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What is it with DNF'S?!


Turtle_Sask
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Hi, I have noticed that in lots of the post recently people are afraid to log DNF'S. What I'm wondering is, do DNF'S hurt you or your account somehow? Are they added up like your smileys are? Personally I like logging DNF'S because it shows that the cache is not all that easy. Or do people just don't like to admit they couldn't find it?

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Some people might not log them due to laziness.

They might speand a whole day caching and then go to log their finds and decide they just don't want to log those 3 DNFs.

Now if they are logging their finds and just saying TFTC, then they would have a bit of time to log their DNFs.

 

I log my DNF's. In fact on my last 2 outings I have logged my DNFs already but not my finds yet.

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A DNF should not be looked at as a demerit of some sort.

 

It is just the outcome of a seach. You looked - you Did Not Find. Simple enough. Think of it as a story to share. It also provides valuable feedback to the cache owner and future seekers. Even a semi lame DNF like "looked for 3 minutes before the smell from the bakery across the street lured me away" provides information - it tells future seekers to eat a hearty meal before trying this one!!

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I've never understood that. I take great pride in all my DNFs, and will log them religiously, going so far as to log multiple DNFs if I failed more than once. I am at heart, a story teller, and DNFs help me tell my story to the caching community.

 

This expresses my view of DNFs perfectly.

 

I do wonder what cache owner's make of my lengthy DNFs: whether they like them or would prefer I didn't log them. I've seen people here express some angst over DNFs logged on their caches but I don't know what the collective cache owner opinion is. (Though in truth, all that matters is my local community and they seem like a pretty laid back bunch.)

 

Carolyn

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A DNF should not be looked at as a demerit of some sort.

 

It is just the outcome of a seach. You looked - you Did Not Find. Simple enough. Think of it as a story to share. It also provides valuable feedback to the cache owner and future seekers. Even a semi lame DNF like "looked for 3 minutes before the smell from the bakery across the street lured me away" provides information - it tells future seekers to eat a hearty meal before trying this one!!

 

That would not be the take-away message for me. For me it would be, "Remember to bring money to buy baked goods and practice the big-eyed starving look before deploying it on my beloved." :unsure:

 

Carolyn

Edited by Steve&GeoCarolyn
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I usually log my finds by searching for caches found by my boyfriend and caching partner using the "found by" field, as he usually keeps track of that. There is no search function for "DNF'd by" thus I have no idea which caches I have DNF'd. Unless it was one that particularly stood out in my memory, then I will seek it out and log it. I think he always logs them though.

 

I should note that it seems like most DNFs that *dont* stand out enough to seek out are more like DNC's (Did not care) Showed up, saw the area, groaned, looked for a minute maybe two, and walked away. No sense logging those if I've got nothing nice to say.

 

I also have trouble logging my finds in a timely manner, I'm busy, I sit in front of a computer all day at work, and I have a hard time logging just "TFTC" in order to get the logging out of the way

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Actually what is happening is that word is getting out about how Jeremy and the lackeys at Groundspeak like to go out for a few drinks after work and they just sit around and laugh at all the DNFs. Its cruel, but true...

 

 

They look like this: :D:unsure:;)

 

 

In fact, I even heard that a loud buzzer goes off at headquarters when a DNF is posted, and everybody stops what they're doing and has a big belly laugh! That's why so little gets done over there.

Edited by knowschad
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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

 

I've been doing some work in the area so I keep dropping by but each time the place is way too full of muggles for my liking - several more DNA's ... ;)

 

Last week I drove past and the park was EMPTY...yeehaw. I tried being normal for a change (wasn't wearing my ankle braces) and walked across the grassy area reading my GPS. Bad ankle went out from under me, I fell heavily on my side - didn't hurt the GPS, just me... :D One sprained ankle, one sore arm and several bruised ribs. Would sure like to post another DNA if for nothing else than to keep personal track of how many dang times I've gone after that cache!! :unsure:

 

I log a DNF if I actually get to search for the cache, give it a good try and really can't find it. If I don't even get to look, then no, I don't think there's any point in posting a DNF.

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Hi, I have noticed that in lots of the post recently people are afraid to log DNF'S.

 

I debated this a little bit here in the forums with knowschad a month or two ago. I think about whether to log a DNF or not, on a case-by-case basis. To me, a DNF is a "signal" to others... both to the owner and to other cachers, and I adjust my thinking based on that signal. I assume then, that:

  • The owner will look at my DNF and, weighing in my text+my experience level+the DNF history of the cache, and make some kind of determination about whether the cache is muggled, mis-rated, etc.
  • Other cachers will look at my DNF and, weighing in my text+my experience level+their experience level+the DNF history of the cache, will make some determination about whether to try for it, when to try for it, or how long to look for it.

So... Assuming that others are making decisions based on my DNF, I post them when I feel like they are useful and meaningful to the audience.

 

If I put a yeoman's effort into finding it, and haven't found it, I'll post a DNF. If I just stopped by, gave it a quick peek, but didn't have time to really give it the full treatment, I post a note.

 

If I looked for it today, didn't find it, but plan on making another effort in the next few days, I post a note. If I don't think I'll get back to it any time soon, I post a DNF.

 

If I knew from others going in that it might be missing, and I am coming to the same conclusion, I post a DNF. If ground circumstances (like construction, etc.) lead me to believe a cache is likely muggled or lost, I post a DNF.

 

So to me, a DNF means "I have made an honest effort to find it, and commensurate with my skill level and the cache's difficulty, I am really having trouible finding it. This is harder than I expected or may be lost."

 

And a note means "I visited, but I am not ready to imply to others that this is harder than expected or missing just yet."

 

I DO know that others feel differently, and I really liked the original comment about being a storyteller--I tell the exact same story with a note, and tell a slightly different story by posting a DNF.

Edited by Sky King 36
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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

That's where I'll just log a "Note" for the cache, with a "Did not look" somewhere in there, with the reason involved. If it's a muggle problem at certain hours, I'll note that. If it's a blocked road, mountains of snow at the end of a parking lot -- whatever. In the latter case, it lets fellow cachers know not to bother unless they've got a front-loader ... or wait until the snow melts for a week or two.
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After posting, noted Sky King's assessment, and concur 100%. I, too, will not post a DNF if I just check out a 4.0 difficulty for a few minutes during lunch to see what the access is like. I won't actually put in a real search for harder ones unless I know I have the time, so no DNF if there's no real attempt. Even with info attached to explain, the DNF entry shows up in PQs in GSAK and does nothing to help other finders, and may just confuse them unless they have time to go back and look at the details.

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I try to make sure I log a DNF every time I think it matters.

The rest of the time I often forget when I'm logging.

 

the ones that matter are even some of the DNA (did not attempt)'s, like the new one at the park at the picnic table next to the play area. We logged it whenever we drove by and there were people sitting at the table so we could not get it. They needed to know what a pain in the a** it was to have a cache there. Would have left it alone had it not interrupted my great sea of smilies in Auburn.

 

DNF's are good to let the cache owner know when it might be missing, when the cache might be rated too low, when it's in a stupid place that people can't get to for the muggles.

 

I went on vacation last week and I sure don't remember most of my DNF's. I didn't have many, but it was all I could do to remember all my finds. I did log the ones I thought mattered though.

 

(I know I should do them all, I'll try harder, all right guys?)

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I get great satisfaction when I find a cache that has several DNF's before my find. I also watch logs for DNF's on caches I have placed as an indication that I may need to check my cache. Therefore, I think it is good to log DNF's when you cannot find a cache you actually looked for.

 

Just my $.02....spend it wisely!

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I get great satisfaction when I find a cache that has several DNF's before my find.

 

I am happy that I have provided other cachers with so much satisfaction! Considering that I am eligible for a DNF Century Challenge Cache, it is another example of a win-win outcome.

Edited by Erickson
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From my coin Please Log You DNF's!

 

THERE IS NO SHAME IN LOGGING A DNF!

 

A DNF LOG IS NOT AN ADMITION OF FAILURE!

 

In fact, the logging of a DNF is quite contrary to that notion. Logging a DNF is a very important and productive tool that benefits cache owners and other cache seekers. Unfortunately, logging a DNF currently carries very negative connotations, such as failure. This is highly unfortunate and the geocaching ommunity pays the price because of it. Here's why:

 

I like to think I am responsible cache owner for I check on my caches regularly. However, when no logs are posted on my cache I am left to assume that the cache has not been saught and I feel no need to check on it. When a DNF is logged, immediately, the possibility that it is gone is apparent and I take my next oppurtunity to check on my cache. Let's say for example that my cache for whatever reason disappears. The next day, a cacher visits the location and does not find the cache, but does not log a DNF. The second day, another cacher visits the location, doesn't find it, and also does not log a DNF. The third day, you visit the cache and can't find the cache as well. You log a DNF. When I recieve that DNF notice, I will take my next oppurtunity to visit the cache site to check on the cache. If it is indeed gone, I will disable, replace, and enable the cache as soon as I possibly can. Now, the point being, that if the cacher on the first day had logged their DNF, I would have checked on the cache that first day thus saving the cacher on the second day and you on the third day from wasting you time and money searching for a cache that was not present. Does that make sense? You will have paid the price for other cachers not logging their DNF's. In truth, the last thing I want is for someone to be looking for one of my caches when it is gone. I think a lot of cache owners will agree with this paragraph and also will assume that no activity suggests that the cache is not being visited, while checking the cache after a DNF.

 

This is not the only reason. There are others. For example, DNF's being logged regularly on a cache can help the cache owner determine a suitable difficulty level for the cache. If DNF's are being logged on a cache, the cache owner may raise the difficulty level of the cache, thus helping you more accurately decide the difficulty of a cache. Aside from leading to more accurate difficulty ratings, the cache owner may decide to add a hint if they want it to be more easily found.

 

These are just a couple of the reasons why logging a DNF is a very important practice. The next time you are out caching please be courteous to other cachers, including the cache owner, and log your DNF's. Logging DNF's is not a shameful experience. Take pride in the fact that you are informing other cachers that the find could not be made.

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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

That's where I'll just log a "Note" for the cache, with a "Did not look" somewhere in there, with the reason involved. If it's a muggle problem at certain hours, I'll note that. If it's a blocked road, mountains of snow at the end of a parking lot -- whatever. In the latter case, it lets fellow cachers know not to bother unless they've got a front-loader ... or wait until the snow melts for a week or two.

What is there about the simple declarative sentence "I visited the cache and did not find it" that you don't understand? The posting of a note makes no logical sense to me. You either found it or you didn't find it. Those are the two mutually exclusive options that logically cover all cache visits, in my opinion. I am a logic designer so I may be being too literal, but a note saying "I didn't find it" boggles my mind.
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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

That's where I'll just log a "Note" for the cache, with a "Did not look" somewhere in there, with the reason involved. If it's a muggle problem at certain hours, I'll note that. If it's a blocked road, mountains of snow at the end of a parking lot -- whatever. In the latter case, it lets fellow cachers know not to bother unless they've got a front-loader ... or wait until the snow melts for a week or two.

What is there about the simple declarative sentence "I visited the cache and did not find it" that you don't understand? The posting of a note makes no logical sense to me. You either found it or you didn't find it. Those are the two mutually exclusive options that logically cover all cache visits, in my opinion. I am a logic designer so I may be being too literal, but a note saying "I didn't find it" boggles my mind.

Wow. Maybe try designing some politeness instead.

 

No one said anything about DNF notes. A "Did not look" note indicates that something prevented the cacher from searching. Sometimes there are things we want to pass on to other cachers, and a note is a perfectly acceptable way to do this.

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There is no search function for "DNF'd by" thus I have no idea which caches I have DNF'd.

One can get a list of all one's DNF logs by going to:

 

"My Profile">Show all logs for "Caches">"Didn't Find It"

 

When I do that, I get 270 results, in some cases three or four for the same cache. On my way to 300 DNFs! :unsure:

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People just need to do what they are comfortable doing when it comes to logging. There is no one right answer for found it, did not find it or write note. We each have our own interpretation. Mine is to log a find if I found the cache and signed the log. Log a DNF if I searched for the cache and did not find it. Write a note if I have been to the cache before and found it, or if I did not actually search for the cache for some reason. Works for me and I don't worry much about how others log.

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What WRASTRO said, with a nuance that we'll log a DNF if we looked and couldn't find the cache and log a "Needs Maintenance" if we found the cache and it needs help. There's a bit of a trend around our parts for some caches to log "Needs Maintenance" when they don't find the cache, but I don't understand how they know maintenance is needed if they haven't seen the container or its contents.

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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

That's where I'll just log a "Note" for the cache, with a "Did not look" somewhere in there, with the reason involved. If it's a muggle problem at certain hours, I'll note that. If it's a blocked road, mountains of snow at the end of a parking lot -- whatever. In the latter case, it lets fellow cachers know not to bother unless they've got a front-loader ... or wait until the snow melts for a week or two.

What is there about the simple declarative sentence "I visited the cache and did not find it" that you don't understand? The posting of a note makes no logical sense to me. You either found it or you didn't find it. Those are the two mutually exclusive options that logically cover all cache visits, in my opinion. I am a logic designer so I may be being too literal, but a note saying "I didn't find it" boggles my mind.

 

I have posted a note for a DNF. Only because in the past I had found. There was question on rather the cache was still there or not. The owner didn't seem to notice or didn't have time to go and check. Since it was close to my house I went out and checked. It was gone so I posted a note with a DNF

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I like the idea of adding a DNA category. It could either mean Did Not Attempt (which I would use often enough) or that you left some DNA at the scene of the search and never actually searched because you were too beat up to continue on to the search.

I wouldn't even mind seeing DNA as an attribute. You know for when you are likely to walk back from the cache looking like you just survived a fight with a feral kitten (like I look right now. Stupid blackberries!!).

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I like the idea of adding a DNA category. It could either mean Did Not Attempt (which I would use often enough) or that you left some DNA at the scene of the search and never actually searched because you were too beat up to continue on to the search.

I wouldn't even mind seeing DNA as an attribute. You know for when you are likely to walk back from the cache looking like you just survived a fight with a feral kitten (like I look right now. Stupid blackberries!!).

 

:unsure::blink::o

 

Isn't there a thread around here somewhere for worst caching wound stories...

 

That last DNA of mine when I fell...I'm sure I left some DNA on the ground. Impact was at highway speeds... ;)

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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

I hope not. Then I'll have about 884,000 of these to log.

 

Anyway, while I'm disappointed not more people log DNFs (so we can have a better gauge of how much interest a cache is generating), it does give me more chances to log a FTDNF.

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I will say that it is my perception that more and more people in my area are not logging their DNFs, though. How do I know this? Well, in part, because of logs that say things like, "Finally! After five visits, we finally managed to find this evil cache!!". So, out of curiousity, you check and you can't find a single DNF for them.

 

 

That said, I am going to bed, and that is NOT going to interfere with my sweet sleep.

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I have posted a note for a DNF. Only because in the past I had found. There was question on rather the cache was still there or not. The owner didn't seem to notice or didn't have time to go and check. Since it was close to my house I went out and checked. It was gone so I posted a note with a DNF

I'd usually post a NM for those I've found before, but can't find now and there's a very good chance it is missing. Just a suggestion.

Edited by Chrysalides
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The log page says Did Not Find, and we always say DNF here, but when you look at your logs on your profile, it says COULDN'T find. And the email notifications say couldn't find. So gc.com is giving mixed signals about what the log means.

 

I log my DNFs. I've logged three DNFs to this cache because I had a good story and/or photos each time. I have never had a complaint about any of my logs, and I know I have a few fans.

 

Edward

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I faithfully record all of my DNF's. See my signature line link to my DNF bookmark list.

 

But, it rather takes the wind out of one's sails when encountering cache owners who delete DNF logs. One especially militant cache owner will not allow a DNF log to stand if he checks the cache and determines that it was still there. My narrative about how it was a nice spot and a challenging hunt is now lost to the ages.

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I'm probably going to catch heat for this...especially being a newb and all.

 

Generally I haven't logged a DNF until I feel like I've been able to spend enough time to really give the spot the proper respect to look it over. To me this actually means going back multiple times and looking.

 

I know how my mind works, and I know that the first time I go somewhere it's likely just getting the layout of the place. The second time I'm there my brain's going to be better acquainted and will probably be more inclined to start thinking about where something might be stashed away. If after the third time I come up empty-handed then I'm totally off or there's something wrong and will log the DNF.

 

If someone is going to take the time and energy to hide a cache then I feel it should be an equal amount of respect to put in the time and energy into finding it, something I know I'm just unlikely to be able to accomplish on a single try.

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I faithfully record all of my DNF's. See my signature line link to my DNF bookmark list.

 

But, it rather takes the wind out of one's sails when encountering cache owners who delete DNF logs. One especially militant cache owner will not allow a DNF log to stand if he checks the cache and determines that it was still there. My narrative about how it was a nice spot and a challenging hunt is now lost to the ages.

 

Groundspeak has guidelines for the deletion of "found" online logs. I am too lazy to look to see if the same applies to DNF online logs? If not, it should!

If you log a DNF, I would hope that the CO isn't allowed to delete a log unless it is proven that you did, indeed, find the cache.

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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

That's where I'll just log a "Note" for the cache, with a "Did not look" somewhere in there, with the reason involved. If it's a muggle problem at certain hours, I'll note that. If it's a blocked road, mountains of snow at the end of a parking lot -- whatever. In the latter case, it lets fellow cachers know not to bother unless they've got a front-loader ... or wait until the snow melts for a week or two.

What is there about the simple declarative sentence "I visited the cache and did not find it" that you don't understand? The posting of a note makes no logical sense to me. You either found it or you didn't find it. Those are the two mutually exclusive options that logically cover all cache visits, in my opinion. I am a logic designer so I may be being too literal, but a note saying "I didn't find it" boggles my mind.

So if I drive by the location in my car and glance in the direction of the cache, it's a DNF?

 

If no real effort was (or even could be) made to make a find, logging a DNF just raises red flags for both the owner and future finders unnecessarily. With your logic, I should log a DNF on every cache I haven't found yet, whether I made any attempt to search for them at all -- providing I was in the vicinity.

 

What part of the simple declarative sentence "I could not look because [xxx] made it impossible" bothers you? Such notes say something very useful about the status of the hide -- without raising concerns about whether a 1.0 difficulty cache might have been muggled, or was misrated.

Edited by ecanderson
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DNF's are only logged by normal people who are comfortable in their skin and have healthy egos. People that don't log DNF's are pathetic little weasels who are timid and afraid of life. The are usually paranoid schizo types and are obsessed with what strangers may think of them. They consider a DNF to be a public confession that they are worthless morons that can't even accomplish what everybody else's six year old girls can. Don't think they'll stick around and watch your back when you get in a bar fight...

 

How many find it logs have you seen that read "Found it on our fifth trip here!" with no previous DNF's posted. These people are at least trying to break out of the pack of demented slackers who can't find caches and can't admit it. They should be encouraged to join the rest of us healthy sane folks who realize this is just a game and not a matter of life and death and a failure or two won't get them incarcerated , unemployed, or tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

 

We must all strive to Pity these poor folks and not loathe them. I know that's hard, but we must be strong. We all know who these losers are and we must remember to be polite to them if forced to associate with them however briefly at a geo event.

 

I fail to find a good number of caches, as do most of us. But I would never want my daughter to marry some lowlife who can't write a DNF.

 

Actually writing DNF's can be fun if you blame the hider on a stupid, lame, crappy location while you're at it.

 

I hate them :unsure: .Have a nice day!

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But, it rather takes the wind out of one's sails when encountering cache owners who delete DNF logs.

There's all kinds, I guess. I download the GPX of a cache after I log a DNF, so that I have a record of it for myself in GSAK. I haven't encountered a CO who deleted my DNF log, but anything is possible.

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I get great satisfaction when I find a cache that has several DNF's before my find.

 

Ditto... I have walked miles in dense brush, have walked over a half mile each way in a bog that was over knee-deep mud the whole way... There is nothing in caching that motivates me more than a cache that:

  • Is assumed to be lost but is too hard to get to for it to be checked anytime soon
  • Has a lot of DNFs on it, especially from experienced cachers, since it was last found
  • Is just too wet, muddy, swampy, and miserable to get to for most cachers
  • Has been reported as having a damaged container and I can get to it easier than the owner

In fact, I recently adopted some caches that were just too hard for others to maintain.

 

 

"Let every cache owner know, whether they wish me well or ill, that I shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to insure a lost cache is found."

Edited by Sky King 36
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I sure wish we had a 'DNA' log ability. As in 'Did Not Attempt'.

 

I'd use it frequently. There's one cache I've visited so many times I've lost count. Last winter the snow was several feet deep and the GPS said 150 yards....DNA.

That's where I'll just log a "Note" for the cache, with a "Did not look" somewhere in there, with the reason involved. If it's a muggle problem at certain hours, I'll note that. If it's a blocked road, mountains of snow at the end of a parking lot -- whatever. In the latter case, it lets fellow cachers know not to bother unless they've got a front-loader ... or wait until the snow melts for a week or two.

What is there about the simple declarative sentence "I visited the cache and did not find it" that you don't understand? The posting of a note makes no logical sense to me. You either found it or you didn't find it. Those are the two mutually exclusive options that logically cover all cache visits, in my opinion. I am a logic designer so I may be being too literal, but a note saying "I didn't find it" boggles my mind.

So if I drive by the location in my car and glance in the direction of the cache, it's a DNF?

 

If no real effort was (or even could be) made to make a find, logging a DNF just raises red flags for both the owner and future finders unnecessarily. With your logic, I should log a DNF on every cache I haven't found yet, whether I made any attempt to search for them at all -- providing I was in the vicinity.

 

What part of the simple declarative sentence "I could not look because [xxx] made it impossible" bothers you? Such notes say something very useful about the status of the hide -- without raising concerns about whether a 1.0 difficulty cache might have been muggled, or was misrated.

OK I was trying to say it made no logical sense to me as an overly logical person. I know I am picky so I was trying to see your logic. So thanks, I think I get it. The explanation of "my" logic offended some people and I am sorry. I don't get this raising a DNF red flag I guess. In my world you would check "I visited the cache and did not find it" and then say in the log, "too much snow". In my world "didn't" implies am action was not done, not how hard the action is or why it wasn't done. If that is what you want, you could use "couldn't" or "unable".

 

EDIT: I reread my post and the "What part don't you understand" was way way to harsh. I don't know what I was thinking. Sorry

Edited by John E Cache
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I will log a DNF on a cache that I legitimately could not find. However, if I get to ground zero, glance around a bit then discover that I have to take my daughter back to the vehicle for a diaper change or some other such TMI, I'd be unlikely to journal my experience, nor do I think anyone would be particularly interested in hearing about it.

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I've never understood that. I take great pride in all my DNFs, and will log them religiously, going so far as to log multiple DNFs if I failed more than once. I am at heart, a story teller, and DNFs help me tell my story to the caching community.

 

Exactly.

I went caching and this is what happened...

I found these, but I didn't find those.

I may or may not choose to come back and try to find those again, but that doesn't change what happened.

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