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Bringing a GPSr is a requirement to find a traditional?


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What's a couch potato log?

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement, just like the one that you need to bring a GPS receiver to find a traditional cache. Also this requirement has been in the Guidelines since July 2002:

There should be a question that only the visitor to that location will be able to answer. The questions should be difficult enough that it cannot be answered unless you physically visit the spot.

(Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20020811012522/...quirements.asp)

 

 

Bringing a GPS receiver to find a traditional is a requirement? I prefer to find caches without the use of a GPSr. Some of my logs were deleted and reinstated by Groundspeak over this issue and I was made to understand that finding the cache, signing the log book and entering the find online was the only requirement.

 

Thanks,

 

Emmanogoldfish - GPSless caching

I Love Interlopers - GPS equipped

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What's a couch potato log?

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement, just like the one that you need to bring a GPS receiver to find a traditional cache. Also this requirement has been in the Guidelines since July 2002:

There should be a question that only the visitor to that location will be able to answer. The questions should be difficult enough that it cannot be answered unless you physically visit the spot.

(Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20020811012522/...quirements.asp)

 

 

Bringing a GPS receiver to find a traditional is a requirement? I prefer to find caches without the use of a GPSr. Some of my logs were deleted and reinstated by Groundspeak over this issue and I was made to understand that finding the cache, signing the log book and entering the find online was the only requirement.

 

Thanks,

 

Emmanogoldfish - GPSless caching

I Love Interlopers - GPS equipped

 

It's been my understanding that you are required to use a GPSr when hiding a cache, but not when finding them. I've found one or two using just a satellite image and I know of at least one local cacher who made his first 200 or so finds before buying a GPSr. You do have to actually visit the cache and sign the log - or for a virtual, visit the site and find the information required. If you are doing that, you should be fine AFAIK.

Edited by rob3k
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What's a couch potato log?

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement, just like the one that you need to bring a GPS receiver to find a traditional cache. Also this requirement has been in the Guidelines since July 2002:

There should be a question that only the visitor to that location will be able to answer. The questions should be difficult enough that it cannot be answered unless you physically visit the spot.

(Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20020811012522/...quirements.asp)

 

 

Bringing a GPS receiver to find a traditional is a requirement? I prefer to find caches without the use of a GPSr. Some of my logs were deleted and reinstated by Groundspeak over this issue and I was made to understand that finding the cache, signing the log book and entering the find online was the only requirement.

 

Thanks,

 

Emmanogoldfish - GPSless caching

I Love Interlopers - GPS equipped

Yes, you are just as much as cheater as someone who logs virtual caches because they found the answers on the internet. Groundspeak did not think out what they had to say in that post on Friday. I will have more to say about this in the original thread later on.

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I'm puzzled by that as well, since I've seen TPTB say here repeatedly that the only requirement to using a GPSr is in the hiding of a geocache, and they have clearly stated repeatedly that it is not a requirement for finding one.

 

(my opinion, for what its worth (little or nothing, in this case) is that it is not GEO caching if you don't use a GPSr. The "geo" part of the word refers to use of a GPS receiver. But that's just me.)

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Gotta agree w/ the chadknower here.

 

I think technically, you don't need a GPS unit to get credit, all you need is to sign the log sheet. But the geo part of geocaching..... This is one of the cheapest hobbies to get into now-a-days, you can pick up a cheapie GPS unit for under 100 bucks, a used one definitely for under 100 bucks (USD). I'd say, if you like to find them w/out the GPS unit, kewl, but it's nice to have that option if you get to the middle of nowhere and can't find the cache from memory or from the satellite images from google.maps.... LOL

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Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement, just like the one that you need to bring a GPS receiver to find a traditional cache.

My apologies everyone and thanks for pointing it out.

 

Please disregard that bit in bold. That was a poor choice of words on my part. I'll strike it from the source document as well. The IMPORTANT bit is this:

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement

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The first few finds I made were without a gpsr -- locations that my daughter and I were very familiar with. In those days, we did not have the kind of mapping or satellite images that are available now, so we soon hit a wall. I purchased a gpsr and never looked back. But there are some caches where I have not had to turn the gpsr on to make a find -- the most recent was one on a trail that I have hiked innumerable times and knew the location from the cache title. I don't think turning on the gpsr would have made it any different.

 

One young man in my area found 87 caches before someone gave him a gpsr -- as a junior high school student, even an inexpensive unit on ebay posed a problem for him. When I finally met him on a trail, he told me that he had spent over an hour looking for some of the caches -- I don't think his initial finds were any less valid.

 

Some of my caches can certainly be found without a gpsr. I don't really care how people get there. I just want people to get out in the woods or go to an area I have found to be meaningful and have a good time.

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Ok... maybe I'm being overly simple in my view, but... as a prefix geo- is taken from a Greek word meaning "earth", usually in the sense of "ground or land". I'm new to geocaching and certainly no expert, but isn't the discovery of the sights, sounds, and even scents during the hunt for the cache (and even at the location itself) more of a treasure than the cache?

 

For me, the main issue is enjoying the "geo" and if I find the cache thats an added bonus. I don't think owning a GPSr should be required to enjoy the journey.

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Requirements are not reall allowed.

 

From the Guidelines:

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

If it is appropriate for your cache location or theme, you may ask the cache seeker to accomplish an optional and simple task, either close to the cache site (normally within 0.1 miles or 161 meters) or when writing their online log. For example, wear the goofy hat inside the cache container and upload a photograph. Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish optional tasks. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

 

This guideline change applies immediately to all logs written from April 4, 2009 and going forward. Older caches with "additional logging requirements" (ALRs) are not grandfathered under the older guideline. If you own an existing cache with mandatory additional logging requirements, we request that you:

 

Cease deleting logs based on additional logging requirements.

Review your own cache listing to see if the ALR can be made into an optional and simple task, or whether it must be removed altogether.

Adjust your geocache listing by editing the text then contact a reviewer to change the cache type, if appropriate.

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The title, "Bringing a GPSr is a requirement to find a traditional?" tickled my funny bone... I could bring my GPSr (as a "requirement" to find the cache) but leave it in my coat pocket. I have fulfilled the rules... finding the cache with a GPS. There is no mention that the GPS has to be functional--just that we have to find the cache with it. :P

Edited by meralgia
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The title, "Bringing a GPSr is a requirement to find a traditional?" tickled my funny bone... I could bring my GPSr (as a "requirement" to find the cache) but leave it in my coat pocket. I have fulfilled the rules... finding the cache with a GPS. There is no mention that the GPS has to be functional--just that we have to find the cache with it. :P
At least I'm not the only person who thought of that alternative...
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I think you are all reading too much into that sentence.

 

Particularly when you read this post by by MissJenn.

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement, just like the one that you need to bring a GPS receiver to find a traditional cache.

My apologies everyone and thanks for pointing it out.

 

Please disregard that bit in bold. That was a poor choice of words on my part. I'll strike it from the source document as well. The IMPORTANT bit is this:

 

Stating that you must visit the location is not necessary as this is an implicit requirement

 

Obvious to me that she just misspoke. It happens.

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I'm new to geocaching and certainly no expert, but isn't the discovery of the sights, sounds, and even scents during the hunt for the cache (and even at the location itself) more of a treasure than the cache?

 

For me, the main issue is enjoying the "geo" and if I find the cache thats an added bonus. I don't think owning a GPSr should be required to enjoy the journey.

 

Keep that attitude and you will go far in geocaching. Welcome to the sport. :P

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I think you guys need to look up the meaning of the word "implicit."

It's too bad the OP started a new topic for this so that people who are reading it now miss the context. It has nothing to do with ALR requirements. The issue came up when MissJenn posted, on behalf of Grounspeak, a topic on why couch potato logs on virtuals are not allowed. I suspect that at Groundspeak they discussed that fact that geocaching is "intended" to be an activity where one uses a GPS receiver to navigate to a location where you find something (in the case of a virtual cache that is something already at the site, in the case of a physical cache it is something hidden by the cache owner that contains at a minimum a physical log). They felt that there should be no need to explicitly state you needed to go to location to find the cache just as there should be no need to explicitly state you should have the option to use a GPS as an integral part of the search. Both of these guidelines were made explicit however some time ago. In re-iterating this in her post, MissJenn made and error and said that using a GPS was a requirement. The correct wording should be that the having the option to use a GPS as an integral part of the hunt is a requirement.

 

<personal opinion - and slightly off topic>

In my personal opinion, just as the use of GPS is only an option, I feel the ability to visit a cache should also be simply an option. Caches like Four Window that were meant to be done only as armchair logs clearly never met the intent of a virtual cache. Virtual cache guidelines were changed very early on to indicate there must be a location to visit with a specific target that can be located with GPS coordinates. For a long time, however, a virtual owner could allow people to log the virtual who had never visited the location but who had taken the time to find out about the location and send answers to the verification question to the cache owner. While I didn't think this was geocaching, I see no harm in allowing cache owners to do this. What happened was that armchair loggers would post finds on caches that cache owners never intended to be logged this way. So where it use to be implicit that there should be a place to go and find something for any cache listed on Geocaching.com, there is now a claim that implicitly the cache owner must only accept "Found It" logs only from people who actually made a visit. Others will of course argue that it is implicit (as well as explicitly stated in the guidelines) that cache owners delete all bogus logs. I've always though it was implicit that cache owners and not Groundspeak got to decide what was a bogus log. This clearly began to change with the new ALR guideline. Soon it will be implicit that cache owners have no control over what they allow or don't allow in logs and they they are subject to having their caches archived if they don't follow Groundspeak's guidelines for accepting or deleting online logs. </personal opinion>

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i have used a gps on almost all of my cache finds.

but i havent used it when its something like a LPC in a hight traffic parking lot or something like that

 

1. you dont really need it when you know its a lpc, or you know it's on just one island in parking lot.

 

2. i would look funny in a parking lot with a bright yellow thing in my hands lifting up lamp post skirts.

 

just my thoughts

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"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son." - Foghorn Leghorn

 

I'm perfectly aware that MissJenn addressed the original question. I wouldn't be surprised if meralgia were also aware of this. But I still think it's amusing to geocache sans GPS, and yet satisfy a (hypothetical) requirement to "bring a GPS receiver" by carrying an unused GPSr in one's pocket.

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I think Knowschad is on the right track with his interpretation of the quote; that it's the geo in geocache that is important.

 

At the end of the day, the geocaching.com site is primarily a listing service for providing the location of a physical object. As these objects are geocaches, and, IMO geo is short for geospacial or geographic information system. Both terms imply that the location is expressed in geospacial terms which means it's identified using a coordinate system.

 

At present, the best tool available for both capturing GIS coordinates and navigating to those coordinates is a GPS receiver. The fact that one can identify or find an object using those coordinates without using a GPS doesn't change the fact that the location of all geocaches should be expressed in terms of their lat/long values. Virtual caches locations which are identified without the use of lat/long coordinates, are not, by definition,geocaches.

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I find its kind of sad that some feel using a GPSr should be a requirement. A GPSr is a navigation tool much like a calculator is a tool for math. Just because it easier and faster to use the calculator doesn't mean is not important to know the old fashioned way of using your brain and a pen and paper or at least there is no value in knowing how.

 

I learned to navigate in the Boy Scouts then later in the Coast Guard. I was taught to never rely on technology. You always needed the basics to fall back on. I realize this is a sport and not life and death but I applaud anyone who wants to get out a map and compass and navigate to a Lat and Long with out the use of a GPSr....All that being said I use a GPSr to GC....but I know if I had to I could use a map and compass.

 

A find is a find...regardless of the method you found it.

 

That just my 2cents....

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i have used a gps on almost all of my cache finds.

but i havent used it when its something like a LPC in a hight traffic parking lot or something like that

 

1. you dont really need it when you know its a lpc, or you know it's on just one island in parking lot.

 

2. i would look funny in a parking lot with a bright yellow thing in my hands lifting up lamp post skirts.

 

just my thoughts

I very typically use my GPSr to locate LPCs. Generally, it stays in the Jeep, but it still serves to spot the correct pole. In fact, it is no different than when I find caches in the woods. The GPSr gets me to the general area. Once I am at ground zero, however, it is time to stop looking at the GPSr and start looking for the cache.

Edited by sbell111
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I find its kind of sad that some feel using a GPSr should be a requirement. A GPSr is a navigation tool much like a calculator is a tool for math. Just because it easier and faster to use the calculator doesn't mean is not important to know the old fashioned way of using your brain and a pen and paper or at least there is no value in knowing how.

 

I learned to navigate in the Boy Scouts then later in the Coast Guard. I was taught to never rely on technology. You always needed the basics to fall back on. I realize this is a sport and not life and death but I applaud anyone who wants to get out a map and compass and navigate to a Lat and Long with out the use of a GPSr....All that being said I use a GPSr to GC....but I know if I had to I could use a map and compass.

 

A find is a find...regardless of the method you found it.

 

That just my 2cents....

I also learned how to use a map and compass in teh Boy Scouts and USMC, however, even in the Marines, we punched in the coordinates and followed the arrow, rather than do it the old fashioned way. Knowing how to do it the hard way is useful if tech fails, but shouldn't ever replace the GPSr if there are not technical difficulties.

 

Further, I cache for fun, not to showcase my orienteering ability. Therefore, I will always choose to use a GPSr. (I bring two in case one dies. I also bring a compass into the woods, but have only used it when a puzzle cache required it. Even then, I can generally use my GPSr.)

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I'm puzzled by that as well, since I've seen TPTB say here repeatedly that the only requirement to using a GPSr is in the hiding of a geocache, and they have clearly stated repeatedly that it is not a requirement for finding one.

 

(my opinion, for what its worth (little or nothing, in this case) is that it is not GEO caching if you don't use a GPSr. The "geo" part of the word refers to use of a GPS receiver. But that's just me.)

 

Besides you and God, if you sign a log in a geocache, who will ever know how you got to that point on the surface of the Earth?

 

If you're atheist, you're covered all around. ;-)

Edited by Team Cotati
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I don't know of anyone who uses a GPS to find a cache. Your GPS unit only gets you to the area where the cache is supposed to be. Then you become the search engine. (In my case, me and a stick.)

 

Also, I don't use a GPS to hide a cache. That's usually a shovel. :D ...umm, strike that. It's usually forest debris, sticks, or other materials found in the area. If I hide my cache with a GPS I'm afraid someone might come along find the GPS, pick it up, and then my cache is exposed. Not good.

 

:blink:

 

:D

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I don't know of anyone who uses a GPS to find a cache. Your GPS unit only gets you to the area where the cache is supposed to be. Then you become the search engine. (In my case, me and a stick.)

 

Also, I don't use a GPS to hide a cache. That's usually a shovel. :D ...umm, strike that. It's usually forest debris, sticks, or other materials found in the area. If I hide my cache with a GPS I'm afraid someone might come along find the GPS, pick it up, and then my cache is exposed. Not good.

 

:D

 

:D

:blink:

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...

Bringing a GPS receiver to find a traditional is a requirement?...

 

Uh, Nope. Being required to bring a GPS is an Additional Logging Requirment which is now banned from this site. This site requries that a GPS can be used to find a cache (they call it integral to the cache or something like that) but ideally they would back off if you can at least nominally used a GPS if you choose and ignore then entirly if you don't.

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