a weird situation

[+Kavid]

So, I have been caching for about a year but I am fairly new to placing my own. I found a nice trail in the woods and a great place to put a cache. I looked online and found the owner and contacted him about it. This is where I get confused. I explained to him what geocaching was and told him all about CITO and he was totally fine with ,me placing a cache on his property. But then he voiced his concerns about his liability if someone got hurt on the trail and he had given permission for them to be there. So he told me that he doesn't care what we do there, but he just wasn't going to give his "permission" for us to be there.

 

So what I am wondering is, first, is his "permission" legit enough for us to use the land, and second, WOULD he be liable if someone got hurt caching and he gave permission to be there?

 

As a quick side question to this, does the shoulder of the road in front of someone's property count as their's, i.e., do they have any say about for instance, how parks there?

[+bittsen]

So, I have been caching for about a year but I am fairly new to placing my own. I found a nice trail in the woods and a great place to put a cache. I looked online and found the owner and contacted him about it. This is where I get confused. I explained to him what geocaching was and told him all about CITO and he was totally fine with ,me placing a cache on his property. But then he voiced his concerns about his liability if someone got hurt on the trail and he had given permission for them to be there. So he told me that he doesn't care what we do there, but he just wasn't going to give his "permission" for us to be there.

 

So what I am wondering is, first, is his "permission" legit enough for us to use the land, and second, WOULD he be liable if someone got hurt caching and he gave permission to be there?

 

As a quick side question to this, does the shoulder of the road in front of someone's property count as their's, i.e., do they have any say about for instance, how parks there?

 

Depending on the laws in your area, the land owner could be liable for someone getting hurt whether or not he gave permission for them to be there.

 

Having said that, the owner gave permission for the cache to be on his property, didn't he? That's all you need. You have permission to place the cache.

I would put on the cache listing that the property is personal property and the cachers, waive liability. Word it properly, of course.

[+gof1]

Check your states recreational use laws. These laws are in place to allow land owners to open up their property to casual use without fear of liability for things occurring from that use. Depending on how your state laws are written and interpreted your land owner may be better off giving full, proper permission.

[+Cpl. Klinger]

My mama always said, "You fall on your @ss it's your own dam fault"

[+sbell111]

So, I have been caching for about a year but I am fairly new to placing my own. I found a nice trail in the woods and a great place to put a cache. I looked online and found the owner and contacted him about it. This is where I get confused. I explained to him what geocaching was and told him all about CITO and he was totally fine with ,me placing a cache on his property. But then he voiced his concerns about his liability if someone got hurt on the trail and he had given permission for them to be there. So he told me that he doesn't care what we do there, but he just wasn't going to give his "permission" for us to be there.

 

So what I am wondering is, first, is his "permission" legit enough for us to use the land, and second, WOULD he be liable if someone got hurt caching and he gave permission to be there?

 

As a quick side question to this, does the shoulder of the road in front of someone's property count as their's, i.e., do they have any say about for instance, how parks there?

It's not uncommon for someone to say that you can place the cache, but that they don't want to give you 'official' permission. I would place the cache and include some verbiage on the cache page that is similar to this bit which is slightly altered from the disclaimer that we all had to agree to, anyway:

 

Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache.

 

While every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this information, portions may be incorrect or not current. Any person or entity that relies on information obtained from this cache page does so at his or her own risk.

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Always exercise common sense and caution.

[knowschad]

Anybody can sue anyone for anything. Doesn't mean they will win the lawsuit, or even make it to court, but even if it doesn't, it can be an expensive proposition.

 

However, you can check your state's recreational use laws here or here

[+J-Way]

Anybody can sue anyone for anything. Doesn't mean they will win the lawsuit, or even make it to court, but even if it doesn't, it can be an expensive proposition.

However, you can check your state's recreational use laws here or here

Yep. Lots of US states have laws that exempt land owners from lawsuits if they allow people to use their land for recreational purposes (check the lists to make sure that applies to your area). Hiking and horseback riding groups lobby for these laws so they can convince landowners to let them use private land.

 

As long as they don't leave obvious hazards laying around, most landowners are relatively well protected. But that still won't keep a grieving mother from suing when their kid falls down the abandoned well that you had no idea was even there. The suit might get dismissed at the first court date, but the legal fees up to that point could be huge.

 

As for where property ends, that depends on where you are and how big the road is. For small rural roads the property line often goes to the center of the road. The government has a legal easement to build and maintain the road, but the property is still owned by the adjacent landowner. So caches placed on the shoulder are on private property, and parking on the shoulder CAN be controlled by the property owner. But because of the legal easement they can't stop people from driving on the public road.

 

For urban streets the property line often goes to the edge of the pavement or curb. Which means the building owner also owns the sidewalk, but because of a public easement they can't stop people from walking on it. In downtown urban areas with high rise buildings, building owners take advantage of this by extending the basement under the sidewalk all the way to the edge of the street. If you look down into the grates in city sidewalks you're looking into someone's basement.

 

For major highways, especially interstate highways, the states often own the land out to the right-of-way line.