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Have you ever appealed a reviewer's decision?


Boneman65

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So will someone answer this question........When you look at the distance between two caches, do you look as the crow flies or the actual distance one has to go to get to the two caches? Never did get a reply from my fantastic reviewer to that question.

 

I'm pretty sure that they're using the linear distance on a plane to the two sites. It's said that there is flexibility for things like natural barriers etc but I've yet to see, based on the topics here (which of course could just be representative of the not successful applications), a successful change.

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So will someone answer this question........When you look at the distance between two caches, do you look as the crow flies or the actual distance one has to go to get to the two caches? Never did get a reply from my fantastic reviewer to that question.

 

american-crow.jpg

 

(your GPS distance)

Edited by knowschad
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So will someone answer this question........When you look at the distance between two caches, do you look as the crow flies or the actual distance one has to go to get to the two caches? Never did get a reply from my fantastic reviewer to that question.

The world is flat. At least it is when placing a cache. All measurements are straight line.

 

Load into your GPS receiver the nearest caches to your proposed new location. Go to that proposed location and look at your GPS. Does it say 527 feet or less? You have a problem. Does it say .10 miles or more? Good to go. Alternately plug the coordinates into this page and see what pops up.

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So will someone answer this question........When you look at the distance between two caches, do you look as the crow flies or the actual distance one has to go to get to the two caches? Never did get a reply from my fantastic reviewer to that question.

 

american-crow.jpg

 

(your GPS distance)

 

:mad: You couldn't have found a picture of a crow in flight?

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I believe that a reviewer should at least know the area he is reviewing. Then one would know that there is a steep ridge of about 6 ft plus a 7ft chain link fence between the two sites. To walk around the way one would take would have been well over the 528. Can I safely assume that one digit equals one foot?

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I guess I will never get a decent answer so I'll just hide my caches and send out emails and word of mouth. Most likely be easier that way.

 

If you want to take your toys and go home that's okay. Your question about digits was a bit vague and sparked the glib response you saw. An embankment and chain link fence isn't (again based on seeing a lot of topics like this) considered a sufficient barrier to relax the cache saturation guideline. 528 Feet is as the crow flies and unless there is something like a mile high wall or something between, that seems pretty firm. It's really a pretty small distance so I hope that you can, instead of starting your ad hoc geocaching friend network, you can get this worked out with your reviewer and continue to enjoy the community and other parts of the caching experience that, to me, are quite important!

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A) A reviewer is not all knowing. He does not know every square foot of the thousands of square miles he reviews for.

 

2) How much clearer an answer do you need? 528 feet from any other cache. Straight line not walking around the bend in the trail.

 

Sheesh!

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Then answer this simple question. Does .528 equal 528 ft? That's all I'm asking of you people for pete's sake. You are suppose to be helping one enjoy the sport not heckle the person out of it.

 

.528 depends on the unit at the end. Let's assume it's miles. One mile is 5,280 feet. .528 would equal 2,788 feet whereas 528 feet would equal exactly 0.10 miles... the distance described in the guidelines. Good luck.

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I believe that a reviewer should at least know the area he is reviewing. Then one would know that there is a steep ridge of about 6 ft plus a 7ft chain link fence between the two sites.

That would only take a few hundred thousand reviewers.

 

To walk around the way one would take would have been well over the 528. Can I safely assume that one digit equals one foot?

No, you can't. It doesn't work that way. Besides, reviewers use straight-line measurements. That way, everyone's on the same page, and you can use your GPS in the field to check for proximity issues.

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An embankment and chain link fence isn't (again based on seeing a lot of topics like this) considered a sufficient barrier to relax the cache saturation guideline. 528 Feet is as the crow flies and unless there is something like a mile high wall or something between, that seems pretty firm.

 

Could have been there where the period, usually denoting the end of a sentence, was misconstrued to be a decimal.... that's the best guess I've got, gof1...

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Does .528 equal 528 ft?

 

To complicate matters even more, I read this as .528 in the decimal format that is common on the site, in which case the answer would be decidedly no. Not only a no, but it would also depend on the latitude you're at and which direction you're measuring :mad:

 

Edit...oops, I see I'm not fast enough.

 

Here's the distance in the decimal format (just choosing a random Left Coast Longitude for the example)

 

N44 05.000 W120 37.000 <---from

N44 05.528 W120 37.000 0.61 mi

 

If you are using that sort of method in calculating space between your cache placement and nearby ones, it's hard to imagine you having any trouble getting them Published.

Edited by Touchstone
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I guess I will never get a decent answer so I'll just hide my caches and send out emails and word of mouth. Most likely be easier that way.

 

You have received numerous decent answers. For some reason, you don't seem to want to understand that your cache is too close to another. Your reviewer does not need to know every nuance of your territory to understand that. I am very confused as to why you fail to understand this, to be totally honest with you.

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

You really can't do this in a simple fashion by subtraction. Coordinates vary in the amount of space they describe depending on where you are on the earth because the Earth is a sphere, not a flat plane.

 

My strong recommendation is that you do as I do and use Google Earth to get the actual measure between two coordinates. They have a ruler function that lets you drag a line from one place to another and gives you the distance in feet or meters (your choice). I put in my two coordinates and then drag my ruler to get a sense of the distance.

 

Once I've found something that looks promising I take my GPS to the spot and ask it to show me all nearby caches. It always gives me the distance to the nearest ones. If it is less than .1 mile (or 528 feet) I pout for a while and stalk around and then go home to try again.

 

Carolyn

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

Okay, responding to a post with rudeness and then ignorance after it's been clearly explained to you will get you nowhere.

 

44° 05.528 is 44 degrees and 05.528 minutes. The degree system of coordinates is based on the idea that the earth is 360 degrees around at the equator. Each degree is subdivided into minutes (60 minutes per degree) and seconds (60 seconds per minute). The format you mentioned is degrees and decimal minutes (edit: changed after The Jester kindly pointed out my error), a format that ignores the seconds and expresses the fractional part of the minute in a decimal format. (thanks again Jester!) The case of Latitude is constant as far as the feet/decimal calculation goes since the lines of longitude (going N/S in loops meeting at the poles). The lines of longitude are different and depend completely on latitude. Longitude runs around the earth in the E/W direction and are parallel. At the equator, the length of a line of latitude is the circumference of the earth; at the poles, the length of the line approaches zero. Note how you can walk around the world latitude-wise near the pole in seconds whereas at the equator (latitude zero) it wold take quite a while.

 

Any more info, please look at the wiki site on latitude and longitude. Good luck and please do a little homework before coming in and hurling insults.

 

Edited to fix my error.

Edited by mrbort
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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

Okay, responding to a post with rudeness and then ignorance after it's been clearly explained to you will get you nowhere.

 

44.588 is .588 of a degree. The degree system of coordinates is based on the idea that the earth is 360 degrees around at the equator. Each degree is subdivided into minutes (60 minutes per degree) and seconds (60 seconds per minute). The format you mentioned is decimal degrees, a format that ignores minutes and seconds and expresses the fractional part of the degree in a decimal format. The case of Latitude is constant as far as the feet/decimal calculation goes since the lines of longitude (going N/S in loops meeting at the poles). The lines of longitude are different and depend completely on latitude. Longitude runs around the earth in the E/W direction and are parallel. At the equator, the length of a line of latitude is the circumference of the earth; at the poles, the length of the line approaches zero. Note how you can walk around the world latitude-wise near the pole in seconds whereas at the equator (latitude zero) it wold take quite a while.

 

Any more info, please look at the wiki site on latitude and longitude. Good luck and please do a little homework before coming in and hurling insults.

 

Have I already mentioned that you're pretty smart for a dog? You should be wearing glasses.

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

While others have now answered this question I will point out that it wasn't the question you had asked to begin with. That is why no one was answering it.

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Okay, responding to a post with rudeness and then ignorance after it's been clearly explained to you will get you nowhere.

 

44.588 is .588 of a degree. The degree system of coordinates is based on the idea that the earth is 360 degrees around at the equator. Each degree is subdivided into minutes (60 minutes per degree) and seconds (60 seconds per minute). The format you mentioned is decimal degrees, a format that ignores minutes and seconds and expresses the fractional part of the degree in a decimal format. The case of Latitude is constant as far as the feet/decimal calculation goes since the lines of longitude (going N/S in loops meeting at the poles). The lines of longitude are different and depend completely on latitude. Longitude runs around the earth in the E/W direction and are parallel. At the equator, the length of a line of latitude is the circumference of the earth; at the poles, the length of the line approaches zero. Note how you can walk around the world latitude-wise near the pole in seconds whereas at the equator (latitude zero) it wold take quite a while.

 

Any more info, please look at the wiki site on latitude and longitude. Good luck and please do a little homework before coming in and hurling insults.

 

Have I already mentioned that you're pretty smart for a dog? You should be wearing glasses.

 

haha, I would like to think I look distinguished with my nice gray face. Don't need the glasses :mad: In reality, I did my PhD research on GPS theory so I can tend to go on and on... doesn't make me smart... just mildly educated!

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

No, if your only considering latitude it is approximately 3,207 feet. But you don't say what the longitude is, so we can not tell you how far apart the measurements are. Please understand that the co-ordinates are HDD MM.mmm, so your dealing with degree measurements. If you wish to deal in feet (actually meters) as your measurement then you will need to deal with UTM co-ordinates.

 

As to the question of how far away is another point from where your standing you need to give both the latitude and longitude. At the equator a difference of 0.001 degree of longitude is approximately six feet while at the north or south pole that same difference is zero.

 

To figure out distance given two co-ordinates you can use fizzycalc.

 

Jim

Edited by jholly
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Have I already mentioned that you're pretty smart for a dog? You should be wearing glasses.

 

No, no, no! Then I would be unable to tell the two of you apart. I have it set up now that mrbort is the sweet faced dog and knowschad is the smart dog with glasses. (I shall be ever so disappointed if I meet you and it turns out that one of you is a human pretending to be a dog like the reverse of that famous New Yorker cartoon.) If you both wear glasses I shall be mystified.

 

Carolyn

Edited by Steve&GeoCarolyn
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Have I already mentioned that you're pretty smart for a dog? You should be wearing glasses.

 

No, no, no! Then I would be unable to tell the two of you apart. I have it set up now that mrbort is the sweet faced dog and knowschad is the smart dog with glasses. (I shall be ever so disappointed if I meet you and it turns out that one of you is a human pretending to be a dog like the reverse of that famous New Yorker cartoon.) If you both wear glasses I shall be mystified.

 

Carolyn

 

I assure you that I'm a golden retriever in real life... at least in personality! I wear glasses but only barely (right lens is cosmetic) so I can take them off for my driver's license (which I endured the other day).

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Wow, a lot of smart-donkey replies to acceptable questions.

 

I will try to answer quickly.

 

The reviewers judge the distance as the crow flies. If there is a significant permanant barrier then they "might" take you off of the crow flies criteria. Might means "not likely".

 

As for the digits on the GPS, no each .001 is not a foot. The actual distance varies depending on where you are and I think the specifics were given above.

 

Here, near me, we have significant cliffs with trails above and below. In some areas it is quite possible for a cache to be 100 linear feet away from another but more than 528 vertical feet. In those instances, the cache reviewer might let you have them closer (linear speaking) than 528 feet.

 

No matter what, you have to let the reviewer decide, or you could just put the cache on another listing site.

 

I have, as a matter of fact, found 2 caches that were 16 feet apart. One was a geocaching cache and the other was a terracaching cache.

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Wow, a lot of smart-donkey replies to acceptable questions.

 

I will try to answer quickly.

 

The reviewers judge the distance as the crow flies. If there is a significant permanant barrier then they "might" take you off of the crow flies criteria. Might means "not likely".

 

As for the digits on the GPS, no each .001 is not a foot. The actual distance varies depending on where you are and I think the specifics were given above.

 

Here, near me, we have significant cliffs with trails above and below. In some areas it is quite possible for a cache to be 100 linear feet away from another but more than 528 vertical feet. In those instances, the cache reviewer might let you have them closer (linear speaking) than 528 feet.

 

No matter what, you have to let the reviewer decide, or you could just put the cache on another listing site.

 

I have, as a matter of fact, found 2 caches that were 16 feet apart. One was a geocaching cache and the other was a terracaching cache.

 

That was a great job of parroting the smart donkey replies.

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I believe that a reviewer should at least know the area he is reviewing. Then one would know that there is a steep ridge of about 6 ft plus a 7ft chain link fence between the two sites. To walk around the way one would take would have been well over the 528. Can I safely assume that one digit equals one foot?

As the former doorknob reviewer for your state, I figured I would look and see what was going on. I see three caches that have not been listed. I am guessing it isn't the cache that was disabled because you are too close to a RR track. I am also guessing that it isn't the cache that is disabled because it is too close to a school. The third one has a proximity issue of 316 feet. I figure that is it.

 

As I have recently said in another forum, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

MN-cache.jpg

 

The dots are roughly placed, but close enough. This site takes the two coordinates and does a straight line calculation between the two points. If you go to the bottom of your hidden cache and click the "...all nearby caches" link, you will see the nearby cache and that it is 316 feet away. It is a simple math calculation that is always right. Looking at the image above, the distance doesn't surprise me or look incorrect. I think I see the fence, but it ends on the right.

 

I gotta' address the "steep ridge of about 6 ft" part. I can stand on a milk crate and see over that. But looking at the above image... are you kidding me? Is the fence protecting people from certain death from falling off of that cliff? I've climbed sheer face boulders with some much bigger drops beyond them than anything in this park and probably in that city as a whole. I didn't climb what you see to the left of me below, but I sure did climb what you see on the right... several times. Here is something with a bit more terrain than I see in the picture above.

 

gregduckhawk.jpg

 

This is a self portrait done with a timer. I ran over from the camera in 10 seconds.

 

Move your cache. You are not going to get another cache in this little park.

 

My rating for this problem?

meyawn.jpg

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Wow, a lot of smart-donkey replies to acceptable questions.

 

I will try to answer quickly.

 

The reviewers judge the distance as the crow flies. If there is a significant permanant barrier then they "might" take you off of the crow flies criteria. Might means "not likely".

 

As for the digits on the GPS, no each .001 is not a foot. The actual distance varies depending on where you are and I think the specifics were given above.

 

Here, near me, we have significant cliffs with trails above and below. In some areas it is quite possible for a cache to be 100 linear feet away from another but more than 528 vertical feet. In those instances, the cache reviewer might let you have them closer (linear speaking) than 528 feet.

 

No matter what, you have to let the reviewer decide, or you could just put the cache on another listing site.

 

I have, as a matter of fact, found 2 caches that were 16 feet apart. One was a geocaching cache and the other was a terracaching cache.

 

 

Where are the terracaches located?

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Have I already mentioned that you're pretty smart for a dog? You should be wearing glasses.

 

No, no, no! Then I would be unable to tell the two of you apart. I have it set up now that mrbort is the sweet faced dog and knowschad is the smart dog with glasses. (I shall be ever so disappointed if I meet you and it turns out that one of you is a human pretending to be a dog like the reverse of that famous New Yorker cartoon.) If you both wear glasses I shall be mystified.

 

Carolyn

 

I assure you that I'm a golden retriever in real life... at least in personality! I wear glasses but only barely (right lens is cosmetic) so I can take them off for my driver's license (which I endured the other day).

Boy, leave the forums for an evening meeting and come back to find all of this good stuff. I must say that I am a bit offended at not being included in the dog discussion. I am fairly certain the Chad pal used the glasses in his avatar simply as a cheap way to garner attention and simpathy. Mr. Borg, er mrbort is clearly way smarter than me but does seem to be a bit long in the tooth, if you know what I mean. I, on another hand, am clearly a vigorous pup in great shape, no need for glasses, and in posession of a GPS. What more could you want? I tell you, I love fiction. :mad:

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

A difference of 0.001 in the minutes of latitude ("N" or "S") represents 1.852 metres, which is just over six feet. So a difference of 0.100 in the minutes of latitude with the next cache gives you 600 feet and you're "safe" from proximity issues.

 

A difference of 0.001 in the minutes of longitude ("E" or "W") represents 1.852 metres, multiplied by the cosine of the current latitude. The cosine is about 0.72 in Minnesota and 0.87 in Texas, so 0.001 longitude is about 4.5 feet in St. Paul and 5.3 feet in San Antonio. So a difference of 0.100 in the minutes of longitude is not quite "safe" where you are, but it is in southern Texas. No fair! Something to do with Davy Crockett, I suppose.

 

Of course, you probably have a difference in both the latitude and longitude values. So to work out the overall distance, some Greek guy tells us that you have to do this:

- calculate the difference in latitude, in feet

- multiply that by itself

- calculate the difference in longitude, in feet

- multiply that by itself

- add them together

- find the "square root" button on your calculator (it's usually the cleanest one, because there's not much else use for it; calculator makers put it on there because historically it took a lot of computing power to calculate square roots and they were being macho about it, not because you actually need it to balance your bank account) and hit that.

(You should really do a great circle calculation, but for the distances you're talking about here, the result will be the same to within the diameter of a doorknob. :mad:)

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As my reviewer can admit, I did move my cache. It was after much looking and moving and wondering because I don't know how the reviewers measure the distance that I placed it.

 

Probably the best way to make sure you're not too close to other caches is to simply load your GPSr up with all the caches in that area. When you find a spot, check your GPSr for the next nearest cache. If that distance is less than 528 feel (0.1 mile) then you have a problem. If not, you should be good to go (providing you're good on other guideline issues)

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Oh I forgot to mention. I don't trust Google Earth to be the Bible for distance. I entered my coordinates from my GPS to see where my house is.......you guessed it........about a block off.

Google Earth is reasonably OK for distance, if you're measuring between two points on Google Earth.

 

You're more likely to have a problem comparing a pair of coordinates from GE with a pair of coordinates which you've taken in the field on your GPSr. Between the inaccuracies of GE's model and the number of pixels occupied by the point of your cursor, it's very easy to be 100 feet or more out.

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Then answer this simple question. Does .528 equal 528 ft? That's all I'm asking of you people for pete's sake. You are suppose to be helping one enjoy the sport not heckle the person out of it.

 

No, on your GPSr, 528ft equals .10 .... or so I'm assuming, since most of us are not sure what you mean by .528 - unless you refer to the coordinates (degree decimal minutes D MM.MMM), in which case .528 difference would be:

 

Latitude: 3, 206 feet.

Longitude: 1,951 feet.

 

I think folks aren't deliberately trying to heckle, they just are not understanding your question. Hope this helps!

 

edit: I forgot to mention, I doubt the "doorknob" comment was helping your cause for a serious answer in addition to the misunderstanding....

Edited by Jeep_Dog
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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

Okay, responding to a post with rudeness and then ignorance after it's been clearly explained to you will get you nowhere.

 

44.588 is .588 of a degree. The degree system of coordinates is based on the idea that the earth is 360 degrees around at the equator. Each degree is subdivided into minutes (60 minutes per degree) and seconds (60 seconds per minute). The format you mentioned is decimal degrees, a format that ignores minutes and seconds and expresses the fractional part of the degree in a decimal format. The case of Latitude is constant as far as the feet/decimal calculation goes since the lines of longitude (going N/S in loops meeting at the poles). The lines of longitude are different and depend completely on latitude. Longitude runs around the earth in the E/W direction and are parallel. At the equator, the length of a line of latitude is the circumference of the earth; at the poles, the length of the line approaches zero. Note how you can walk around the world latitude-wise near the pole in seconds whereas at the equator (latitude zero) it wold take quite a while.

 

Any more info, please look at the wiki site on latitude and longitude. Good luck and please do a little homework before coming in and hurling insults.

You might want to rethink the glasses idea :mad: - the referenced format (bold above) is actually decimal minutes, not decimal degrees. It ignores the seconds (only) and express them as a decimal componant of the minutes (the 05.xxx in the example).

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

Okay, responding to a post with rudeness and then ignorance after it's been clearly explained to you will get you nowhere.

 

44.588 is .588 of a degree. The degree system of coordinates is based on the idea that the earth is 360 degrees around at the equator. Each degree is subdivided into minutes (60 minutes per degree) and seconds (60 seconds per minute). The format you mentioned is decimal degrees, a format that ignores minutes and seconds and expresses the fractional part of the degree in a decimal format. The case of Latitude is constant as far as the feet/decimal calculation goes since the lines of longitude (going N/S in loops meeting at the poles). The lines of longitude are different and depend completely on latitude. Longitude runs around the earth in the E/W direction and are parallel. At the equator, the length of a line of latitude is the circumference of the earth; at the poles, the length of the line approaches zero. Note how you can walk around the world latitude-wise near the pole in seconds whereas at the equator (latitude zero) it wold take quite a while.

 

Any more info, please look at the wiki site on latitude and longitude. Good luck and please do a little homework before coming in and hurling insults.

You might want to rethink the glasses idea :mad: - the referenced format (bold above) is actually decimal minutes, not decimal degrees. It ignores the seconds (only) and express them as a decimal componant of the minutes (the 05.xxx in the example).

 

Got my glasses on now.... you're 100% right :ph34r: My bad!

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I take it you don't read coordinates. 44 degrees 05.000 N. Is 44 degrees 05.528 N 528 ft apart?

 

Okay, responding to a post with rudeness and then ignorance after it's been clearly explained to you will get you nowhere.

 

44.588 is .588 of a degree. The degree system of coordinates is based on the idea that the earth is 360 degrees around at the equator. Each degree is subdivided into minutes (60 minutes per degree) and seconds (60 seconds per minute). The format you mentioned is decimal degrees, a format that ignores minutes and seconds and expresses the fractional part of the degree in a decimal format. The case of Latitude is constant as far as the feet/decimal calculation goes since the lines of longitude (going N/S in loops meeting at the poles). The lines of longitude are different and depend completely on latitude. Longitude runs around the earth in the E/W direction and are parallel. At the equator, the length of a line of latitude is the circumference of the earth; at the poles, the length of the line approaches zero. Note how you can walk around the world latitude-wise near the pole in seconds whereas at the equator (latitude zero) it wold take quite a while.

 

Any more info, please look at the wiki site on latitude and longitude. Good luck and please do a little homework before coming in and hurling insults.

You might want to rethink the glasses idea :mad: - the referenced format (bold above) is actually decimal minutes, not decimal degrees. It ignores the seconds (only) and express them as a decimal componant of the minutes (the 05.xxx in the example).

 

right, right.

 

So, to answer jacknsue's question,

 

.528 = Latitude: 3,206 feet.

 

So, .528 is more than 528 feet.

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Boy, leave the forums for an evening meeting and come back to find all of this good stuff. I must say that I am a bit offended at not being included in the dog discussion. I am fairly certain the Chad pal used the glasses in his avatar simply as a cheap way to garner attention and simpathy. Mr. Borg, er mrbort is clearly way smarter than me but does seem to be a bit long in the tooth, if you know what I mean. I, on another hand, am clearly a vigorous pup in great shape, no need for glasses, and in posession of a GPS. What more could you want? I tell you, I love fiction. :ph34r:

 

Well, as long as I remain the happiest pup, y'all can debate amongst yourselves for the "smartest" bit. It's all moot anyhow, what with an ubergenius in our midst and all.... :mad:

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