+Jackalgirl Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think that I might be writing this way past the point of its usefulness, but here's a suggestion: how about making up a completely new set of villians with their own semi-fascist symbol? You could make it /partly/ Nazi (like the extremely odd villians in Hellboy) or you could make up something entirely new. You could, say, create a secret society of evildoers bent on creating a rift into this world for Lovecraftian monsters (I know, I know, done a million times over, but still fun) or something like that. Or maybe something silly, like they're bent on kidnapping Signal. Base it on historical events, perhaps, to give it a reality flavor, or tie it into some kind of alternate history. Quote Link to comment
+bittsen Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I just want to point out to those who claimed the Swastika has been around for ages that it hasn't. Yes, the Swastika is a symbol that has been around for a long time but the OP was specificaly asking about a SWASTIKA, not an indian symbol. ~just to split hairs~ Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think that I might be writing this way past the point of its usefulness, but here's a suggestion: how about making up a completely new set of villians with their own semi-fascist symbol? You could make it /partly/ Nazi (like the extremely odd villians in Hellboy) or you could make up something entirely new. You could, say, create a secret society of evildoers bent on creating a rift into this world for Lovecraftian monsters (I know, I know, done a million times over, but still fun) or something like that. Or maybe something silly, like they're bent on kidnapping Signal. Base it on historical events, perhaps, to give it a reality flavor, or tie it into some kind of alternate history. From Get Smart, it was KAOS: From Man From U.N.C.L.E., it was THRUSH: Quote Link to comment
+scorpio_dark Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I just want to point out to those who claimed the Swastika has been around for ages that it hasn't. Yes, the Swastika is a symbol that has been around for a long time but the OP was specificaly asking about a SWASTIKA, not an indian symbol. ~just to split hairs~ True indeed. I thought that whether it was ages or not the point still is true that it was around as a swastika before hitler. According to that other cache that was posted for instance: We did a multi cache in Dublin a few months back which is based around the swastika design. It was a very interesting, well-thought out cache which led us around some nice parts of the city. There's also an interesting comment from a German cacher who found it on 10th August... "Ancient symbol" cache. MrsB Not that this has any bearing on the topic at hand. . . so I may delete in a minute. Quote Link to comment
+Printess Caroline Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I have thought quite a bit about the powerful associations evoked by the swastika because my family has a cabin in the Adirondacks that was named "Swastika". It was named by my great-grandparents before WWII because of the swastika's Native American connection. During the war, the family changed the name to "Rustica", but afterwards, they again called it by its original name. My father thought it was all silly and refused the idea that the cabin should be called anything but Swastika. After all, it wasn't named for that swastika, and to him, the Nazis did not own the symbol, they stole it. He even went so far as to have swastikas designed into our porch railings. While the name did not offend my brothers and me because we appreciated its true history, we did change the name when we inherited it. We hated explaining the name to shocked friends and felt that the name did not fit our beloved cabin because it conjured such awful associations in others. Why ruin a good thing with a bad association? I'm glad that you decided against using the swastika on your cache. As a visual person, I wonder at your choice to replace it with the geocaching symbol, though. By doing so, it seems you are equating geocaching with the Nazi movement. I'm pretty sure that was not your intent. Quote Link to comment
+Printess Caroline Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I think that I might be writing this way past the point of its usefulness, but here's a suggestion: how about making up a completely new set of villians with their own semi-fascist symbol? You could make it /partly/ Nazi (like the extremely odd villians in Hellboy) or you could make up something entirely new. You could, say, create a secret society of evildoers bent on creating a rift into this world for Lovecraftian monsters (I know, I know, done a million times over, but still fun) or something like that. Or maybe something silly, like they're bent on kidnapping Signal. Base it on historical events, perhaps, to give it a reality flavor, or tie it into some kind of alternate history. From Get Smart, it was KAOS: From Man From U.N.C.L.E., it was THRUSH: I like these suggestions! I think it would make a very creative and fun cache! Quote Link to comment
+ArtieD Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 I'm glad that you decided against using the swastika on your cache. As a visual person, I wonder at your choice to replace it with the geocaching symbol, though. By doing so, it seems you are equating geocaching with the Nazi movement. I'm pretty sure that was not your intent. Thank you. As for the geocaching symbol, you're right that it is not my intent...it is in no way, shape nor form that my inclusion of that symbol means that geocaching is equivalent to the original symbol. I just used it as a substitution, nothing more. As a mattter of fact, I finished the final container and I am going to post it up to show the final result. As you can see, the eagle element is mere background to the main elements of the design. I was going for a militaryish look. Oh yeah...don't bother looking up the GC number...it hasn't been published yet. I don't mind showing off the container. You're going to have to work hard to get to it...and it's going to be locked inside another, much plainer container...that one you will not see. Quote Link to comment
+mertat Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Does the FTF get the kitty cat? (Very cool container, BTW.) Edited August 21, 2009 by mertat Quote Link to comment
+mrbort Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Does the FTF get the kitty cat? (Very cool container, BTW.) I think it's the other way round Agreed: nice work! Quote Link to comment
GreenLantern5000 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I have thought quite a bit about the powerful associations evoked by the swastika because my family has a cabin in the Adirondacks that was named "Swastika". It was named by my great-grandparents before WWII because of the swastika's Native American connection. During the war, the family changed the name to "Rustica", but afterwards, they again called it by its original name. My father thought it was all silly and refused the idea that the cabin should be called anything but Swastika. After all, it wasn't named for that swastika, and to him, the Nazis did not own the symbol, they stole it. He even went so far as to have swastikas designed into our porch railings. While the name did not offend my brothers and me because we appreciated its true history, we did change the name when we inherited it. We hated explaining the name to shocked friends and felt that the name did not fit our beloved cabin because it conjured such awful associations in others. Why ruin a good thing with a bad association? I'm glad that you decided against using the swastika on your cache. As a visual person, I wonder at your choice to replace it with the geocaching symbol, though. By doing so, it seems you are equating geocaching with the Nazi movement. I'm pretty sure that was not your intent. Hippies took the "peace" sign from the military, it used to mean V for Victory...... Gays took the rainbow and now people see rainbow colors and immediately think gays...... Obviously not the same connotation as the swastika..... but similar.... One group of people adopts a symbol, phrase or gesture and give it their own meaning. I still don't see a problem w/ using a Nazi symbol on a cache w/ that theme...... If it were me, I'd probably use the Cobra symbol from G.I. Joe.... But that's just me... I might also use the Decepticon symbol from Transformers.... Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 What we typically refer to as a swastika is a symbol that was widely used long before Adolph and his boys came along. They simply co-opted it for their own purposes. I certainly would not be offended by your use of symbols that were in keeping with the theme of the cache. Of course someone will cry that your cache has an agenda and should be disallowed. Sums it up for me. Anymore I see that symbol and think of the WW II games I play and that's the army with the best equipment. Quote Link to comment
+Castle Mischief Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I still don't see a problem w/ using a Nazi symbol on a cache w/ that theme...... Would you have an issue with a Black Panther's themed cache with their symbol on it? Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I still don't see a problem w/ using a Nazi symbol on a cache w/ that theme...... Would you have an issue with a Black Panther's themed cache with their symbol on it? They made money making movies using both themes. Quote Link to comment
+Castle Mischief Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) I still don't see a problem w/ using a Nazi symbol on a cache w/ that theme...... Would you have an issue with a Black Panther's themed cache with their symbol on it? They made money making movies using both themes. I don't see your point. EDIT: I guess that clears the way for a porn inspired cache in your mind? Edited August 21, 2009 by Castle Mischief Quote Link to comment
+Printess Caroline Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Very nice! It does have the military look that you were striving for. Also, the white print over the symbol does a lot to visually minimize its importance. I don't think that anyone would be offended by this. Nicely done! I'll keep a look out for this one the next time that I am able to return to my home state, Missouri. (Pretty kitty! ) Quote Link to comment
+Steve&GeoCarolyn Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Oh yeah...don't bother looking up the GC number...it hasn't been published yet. I don't mind showing off the container. You're going to have to work hard to get to it...and it's going to be locked inside another, much plainer container...that one you will not see. Very nice! I think you'll be fine. Carolyn Quote Link to comment
+Castle Mischief Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I'm glad that you decided against using the swastika on your cache. As a visual person, I wonder at your choice to replace it with the geocaching symbol, though. By doing so, it seems you are equating geocaching with the Nazi movement. I'm pretty sure that was not your intent. Thank you. As for the geocaching symbol, you're right that it is not my intent...it is in no way, shape nor form that my inclusion of that symbol means that geocaching is equivalent to the original symbol. I just used it as a substitution, nothing more. As a mattter of fact, I finished the final container and I am going to post it up to show the final result. As you can see, the eagle element is mere background to the main elements of the design. I was going for a militaryish look. Oh yeah...don't bother looking up the GC number...it hasn't been published yet. I don't mind showing off the container. You're going to have to work hard to get to it...and it's going to be locked inside another, much plainer container...that one you will not see. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Miz...zcacheboxzz.jpg Hey, nice job on the container. I think you've reached a good balance and have avoided some potential angst and drama. Did you ever contact your reviewer? Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I still don't see a problem w/ using a Nazi symbol on a cache w/ that theme...... Would you have an issue with a Black Panther's themed cache with their symbol on it? They made money making movies using both themes. I don't see your point. EDIT: I guess that clears the way for a porn inspired cache in your mind? There is room for a lot of stories in the world. My wife just watched Julia Julia which was apparently ispired by the famouse cook. I'm not sure what her symbol would be on a cache but if the cache is part of a story line to entertain (which is different than a blatant agenda which c and sometimes does get in the way of a good story) why not? Quote Link to comment
+Castle Mischief Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) I still don't see a problem w/ using a Nazi symbol on a cache w/ that theme...... Would you have an issue with a Black Panther's themed cache with their symbol on it? They made money making movies using both themes. I don't see your point. EDIT: I guess that clears the way for a porn inspired cache in your mind? There is room for a lot of stories in the world. My wife just watched Julia Julia which was apparently ispired by the famouse cook. I'm not sure what her symbol would be on a cache but if the cache is part of a story line to entertain (which is different than a blatant agenda which c and sometimes does get in the way of a good story) why not? I don't think Julia Child sent anybody's grandparents to the gas chambers or tried to invade Europe. I don't think she was in any porn flicks either. Edited August 21, 2009 by Castle Mischief Quote Link to comment
toczygroszek Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I'm Polish, and I know much about Nazis camps and everything about it. Poland never really stand up after German invasion in 1939, our economy is still low and this is one of reasons I'm now in other country. But please, stop blame swastika, because this old and good symbol was profane by German nazis. You can see slavic svastika in my logo, and you can visit my cache: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7bf19&log=y But please, fight against hate, nazism, racism etc. and don't fight with religious symbols. I don't like when people link swastika only to Hitler, this is bad. But this is historical fact, and is no point ignore that Hitler was using swastika. Try listen what people say, not what signs are around them. Thanks. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I don't think Julia Child sent anybody's grandparents to the gas chambers or tried to invade Europe. I don't think Arthur & Trillian's cool new puzzle cache is likely to send anybody's grandparents to the gas chambers, or to invade Europe. Instead, it sounds like a fun cache to me. Quote Link to comment
+OKH Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I don't think Julia Child sent anybody's grandparents to the gas chambers or tried to invade Europe. I don't think she was in any porn flicks either. Considering she worked for the OSS, she may have very well prevented it. Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I thought this article on the swastika symbol was interesting: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/4...american-symbol Symbols are important, and this thread shows how powerful this symbol can be. In the context of the cache, the swastika would not have offended me, but it is just as well that the OP adopted another symbol. Quote Link to comment
+runawaybunny Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Good job on the cache container. It looks great! As for the question of being offended by the swastika, I personally would not, but I can see how some might be. I'm sure we all have experiences that if made light of or turned into a game would be less of a good time and more akin to a kick in the gut. And I agree with many posters who pointed out that a symbol is just a symbol and has no meaning outside of context. It is the symbol's strong association with a particular experience that makes it offensive. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 There is no need for anyone to ever feel offended by a mere symbol. Those who were there may be reminded of sickening things when they see the swastika; I understand that. But most of us weren’t there, and there is no reason for us to cause ourselves unnecessary grief by confusing symbols with the things they symbolize. Swastika discomfort need not survive this generation. It's our choice. Teaching by example will help ensure that this particular symbol loses its 'evil' powers. If we make fun of the swastika by including it in cartoons and jokes and treasure hunt games then we teach our kids that it is a big nothing, and they learn no anxiety. If we instead allow them to see us reacting in horror at the mere sight of the symbol, then we accordingly pass that unnecessary angst on to the next generation. Let us never forget the horrific evils that were done under this symbol – to forget them is to risk repeating them – but let’s not give any posthumous satisfaction to the departed souls of those who committed those crimes by letting them scare endless generations of us with a mere symbol. Quote Link to comment
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