Claiming FTF before cache is published

[lightrguy]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

[+Scubasonic]

Thius has been talked about many times, since Geocaching does not recognize FTFs there are many opinions on this but the reality is there is no absolutes.

 

For the record I agree that that person should not get the FTF as they had prior knowledge, which gave them a UNFAIR advantage but in the end the Cache Owner will have the final word on that and I would send him a Message for sure.

 

Don't let bad ego's spoil your fun just move on.

 

ScubaSonic

 

SS

[+bittsen]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

As mentioned the last time this topic came up (about a week ago) it is possible for one cache to be listed on more than one site. Perhaps the reviewer on another site was faster than the reviewer at geocaching.com

[+mrbort]

Also remember that geocaching.com is just a listing service. If someone puts out a cache for their scout troop or search and rescue team or whatever and then later lists it on geocaching.com, those who have found it should be more than welcome to log it. It's issues where there is concern about racing out for FTFs and statistics for FTFs and rules about FTFs that make Groundspeak reluctant to include them as a recognized, recorded statistic... Have fun caching and if someone has a cache and another has the FTF before publication on GC.com, then move on to the next one The game is what you make of it but that doesn't mean that everyone else is playing the same game.

[+DanOCan]

I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published.

 

That's the thing, there are no rules for the FTF sub-game.

[+mrbort]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

Also for someone who does this for fun yet is worried about logging FTFs, one would think that you would have actually logged ANY finds... Maybe it's a sock puppet account or maybe you started the game with only FTFs in mind for logging online and in the past week haven't been successful... If you're new to the game, seems to me that there are other things to worry about than how other people log finds in relation to when they're published.

[GOF and Bacall]

Perhaps the CO posted the coordinates on the bulletin board at church before he had it published on GC.com. Or how about a bumper sticker on his car, or a random police cars bumper. GC.com does not recognize the FTF as a contest so no rules. No rules so no way to break the rules.

[+chrisrayn]

I think all that matters is getting one FTF. After that I don't think it's really important. Do it once, say you did it, and bam.

 

Well, I don't know...seeing headhardhat get three in a row on youtube was kind of cool. But if you don't have a video cam, there's no point.

 

[+WRASTRO]

Since there are multiple geocaching websites I think we should have a designation for the first person to find a cache after it is listed on each site. It could be FOGS - First On Geocaching Site. For Terracaching FOTS doesn't really do much for me so I will suggest FITS - First In Terraching Site, or FATS - First At Terracaching Site (the PC folks might not like this one). Then there is Navicaching. Once again FONS doesn't really work for me. My apologies to the Happy Days fans. So it could also be FINS - First In Navicaching Site (Harry Dolphon's fave for sure) or it could be FANS - First At Navicaching Site. Of course the Groundspeak site could also use FIGS or FAGS... or maybe not.

 

FTF is a fact regardless of the circumstances. It really is meaningless to all but a select few who celebrate being able to be (in) FOGS, having FITS or being FANS.

[+Arrow42]

Since there are multiple geocaching websites I think we should have a designation for the first person to find a cache after it is listed on each site. It could be FOGS - First On Geocaching Site. For Terracaching FOTS doesn't really do much for me so I will suggest FITS - First In Terraching Site, or FATS - First At Terracaching Site (the PC folks might not like this one). Then there is Navicaching. Once again FONS doesn't really work for me. My apologies to the Happy Days fans. So it could also be FINS - First In Navicaching Site (Harry Dolphon's fave for sure) or it could be FANS - First At Navicaching Site. Of course the Groundspeak site could also use FIGS or FAGS... or maybe not.

 

FTF is a fact regardless of the circumstances. It really is meaningless to all but a select few who celebrate being able to be (in) FOGS, having FITS or being FANS.

 

"First to Find" is an arbitrary distinction. We could just as easily celebrate the 13th person to find the cache, for all that it matters to geocaching.com. I don't mine playing along with it because it gives me a fun goal to reach... but people taking it to seriously (like all these categories...) will suck the fun out of it.

 

I don't think it's in the best interests of the number 1 site to even acknowledge the existence of any other competing website. That's marketing 101.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Arrow42

[+WRASTRO]

Since there are multiple geocaching websites I think we should have a designation for the first person to find a cache after it is listed on each site. It could be FOGS - First On Geocaching Site. For Terracaching FOTS doesn't really do much for me so I will suggest FITS - First In Terraching Site, or FATS - First At Terracaching Site (the PC folks might not like this one). Then there is Navicaching. Once again FONS doesn't really work for me. My apologies to the Happy Days fans. So it could also be FINS - First In Navicaching Site (Harry Dolphon's fave for sure) or it could be FANS - First At Navicaching Site. Of course the Groundspeak site could also use FIGS or FAGS... or maybe not.

 

FTF is a fact regardless of the circumstances. It really is meaningless to all but a select few who celebrate being able to be (in) FOGS, having FITS or being FANS.

 

"First to Find" is an arbitrary distinction. We could just as easily celebrate the 13th person to find the cache, for all that it matters to geocaching.com. I don't mine playing along with it because it gives me a fun goal to reach... but people taking it to seriously (like all these categories...) will suck the fun out of it.

 

I don't think it's in the best interests of the number 1 site to even acknowledge the existence of any other competing website. That's marketing 101.

 

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

[+bittsen]

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

 

Hey now, I can give at least one reason why Oregon is superior to Washington.... Oregon has ME in it and Washington doesn't.

 

[+WRASTRO]

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

 

Hey now, I can give at least one reason why Oregon is superior to Washington.... Oregon has ME in it and Washington doesn't.

 

Good point. I may need to rethink my examples.

[+Unkle Fester]

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

 

Hey now, I can give at least one reason why Oregon is superior to Washington.... Oregon has ME in it and Washington doesn't.

 

Good point. I may need to rethink my examples.

There are other states out there?

 

Washington is a state? I thought it was part of Canada! Crud.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

 

Hey now, I can give at least one reason why Oregon is superior to Washington.... Oregon has ME in it and Washington doesn't.

 

Good point. I may need to rethink my examples.

There are other states out there?

 

Washington is a state? I thought it was part of Canada! Crud.

You people on the east coast. You're all the same.

 

 

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

As has been mentioned, whoever finds the cache first is FTF. It really doesn't matter when it was listed on this site. It could've been out in the woods for years, found by one person (maybe even a non-cacher who just signed the log) and finally the owner decided to list it here. The one person who signed the log first...they were the first to find that cache.

 

I agree about the egos. I've gone after some FTF's. Not alot, just ones that are close and the timing is right. It can be alot of fun to be out racing, knowing that from somewhere else, someone is also heading towards the cache, every car you pass could be the one that beat you there. It's also a chance to meet new cachers, as newly published caches draw a crowd quickly. But, of course, you'll also likely meet the local FTF hound who thinks finding caches first makes him a celebrity and can't wait to clap himself on the back in his online log. Most of the people are fun to meet and you walk away feeling good. When you meet the clown, you're glad you don't go after many FTF's.

 

I wouldn't let it bother you. If getting skunked on FTF's is causing you any grief, any at all, then you need to rethink why you're caching.

 

Bruce

[+The magician & his assistant]

If you track every TB you find, and then the CO places it in a new unpublished cache I think you will get an email notification with some info about the TB location. You might be able to sniff out the cache from that page. Never done it but its just a thought

[+Isonzo Karst]

whoever finds the cache first is FTF. It really doesn't matter when it was listed on this site. It could've been out in the woods for years, found by one person (maybe even a non-cacher who just signed the log) and finally the owner decided to list it here. The one person who signed the log first...they were the first to find that cache.

 

Maybe this should be the text for a Knowledgebase article? Or stick it up there in the FAQs for quick reference when this topic does its weekly resurgence?

[+briansnat]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published

 

Because he found it first. A FTF is not something to be claimed or awarded. It's a simple fact. You were first to find the cache or you weren't.

 

If I give Bob the coordinates to my cache and he finds it, then it is published here and Ted finds it, guess what - Ted is second to find.

 

This is nothing more than a listing site. A cache owner is free to advertise his cache any way he pleases. He can tell his friends, post the coords in his blog, on Facebook, on this site, another geocaching site or hire a skywriter to paste them across the sky. It's his cache and nobody else's business how and when he gives out the coordinates.i

 

There is nothing cheesy about it and it doesn't taint anything. Now if Bob gloats about the FTF after getting inside info, that would be kind of cheesy.

[+yawppy]

Just recently a cache was published a "?" set up a father apparently placed it for his son to locate and claim the FTF, (GC1X4Q7)

 

I think it is a tainted FTF, even the son in his log admits in so many words as to how his father "Left the solution for him to find, but with so much FTF competition he would take it, .

 

I waited for 7 months for my FTF, a well earned rainy day First FTF it was, I think the FTF race is a part of the game, adds a bit of competition to the hobby/game, as well as life lessons, you have to step up in life, and work hard to get what you want, it is not a hand me down.

 

But to have someone else place a cache just for you to find, a bit well lacking, what will this kid do in the work force, where competition is just as fierce? what sports does this kid play, boo hoo, daddy, I can not get on the team, theres to much competition, and I am a wimp that can't stand on my own 2 feet.

 

K well said my piece, everyone plays differently, but this is a lesson in life that this kid will all ways fall back on his father to bail him out, much more serious than a FTF, in my book any rate.

[+idocdlw]

I don't work toward FTF's. Was excited to log my first several months ago. The publication was posted late in the evening on a weekend. I headed out at a reasonable hour, logged the find at 0830 just to find the FTFinder logged at 0930 the same day....HUH? After reviewing the cache, cache owner and FTF claimant, there seemed to be some connections.

 

Oh well...I've come to look at this just like disappearing caches, TB's and GC's...all part of the game. Log your smiley and get on to the next one!

[+sbell111]

Just recently a cache was published a "?" set up a father apparently placed it for his son to locate and claim the FTF, (GC1X4Q7)

 

I think it is a tainted FTF, even the son in his log admits in so many words as to how his father "Left the solution for him to find, but with so much FTF competition he would take it, .

 

I waited for 7 months for my FTF, a well earned rainy day First FTF it was, I think the FTF race is a part of the game, adds a bit of competition to the hobby/game, as well as life lessons, you have to step up in life, and work hard to get what you want, it is not a hand me down.

 

But to have someone else place a cache just for you to find, a bit well lacking, what will this kid do in the work force, where competition is just as fierce? what sports does this kid play, boo hoo, daddy, I can not get on the team, theres to much competition, and I am a wimp that can't stand on my own 2 feet.

 

K well said my piece, everyone plays differently, but this is a lesson in life that this kid will all ways fall back on his father to bail him out, much more serious than a FTF, in my book any rate.

You get that FTF is only a competition if you make it one, right? At the end of the day, a FTF only means that the cache is findable.

[+HMcF]

Wow, I'll have to keep in mind that some of the geocachers in Massachusetts have no sense of humor. The log for the cache GC1X4Q7 spelled out in no uncertain terms that he found it because he had access to the puzzle. No deception there and apparently no sense of humor.

 

I do find it curious that noone else has logged a find. It has been out two days now and no logs. It took him about 30 minutes to solve the puzzle and go find the cache. While we were having some fun.. and being completely above board about it... it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers. As it turns out he still would have been the first to find since noone else has logged a find at all.

 

Okay, to be honest he still had an advantage in knowing how his father thinks and having done puzzles like this before, but can you solve it in under 30 minutes? Give it a try.. .and be honest like he was.

 

BTW, don't forget to have fun!

[+HMcF]

Just recently a cache was published a "?" set up a father apparently placed it for his son to locate and claim the FTF, (GC1X4Q7)

 

I think it is a tainted FTF, even the son in his log admits in so many words as to how his father "Left the solution for him to find, but with so much FTF competition he would take it, .

 

I waited for 7 months for my FTF, a well earned rainy day First FTF it was, I think the FTF race is a part of the game, adds a bit of competition to the hobby/game, as well as life lessons, you have to step up in life, and work hard to get what you want, it is not a hand me down.

 

But to have someone else place a cache just for you to find, a bit well lacking, what will this kid do in the work force, where competition is just as fierce? what sports does this kid play, boo hoo, daddy, I can not get on the team, theres to much competition, and I am a wimp that can't stand on my own 2 feet.

 

K well said my piece, everyone plays differently, but this is a lesson in life that this kid will all ways fall back on his father to bail him out, much more serious than a FTF, in my book any rate.

 

What will this "kid" do when I enter the competitive work force? The same thing that I did here. I exercised my competitive advantage. Everyone that manages to land to a FTF has some kind of competitive advantage over the others that don't. Whether is be a mobile phone with publication notifications, proximity, willingness to get wet in the rain as you've stated you got your FTF, it's all competitive advantage. That's all part of game theory. Since it appears that you are in the military, I will assume that you've studied tactics of some form (all a type of game theory) and understand pushing your advantage. I could just as easily not mentioned anything about having the puzzle in advance to solve. I also could have pretended that there weren't issues with getting the cache published which also extended whatever competitive advantage I have and just said that I found it that morning. I didn't. I was completely forward with the circumstances of the find. If you have a personal issue with me or my behavior, I would appreciate it if you kept that between you and me rather than airing that out in forums. I take quite a bit of personal offense to your language and insinuations in this post.

[+MFLyons]

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

 

Hey now, I can give at least one reason why Oregon is superior to Washington.... Oregon has ME in it and Washington doesn't.

 

Good point. I may need to rethink my examples.

There are other states out there?

 

Washington is a state? I thought it was part of Canada! Crud.

 

What Canada isn't a state? I lived there over twenty years and the whole time I thought I was in the state of Confusion

[AZcachemeister]

It can happen.

To the OP: If you worry too much about who got the FTF (or when they got it), you are going to burn out early.

 

Let it go.

 

Find the cache, enjoy the hunt, have a nice day!

[+The Jester]

You are obviously an elitist. This would be akin to all of us in Washington refusing to acknowledge Oregon and Idaho. Even though we are clearly superior we recognize them and their limited value.

 

Hey now, I can give at least one reason why Oregon is superior to Washington.... Oregon has ME in it and Washington doesn't.

 

Gee, and I thought that just proved WRASTRO's point - WA is superior...

[+fizzymagic]

What will this "kid" do when I enter the competitive work force? The same thing that I did here. I exercised my competitive advantage.

But this is geocaching, not the competitive workforce. It's supposed to be fun.

 

Which is your point, isn't it? I think your puzzle and letting your son get FTF is awesome, though I think the difficulty rating is considerably too low. I also think those who have their panties in a wad over it need to maybe think about their priorities.

[the3gmen]

Just recently a cache was published a "?" set up a father apparently placed it for his son to locate and claim the FTF, (GC1X4Q7).....

 

You get that FTF is only a competition if you make it one, right? At the end of the day, a FTF only means that the cache is findable.

 

To the cacher who placed (GC1X4Q7). I don't mean this as a slam or anything, I'm just curious. From your profile it looks like you are from Florida, how did you manage to publish a cache in Massachusetts ? Do you visit the area often enough to perform maintenance or do you have a friend in the area to monitor the cache ?

 

Like I said, I am just curious. I don't have a problem with the way you set this up or that your son found it first. I know I could never have solved it so quickly.

[+Avernar]

I think it is a tainted FTF, even the son in his log admits in so many words as to how his father "Left the solution for him to find, but with so much FTF competition he would take it, .

I just love how you made up facts to suit your argument.

 

Where in the log does it say the father left the puzzle out on purpose?

 

Where in the log does it say that it was the solved version? (The CO posted here that his son still had to solve it).

 

As for the FTF, there are no rules. First to find is the person to find it first regardless of how they did it. We had a person here actually follow a COs footprints in the snow to an unpublished cache. Others got FTFs because the details were released at an event.

[+Jeep_Dog]

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

Quite impressive! At zero finds, I had no idea about FTFs. You are quite well researched even before beginning your caching career!

 

Egos can hurt the adventure only if you allow them to do so. Why is your ego insulted that someone "stole" an FTF?

 

It is not what other people do to you that counts, but rather your attitude toward everything around you that affects your "adventure."

[+rjb43nh]

HMcF-...it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers."

That condescending attitude speaks volumes.

[Dinoprophet]

HMcF-...it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers."

That condescending attitude speaks volumes.

If the hider rated it 1.5 of difficulty, and no one has found it yet, I'd say it's simply an accurate statement.

[knowschad]

Just recently a cache was published a "?" set up a father apparently placed it for his son to locate and claim the FTF, (GC1X4Q7)

 

I think it is a tainted FTF, even the son in his log admits in so many words as to how his father "Left the solution for him to find, but with so much FTF competition he would take it, .

 

I waited for 7 months for my FTF, a well earned rainy day First FTF it was, I think the FTF race is a part of the game, adds a bit of competition to the hobby/game, as well as life lessons, you have to step up in life, and work hard to get what you want, it is not a hand me down.

 

But to have someone else place a cache just for you to find, a bit well lacking, what will this kid do in the work force, where competition is just as fierce? what sports does this kid play, boo hoo, daddy, I can not get on the team, theres to much competition, and I am a wimp that can't stand on my own 2 feet.

 

K well said my piece, everyone plays differently, but this is a lesson in life that this kid will all ways fall back on his father to bail him out, much more serious than a FTF, in my book any rate.

 

 

I can scarcely believe that you even took the time to post a somewhat disparaging note on the cache page! As I always like to post on FTF threads, "What's an FTF? "

Edited August 17, 2009 by knowschad

[Mr.Yuck]

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

Quite impressive! At zero finds, I had no idea about FTFs. You are quite well researched even before beginning your caching career!

 

Egos can hurt the adventure only if you allow them to do so. Why is your ego insulted that someone "stole" an FTF?

 

It is not what other people do to you that counts, but rather your attitude toward everything around you that affects your "adventure."

 

Hmm. After 3 days of this, I just noticed that the OP is a zero find sock puppet, and the cache in question is local to me. I know that dude! He's probably just messing around, about being FTF. But even if not, no big deal. What others have said, FTF is not, and never will a sanctioned activity. And people giving coordinates out to their buddies before publishing has been going on all over the world as long as the phrase "First to Find" has been in existance.

[+rjb43nh]

That condescending attitude speaks volumes.

Dinoprophet-"If the hider rated it 1.5 of difficulty, and no one has found it yet, I'd say it's simply an accurate statement.

Your statement doesn't logically follow. The cache in question here (GC1X4Q7) is rated D1.5/T1.5. That doesn't mean that it is accurately rated or that the local cachers aren't good at puzzles. I have met, and know from reputation, a number of Massachusetts cachers and hold their puzzle solving skills in high regard. The statement "...it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers", irrespective of whether the puzzle is simple or not, isn't intended as a complement.

[The_Eh_theist]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

You are one pathetic non-cacher.

You don't even have the guts to use your real geocaching account to post this message.

 

Now, for everyone who has posted in this thread, here is the actual log of the "FTF"

 

"I managed to score the FTF on this one a couple days ago, but had to come back once it was listed to keep it on the up and up and sign the logbook with the correct date.

I've been in this mine a few times, and I had plans to put a cache here a long time ago, but then one popped up across the stream and that was that.

Thanks for the park and grab....it took me 17 minutes round trip to do this one.

BOOYAAHH!!

 

P.S. Met up with another cacher who will try to claim this as a FTF....but I was here 3 days before you! HAHAHAHAA"

 

Maybe you should actually go and do this cache and see the logbook for yourself. It was not signed before the cache was published. It was signed about 2 hours after it was published. No where in the log did it say it was signed 3 days before it was published.

 

I helped to place the cache, if it wasn't for me, the cache owner wouldn't even have known of this tunnel's existance.

I could've signed the logbook when it was placed, but that wouldn't have been right, so I came back once the cache was published and got the so-called FTF. Which wasn't a FTF since I was the 2nd person to find it...

I was joking around with the actual FTFer, and it was an inside joke.

 

Obviously, lightrguy, you have too much time on your hands.....and with so much time on your hands, you would think you could use that time to find a cache before anybody else, instead of just bitching about it.

 

Learn to read a log before you start complaining about it.

 

P.S. I know you are a local cacher in my area.....I'm just wondering which one....

Edited August 18, 2009 by RockHarder

[+gof1]

That condescending attitude speaks volumes.

Dinoprophet-"If the hider rated it 1.5 of difficulty, and no one has found it yet, I'd say it's simply an accurate statement.

Your statement doesn't logically follow. The cache in question here (GC1X4Q7) is rated D1.5/T1.5. That doesn't mean that it is accurately rated or that the local cachers aren't good at puzzles. I have met, and know from reputation, a number of Massachusetts cachers and hold their puzzle solving skills in high regard. The statement "...it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers", irrespective of whether the puzzle is simple or not, isn't intended as a complement.

 

I think he meant "and no one has found it yet" is an accurate statement. At least that is the way I read it.

[+gof1]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

You are one pathetic non-cacher.

You don't even have the guts to use your real geocaching account to post this message.

 

Now, for everyone who has posted in this thread, here is the actual log of the "FTF"

 

"I managed to score the FTF on this one a couple days ago, but had to come back once it was listed to keep it on the up and up and sign the logbook with the correct date.

I've been in this mine a few times, and I had plans to put a cache here a long time ago, but then one popped up across the stream and that was that.

Thanks for the park and grab....it took me 17 minutes round trip to do this one.

BOOYAAHH!!

 

P.S. Met up with another cacher who will try to claim this as a FTF....but I was here 3 days before you! HAHAHAHAA"

 

Maybe you should actually go and do this cache and see the logbook for yourself. It was not signed before the cache was published. It was signed about 2 hours after it was published. No where in the log did it say it was signed 3 days before it was published.

 

I helped to place the cache, if it wasn't for me, the cache owner wouldn't even have known of this tunnel's existance.

I could've signed the logbook when it was placed, but that wouldn't have been right, so I came back once the cache was published and got the so-called FTF. Which wasn't a FTF since I was the 2nd person to find it...

I was joking around with the actual FTFer, and it was an inside joke.

 

Obviously, lightrguy, you have too much time on your hands.....and with so much time on your hands, you would think you could use that time to find a cache before anybody else, instead of just bitching about it.

 

Learn to read a log before you start complaining about it.

 

P.S. I know you are a local cacher in my area.....I'm just wondering which one....

 

Howdy RH. How's things? Thingy?

 

Is it you that all this crap is about? Someone don't know you so good do they? If they think you are actually claiming FTF before publication. What would they say if they found out that I actually DID claim FTF before a cache was published?

[+fizzymagic]

P.S. Met up with another cacher who will try to claim this as a FTF....but I was here 3 days before you! HAHAHAHAA"

Let me get this straight...

 

You are proud of that log and call the other guy "pathetic?"

 

Sigh.

[+debtodd007]

One of my caches (GCVC9G) was found before published. It was another cacher looking to place a cache and just happened to pick the same spot.

 

The sent us an E-mail before the cache was even published. I thought it was pretty comical.

 

I think they deserve the FTF. They were cacheing and found a cache.

[+kunarion]

I think they deserve the FTF. They were cacheing and found a cache.

 

I'm gonna try this tomorrow, for the challenge of it, not for the FTF (already have one of those). Well it's been published, but GZ is off by, I think about a mile. So it's been disabled. And I'm guessing where it is, based on knowing that the Cords are dead wrong. Wish me luck.

 

By the way, I've done this only once before, and I was right.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

I think they deserve the FTF. They were cacheing and found a cache.

 

I'm gonna try this tomorrow, for the challenge of it, not for the FTF (already have one of those). Well it's been published, but GZ is off by, I think about a mile. So it's been disabled. And I'm guessing where it is, based on knowing that the Cords are dead wrong. Wish me luck.

 

By the way, I've done this only once before, and I was right.

 

I've done that a few times. The best one was when the coords were off by 5° W (1442689.8 feet)

[The_Eh_theist]

P.S. Met up with another cacher who will try to claim this as a FTF....but I was here 3 days before you! HAHAHAHAA"

Let me get this straight...

 

You are proud of that log and call the other guy "pathetic?"

 

Sigh.

 

I am proud of that log. It wasn't meant to be fodder for some newbie cacher to pick apart, it was an inside joke between myself and the guy who got the FTF. I helped place the cache 3 days prior and I could've signed the logbook then and there, but I didn't because that wouldn't be fair.

After it got published, I raced out to get a FTF only to be robbed by about 15 minutes.

I joked with the FTFer that I was gonna claim it as a FTF (jokingly) because I could have cheated and signed the log when it was placed.

But I don't really need to defend myself here, since I did nothing wrong.

 

It was just brought to my attention that someone was saying s*** about me on the forums so I thought I'd take a look.

 

Now I remember why I don't frequent these forums....too much drama.

[The_Eh_theist]

I don't understand how someone can claim an FTF on a cache before it is published. I thought the "game" rules was to wait until the cache is published. After that race out and try to be the first one there with log in hand.

 

Check out this cache GC1X7FQ , the FTF was supposedly a couple of days before it published???

 

I say if you have prior knowledge, however you may get it, whether it be a friends cache, or if you are able to get inside information (I really hope the latter isn't the case), you should not put down a FTF. Not only does this make you look bad, but it really taints the "game".

 

There was another cache recently that there was a person who signed the log with prior knowledge found it first but was fair about it and never claimed the FTF. I don't know, he may have done a test search.

 

I do this for fun but egos can hurt the adventure.

 

 

You are one pathetic non-cacher.

You don't even have the guts to use your real geocaching account to post this message.

 

Now, for everyone who has posted in this thread, here is the actual log of the "FTF"

 

"I managed to score the FTF on this one a couple days ago, but had to come back once it was listed to keep it on the up and up and sign the logbook with the correct date.

I've been in this mine a few times, and I had plans to put a cache here a long time ago, but then one popped up across the stream and that was that.

Thanks for the park and grab....it took me 17 minutes round trip to do this one.

BOOYAAHH!!

 

P.S. Met up with another cacher who will try to claim this as a FTF....but I was here 3 days before you! HAHAHAHAA"

 

Maybe you should actually go and do this cache and see the logbook for yourself. It was not signed before the cache was published. It was signed about 2 hours after it was published. No where in the log did it say it was signed 3 days before it was published.

 

I helped to place the cache, if it wasn't for me, the cache owner wouldn't even have known of this tunnel's existance.

I could've signed the logbook when it was placed, but that wouldn't have been right, so I came back once the cache was published and got the so-called FTF. Which wasn't a FTF since I was the 2nd person to find it...

I was joking around with the actual FTFer, and it was an inside joke.

 

Obviously, lightrguy, you have too much time on your hands.....and with so much time on your hands, you would think you could use that time to find a cache before anybody else, instead of just bitching about it.

 

Learn to read a log before you start complaining about it.

 

P.S. I know you are a local cacher in my area.....I'm just wondering which one....

 

Howdy RH. How's things? Thingy?

 

Is it you that all this crap is about? Someone don't know you so good do they? If they think you are actually claiming FTF before publication. What would they say if they found out that I actually DID claim FTF before a cache was published?

 

Yeah, GOF, it's about me again. I guess I love the controversy and people just loving thinking the worst when I write a log.... In the future, I should keep my logs simple and just write "TFTC" and that's it.

[+sbell111]

... I do find it curious that noone else has logged a find. It has been out two days now and no logs. It took him about 30 minutes to solve the puzzle and go find the cache. While we were having some fun.. and being completely above board about it... it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers. As it turns out he still would have been the first to find since noone else has logged a find at all. ...

That condescending attitude speaks volumes.

If the hider rated it 1.5 of difficulty, and no one has found it yet, I'd say it's simply an accurate statement.

Your statement doesn't logically follow. The cache in question here (GC1X4Q7) is rated D1.5/T1.5. That doesn't mean that it is accurately rated or that the local cachers aren't good at puzzles. I have met, and know from reputation, a number of Massachusetts cachers and hold their puzzle solving skills in high regard. The statement "...it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers", irrespective of whether the puzzle is simple or not, isn't intended as a complement.

I think that HMcF made the assumption that people in his area try to quickly find new puzzle caches.

 

If this assumption is correct, then his statement that he miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of local cachers when he rated his cache is also correct.

Edited August 18, 2009 by sbell111

[+rjb43nh]

sbell111-"I think that HMcF made the assumption that people in his area try to quickly find new puzzle caches.

 

If this assumption is correct, then his statement that he miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of local cachers when he rated his cache is also correct.

It is analogous to my saying: "I miscalculated your ability to understand what I posted." That would be considered by most to be an off-handed insult aimed at you. Mind you, I'm only using that as an example to show how the wording reads. If that isn't what he meant then perhaps he should have worded it differently. His replies were somewhat defensive after being criticized by a number of posters.

[Dinoprophet]

sbell111-"I think that HMcF made the assumption that people in his area try to quickly find new puzzle caches.

 

If this assumption is correct, then his statement that he miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of local cachers when he rated his cache is also correct.

It is analogous to my saying: "I miscalculated your ability to understand what I posted." That would be considered by most to be an off-handed insult aimed at you. Mind you, I'm only using that as an example to show how the wording reads. If that isn't what he meant then perhaps he should have worded it differently. His replies were somewhat defensive after being criticized by a number of posters.

In a miscommunication you could say "You misunderstood me" (putting the blame on the other) or "I wasn't clear" (taking the blame yourself). But if I think something is easy and someone else doesn't, how do I convey that without sounding superior or condescending?

[+sbell111]

... I do find it curious that noone else has logged a find. It has been out two days now and no logs. It took him about 30 minutes to solve the puzzle and go find the cache. While we were having some fun.. and being completely above board about it... it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers. As it turns out he still would have been the first to find since noone else has logged a find at all. ...

That condescending attitude speaks volumes.

If the hider rated it 1.5 of difficulty, and no one has found it yet, I'd say it's simply an accurate statement.

Your statement doesn't logically follow. The cache in question here (GC1X4Q7) is rated D1.5/T1.5. That doesn't mean that it is accurately rated or that the local cachers aren't good at puzzles. I have met, and know from reputation, a number of Massachusetts cachers and hold their puzzle solving skills in high regard. The statement "...it appears that I miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of the local geocachers", irrespective of whether the puzzle is simple or not, isn't intended as a complement.

I think that HMcF made the assumption that people in his area try to quickly find new puzzle caches.

 

If this assumption is correct, then his statement that he miscalculated the puzzle solving abilities of local cachers when he rated his cache is also correct.

It is analogous to my saying: "I miscalculated your ability to understand what I posted." That would be considered by most to be an off-handed insult aimed at you. Mind you, I'm only using that as an example to show how the wording reads. If that isn't what he meant then perhaps he should have worded it differently.

I think this is a perfectly good example of something that one could either choose to be offended by, or not. However, it is the nature of the difficulty rating. The cache owner tries to gauge the ability of others. If he guesses that finders would have an easier time finding the cache than they actually do, then he has miscalculated the abilities of his peers. The same goes if he rates the cache higher than he should have.

His replies were somewhat defensive after being criticized by a number of posters.

Welcome to the world of internet forums. Everyone gets a bit defensive after being criticized. Edited August 18, 2009 by sbell111

[+rjb43nh]

Dinoprophet-"In a miscommunication you could say "You misunderstood me" (putting the blame on the other) or "I wasn't clear" (taking the blame yourself). But if I think something is easy and someone else doesn't, how do I convey that without sounding superior or condescending?"

More tactfully than the HMcF did, and without hubris, I would hope.

[+Avernar]

But if I think something is easy and someone else doesn't, how do I convey that without sounding superior or condescending?

"My 5th grade son/daughter figured it out."

 

For some strange reason people don't seem to get offended when a kid is smarter than they are.