knowschad Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm starting this thread in hopes of preventing a hijacking of the CCC thread. Please see the topic starter here I don't see anything wrong with the owner of that cache taking TBs from other caches and dropping them in his "prison", Knight (assuming the drop fits their goal, of course!). The only problem that I see is in trying to require an equal swap, which we all know is bogus when it comes to trackables. They're not swag... they are meant to be moved. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd empty the prison. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd empty the prison. You are SUCH an outlaw!!! Quote Link to comment
+Puppy Dawg Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd muggle the prison. Quote Link to comment
+mrbort Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd muggle the prison. I'll bite. Muggling implies you don't know what it is; you'd steal the prison. I'd take a bunch and leave nothing. I'd log them out of there and not care if my find it log was deleted Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd muggle the prison. And they call ME an outlaw. Quote Link to comment
Andronicus Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't even know why this is debated anymore. Groundspeak has made it clear that TB hotels can not require equal traids or 2 to 1 traides etc. They also made it clear that if someone has that as a requirement that you SHOULD ignor it. Nuf said. Quote Link to comment
+Scubasonic Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 When I see a TB Prison I make it my goal to go clean it out and release the prisoners, and I leave the abbreviation LN= Left Nothing TE=Took Everything Scubasonic Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm starting this thread in hopes of preventing a hijacking of the CCC thread. Please see the topic starter here I don't see anything wrong with the owner of that cache taking TBs from other caches and dropping them in his "prison", Knight (assuming the drop fits their goal, of course!). The only problem that I see is in trying to require an equal swap, which we all know is bogus when it comes to trackables. They're not swag... they are meant to be moved. If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel. - the hermit crabs @ Dec 2 2005, Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 It used to be that cache owners could threaten log deletion if you took more travelers than you left; some are still threatening, but if they actually do it, you can get that log re-instated. Any sort of trade restrictions on travelers would fall under additional logging requirements and be moot. I haven't seen a new TB Prison published in quite a while. Years ago a bug of mine was dropped in a PRISON in the midwest. I looked at the cache page, which had the biggest baddest RED TYPE RULES I'd ever seen on a cache page - all prison stuff, with LOG DELETION THREATS!!!!! . It annoyed me. I posted a request to the cache page that the next finder please move my bug along, whether or not they could trade for it. I mentioned that the bug did not belong to the Prison owner, he hadn't paid for the tag and tracking. I offered to allow a smiley on a cache of mine should the cache owner delete their find. Cache owner deleted my note, and emailed me that my bug was "missing". Cute, huh? Of course, I realized that I am an Idiot.... ;-) that bug, by the way, reappeared in a cache in South Carolina about 2 and half years later (it's missing again, but who knows? maybe it will appear again someday). Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 When I see a TB Prison I make it my goal to go clean it out and release the prisoners, and I leave the abbreviation LN= Left Nothing TE=Took Everything Scubasonic I don't see why you'd want to do that (with the possible exception of caches like the one that Isonzo Karst refers to). Just ignore the cache owners restrictions and treat it like any other cache that you'd find that contains travel bugs. Take what you want, leave what you want. Quote Link to comment
+Jeep_Dog Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't even know why this is debated anymore. Groundspeak has made it clear that TB hotels can not require equal traids or 2 to 1 traides etc. They also made it clear that if someone has that as a requirement that you SHOULD ignor it. Nuf said. I second that motion. Then again, I rarely read cache descriptions, so most likely I'd miss any against-the-guidelines ALRs for TBs (oh, yeah, and miss an "arrrgh" over an innacurate cache size listing, too - if you don't have an expectation of what to find, sometimes the find comes easier, eh?). When I have encountered that situation (although most COs have gone to a "please trade fairly" or "if you can, leave a TB" type of "policy"), I generally ignore it and take/leave TBs according to TB owner's desire for that TB's mission. I've had one log deleted for taking a TB or two without leaving any. I could care a less, so be it. With the CO's attitude, that cache probably isn't worth a memory in the online database for my "stats." Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 TB "prisons" are outside the scope of geocaching.com and do not need to be listed on this site. If someone deletes your log for not leaving a TB/coin, let your local Reviewer know (or post a Needs Archived" log). Not all TB hotles are prisons. The definition I use is that a TB Prison is any cache that restricts the movement of trackables. This includes any "equal swap" requirement or "please leave at least one TB in the cache". Unless you own the trackable, you really don't have the authority to restrict its movement. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 It used to be that cache owners could threaten log deletion if you took more travelers than you left; some are still threatening, but if they actually do it, you can get that log re-instated. Any sort of trade restrictions on travelers would fall under additional logging requirements and be moot. I haven't seen a new TB Prison published in quite a while. Years ago a bug of mine was dropped in a PRISON in the midwest. I looked at the cache page, which had the biggest baddest RED TYPE RULES I'd ever seen on a cache page - all prison stuff, with LOG DELETION THREATS!!!!! . It annoyed me. I posted a request to the cache page that the next finder please move my bug along, whether or not they could trade for it. I mentioned that the bug did not belong to the Prison owner, he hadn't paid for the tag and tracking. I offered to allow a smiley on a cache of mine should the cache owner delete their find. Cache owner deleted my note, and emailed me that my bug was "missing". Cute, huh? Of course, I realized that I am an Idiot.... ;-) that bug, by the way, reappeared in a cache in South Carolina about 2 and half years later (it's missing again, but who knows? maybe it will appear again someday). Very interesting story. There's a Geocoin Hotel about 50-75 miles from me (placed in 2007 or so) that still has some rather terse log deletion threats on the cache page. I have not found it, and no, I will not disclose it's location. Yes, I have not seen to many prisons of late either. I have noticed several where you can tell the cache owners softened their prison warden demands after strong suggestions via a reviewer note prior to publishing though. So perhaps a reviewer could check in here; are TB Prisons still being published? Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 So perhaps a reviewer could check in here; are TB Prisons still being published? Dude, the post above yours, by the guy who headbutts goats? Reviewer account (it takes headbutting goats to develop just the right mental frame for reviewing) . Not 100% spelled out, but I think the weight of his post = No TB Prisions. I'm reasonably certain that trading rules for anything, including trackables, would be an additional logging requirement, and unenforceable. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So perhaps a reviewer could check in here; are TB Prisons still being published? Dude, the post above yours, by the guy who headbutts goats? Reviewer account (it takes headbutting goats to develop just the right mental frame for reviewing) . Not 100% spelled out, but I think the weight of his post = No TB Prisions. I'm reasonably certain that trading rules for anything, including trackables, would be an additional logging requirement, and unenforceable. Oops. I guess I'd better unignore that account then. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 It seems this whole issue falls under the ALR (Additional Logging Requirement) umbrella, and is therefore moot. Take and leave TBs as you please, the cache owner has no authority over their movement. Your local reviewer can restore and lock any log deleted by the cache owner due to 'non-compliance' with their silly demands. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 I don't even know why this is debated anymore. Groundspeak has made it clear that TB hotels can not require equal traids or 2 to 1 traides etc. They also made it clear that if someone has that as a requirement that you SHOULD ignor it. Nuf said. Who'd debating? I don't see one bit of debating going on here (well, not yet. SBell11 and Rockin' Roddy haven't weighted in yet) This is simply a discussion at this point. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So perhaps a reviewer could check in here; are TB Prisons still being published? Dude, the post above yours, by the guy who headbutts goats? Reviewer account (it takes headbutting goats to develop just the right mental frame for reviewing) . Not 100% spelled out, but I think the weight of his post = No TB Prisions. I'm reasonably certain that trading rules for anything, including trackables, would be an additional logging requirement, and unenforceable. For some odd reason, this Florida cacher seems to be on far more solid ground now than when she wrote the log that got deleted. I wonder why that is. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who trades even for small furry animals. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (well, not yet. SBell11 and Rockin' Roddy haven't weighted in yet) Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 (well, not yet. SBell11 and Rockin' Roddy haven't weighted in yet) We could always go old school Mushtang vs. Coyote Red. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So perhaps a reviewer could check in here; are TB Prisons still being published? Dude, the post above yours, by the guy who headbutts goats? Reviewer account (it takes headbutting goats to develop just the right mental frame for reviewing) . Not 100% spelled out, but I think the weight of his post = No TB Prisions. I'm reasonably certain that trading rules for anything, including trackables, would be an additional logging requirement, and unenforceable. For some odd reason, this Florida cacher seems to be on far more solid ground now than when she wrote the log that got deleted. I wonder why that is. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who trades even for small furry animals. So are TB prisons still being published or what? Oh that's right, you're just a player who trades even for small furry animals. Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So perhaps a reviewer could check in here; are TB Prisons still being published? Dude, the post above yours, by the guy who headbutts goats? Reviewer account (it takes headbutting goats to develop just the right mental frame for reviewing) . Not 100% spelled out, but I think the weight of his post = No TB Prisions. I'm reasonably certain that trading rules for anything, including trackables, would be an additional logging requirement, and unenforceable. For some odd reason, this Florida cacher seems to be on far more solid ground now than when she wrote the log that got deleted. I wonder why that is. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who trades even for small furry animals. So are TB prisons still being published or what? Oh that's right, you're just a player who trades even for small furry animals. To answer the question... No, they should not be published. Prisons restrict movement and if a cache restricts the movement of a TB, then it would be considered a Prison. A TB Hotel, TB spa, TB Country Club, are all just names you put on a cache. Quote Link to comment
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