Archived Question

[+swizzle]

So we all pretty much know by now that we are not getting the feature back that allows us to view all of the archived caches. There was however the mention of asking your reviewer about past caches and he could work with you. I was wondering for 1, How do I email my reviewer? Do I set up a cache page and just post a reviewer note for him to check an area or can I e-mail reviewers directly. Will it always involve building a cache page just to ask him. 3. Will the reviewer only be able to provide info on archived caches with .10 or can I get a request for a larger area. Probably pushing it but would he possibly be able to provide me with all the archived caches within say a mile or even a 10 mile radius? I don't plan on flooding the poor guy with coords to check but some areas maybe rather large. The one cemetery that I'm thinking about putting a cache in is big enough for 2 caches. If I post the coords for a prefered spot then I might not get the archived cache listing that was on the other side of the cemetery. Swizzle

[GOF and Bacall]

I would try to avoid making a pest out of myself over it. The reviewer is likely only going to give you information about an archived cache if it relates somehow to your new cache placement. Even then it is dependent on the reviewers judgment.

 

You can contact the reviewer through their profile. Check for the published log on a local cache page.

[Dinoprophet]

Identify a prolific cache finder in your area who has been around a while and search through his finds. That will get most of them for you, though it will take a while to go through them all.

[+swizzle]

Identify a prolific cache finder in your area who has been around a while and search through his finds. That will get most of them for you, though it will take a while to go through them all.

 

That's what I've been doing is surfing profiles. I just can't help but feel I'm missing some of the caches in my area because of some of these areas being perfect for a cache. Could it be that my area is so geonomical poor that these 2 large cemeteries have never had a cache in them. I keep surfing profiles but I know I'm missing some of them. So many cachers and most of them started caching in other states. So even our local cachers have very few older caches in their finds. Is there any other alternative programs that could be used to find archived caches? Maybe something that cachers could add to by posting the arcived caches that they've found in their own searches. Some of the archived caches I'm looking at are of extreme interest to me but are 50, 60 even 70 miles away or more. It might not help me to add those to another program but it could help someone else. Maybe in turn they could post an archived cache that I missed in my area. Thanx for the info guys. Swizzle

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

[+Team Taran]

I am puzzled by this obsession for knowing about archived caches. If you are planning to put a cache in a cemetery, I believe that most reviewers ask for explicit permission for cemetery hides especially in cemeteries that are still actively accepting burials. In any case permission in these areas is a good thing and I would think would be required under most interpretations. So knowing whether a cache has been there and been archived is of limited use. Also most archival notes are of very little use in determining what happened to the cache.

Team Taran

Edited August 11, 2009 by Team Taran

[+Unkle Fester]

I guess my question is why are you searching for archived caches?

 

They're archived for a reason.

[GOF and Bacall]

Identify a prolific cache finder in your area who has been around a while and search through his finds. That will get most of them for you, though it will take a while to go through them all.

 

That's what I've been doing is surfing profiles. I just can't help but feel I'm missing some of the caches in my area because of some of these areas being perfect for a cache. Could it be that my area is so geonomical poor that these 2 large cemeteries have never had a cache in them. I keep surfing profiles but I know I'm missing some of them. So many cachers and most of them started caching in other states. So even our local cachers have very few older caches in their finds. Is there any other alternative programs that could be used to find archived caches? Maybe something that cachers could add to by posting the arcived caches that they've found in their own searches. Some of the archived caches I'm looking at are of extreme interest to me but are 50, 60 even 70 miles away or more. It might not help me to add those to another program but it could help someone else. Maybe in turn they could post an archived cache that I missed in my area. Thanx for the info guys. Swizzle

 

Go to whoever is in charge of the cemetery and get permission to place a cache there and do so.

[+swizzle]

To save me the time and trouble of placing a cache in an area that has a high muggle problem, or needs special permission to place it or if the cache was just unmaintained or plain non-existant. I like to make speciality containers and if there's a good chance it will be muggled then I don't want to waste my time setting up a cache there or making an extravigant container. Besides the older archives can give you leads on where to put caches by surfering all of that archived caches finders. 3 of the caches that I placed are all because of one archived cache that I went looking for. I didn't know the place even existed until that DNF. Another reason is the possibility of locating an older cache that was never recovered. There's gotta be a ton of caches out there that have good hides and a few DNF's that frustrated a new cache placer into believeing that its no longer there. Not everyone goes back out and retrieves their caches. If its nothing but geotrash then it could give you a sweet hidey hole in return for some cito. Swizzle

[+swizzle]

I am puzzled by this obsession for knowing about archived caches. If you are planning to put a cache in a cemetery, I believe that most reviewers ask for explicit permission for cemetery hides especially in cemeteries that are still actively accepting burials. In any case permission in these areas is a good thing and I would think would be required under most interpretations. So knowing whether a cache has been there and been archived is of limited use. Also most archival notes are of very little use in determining what happened to the cache.

Team Taran

 

I have no intentions of placing caches in active cemeteries without first seeking permisson. That was just one example of the many places I'd like to place a cache. Probably a poor example I know but just one example. One of the cemeteries here had a cache in it and I went to look for it. I found an angry guy on a lawnmower that told me to take it home with me or he'd throw the d*** thing out. He isn't the owner of the cemetery but could be a problem even if I did gain the proper permission to place a cache there. I want to see if there was any conflicts within a certain cache area and then maybe determine if there's a way to get around those issues. Swizzle

[+Knight2000]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

I cannot beleive you just said that...

 

I pick spot "xyz". I wonder about the past. I am very surprised there has not been one here. I havent cached since 2001, only since January 09 but I have 600 finds.

 

It seems reasonable to check to see if there has been a cache here before. (Why? Because I try to be a reasonable, responsible and thorough CO.) If so, why was it archived? What issues did it have?

 

[i load up maps on geocaching.com to search for archived caches at this location.]

 

-Oh. I see it was archived because the neighbor kept calling the police. This spot isn't a good idea.

-I see that it was muggled 4 times before archiving. This spot probably isn't a good idea. I don't want to have to buy lock&lock after lock&lock.

-I see the that the owner moved away. I'm good.

-I see there have been none here. I am amazed!

 

[+swizzle]

Another thing that could be useful that I forgot to mention is the cache page itself. Maybe the cache had a funny twist to it or a bit of history that I didn't know about. I might want to try to recreate that same cache. Maybe the coords 300 feet away offers better hidey holes or better concealment to the cacher. Swizzle

[+Knight2000]

Another thing that could be useful that I forgot to mention is the cache page itself. Maybe the cache had a funny twist to it or a bit of history that I didn't know about. I might want to try to recreate that same cache. Maybe the coords 300 feet away offers better hidey holes or better concealment to the cacher. Swizzle

That is funny you mentioned that. Just today I was thinking of an archived cache. I could place a cache in the same spot and copy their cache page description. Of course I know about the cache already so I do not need to search.

 

Interesting idea for caches that were some of the first.

 

It is a shame that we can't revisit them (online) to see where they might have been. Neat idea.

[+baloo&bd]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

I cannot beleive you just said that...

 

I pick spot "xyz". I wonder about the past. I am very surprised there has not been one here. I havent cached since 2001, only since January 09 but I have 600 finds.

 

It seems reasonable to check to see if there has been a cache here before. (Why? Because I try to be a reasonable, responsible and thorough CO.) If so, why was it archived? What issues did it have?

 

[i load up maps on geocaching.com to search for archived caches at this location.]

 

-Oh. I see it was archived because the neighbor kept calling the police. This spot isn't a good idea.

-I see that it was muggled 4 times before archiving. This spot probably isn't a good idea. I don't want to have to buy lock&lock after lock&lock.

-I see the that the owner moved away. I'm good.

-I see there have been none here. I am amazed!

 

 

So if I am reading this hypothetical cacher right, they're;

 

- Lazy. (Don't want too much effort in.)

- Lazy. (Does not want to have to think much about the spot.)

- Lazy. (Wants others to lead the way before they "try" an area.)

- Cheap.

[+Renegade Knight]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

The reason a cache was archived and it's history can tell you about the viablity of a new hide in the area. It can also tell you what may make that location viable for a cache.

 

A classic case of those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Renegade Knight

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

I cannot beleive you just said that...

 

I pick spot "xyz". I wonder about the past. I am very surprised there has not been one here. I havent cached since 2001, only since January 09 but I have 600 finds.

 

It seems reasonable to check to see if there has been a cache here before. (Why? Because I try to be a reasonable, responsible and thorough CO.) If so, why was it archived? What issues did it have?

 

[i load up maps on geocaching.com to search for archived caches at this location.]

 

-Oh. I see it was archived because the neighbor kept calling the police. This spot isn't a good idea.

-I see that it was muggled 4 times before archiving. This spot probably isn't a good idea. I don't want to have to buy lock&lock after lock&lock.

-I see the that the owner moved away. I'm good.

-I see there have been none here. I am amazed!

 

But what if it was the final stage of an archive puzzle cache? You'd never know why it was archived unless you had already solved it.

[+Renegade Knight]

...So if I am reading this hypothetical cacher right, they're;

 

- Lazy. (Don't want too much effort in.)

- Lazy. (Does not want to have to think much about the spot.)

- Lazy. (Wants others to lead the way before they "try" an area.)

- Cheap.

They are also smart to try and learn the history of the area cachewise so they can be lazy about all those extra maintance trips to calm that neighbor who keeps calling the police.

 

Even ignoring lazy cachers, the logs make this activity a community activity. There is history there to be had by reading the logs and looking at the caches. The history connects us. Also at some point my kids or grandkids may be interested in going back and reading my logs. They tell stories about this and that. Things that give a glimpse of my life that will remain after I'm long gone.

[+swizzle]

Lazy, lazy, lazy, cheap? Searching the archives is an extra part of researching places to place caches. If I'm looking at a dozen possible areas to hide a cache then spending an hour looking for any archived caches that might be there is extra work if anything. I can put a log in a film can and hide it anywhere's. The fact that I'm searching the archives is to potential make another plain jane cache into something better. I could copy and past a blob of history and call it better but why do that when there's a museum up the street and a local historical society in every town that could tell me more that I could add to my listings to improve it further. Maybe an ammo can thief in the area could help me to decide on another container. Swizzle

[+Knight2000]

So if I am reading this hypothetical cacher right, they're;

 

- Lazy. (Don't want too much effort in.)

- Lazy. (Does not want to have to think much about the spot.)

- Lazy. (Wants others to lead the way before they "try" an area.)

- Cheap.

 

Yeah. That's it. So what if a cacher spends 30 minutes looking for a missing cache. It is ok because the hider isn't cheap.

[+Knight2000]

But what if it was the final stage of an archive puzzle cache? You'd never know why it was archived unless you had already solved it.

What is the ratio of mystery caches to traditional caches.

[+tozainamboku]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

The reason a cache was archived and it's history can tell you about the viablity of a new hide in the area. It can also tell you what may make that location viable for a cache.

 

A classic case of those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

OK. I can understand that I've found a great place for a cache, maybe in an old cemetery. So I wonder, "Why are there no caches here already?". Seems simple enough to email my reviewer and ask "Were there any caches that used be here that are archived and if so why were they archived?" Then I can use that information to decide if I want to try putting a new cache in that location or perhaps what I could do differently so that my cache won't have the same problems. I don't see why I would need to find all the old archived locations just out of curiosity as to where someone might have had a cache in the past. And while it might be admirable to go looking for abandoned caches to remove the litter, how do I really know the cache is abandoned versus the cache owner just decided no to deal with Geocaching.com any more? I can't see Geocaching.com having any official need to provide information on archived caches just so someone can go remove something that isn't theirs to remove in the first place.

[+swizzle]

Why would you need to search for an archived cache? If it's archived, it isn't in the way of you placing a cache there.

The reason a cache was archived and it's history can tell you about the viablity of a new hide in the area. It can also tell you what may make that location viable for a cache.

 

A classic case of those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

OK. I can understand that I've found a great place for a cache, maybe in an old cemetery. So I wonder, "Why are there no caches here already?". Seems simple enough to email my reviewer and ask "Were there any caches that used be here that are archived and if so why were they archived?" Then I can use that information to decide if I want to try putting a new cache in that location or perhaps what I could do differently so that my cache won't have the same problems. I don't see why I would need to find all the old archived locations just out of curiosity as to where someone might have had a cache in the past. And while it might be admirable to go looking for abandoned caches to remove the litter, how do I really know the cache is abandoned versus the cache owner just decided no to deal with Geocaching.com any more? I can't see Geocaching.com having any official need to provide information on archived caches just so someone can go remove something that isn't theirs to remove in the first place.

 

I've already e-mailed my reviewer about a spot going on about 30 hours ago now. Still no response. Using the archives are great for finding new spots for caches. I just moved to this area in January and as I already posted above if it wasn't for the archived cache that I was looking for I never would have found the 3 nature trails along side of an old aquaduct that is 2 miles long and a nice easy walk. Well I may have found it without the archive but by then someone else may have put their caches there. Also if I find a cache that has been archived from well over a year ago and the owner hasn't logged on in a year then I can assume that he's not coming back anytime soon. Am I suppose to leave an archived cache in place just in case the guy decides to come back after a year. If he sees my cache there and wants his container back bad enough he can email me. I may even work with him to give him his location back. Depending on the situation. You make it sound like I'm hunting for ammo cans and swag. I'd be happy to toss out a waterlogged film can if its still there. There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove. I can't picture someone coming back online after a year or so of absence from caching and sueing over an ammo can full of toys. I know of all the recent archives in my area. I'm looking for locations of where a cache use to be before I got into caching in 2006. Swizzle

[GOF and Bacall]

There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove.

 

Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. That property isn't abandoned, it's cached. Second of all the archived Geocaching.com listing just may be listed elsewhere. You better be sure about what you are taking before you take it.

[+swizzle]

There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove.

 

Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. That property isn't abandoned, it's cached. Second of all the archived Geocaching.com listing just may be listed elsewhere. You better be sure about what you are taking before you take it.

 

Well that should be obvious when you pick it up and there's a stash note for another site. "There should be a stash note right?" If its a navicache or something else then the logbook should easily reveal the last person that found it. If the last find was over a year ago and it looks like a geocache then I personally wouldn't have any problems removing it myself. If everything is nice and dry and the contents are still good to go then I'd try to find out who the owner is and email them and see if they want to unarchive it or adopt it out if they are no longer cachin'. I'm talking about removing geotrash, mushy logs and vintage micky d toys. I have no intentions of stealing an ammo can full of geocoins. Most of the caches in 2005 and back were tupperware. At least all that I have found that date back that far. Swizzle

[+paleolith]

If you have a spot in mind, look for caches near it. Look at the ones which have been around for several years. Look at the profiles of finders from several years ago. Look at other caches they found on the same day. If there were other caches in the area now archived, it's likely you will find them this way.

 

More work than a plain search, sure. But it works. I agree that there are reasons for wanting to know about archived caches in the same spot or nearby. One of my caches has a link to two other caches previously in the spot, one archived several years ago.

 

But sometimes caches are archived because there's good reason not to even draw attention to a spot. I think it's for this reason that gc.com isn't gong to provide a search for archived caches, and that it overrides all good reasons for making it easy to find them. Accept it and move on.

 

Or start searching for benchmarks. You want old stuff, look for benchmarks. There are a few that are over 100 years old.

 

Edward

Edited August 12, 2009 by paleolith

[+swizzle]

Here's a copy and paste from my email that the reviewer sent to me about the one spot in question.

 

There never was a cache here. You can view archived caches you have found. You should not need to view any archived caches you have not logged.

 

I think I'm going to email him another spot I want to know about and give him the link to this thread. He did answer my question about this one spot. I don't think he understands the value of these archives. I'm not going to flood him with e-mails though. But its nice to know that he can look up these for me even if it does make him grumpy. Swizzle

[+Allanon]

Here's a copy and paste from my email that the reviewer sent to me about the one spot in question.

 

There never was a cache here. You can view archived caches you have found. You should not need to view any archived caches you have not logged.

 

I think I'm going to email him another spot I want to know about and give him the link to this thread. He did answer my question about this one spot. I don't think he understands the value of these archives. I'm not going to flood him with e-mails though. But its nice to know that he can look up these for me even if it does make him grumpy. Swizzle

He's in good company with a lot of us...

 

Do you really think that's a good idea?

[+sbell111]

There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove.

Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. That property isn't abandoned, it's cached. Second of all the archived Geocaching.com listing just may be listed elsewhere. You better be sure about what you are taking before you take it.

Well that should be obvious when you pick it up and there's a stash note for another site. "There should be a stash note right?" If its a navicache or something else then the logbook should easily reveal the last person that found it. If the last find was over a year ago and it looks like a geocache then I personally wouldn't have any problems removing it myself. ...

Many of us own geocaches that haven't been found in over a year. Many own caches that are listed on more than one site. Many of these cache owners eventually archive their caches on one site, but leave them available on another. Therefore, it is certainly possible that one could locate a cache that is archived on GC.com, has a 'geocaching' stash note, and has a logbook that hasn't been signed in over a year.

 

The bottom line is this. The cache owner owns the box. The permission to place that box in the woods was not contingent on the cache being listed on GC.com. If we are serious about the fact that we actually own the caches that we place, we must also be serious about not removing these items that are owned by someone else unless we are absolutely positively sure that it IS abandoned. The examples that you gave do not provide this level of surety.

 

Here's a copy and paste from my email that the reviewer sent to me about the one spot in question.

 

There never was a cache here. You can view archived caches you have found. You should not need to view any archived caches you have not logged.

 

I think I'm going to email him another spot I want to know about and give him the link to this thread. He did answer my question about this one spot. I don't think he understands the value of these archives. I'm not going to flood him with e-mails though. But its nice to know that he can look up these for me even if it does make him grumpy. Swizzle

I'm wondering why you find this information to be so important that you want to inconvenience him and risk making him grumpy. If you find a great place for a cache, do some of your own research. Determine whether explicit permission is needed at that location. Scout out the location. Do you see a bunch of muggles that are eyeing you suspiciously? Are you in plain view of any structures who's residents might cause problems? Are there good hide locations?

 

All of the questions that you are hoping to have answered by reviewing dead cache pages could be answered by YOU and, as some have already pointed out, would not necessarily be answered by an archived cache page. I would not inconvenience a reviewer by asking for information that I can get on my own and that he might not even have access to. That would be rude, in my opinion.

[+swizzle]

There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove.

Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. That property isn't abandoned, it's cached. Second of all the archived Geocaching.com listing just may be listed elsewhere. You better be sure about what you are taking before you take it.

Well that should be obvious when you pick it up and there's a stash note for another site. "There should be a stash note right?" If its a navicache or something else then the logbook should easily reveal the last person that found it. If the last find was over a year ago and it looks like a geocache then I personally wouldn't have any problems removing it myself. ...

Many of us own geocaches that haven't been found in over a year. Many own caches that are listed on more than one site. Many of these cache owners eventually archive their caches on one site, but leave them available on another. Therefore, it is certainly possible that one could locate a cache that is archived on GC.com, has a 'geocaching' stash note, and has a logbook that hasn't been signed in over a year.

 

The bottom line is this. The cache owner owns the box. The permission to place that box in the woods was not contingent on the cache being listed on GC.com. If we are serious about the fact that we actually own the caches that we place, we must also be serious about not removing these items that are owned by someone else unless we are absolutely positively sure that it IS abandoned. The examples that you gave do not provide this level of surety.

 

Here's a copy and paste from my email that the reviewer sent to me about the one spot in question.

 

There never was a cache here. You can view archived caches you have found. You should not need to view any archived caches you have not logged.

 

I think I'm going to email him another spot I want to know about and give him the link to this thread. He did answer my question about this one spot. I don't think he understands the value of these archives. I'm not going to flood him with e-mails though. But its nice to know that he can look up these for me even if it does make him grumpy. Swizzle

I'm wondering why you find this information to be so important that you want to inconvenience him and risk making him grumpy. If you find a great place for a cache, do some of your own research. Determine whether explicit permission is needed at that location. Scout out the location. Do you see a bunch of muggles that are eyeing you suspiciously? Are you in plain view of any structures who's residents might cause problems? Are there good hide locations?

 

All of the questions that you are hoping to have answered by reviewing dead cache pages could be answered by YOU and, as some have already pointed out, would not necessarily be answered by an archived cache page. I would not inconvenience a reviewer by asking for information that I can get on my own and that he might not even have access to. That would be rude, in my opinion.

 

I re-read the thread about not getting our archives back and it mentions that I can also contact geocaching directly instead of bugging the reviewer. I'll be going that route instead. So we should let our archives rot in the woods without at least trying to contact the CO? To me it makes no sence at all to not use the archives as a part of your research if possible. Like I said before anyone can put a piece of paper in a film can, hide it in the woods and post the coords online. Look at a few of my active caches. I add a decent background, I research the areas myself, online as well as in the field, I research the archives, I've used museum links, historical societies, history markers and more to research. I was going to place another cache yesterday but I was unhappy with the container so I'll be making something special for that location. I try to look at every possible aspect of the cache not just where I can stick a cache and rush home to publish it. If a cache does indeed look like it may still be usable, prehaps a soggy but still signable log then I'll try my best to contact the owner before removing geo"trash". I know I won't get all of the answers from an archived cache page but there's always the possibilty that it does hold some info that I can use. As far as scouting out the place myself goes. I went and placed a cache and enjoyed a few hours next to a nice section of the creek. Later on I got emails and logs about nasty redneck muggles. Look for my archived "Swizzle Creek" cache. If you don't live there then you'll never see all of the good and bad of an area. My archives could warn the next person to place their cache further down the creek and avoid a bad situation. Even potentially dangerous. One of the cachers actually felt threatened and called the police. If this can be avoided by reading an archived cache page then why not use it. I really don't see the point in your arguement at all. As far as removing a cache then yes. I will make absolutely sure a cache is abandoned on every sight I know. I'll even wait until the thing is a rotten pile of mush if it makes everyone happier. But geotrash should be removed if not by the CO who abandoned it then by another cacher who wants to help maintain a good name for cachers everywhere. Swizzle

Edited August 12, 2009 by swizzle

[+sbell111]

There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove.

Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. That property isn't abandoned, it's cached. Second of all the archived Geocaching.com listing just may be listed elsewhere. You better be sure about what you are taking before you take it.

Well that should be obvious when you pick it up and there's a stash note for another site. "There should be a stash note right?" If its a navicache or something else then the logbook should easily reveal the last person that found it. If the last find was over a year ago and it looks like a geocache then I personally wouldn't have any problems removing it myself. ...

Many of us own geocaches that haven't been found in over a year. Many own caches that are listed on more than one site. Many of these cache owners eventually archive their caches on one site, but leave them available on another. Therefore, it is certainly possible that one could locate a cache that is archived on GC.com, has a 'geocaching' stash note, and has a logbook that hasn't been signed in over a year.

 

The bottom line is this. The cache owner owns the box. The permission to place that box in the woods was not contingent on the cache being listed on GC.com. If we are serious about the fact that we actually own the caches that we place, we must also be serious about not removing these items that are owned by someone else unless we are absolutely positively sure that it IS abandoned. The examples that you gave do not provide this level of surety.

 

Here's a copy and paste from my email that the reviewer sent to me about the one spot in question.

 

There never was a cache here. You can view archived caches you have found. You should not need to view any archived caches you have not logged.

 

I think I'm going to email him another spot I want to know about and give him the link to this thread. He did answer my question about this one spot. I don't think he understands the value of these archives. I'm not going to flood him with e-mails though. But its nice to know that he can look up these for me even if it does make him grumpy. Swizzle

I'm wondering why you find this information to be so important that you want to inconvenience him and risk making him grumpy. If you find a great place for a cache, do some of your own research. Determine whether explicit permission is needed at that location. Scout out the location. Do you see a bunch of muggles that are eyeing you suspiciously? Are you in plain view of any structures who's residents might cause problems? Are there good hide locations?

 

All of the questions that you are hoping to have answered by reviewing dead cache pages could be answered by YOU and, as some have already pointed out, would not necessarily be answered by an archived cache page. I would not inconvenience a reviewer by asking for information that I can get on my own and that he might not even have access to. That would be rude, in my opinion.

 

I re-read the thread about not getting our archives back and it mentions that I can also contact geocaching directly instead of bugging the reviewer. I'll be going that route instead. So we should let our archives rot in the woods without at least trying to contact the CO? To me it makes no sence at all to not use the archives as a part of your research if possible. Like I said before anyone can put a piece of paper in a film can, hide it in the woods and post the coords online. Look at a few of my active caches. I add a decent background, I research the areas myself, online as well as in the field, I research the archives, I've used museum links, historical societies, history markers and more to research. I was going to place another cache yesterday but I was unhappy with the container so I'll be making something special for that location. I try to look at every possible aspect of the cache not just where I can stick a cache and rush home to publish it. If a cache does indeed look like it may still be usable, prehaps a soggy but still signable log then I'll try my best to contact the owner before removing geo"trash". I know I won't get all of the answers from an archived cache page but there's always the possibilty that it does hold some info that I can use. As far as scouting out the place myself goes. I went and placed a cache and enjoyed a few hours next to a nice section of the creek. Later on I got emails and logs about nasty redneck muggles. Look for my archived "Swizzle Creek" cache. If you don't live there then you'll never see all of the good and bad of an area. My archives could warn the next person to place their cache further down the creek and avoid a bad situation. Even potentially dangerous. One of the cachers actually felt threatened and called the police. If this can be avoided by reading an archived cache page then why not use it. I really don't see the point in your arguement at all. As far as removing a cache then yes. I will make absolutely sure a cache is abandoned on every sight I know. I'll even wait until the thing is a rotten pile of mush if it makes everyone happier. But geotrash should be removed if not by the CO who abandoned it then by another cacher who wants to help maintain a good name for cachers everywhere. Swizzle

Wow. That was some post. It's too bad that you didn't bother to use paragraph breaks and some other format other than stream of consciousness. It really would have helped improve readability.

 

I'm sorry that you failed to to find the point in my post. I did draft it carefully to allow it to best convey my message. I just reread it and it actually seems to be right on track. Perhaps you could give it another read. If you think about what it actually says, you might be able to suss it's meaning.

[+swizzle]

Time Limit: Yes I believe there should be a time limit between a cache that has been archived and when someone is allowed to remove it providing that it is indeed geotrash and not crosslisted anywhere's else. Sorry if you disagree but that is indeed the way I feel and I think that should be part of the agreement of placing a cache. There seems to be a bit of a mix up in communication here. Archived for a year, Not found for a year and then archived is not what I am talking about. Before removal is made there must be an honest attempt to contact the owner on any cache site. Is that a little better? Not trying to sound arrogant, just asking.

 

 

I'm wondering why you find this information to be so important that you want to inconvenience him and risk making him grumpy. If you find a great place for a cache, do some of your own research. Determine whether explicit permission is needed at that location. Scout out the location. Do you see a bunch of muggles that are eyeing you suspiciously? Are you in plain view of any structures who's residents might cause problems? Are there good hide locations?

 

I gave a list of reasons why an archive can be so important and gave my own example of my archived Swizzle Creek cache. I do my own research, look over maps for hours, talk to DEC officals, State officals that have authority over the lake I'll be placing caches on, visit museums and talk to the museum currators, talk to local historians and historical societies, search cemeteries for important figures, use the internet to scan town, city and village history pages, talk to locals, other cachers and do my own foot work hiking to spots that are seemingly in the middle of no where's. Add helpful links to my pages when I feel its neccesary. I've sought after and gain permission several times, gained a special permit for 3 of my caches and I don't run up to the first tree hole I see and throw a cache in it. Most of my caches are specilty caches made for a certain situation. I even painted a picture of the old covered bride on my old covered bridge cache. Archives are just one of the many tools that I use to find locations and to get information from.

 

All of the questions that you are hoping to have answered by reviewing dead cache pages could be answered by YOU and, as some have already pointed out, would not necessarily be answered by an archived cache page. I would not inconvenience a reviewer by asking for information that I can get on my own and that he might not even have access to. That would be rude, in my opinion.

 

I don't believe its true in every case that I can answer all of these questions myself by doing the research without using every tool available. I will contact geocaching directly to answer any more of my archive questions. I hope that's a little more organized and easier to understand now. Any there any more questions that I forgot to answer for you? These are all just my opinion so please keep that in mind. Some people can fix a car with a hammer. I prefer to have my whole tool box set and ready to go. Swizzle

[+Renegade Knight]

... Seems simple enough to email my reviewer and ask "Were there any caches that used be here that are archived and if so why were they archived?" Then I can use that information to decide if I want to try putting a new cache in that location or perhaps what I could do differently so that my cache won't have the same problems. I don't see why I would need to find all the old archived locations just out of curiosity as to where someone might have had a cache in the past....

 

History is it's own reward. While you don't have to look up all the old caches in an area, you or at least a cache history buff would have the option. Plus why burden a reviewer with the query when a simple archived database could be made available for all to use? This is part of the master plan for my non existant geocacher owned and controlled site. I've seen some sites come and go, and the loss of logs and history that they took with them is regrettable.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. ...

 

I've thought about this. You would need to build it into the system so a cache owner knows that listing a cache and then abandoning it would result in a "CRM" cache upon archiving. CRM being Cache Rescue Mission where a bonus find is givne to the person who pulls the cache. You would use a CRM when the cache owner doesn't indicate they will pick up the cache. If the owner says "Yup, I'll get it" it's fair to take them at their word. IF they just fade away it can be set up in the TOS that they accepted that if they dissapear for a fair amount of time and don't respond to official emails that after a fair notice that the cache will be converted to a CRM when it's not viable anymore.

 

You can do this in a way that's very favorable to the cache owner but also makes sure that litter is accounted for.

[+swizzle]

...Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. ...

 

I've thought about this. You would need to build it into the system so a cache owner knows that listing a cache and then abandoning it would result in a "CRM" cache upon archiving. CRM being Cache Rescue Mission where a bonus find is givne to the person who pulls the cache. You would use a CRM when the cache owner doesn't indicate they will pick up the cache. If the owner says "Yup, I'll get it" it's fair to take them at their word. IF they just fade away it can be set up in the TOS that they accepted that if they dissapear for a fair amount of time and don't respond to official emails that after a fair notice that the cache will be converted to a CRM when it's not viable anymore.

 

You can do this in a way that's very favorable to the cache owner but also makes sure that litter is accounted for.

 

Yeah what he said.

[+sbell111]

...Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. ...

 

I've thought about this. You would need to build it into the system so a cache owner knows that listing a cache and then abandoning it would result in a "CRM" cache upon archiving. CRM being Cache Rescue Mission where a bonus find is givne to the person who pulls the cache. You would use a CRM when the cache owner doesn't indicate they will pick up the cache. If the owner says "Yup, I'll get it" it's fair to take them at their word. IF they just fade away it can be set up in the TOS that they accepted that if they dissapear for a fair amount of time and don't respond to official emails that after a fair notice that the cache will be converted to a CRM when it's not viable anymore.

 

You can do this in a way that's very favorable to the cache owner but also makes sure that litter is accounted for.

 

Yeah what he said.

I've always been in agreement with RK on this issue. However, RK's solution to this problam is much different than what you proposed in your previous posts. His solution requires a front end change to the listing agreement, while yours is just a random cachers assumption regarding property owned by someone else.

[+swizzle]

I've always been in agreement with RK on this issue. However, RK's solution to this problam is much different than what you proposed in your previous posts. His solution requires a front end change to the listing agreement, while yours is just a random cachers assumption regarding property owned by someone else.

 

I like RK's solution myself. Its more formal and legit. You should know right from the start if your cache has been archived for a year and you have not made an effort to retrieve it then it should automatically be turned over. Likewise I think if you archive it as a geocache and say keep it as a navicache it should be posted in your archive note that it is no longer a geocache but a cache for another online scavenger hunt. It should be rather obvious if the cache is still being used. Even if its not being used and the contents are still in good condition then leave it until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that its definately been abandoned or have permission to remove it from the owner. If the container is still good to go then I think I would leave it and place another cache close by. Far enough away so others aren't stumbling on it but close enough so the CO can't re-activate it without contacting me first and working out some kind of arrangement. I'm sure there's situations of geocachers getting out of caching "for good" only to return a few years later. If that's the case then they need to know that unmaintain caches over an extended period of time can and do get the cito treatment or archived with or without their knowledge. Email addresses can change and without re-registering a new account you might not know about the NM and SBA notes on your caches until its to late. I understand that as a possibilty as well. In most cases if the CO came back and I'm sitting on his old cache spot then a simple email could persuade me to let him have his/her spot back. Depending on the situation I may even let them adopt the cache I already have set or provide them with a new container, stash note, and log. Just add swag and they're good to go. I think 90%+ would be happy that you removed their Geotrash and then worked with them to get their old spot back. I think as part of my negotiating I would tell them if they leave geocaching again for a period of time then let me adopt the cache back. That way its being properly maintained in their absence. I wouldn't make an arrangement like this for a P&G but for a waterfall cache or a nice hike to an overlook I would definately do it. Swizzle

[+baloo&bd]

Now that some sort of solution has been identified, with luck, someday maybe there will be a problem to apply it too.

[+sbell111]

Now that some sort of solution has been identified, with luck, someday maybe there will be a problem to apply it too.

[+wimseyguy]

There should be a time limit that a cache need to be removed by before it is considered geotrash and available for anyone in the geocaching community to remove.

 

Careful there. First off who gets to decide when my cache stops being mine and is suddenly free for the taking. That property isn't abandoned, it's cached. Second of all the archived Geocaching.com listing just may be listed elsewhere. You better be sure about what you are taking before you take it.

 

Well that should be obvious when you pick it up and there's a stash note for another site. "There should be a stash note right?" If its a navicache or something else then the logbook should easily reveal the last person that found it. If the last find was over a year ago and it looks like a geocache then I personally wouldn't have any problems removing it myself. If everything is nice and dry and the contents are still good to go then I'd try to find out who the owner is and email them and see if they want to unarchive it or adopt it out if they are no longer cachin'. I'm talking about removing geotrash, mushy logs and vintage micky d toys. I have no intentions of stealing an ammo can full of geocoins. Most of the caches in 2005 and back were tupperware. At least all that I have found that date back that far. Swizzle

 

1. Be careful with gross generalizations. I think there are far more older ammo cans out there than tupperware, but I don't have any hard data to back that up. Just seven years of looking for them, and a few finds as well. Also, old listings may not always use the original container, but still be an active listing.

 

2. Some of us really enjoy looking for those old caches, especially when we are traveling. Some of us even maintain bookmark lists of old, and really old caches to help others target them. I thought it was a very cool weekend when I found the oldest caches in both NH and RI. Your proposed time limit would eliminate that option.

 

3. Caches should contain the stash note, but it isn't required. If you are concerned with trash removal, host a CITO event. If you are concerned with removing geotrash, then start harassing the owners of those caches you deem unworthy. I'm sure you'll make lots of new friends that way.

Edited August 13, 2009 by wimseyguy