal and so on...those numbers would be much better than the numbers you've stated....I would bet! The same for any other NEW units (Garmin OR, CO etc, Lowrance, Magellan...). However, and this complaint made by MC is true, how often do you see people complain their rubber has come off?? I've seen it often, people asking how to reatach etc. This is and has been a problem for Garmin, on every Etrex model I've owned, the rubber was an issue (and I have owned a few).

 

And please Lee, don't make such dramatic posts which are truly inaccurate. You and I both know the whole story to your last comment. But you can play the sensationalistic card if it pleases you!

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OK, I can guarantee you that .....blah blah blah.......Good luck with your upcoming purchase! :D

YIKES!!

 

I am glad you like your DeLorme. I'm sorry you didn't like your Garmin.

 

I own 10 Garmin GPSrs bought over the past 8 years. Zero returns. Zero rubber seals coming off. Zero.

 

Oh - lets not forget about the FREE maps easily downloadable for the Garmin units either.

 

Just thought I'd throw that out.........

 

I'd say you were either very lucky or really good about not leaving your units in the heat for any period of time. It happens! But it's also true that the rubber is a bad problem for the Garmins, more so since that's the waterproof barrier protecting your unit!

 

Even with the free maps, routing is not available (or at least no one has yet to correct me and I've made this statement quite a number of times), so if you want routing maps, you WILL be paying for them. Other than that, the maps I used (TOPO by Ibycus I believe) weren't as impressive as I had imagined after hearing from the people touting them here (here being on the forums, not in this thread alone), YMMV.

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To the OP, the models you've mentioned are good units, but old tech. Not a bad thing since they are tried and have most (if not all) the bugs (internal) fixed and you'd be buying a stable unit. However, there's a TON of new tech out there that really make caching simple and (IMHO) much more fun. I would suggest you think about how much you want to spend, how much you want from your GPS and make an informed decision from there!

 

Is routing an option that interests you? How about paperless? Aerial imagery? Touchscreen? Good computer based mapping software? What is your budget good up to? Make a list, check out the options available and then you'll be much closer to a decision...and of course, ask as many questions as you can think of (to the point, not broad "which is better" questions)!

 

I've said it a few times, buy the best unit can afford! Don't buy cheap and then realize you want something better, this is expensive! GPS envy sux and painful in the long run! :D

 

Good luck!

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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Can you tell me how many NEW threads have been made about having to return a DeLorme multiple times, show me new threads about no signal and so on...
Roddy, I've already told you were you can read this information. Go read Amazon's review pages and looks at dates on the 1-2 star reviews. Go read DeLorme's forums and look at dates on postings regarding problems.

 

And I am not saying this to bash DeLorme. You can play the same exercise with Garmin.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that this board, full of dedicated, devoted fans of their particular units, is almost useless for getting unbiased product reviews and hardware comparisons. Having one person shout "I love Brand X" a hundred times is not the same thing as going over to Amazon and checking what the last hundred buyers of the product thought about it.

Edited by lee_rimar
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From the small sampling I did, the reviews are within a couple of percentage points of each other when taking date into consideration and the ratio drops when the unit matures. This doesn't take into account multiple returns (i.e. the Colorado as well as was noted with the PN-40). The only reason anyone can point to the DeLorme forums as a resource is because it is there. Garmin has yet to have one for their GPS systems (or did they finally recently create one that doesn't yet fully address their user base?). Otherwise you have to Google for anything on any other board for any brand.

 

It's easy to put a negative spin on any brand/model and put it out as bad thing even when it's a positive asset such as the maps you can load on the PN, but it has to be through DeLorme versus the freebies for Garmin which as noted above, is still not common knowledge nor easy knowledge to gain without this word of mouth.

 

It's not informative if both sides of the coin is not presented in the right light. The 1-2 star ratings on the Amazon.com board represents 10 out of 74 comments. I saw a Garmin brand with almost the same ratio with almost 400 comments.

 

So it begs the question: Where's the balance?

 

I'm not picking on any one post here, but folks tend to get entrenched in their perspectives and put a spin on their presentationis of "factoids". Let's not bash the brand, but rather present the brands and allow the reader to evaluate.

Edited by TotemLake
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From the small sampling I did, the reviews are within a couple of percentage points of each other when taking date into consideration and the ratio drops when the unit matures. This doesn't take into account multiple returns (i.e. the Colorado as well as was noted with the PN-40). The only reason anyone can point to the DeLorme forums as a resource is because it is there. Garmin has yet to have one for their GPS systems (or did they finally recently create one that doesn't yet fully address their user base?). Otherwise you have to Google for anything on any other board for any brand.

 

It's easy to put a negative spin on any brand/model and put it out as bad thing even when it's a positive asset such as the maps you can load on the PN, but it has to be through DeLorme versus the freebies for Garmin which as noted above, is still not common knowledge nor easy knowledge to gain without this word of mouth.

 

It's not informative if both sides of the coin is not presented in the right light. The 1-2 star ratings on the Amazon.com board represents 10 out of 74 comments. I saw a Garmin brand with almost the same ratio with almost 400 comments.

 

So it begs the question: Where's the balance?

 

I'm not picking on any one post here, but folks tend to get entrenched in their perspectives and put a spin on their presentationis of "factoids". Let's not bash the brand, but rather present the brands and allow the reader to evaluate.

 

I couldn't agree more!

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And this is what happens in these threads B)

 

OK, now you get to hear from another PN-40 owner and lover:

 

Read, then read and then read some more :D Seriously, take a look through the last 2 pages of topics here and read up on the threads for the PN-30/40, Garmin etrex, Dakota, Colorado etc... Then find some threads on paperless caching and see what each unit can and can't do. Do not rely on just the answers you get in this thread to make a decision.

 

I just purchased a few weeks ago, and I was going to get either a Venture or Vista HCx unit and I was set on them - I did some more reading and I decided to spend a little extra and get the PN-40 for true paperless in one single unit. I did it because that is WHAT WORKED FOR ME. Everyone is different and both Garmin and Delorme, as well as Magellan and the new Lowrance will all get you to the cache sight as a Geocaching unit. It's what else you would like to do with the unit that will change what is BEST FOR YOU. Do you want routing out of the box, true paperless, aerial photo, built in compass, etc...

 

You said "I dont want to spend the money and later find out I did'nt get what I wanted." We don't know what you want/need for your GPSr, but if your budget is tight and non-flexible I would agree with StarBrand the Venture is the minimum unit you should get.

 

Hang around, do a lot of reading and make the first purchase one that will last you awhile.

:D

 

Good advice from a new purchaser. B) Doing your homework means you'll likely come away happy in the end!

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It's not informative if both sides of the coin is not presented in the right light. The 1-2 star ratings on the Amazon.com board represents 10 out of 74 comments. I saw a Garmin brand with almost the same ratio with almost 400 comments.
Its not informative if you don't mention which models either, and you HAVE to look at more than one source. That's why I scoff at folks saying all the info they need is to look at the postings here :D

 

As I said, number don't like but you gotta look at lots of them.

 

BTW, which Garmin model had "almost" the same ratio of unhappy customers as the PN-40? I don't doubt it's one of the newer onse, the mature models (as you pointed out) generally improve.

 

FWIW, the box scores from Amazon show this % of unhappy 1-2 star reviews for a few models discussed around here lately:

 

PN-20: 20.45%

PN-40: 13.51%

ETrex Legend HCX: 10.65%

Venture HC: 8.72%

GPS60CSX: 6.45%

Edited by lee_rimar
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It's not informative if both sides of the coin is not presented in the right light. The 1-2 star ratings on the Amazon.com board represents 10 out of 74 comments. I saw a Garmin brand with almost the same ratio with almost 400 comments.
Its not informative if you don't mention which models either, and you HAVE to look at more than one source. That's why I scoff at folks saying all the info they need is to look at the postings here :D

 

As I said, number don't like but you gotta look at lots of them.

 

BTW, which Garmin model had "almost" the same ratio of unhappy customers as the PN-40? I don't doubt it's one of the newer onse, the mature models (as you pointed out) generally improve.

 

FWIW, the box scores from Amazon show this % of unhappy 1-2 star reviews for a few models discussed around here lately:

 

PN-20: 20.45%

PN-40: 13.51%

ETrex Legend HCX: 10.65%

Venture HC: 8.72%

GPS60CSX: 6.45%

 

So there are almost as many unhappy customers who bought the Legend HCX (old and mature) as there are the PN-40 (new and maturing)...interesting! B)

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It's not informative if both sides of the coin is not presented in the right light. The 1-2 star ratings on the Amazon.com board represents 10 out of 74 comments. I saw a Garmin brand with almost the same ratio with almost 400 comments.
Its not informative if you don't mention which models either, and you HAVE to look at more than one source. That's why I scoff at folks saying all the info they need is to look at the postings here :D

 

As I said, number don't like but you gotta look at lots of them.

 

BTW, which Garmin model had "almost" the same ratio of unhappy customers as the PN-40? I don't doubt it's one of the newer onse, the mature models (as you pointed out) generally improve.

 

FWIW, the box scores from Amazon show this % of unhappy 1-2 star reviews for a few models discussed around here lately:

 

PN-20: 20.45%

PN-40: 13.51%

ETrex Legend HCX: 10.65%

Venture HC: 8.72%

GPS60CSX: 6.45%

Pull up the Oregon and the Colorado and they become more telling.

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It's not informative if both sides of the coin is not presented in the right light. The 1-2 star ratings on the Amazon.com board represents 10 out of 74 comments. I saw a Garmin brand with almost the same ratio with almost 400 comments.
Its not informative if you don't mention which models either, and you HAVE to look at more than one source. That's why I scoff at folks saying all the info they need is to look at the postings here :D

 

As I said, number don't like but you gotta look at lots of them.

 

BTW, which Garmin model had "almost" the same ratio of unhappy customers as the PN-40? I don't doubt it's one of the newer onse, the mature models (as you pointed out) generally improve.

 

FWIW, the box scores from Amazon show this % of unhappy 1-2 star reviews for a few models discussed around here lately:

 

PN-20: 20.45%

PN-40: 13.51%

ETrex Legend HCX: 10.65%

Venture HC: 8.72%

GPS60CSX: 6.45%

Pull up the Oregon and the Colorado and they become more telling.

Newegg reviews?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductRevie...N82E16858108183

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Personally, I love my eTrex Legend HCx. With a 4GB memory card in the slot, and a little ingenuity, I managed to cram in 24K topo maps for all of California, a few neighboring states as well as road-maps for the entire United States... With room left over.

 

I think selecting a GPSr is one of those areas where it's very easy to confuse what you need with what you want. I like my Legend because it's small, does what I want it to do and does very little else. It's taken a good dosage of abuse and never failed me.

 

When it's not busy saving my butt from getting lost in the deep back-country of Southern Cal, it consistently gets me within about 20' feet of a geocache. That's really all I want it to do. Can I do paperless geocaching? No, I can't... But then I've never needed anything but the coordinates and my thinking cap for casual geocaching.

 

Just my two-cents.

 

Do your own research, take your time in deciding and then trust your own best judgment.

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Pull up the Oregon and the Colorado and they become more telling.
Yah, newer models. That's how you can recognize the pioneers -- they're the ones with the arrows sticking out of their backs :D

 

Percentage of 1&2 star reviews at Amazon for Colorado 400T & Oregon 400T...

 

CO 400T: 17.3% (14/81)

OR 400T: 20% (9/45)

 

Another problem with those number is there aren't many of them, yet. I started looking for more Colorado and Oregon models. For some models there are even fewer ratings than noted above -- makes it harder to get an idea of what's a widespread pattern or just an isolated complaint.

 

Still, I'd rather tally the votes of several dozen or hundred different folks than I would of any one person here casting their vote a few dozen or hundreds of times B)

Edited by lee_rimar
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Pull up the Oregon and the Colorado and they become more telling.
Yah, newer models. That's how you can recognize the pioneers -- they're the ones with the arrows sticking out of their backs :D

 

Percentage of 1&2 star reviews at Amazon for Colorado 400T & Oregon 400T...

 

CO 400T: 17.3% (14/81)

OR 400T: 20% (9/45)

 

Another problem with those number is there aren't many of them, yet. I started looking for more Colorado and Oregon models. For some models there are even fewer ratings than noted above -- makes it harder to get an idea of what's a widespread pattern or just an isolated complaint.

 

Still, I'd rather tally the votes of several dozen or hundred different folks than I would of any one person here casting their vote a few dozen or hundreds of times B)

 

Then don't read these forums? I mean, you know people will be coming here and asking the same questions hundreds of times, right? B)

 

I wonder why you were OK to post the PN-40 states (newer model) and then seem to cmplain that the "pioneer's" newer units are brought up? Or am I reading that all wrong?

 

Seems fairly telling to me, you're correct TL!

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Pull up the Oregon and the Colorado and they become more telling.
Yah, newer models. That's how you can recognize the pioneers -- they're the ones with the arrows sticking out of their backs B)

 

Percentage of 1&2 star reviews at Amazon for Colorado 400T & Oregon 400T...

 

CO 400T: 17.3% (14/81)

OR 400T: 20% (9/45)

 

Another problem with those number is there aren't many of them, yet. I started looking for more Colorado and Oregon models. For some models there are even fewer ratings than noted above -- makes it harder to get an idea of what's a widespread pattern or just an isolated complaint.

 

Still, I'd rather tally the votes of several dozen or hundred different folks than I would of any one person here casting their vote a few dozen or hundreds of times B)

Arrows in the back... funny but oh so wrong an image... :D

 

And you've identified the same problem with the PN, low number comments. The only other telling resource you can give is the DeLorme forums and that ratio is really small when put in the proper perspective of how many people have purchased the unit and are quetly very happy with it.

 

I don't have a problem with issues being pointed out, but a balance is needed so the proper perspective is in place for the right evaluation to be made. Vice verse goes with the exuberant users. Frankly, I'm very happy with mine. I consider myself to be a very lucky early adopter in face of the high number of issues that came out of the gate. Honestly, these issues for the most part have been resolved.

 

There are still a few bugs cropping up, but these might be repackaged resells. When I worked for Computer City, this was a common practice to put fresh shrinkwrap on a product that was obviously defective per the customer's description and put back on the front of the shelf. I have since made it a practice to grab the (name it) from the back of the stack when making my purchases. Caveat Emptor.

 

-=-=alright alright... I'll start using my spell checker.=-=-

Edited by TotemLake
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I wonder why you were OK to post the PN-40 states (newer model) and then seem to cmplain that the "pioneer's" newer units are brought up? Or am I reading that all wrong?
Yes Roddy, you are reading it wrong.

 

1) I'm not complaining about Garmin newer models being brought up - in fact, I specifically asked TL to let me know which models he was talking about, and then I posted the numbers.

 

2) I'm not supporting or bashing either Garmin and DeLorme here - I'm simply pointing out that there are other, wider sources of information that what's posted on this specific board.

 

Do you really not understand that?

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I wonder why you were OK to post the PN-40 states (newer model) and then seem to cmplain that the "pioneer's" newer units are brought up? Or am I reading that all wrong?
Yes Roddy, you are reading it wrong.

 

1) I'm not complaining about Garmin newer models being brought up - in fact, I specifically asked TL to let me know which models he was talking about, and then I posted the numbers.

 

2) I'm not supporting or bashing either Garmin and DeLorme here - I'm simply pointing out that there are other, wider sources of information that what's posted on this specific board.

 

Do you really not understand that?

 

I guess I simply don't understand the "pioneer" and "arrows in the back" comments...the rest seemed fairly straight forward though.

 

So, no I don't understand...the part I mentioned.

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I guess I simply don't understand the "pioneer" and "arrows in the back" comments...the rest seemed fairly straight forward though.

 

So, no I don't understand...the part I mentioned.

Think covered wagons into new territory. The entrenched residents didn't take too kindly to strangers mucking up their backyards. :D

 

Colorado, Oregon and the PN-40 are all new comers that were mucking up.

Edited by TotemLake
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I don't have a problem with issues being pointed out, but a balance is needed so the proper perspective is in place for the right evaluation to be made. Vice verse goes with the exuberant users.
We're in agreemenet here.
And you've identified the same problem with the PN, low number comments.
Yes, a small sample size is a problem. Not entirely scientific, but under 50 reviews on Amazon strikes me as a bit small. Ideally I'd like to see over a hundred ratings before I'd mine the data for patterns.

 

But .. and this is really important to this discussion ... getting even 40 different folks' opinions is a wider sample than one "exuberant user" repeating the same thing endlessly.

 

Frankly, I'm very happy with (my PN-40). I consider myself to be a very lucky early adopter in face of the high number of issues that came out of the gate. Honestly, these issues for the most part have been resolved. ... There are still a few bugs cropping up, but these might be repackaged resells.
Specific to the PN-40, you might be right but I'm not entirely convinced. Time will tell.

 

I think the PN-40 issue with WAAS is probably nailed in the current firmware. Overall reception/reliability still seems to be variable, depends who you ask. Some seem to have a magic PN suitable for spelunking, others report more believable results (yes, any GPSR will lose it's way sometimes), and others really do seem to have lemons. Hard to tell what the portions for each category are.

 

One area that is still worrisome if the unexpected shutdowns and failures to power up. Still being discussed on DeLorme's forums in recent weeks -- and hard to say if it's really a firmware issue, power management issue, bad case plastics/fit to connections, or a combination of all of those. I'll be especially interested to see if the PN-30 exhibits similar problems.

 

Obviously "new product" woes are not unique to DeLorme, as the reviews of newer Garmin models will show :D

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One area that is still worrisome if the unexpected shutdowns and failures to power up. Still being discussed on DeLorme's forums in recent weeks -- and hard to say if it's really a firmware issue, power management issue, bad case plastics/fit to connections, or a combination of all of those. I'll be especially interested to see if the PN-30 exhibits similar problems.

I can answer to part of this specific issue (well and and the signal wander as well), but part of this is coming across as an inability to do a friendly shutdown upon low voltage. I think FW2.6 addresses this to some extent. Time will tell, I've only been on this FW for a week (cuz of that test failure last week). I've also experienced a couple of freeze ups prior to 2.6, and when I catch it, I don't futz around. The batteries are removed and the system is allowed to discharge the capaciter (about 30 seconds or so) and then I put the batteries back. If I suspect the batteries are low, they're changed out without a second chance. I can use them in my pen lights and wireless mice and keyboards and they go in the specific baggie for that.

 

Does that make me antsy? Ubetcha! Will I get rid of it for a Garmin? Unlikely. The other two I was looking at just doesn't compare to the feature set I have with this one. So, there are trade-offs I'm willing to put up with that others aren't and vice verse others will do the same with the other paperless models I was looking at.

 

And I think this is what people have to realize... there are trade-offs specific models will impact upon ownership. Take for instance the downloads for DeLorme. My download speeds have dropped from 300 KB/Sec to 38 KB/Sec and it is not DeLorme's fault. Comcast is shaping my broadband due to the amount of files I have pulled down. Over 98GB just for color aerials. I haven't measured the Hi-Res stuff. Another user is running at 1 MB/Sec on his downloads... he's on Roadrunner I think and has pulled down 6X my downloads.

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Wow, it’s amazing how “Interesting” these discussions can get. To me, it kind of looks like the Fan boy thing with PN-40 is getting a little out of control again. To throw in my two cents worth of reality (Admittedly, like everyone else it‘s “MY VERSION“ of reality), while the PN-40 is a respectable unit, and a very decent bargain in my opinion:

 

It’s no more accurate than any of the other modern units out there such as the Oregons, Dakota’s, etrex’s, 60’s etc. In flat areas with open skies it can be accurate to within feet, in the canyons it’s often off by hundreds of feet.

 

It’s no more sensitive than any of the other units around. It will loose reception in heavy treecover, canyons etc at least as often if not more so than most modern units.

 

While it does auto route, it is probably the worst at it of any GPS unit I’ve used with this capability. Much of this is due to the maps, and there aren’t any options at this time to improve on that.

 

It’s very hard to get an idea of the PN-40 through reviews/opinions because compared to other units there are not many PN-40’s out there. For whatever reason, the PN-40 does seem to have a fan boy base though. Maybe it’s the quality of the unit, maybe the bright color changes brain chemistry, hard to say which….

 

Of all the GPS units I’ve used over the years, the PN-40 crashes the most, although I must say it’s always been recoverable, and most of the problems I’ve experienced are related to it shutting down improperly when the batteries get low. Others have mentioned ways to overcome this. Whether or not you care to

 

Myself, I don’t think the capability of the PN-40 acceptable at all for road routing, so I completely discount that capability and recommend that people owe it to themselves to get something that does this job competently such as a NUVI. If you have a nuvi, it can take care of the paperless stuff for you, allowing you to use virtually any handheld for the navigation stuff. Depending on how you do your off road exploring, there are a lot of good choices out there.

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Wow, it’s amazing how “Interesting” these discussions can get. To me, it kind of looks like the Fan boy thing with PN-40 is getting a little out of control again. To throw in my two cents worth of reality (Admittedly, like everyone else it‘s “MY VERSION“ of reality), while the PN-40 is a respectable unit, and a very decent bargain in my opinion:

 

It’s no more accurate than any of the other modern units out there such as the Oregons, Dakota’s, etrex’s, 60’s etc. In flat areas with open skies it can be accurate to within feet, in the canyons it’s often off by hundreds of feet.

 

It’s no more sensitive than any of the other units around. It will loose reception in heavy treecover, canyons etc at least as often if not more so than most modern units.

 

While it does auto route, it is probably the worst at it of any GPS unit I’ve used with this capability. Much of this is due to the maps, and there aren’t any options at this time to improve on that.

 

It’s very hard to get an idea of the PN-40 through reviews/opinions because compared to other units there are not many PN-40’s out there. For whatever reason, the PN-40 does seem to have a fan boy base though. Maybe it’s the quality of the unit, maybe the bright color changes brain chemistry, hard to say which….

 

Of all the GPS units I’ve used over the years, the PN-40 crashes the most, although I must say it’s always been recoverable, and most of the problems I’ve experienced are related to it shutting down improperly when the batteries get low. Others have mentioned ways to overcome this. Whether or not you care to

 

Myself, I don’t think the capability of the PN-40 acceptable at all for road routing, so I completely discount that capability and recommend that people owe it to themselves to get something that does this job competently such as a NUVI. If you have a nuvi, it can take care of the paperless stuff for you, allowing you to use virtually any handheld for the navigation stuff. Depending on how you do your off road exploring, there are a lot of good choices out there.

 

WARNING: DeLorme Fanboy PRESIDENT comment coming:

 

I use my PN-40 for routing, I own no other unit at all (unless you want to count my mothballed 315 or the 500LE which sits atop my desk). I find the routing quite useful, I use it fro caching, travel and just for fun! Has it got me lost? No, but it has told me to use a few roads which aren't there. ON THE OTHER HAND, I owned a Garmin OR 300 for a few weeks and I can tell you that it sent me off-course as much or MORE than the PN-40 did/does. I'll never forget the "road" it told us to take while vacationing up north....a trail at best which, halfway out and in the middle of nowhere, the trail turned into a sandpit for about a 1/4 mile. Had I been in a car instead of my Jeep....OUCH! Moral to this story, what some find to be unusble, others are more than happy to use!

 

I love how some come in and spew about fanboy clubs and disparage our comments to make it look as if we're unreliable due to bias....OK! We may have a fondness for our fav, but I'm sure we can all tell of our experiences fairly and HONESTLY!

 

More of my (apparently overly-biased) experiences: NEVER had an issue with my unit crashing...not one time have I had a power outtage issue or have had my unit freeze up. Now, this might be surprising, but this is for BOTH my PN-40s, the one I lost and my new one! So, I must truly be a lucky soul? I've PURPOSELY left the unit on until it dies, never saw an issue ever, not once!

 

While My OR 300 sent me off on the drunken bee dance more often than not, the PN-40 doesn't seem to do this. On our last outting, I did notice a little bit of swinging, but still no DBD. The OR 300 reminded me of my experiences with the Etrex Yellow...OUCH!

 

My PN-40 locked sats AND had WAAS 15 minutes (almost to the second) after I powered up the very first time...INDOORS! Had +/- of 7' while the OR 300 sitting next to it had a reading of double digits and more. Even after taking the OR outside, it still never locked WAAS and never did up until I returned it.

 

I have seen my new unit lose sat signal a few times which I was amazed at since my first PN-40 NEVER lost sat lock....ever! This doesn't trouble me though, I consider that a good track record since the tree coverage was quite high when I lost lock and it hasn't been an ongoing problem!

 

You say there aren't that many PNs out there? I'd wager there's a fair share out and more being sold daily! You say it has a "fanboy" following and you're not sure why? Maybe because it is indeed the best "bang for the buck" on the market these days? This isn't my opinion alone either... When a company does something right and then offers that something at a reasonable price, people tend to speak favorably of that product and company...fairly simple logic IYAM. Garmin sends out the new OR and WOW, talk about sticker shock...OUCH! It has come down a bit, but it's still way higher than the PNs are...go figure. I liken that to buying a Harley, you're paying a premium for the name. But, Garmin fanboys rush right out and buy it up and yes, even talk it up while quietly complaining in other threads (I see they just recently sent out an update which has resolved a few more problems)

 

It's funny, talking with friends and others who email me, many never even heard of DeLorme before some of us brought it up. You'd be surprised how many of these people THANK me (and I'm sure others as well) for opening their eyes to a competent alternative! So many only know there's a Garmin and maybe even heard of Magellen, MAINLY because that's the units brought up and suggested more in here...and why? Well, because most of those bringing the name up are (you guessed it) loyal customers. Go figure...not because it's the best thing out there in many cases, but because they are brand loyal! I personally am NOT brand loyal, I have owned a few Garmins and a couple Magellens before buying my PN-40.

 

I guess it's OK for the Garmin lovers to tout their brand as superior, but if a DeLorme lover does, we're fanboys who shouldn't be taken seriously?

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...box scores from Amazon ... % of unhappy 1-2 star reviews for a few models ...

 

PN-20: 20.45%

PN-40: 13.51%

ETrex Legend HCX: 10.65%

Venture HC: 8.72%

GPS60CSX: 6.45%

So there are almost as many unhappy customers who bought the Legend HCX (old and mature) as there are the PN-40 (new and maturing)...interesting! :D

What a strange and selective way to read those numbers! Did you put the smiley face at the end so you could say you were only kidding when someone points this out?

 

I'd (cautiously, very tongue in cheek) read it as saying folks were about 27% more likely to be unhappy with a PN-40 than with the eTrex Legend HCX * and more than twice as likely to be unhappy with a PN-40 than if they had bought a GPS60cx **

 

BUT... I wouldn't read it that way either, really: The sample sizes aren't large enough. Maybe if you were comparing models where the numbers of ratings were well into the hundreds you could seriously read it that way, but not when there are only 40-50 ratings. The value in those kinds of spot checks on Amazon or other vendors is to also read what kind o problems are recurring across a batch of folks who all bought the same model.

 

AND... even with concerns about a small sample size, Amazon still has a LARGER group of individuals providing ratings for each of those models than the number of folks offering their sage advice in these forums. I noticed even you recommended it as a reference source to someone in another thread this afternoon.

 

---

Footnotes:

* PN-40 over Legend HCX dissatisfaction rate: 13.51 / 10.65 = 1.268

** PN-40 over Legend HCX dissatisfaction rate: 13.51 / 6.45 = 2.094

Edited by lee_rimar
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...box scores from Amazon ... % of unhappy 1-2 star reviews for a few models ...

 

PN-20: 20.45%

PN-40: 13.51%

ETrex Legend HCX: 10.65%

Venture HC: 8.72%

GPS60CSX: 6.45%

So there are almost as many unhappy customers who bought the Legend HCX (old and mature) as there are the PN-40 (new and maturing)...interesting! B)

What a strange and selective way to read those numbers! Did you put the smiley face at the end so you could say you were only kidding when someone points this out?

 

I'd (cautiously, very tongue in cheek) read it as saying folks were about 27% more likely to be unhappy with a PN-40 than with the eTrex Legend HCX * and more than twice as likely to be unhappy with a PN-40 than if they had bought a GPS60cx **

 

BUT... I wouldn't read it that way either, really: The sample sizes aren't large enough. Maybe if you were comparing models where the numbers of ratings were well into the hundreds you could seriously read it that way, but not when there are only 40-50 ratings. The value in those kinds of spot checks on Amazon or other vendors is to also read what kind o problems are recurring across a batch of folks who all bought the same model.

 

AND... even with concerns about a small sample size, Amazon still has a LARGER group of individuals providing ratings for each of those models than the number of folks offering their sage advice in these forums.

 

---

Footnotes:

* PN-40 over Legend HCX dissatisfaction rate: 13.51 / 10.65 = 1.268

** PN-40 over Legend HCX dissatisfaction rate: 13.51 / 6.45 = 2.094

 

I'm sorry my viewing of those stats didn't meet your approval, I'll try harder next time! B):D But I wonder, why did you post those stats if they're skewed?

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I'm sorry my viewing of those stats didn't meet your approval, I'll try harder next time! B):D But I wonder, why did you post those stats if they're skewed?
Roddy, you've misunderstood what I wrote (again). I've reread the post and don't see how you came up with your interpretation of it. Perhaps if you could ask a serious question without making clown faces, I could clear something up for you?
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I'm sorry my viewing of those stats didn't meet your approval, I'll try harder next time! B):D But I wonder, why did you post those stats if they're skewed?
Roddy, you've misunderstood what I wrote (again). I've reread the post and don't see how you came up with your interpretation of it. Perhaps if you could ask a serious question without making clown faces, I could clear something up for you?

 

Odd, I thought the point was quite clear. As was the question.

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Odd, I thought the point was quite clear. As was the question.
Not really. I found your last question so odd as to be almost impossible to reply to. It's as if you read an earlier post of mine as saying something almost the exact opposite (or at least awfully far sideways) from what I wrote. Hmm...

 

OH!!! I get it now! I can almost turn this into a coherent conversation:

 

Why did you post those stats if they're skewed?
They're not skewed. I said the sample size for some of the models is too small to draw broad conclusions - that's a very differnt thing from being "skewed." Originally, I posted them in response to another member's remark that "numbers don't lie" and have discussed what conclusions you can (and cannot) draw from the numbers. Additionally:
The value in those kinds of spot checks on Amazon or other vendors is to also see what kind of problems are recurring across a batch of folks who all bought the same model. And even with concerns about a small sample size, Amazon still has a LARGER group of individuals providing ratings for each of those models than the number of folks offering their sage advice in these forums.
Does that help?

 

Phew, this is harder than figuring out where the centre of a triangle is :D

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=230794

Edited by lee_rimar
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