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Are group finds fair?


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While caching in Derbyshire last week, we met a couple of cachers doing a circuit in the opposite way to us. We exchanged pleasantries, then continued on our way. When we went to log the next cache, we saw that the couple had logged 3 seperate names. This was done on each of the logs in the rest of the series. (Same pen, same writing) Is this what is meant when people write that they were caching with so & so today? And does it mean that so & so are doing another lot of caches elsewhere and logging other people's names in the log books? And if this is the case, how can people say they have X number of finds, when they clearly have never been anywhere near the cache, let alone signed the log themselves? Isn't this cheating, or have we got the wrong end of the stick? :)

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Before you accuse them of cheating, are you certain that they don't both have at least one caching account?

 

My partner and I each have our own accounts, from long before we got together. We also have a separate account for caches we do together as a team.

 

And at the end of the day, who are they cheating? Not you or I - or anybody else around here. I've been caching for five and a half years, and stopped being impressed by numbers about five and a half years ago (give or take a week :) ) when I first realised that just because I find all my finds, there is nothing in any rulebook to say that everybody else has to.

Edited by keehotee
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As it's not a competitive pastime, there's no question of fairness or cheating. As long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's enjoyment you can do what you like.

 

You could say that a family group caching together is always "cheating", as it's easier for a group to find a cache than it is for an individual.

 

The web site is primarily for you to record your finds (according to your own definition) and it's not really anyone else's business, as long as a physical find was actually made on that date (fake logging can cause problems if it causes people to think that a cache is in place when this hasn't actually been checked).

 

So if the couple in question were also logging on behalf of others, the only (very minor) problem I see is that they may take up an undue amount of space in the log book. I don't know whether this is common practice, but I don't really care.

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As keehotee says, we have a joint account so even though there are two of us, we may actually log three times (one each and one as a joint)

 

Or did they have a dog? Many cachers create accounts for their geohounds. You might find that the extra account is explainable that way.

 

IF they are cheating, then they are only cheating themselves.

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Last Saturday I did 3 caches near Brean. At that same time MrB was in Weston doing some other caches. All these caches were logged under our joint account name.

 

Is everyone OK with that? :laughing:

 

MrsB

 

MrsB!!! How could you?!!!

 

Sure he wasn't up at Gordano logging all his socks into a peach jar??

 

:):D:laughing:

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Would these have been the pirate mania series by any chance.

Out of all 25 you wont once find my name, or several other cachers names. We were all out walking and searching together. we signed the logs with a team name to save space on the log. On atleast one occasion I signed the log on behalf of 2 other cachers to save them having to clamber up a steep and slippy slope. They stayed on the path.

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Do I need to confess that I wasn't actually present when some of "our" cache finds were made? :)

 

MrsB

I don't think that anyone here is arguing that any such logging is "cheating". You're not even cheating yourself, in my view, as there's not really any way you can cheat at a non-competitive game. As far as I know, if the cache was actually known to have been found on that day then you can log a find. Personally, I almost always sign the log myself before I count it as a "found it", but I realise I don't have to.

 

There are so many grey areas, it would be ridiculous to have detailed rules. What if you're caching with your friends but fall behind, and by the time you get to the location the cache has been found and signed on your behalf? You didn't have anything to do with it, but convention is that you count it as "found". Because the alternative is to have a ludicrous and impractical charade whereby the cache is replaced and you find it again.

Edited by Happy Humphrey
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OK then let us take this one step further. I recently placed a TB outside but attached to a micro. It would have been harder to leave the TB than take it but it took three log entries for the TB to move and the previous two made no mention of it. A quick scoot out to check the logbook showed that it had not been signed by either one of the two. Whatismore one of those making the log entries had averaged over twenty finds a day over the last week. Is this geocaching without leaving home? The shame is that those racking up an incredible number of finds are being questioned rather than receiving the just rewards for their achievement.

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OK then let us take this one step further. I recently placed a TB outside but attached to a micro. It would have been harder to leave the TB than take it but it took three log entries for the TB to move and the previous two made no mention of it. A quick scoot out to check the logbook showed that it had not been signed by either one of the two. Whatismore one of those making the log entries had averaged over twenty finds a day over the last week. Is this geocaching without leaving home? The shame is that those racking up an incredible number of finds are being questioned rather than receiving the just rewards for their achievement.

 

If you're the cache owner and you have good reason to believe that certain on-line Found logs for your cache are false then it's up to you to investigate (if you can be bothered) and if there's no satisfactory explanation for why the log book is unsigned then you can delete the on-line log (if you can be bothered).

 

20 finds in one day would be not be exceptional for a numbers hunter who was on a holiday specially planned around geocaching hotspots: Even I managed 14 in one day and I'm certainly not in it for the numbers! :) I understand that in some parts of USA you can pick up 20 finds in a couple of hours.

 

As others have pointed out, there is no "just reward" for incredible numbers of finds - only a warm glow of satisfaction if you personally are happy with your own form of "cache accounting".

 

MrsB

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As others have pointed out, there is no "just reward" for incredible numbers of finds - only a warm glow of satisfaction if you personally are happy with your own form of "cache accounting".

 

There's no reward?!!!! You mean I've been doing all this walking... FOR NOTHING! I expected at least a set of commemorative glasses! :):D

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As others have pointed out, there is no "just reward" for incredible numbers of finds - only a warm glow of satisfaction if you personally are happy with your own form of "cache accounting".

 

There's no reward?!!!! You mean I've been doing all this walking... FOR NOTHING! I expected at least a set of commemorative glasses! :):D

 

Well... you could go and buy yourself one of those Geocaching Achievement geocoins for "added warm glow" value. :laughing:

 

MrsB

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We too post as a team. There are 2 of us and one account. As I (Mrs-Rat) do the vast majority of the typing I long ago decided that life was too short to log everything twice (once for each of us), one account for the pair of us was just fine and dandy.

So maybe having 2 people making one log between then counterbalances those who have 3 accounts between 2 :D

 

As its a non-competetive obsession, I mean hobby I don't suppose the numbers really count. Some of our friends have an account each and the 'team' account for when they cache as a couple. I can't see the problem with it myself

 

Mrs-Rat

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OK then let us take this one step further. I recently placed a TB outside but attached to a micro. It would have been harder to leave the TB than take it but it took three log entries for the TB to move and the previous two made no mention of it. A quick scoot out to check the logbook showed that it had not been signed by either one of the two. Whatismore one of those making the log entries had averaged over twenty finds a day over the last week. Is this geocaching without leaving home? The shame is that those racking up an incredible number of finds are being questioned rather than receiving the just rewards for their achievement.

 

There is no reward for achievement apart from that warm inner glow you get at the end of a good walk :D

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OK then let us take this one step further. I recently placed a TB outside but attached to a micro. It would have been harder to leave the TB than take it but it took three log entries for the TB to move and the previous two made no mention of it. A quick scoot out to check the logbook showed that it had not been signed by either one of the two. Whatismore one of those making the log entries had averaged over twenty finds a day over the last week. Is this geocaching without leaving home? The shame is that those racking up an incredible number of finds are being questioned rather than receiving the just rewards for their achievement.

 

There is no reward for achievement apart from that warm inner glow you get at the end of a good walk :D

 

And the satisfaction of having done a really difficult cache.

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I often cache with Yorkypudding and Ageinghippy. Sometimes we all sign the logbook, sometimes I will sign for them, or they will sign for me. But I was always there when the cache was found. There have been occasions when I have been caching with other teams and we have DNFed a cache, and the others have subsequently found the cache on a later visit. If they told me they had signed my name in the logbook, I never logged online. If I'm not there I don't get the smilie. How others play the game is up to them.

 

I used to get wound up by teams who cache in two groups in different areas on the same day, but then I realised that getting annoyed just spoilt my caching experience. Are they doing it for the numbers? Probably. Do I care? Not any more. Life is too short.

Edited by Tizzie
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Who cares anyway? If people 'cheat', practice false accounting, creative accounting, or any sort of accounting different from your own it doesn't matter as long as they are happy with it.

 

And, knowing that numbers can be 'created', you can allow yourself a wry smile - whether justified or not - when you see those with zillions of caches under their belts. If it still bothers you that is :P

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Agree with Parkmoy - play the game the way you want. If someone else wants to play a different way - let them .

 

It's not about the numbers / FTF's /Travel Bugs/Geocoins /Mega Events/ Events/ Earthcaches / CITO events/ micro's/ ammo cans etc/etc . Delete or add to this list as you require :(:)

Its about what you want it to be about and what makes you happy .

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The way I look at it, if you cheat, you're only cheating yourself in 'caching.

 

There's nothing to stop you logging 10,000 caches, saying you were there and so on. I own (or have owned) 64 caches. I never check the logs against what's actually in the logbook. I don't have the time and in all honesty, I don't really care.

 

I know many of the high-number cachers and if and when you're caching with them, you know they've done that many caches because they find them quickly and efficiently (despite doing well over 1000, I am still very amateur)

 

Like Mouse and Keehotee, I met my OH through 'caching and we've got different numbers. I have 2 kids from a previous who have their own accounts. So we log through 4 times if all 4 of us are there.

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How many of you find your own caches under a pseudonym. i.e hide it with one account and find it with your most regular one? I think its very silly and I wouldn't do it myself but I certainly have no objection to others doing it. :laughing: The thing I can never understand is why do it under pseudonym? Why not simply log your own caches as finds? Its not as if the owner will delete your log. :laughing:

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