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jakiesfolks

Oregon or PN-40

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Hey, Roddy is back. Thought maybe you were lost in the briars as a result of your difficulties with your Oregon. :laughing:

 

Sorry I haven’t quite compiled everything here yet, but what I’ve found in comparing my Dakota and PN-40 so far would show there is some truth in both sides of the argument here. The PN-40 is indeed more stable, appearing to do some averaging and data buffering in the field, making the compass jump around less, and giving more consistent directions. I’m not sure it’s necessarily any more accurate though, as accuracy appears to be fairly close when you compare the two. Both units are a whole lot easier to use compass page wise than any of the non 3 axis compass handhelds I’ve ever use, but with practice the non 3 axis compass can work quite well.

 

Anyway, got to run. I’ll try to get some track examples up this weekend, which when set for every couple seconds clearly indicates why Roddy is finding units other than his PN-40 appear to jump around a great deal when closing in on the destination. I’ll also be including areas where I’ve made trail networks which in a nutshell is averaging out of multiple tracks which is interesting in it’s own way.

 

I truly don't think the jumping around I experienced in the woods was normal, but want to play around just a bit more to find out if it's ongoing or a unique event! Might take it back this weekend, but still time to run it around a bit!!

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The OR has yet to lock WAAS that I have seen...not once in the week or so I've owned it!

Check to make sure that WAAS/EGNOS is enabled on the unit, from what I've seen, it is generally disabled on new handheld units.

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The OR has yet to lock WAAS that I have seen...not once in the week or so I've owned it!

Check to make sure that WAAS/EGNOS is enabled on the unit, from what I've seen, it is generally disabled on new handheld units.

 

I did enable it the first time I used it, but good thought!! :laughing:

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The OR has yet to lock WAAS that I have seen...not once in the week or so I've owned it!

Check to make sure that WAAS/EGNOS is enabled on the unit, from what I've seen, it is generally disabled on new handheld units.

 

I did enable it the first time I used it, but good thought!! :laughing:

It was worth checking. I stand with what I recommended before, stay with the PN-40.

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The OR has yet to lock WAAS that I have seen...not once in the week or so I've owned it!

Check to make sure that WAAS/EGNOS is enabled on the unit, from what I've seen, it is generally disabled on new handheld units.

 

I did enable it the first time I used it, but good thought!! :laughing:

It was worth checking. I stand with what I recommended before, stay with the PN-40.

 

That's a no-brainer for me, I am more than happy with my PN-40! As I sat here and typed out a few responses, my PN-40 locked WAAS again for the second time since I first fired it up after receiving it yesterday...right on my desk! MAN, you gotta love that!

Edited by Rockin Roddy

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Hey, Roddy is back. Thought maybe you were lost in the briars as a result of your difficulties with your Oregon. :laughing:

 

Sorry I haven’t quite compiled everything here yet, but what I’ve found in comparing my Dakota and PN-40 so far would show there is some truth in both sides of the argument here. The PN-40 is indeed more stable, appearing to do some averaging and data buffering in the field, making the compass jump around less, and giving more consistent directions. I’m not sure it’s necessarily any more accurate though, as accuracy appears to be fairly close when you compare the two. Both units are a whole lot easier to use compass page wise than any of the non 3 axis compass handhelds I’ve ever use, but with practice the non 3 axis compass can work quite well.

 

Anyway, got to run. I’ll try to get some track examples up this weekend, which when set for every couple seconds clearly indicates why Roddy is finding units other than his PN-40 appear to jump around a great deal when closing in on the destination. I’ll also be including areas where I’ve made trail networks which in a nutshell is averaging out of multiple tracks which is interesting in it’s own way.

 

I truly don't think the jumping around I experienced in the woods was normal, but want to play around just a bit more to find out if it's ongoing or a unique event! Might take it back this weekend, but still time to run it around a bit!!

 

Actually, I think a big part of the problem you're experiencing comes from switching from a 3 axis compass to the non compensated sort where just a couple degrees of tilt from level has a big impact on positional accuracy. The "Holding Level" technique takes a while to learn. You might be having difficulties with the unit switching the electronic compass on and off at the speed you're moving. Finally, even with everything steady, the PN-40 does do a really good job of buffering data to where you have a steady accuracte reading. All that said, other than for geocaching, I like my Dakota 20 quite a bit better. It's just one of those "Fits me" sort of things.

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It's just one of those "Fits me" sort of things.

Probably one of the best statements made in these forums in a very long time.

 

It would be nice if some suspects had this same attitude instead of being vehement against one brand over another.

Edited by TotemLake

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Hey, Roddy is back. Thought maybe you were lost in the briars as a result of your difficulties with your Oregon. :laughing:

 

Sorry I haven’t quite compiled everything here yet, but what I’ve found in comparing my Dakota and PN-40 so far would show there is some truth in both sides of the argument here. The PN-40 is indeed more stable, appearing to do some averaging and data buffering in the field, making the compass jump around less, and giving more consistent directions. I’m not sure it’s necessarily any more accurate though, as accuracy appears to be fairly close when you compare the two. Both units are a whole lot easier to use compass page wise than any of the non 3 axis compass handhelds I’ve ever use, but with practice the non 3 axis compass can work quite well.

 

Anyway, got to run. I’ll try to get some track examples up this weekend, which when set for every couple seconds clearly indicates why Roddy is finding units other than his PN-40 appear to jump around a great deal when closing in on the destination. I’ll also be including areas where I’ve made trail networks which in a nutshell is averaging out of multiple tracks which is interesting in it’s own way.

 

I truly don't think the jumping around I experienced in the woods was normal, but want to play around just a bit more to find out if it's ongoing or a unique event! Might take it back this weekend, but still time to run it around a bit!!

 

Actually, I think a big part of the problem you're experiencing comes from switching from a 3 axis compass to the non compensated sort where just a couple degrees of tilt from level has a big impact on positional accuracy. The "Holding Level" technique takes a while to learn. You might be having difficulties with the unit switching the electronic compass on and off at the speed you're moving. Finally, even with everything steady, the PN-40 does do a really good job of buffering data to where you have a steady accuracte reading. All that said, other than for geocaching, I like my Dakota 20 quite a bit better. It's just one of those "Fits me" sort of things.

 

That "holding level" apect is a BIG turnoff for me, I would rather be comfortable while using the unit than worried I'm not holding it correctly and hoping I'm getting good info! However, I seriously doubt the compass has anything to do with the unit leading me almost .2 miles off-course once and had me circling at around 200'+ away from the cache we were searching on another...or the other freakishly strange occurances we've noticed.

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It's just one of those "Fits me" sort of things.

Probably one of the best statements made in these forums in a very long time.

 

It would be nice if some suspects had this same attitude instead of being vehement against one brand over another.

 

The unit that "fits" me best is the one that works best for my usage. Most of us cannot give a good comparison as to any other units since we buy what others tell us is good and are then left wondering what the other camps have. THANKFULLY, I had the opportunity to check out the other camp and, while I am still convinced my OR has issues, I did get the chance to see what all the hype was about. There are some things I like about the OR, but the PN-40 is my "fit"! Even if the OR had been working properly, I would likely still feel this way...

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As Briansnat said, it's not really with either of the GPS units (Oregon/PN_40) where the problems lie. It's really the software and proprietary paranoia of manufacturer "D". "Clunky" is a very appropriate word for the software! There is much more that you cannot do, than what you can. (import/export/format conversions,etc)

 

As a PN-40/TOPO 8 user, just try and use multiple 3rd party softwares to import /export convert and exchange data with other GPS users in any one of multiple formats. Delorme doesn't want/allow that. THEY want to tell YOU what you want/need in the way of formats.(and capabilities)....except of course if you want to lay out big$ for more of their (again limited) software.

 

Many 3rd party developers won't even try to work with them due to past experience.

 

If you own a Delorme and are satisfied...Great!

I'm very happy for you and what you have "settled for".

Give it a breatk GC. It can also be said if you're content with going to all the third party software to do what DeLorme can do with one package, then I'm very happy for you and what you have settled for.

 

TL,

I really can't let the " what Delorme can do with one package" (absolutely incorrect Farce statement), go unchallenged.

 

Try some of these with only your "one package"....good luck!

 

1.Have someone send you a NG TOPO file (tpo) with Tracks and waypoints. Using only your "one package", open it and do whatever editing may need to be done. Then save the data in "gpx" format to send to several folks, Oh and yeah, there's the other guy that only has ArcView so you'll need to export all the data in Shapefile format for him. Also for use in GE you'll need kml,and kmz, and for CAD you'll want the data in dxf. ( and too many more to list)

2.The ArcView guy also has some data to send to you (in shp format) so you'll also need to be able to do some of the above actions in reverse also.

3.Someone sends you a track ( what format ?)of a hike you want to make. (either hand drawn or GPSd). You really need to have an elevation profile for info before your hike. Oops, the elevation data is missing in the file....go ahead and have your "one package" accurately create the elevation profile.....from the original data, not traced over.

4. etc,etc,etc

 

Gimme A Break! I can do all of the above within ONE software !!....and can also zoom in close enough to see what your PN40 tracks REALLY look like when overlayed on Aerial Photos where you can see visible trails.

 

Delorme with it's "one package" software is so far behind in capabilities , that they are out of touch with reality and think that they are in the lead!........but they will gladly sell you more for $$$ so that you can do a "tad" more, and more $$ for more......

Edited by Grasscatcher

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As Briansnat said, it's not really with either of the GPS units (Oregon/PN_40) where the problems lie. It's really the software and proprietary paranoia of manufacturer "D". "Clunky" is a very appropriate word for the software! There is much more that you cannot do, than what you can. (import/export/format conversions,etc)

 

As a PN-40/TOPO 8 user, just try and use multiple 3rd party softwares to import /export convert and exchange data with other GPS users in any one of multiple formats. Delorme doesn't want/allow that. THEY want to tell YOU what you want/need in the way of formats.(and capabilities)....except of course if you want to lay out big$ for more of their (again limited) software.

 

Many 3rd party developers won't even try to work with them due to past experience.

 

If you own a Delorme and are satisfied...Great!

I'm very happy for you and what you have "settled for".

Give it a breatk GC. It can also be said if you're content with going to all the third party software to do what DeLorme can do with one package, then I'm very happy for you and what you have settled for.

 

TL,

I really can't let the " what Delorme can do with one package" (absolutely incorrect Farce statement), go unchallenged.

 

Try some of these with only your "one package"....good luck!

 

1.Have someone send you a NG TOPO file (tpo) with Tracks and waypoints. Using only your "one package", open it and do whatever editing may need to be done. Then save the data in "gpx" format to send to several folks, Oh and yeah, there's the other guy that only has ArcView so you'll need to export all the data in Shapefile format for him. Also for use in GE you'll need kml,and kmz, and for CAD you'll want the data in dxf. ( and too many more to list)

2.The ArcView guy also has some data to send to you (in shp format) so you'll also need to be able to do some of the above actions in reverse also.

3.Someone sends you a track ( what format ?)of a hike you want to make. (either hand drawn or GPSd). You really need to have an elevation profile for info before your hike. Oops, the elevation data is missing in the file....go ahead and have your "one package" accurately create the elevation profile.....from the original data, not traced over.

4. etc,etc,etc

 

Gimme A Break! I can do all of the above within ONE software !!....and can also zoom in close enough to see what your PN40 tracks REALLY look like when overlayed on Aerial Photos where you can see visible trails.

 

Delorme with it's "one package" software is so far behind in capabilities , that they are out of touch with reality and think that they are in the lead!........but they will gladly sell you more for $$$ so that you can do a "tad" more, and more $$ for more......

 

I'm sure there are MANY users wishing to do just what you described too.... :anicute::laughing::P Can you tell me, just how simple (or intricately difficult) these processes might be and, do you suppose the normal user would even THINK to want to do these?? Or even the more advanced??

 

Maybe you should give US a break! The Garmin you say can do all this is a BUNCH more money than the PN, so I would suggest the money argument is a wash....but I'm sure you knew this! And, having owned an OR 300, I can tell you, the "free" maps I saw were not even CLOSE to the free maps INCLUDED with the DeLorme, so anyone wanting real maps will need to pay or make their own, same for routing...can't route with those free maps, can you?

 

I wonder how many users would even know what ArcView is and, if someone needs it does that mean they too are using an inferior unit? ;)

 

Maybe you should start telling the whole story? Maybe you might disclose just how much your spectacular unit (which can do all of this) really costs in the end....you know, after buying everything needed? I know I'm intrigued!

 

ETA...oh, and since you sound like this is important to you, can you please let us know how many times this has come up and you've needed to do these processes?? Obviously, it must have been a lot since you seem so bent that other units can't do this...right??

Edited by Rockin Roddy

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1.Have someone send you a NG TOPO file (tpo) with Tracks and waypoints. Using only your "one package", open it and do whatever editing may need to be done. Then save the data in "gpx" format to send to several folks, Oh and yeah, there's the other guy that only has ArcView so you'll need to export all the data in Shapefile format for him. Also for use in GE you'll need kml,and kmz, and for CAD you'll want the data in dxf. ( and too many more to list)

2.The ArcView guy also has some data to send to you (in shp format) so you'll also need to be able to do some of the above actions in reverse also.

3.Someone sends you a track ( what format ?)of a hike you want to make. (either hand drawn or GPSd). You really need to have an elevation profile for info before your hike. Oops, the elevation data is missing in the file....go ahead and have your "one package" accurately create the elevation profile.....from the original data, not traced over.

4. etc,etc,etc

 

I can do all of the above within ONE software !!....and can also zoom in close enough to see what your PN40 tracks REALLY look like when overlayed on Aerial Photos where you can see visible trails.

Name of this miracle product, and the price too please.

Perhaps even a link to the manufacturer could be included in your follow-up posting.

 

Thank-you very much.

Norm

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1.Have someone send you a NG TOPO file (tpo) with Tracks and waypoints. Using only your "one package", open it and do whatever editing may need to be done. Then save the data in "gpx" format to send to several folks, Oh and yeah, there's the other guy that only has ArcView so you'll need to export all the data in Shapefile format for him. Also for use in GE you'll need kml,and kmz, and for CAD you'll want the data in dxf. ( and too many more to list)

2.The ArcView guy also has some data to send to you (in shp format) so you'll also need to be able to do some of the above actions in reverse also.

3.Someone sends you a track ( what format ?)of a hike you want to make. (either hand drawn or GPSd). You really need to have an elevation profile for info before your hike. Oops, the elevation data is missing in the file....go ahead and have your "one package" accurately create the elevation profile.....from the original data, not traced over.

4. etc,etc,etc

 

Your problem? you keep presenting a moving target. First you tout for the general user, then you go for the more advanced user to professional user.

 

Topo 8 imports and exports GPX which can then use GPSBabel to do most of what you name off here.

 

Name one Garmin package that does that without GPSBabel plus the below without further use of third party tools.

 

Topo 8 can take on USGS 1:24K, Hi - Res aerials, standard B&W aerials and color aerials and satellite imagery as well as it's own vector based maps. I can also include in one package, trails that I can create or import and make them routable.

 

With text based imports, I can include any draw layer image including shapes, polygons and boundaries of all types, including a recently added layer for the DeLorme challenge where the page boundaries are added. With the use of the ever simple notepad or sedt, I can also set up a circle around a cache or caches to note when I'm outside the 528 foot limitation (or any other arbitrary distance) for adding a new cache in the area... all loadable and visible onto the GPS. Can your Garmin do that in one package provided by Garmin? Or do you have to resort to all those third party tools to do the same thing?

 

The DeLorme package is more complete than you let on. It provides more tools for the average user and with the tool like GPSBabel, allows the average user to export to more file formats. There's also an ongoing discussion in the DeLorme forums on figuring out how to export to the KML/KMZ formats. So, as the reader can see here, DeLorme is a contender in this arena and as time goes on will be just as versatile as other brands.

 

=-=-Edited to add, I forgot to mention T8 can also export out to a text format with the data included. That's elevation and GPS fix (3-D or 2-D). -=-=

 

But then again, what works for me doesn't have to work for you. To reword the way Searching_ut put it, it's all about how it fits for the user. Something you seem to have a failing to grasp.

Edited by TotemLake

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Rockin R, & TL,....I guess you got so upset that you failed to notice that we were talking about software , not "units".

 

No, Garmin software doesn't do those things either.....Thank you for underscoring and agreeing with my point that 3rd party software is necessary.

 

If you exchange any data with the US Forest Serv or BLM , they just about must have it in shapefile format.

 

I exchange data with numerous folks, lots of different formats, different GPS users. Not numerous daily, but several each week. After all, I've got to have time for Trail mapping, Hiking, ATV,Snowmobile.

 

RRLover...PM Sent

 

I get by just fine each day with my "sorry" ole Garmin (my description) and my " insinuated as totally unnecessary" 3rd party software (that it DOES NOT take a GPS Professional to learn and use.

 

Just needed to let other GPS users out there know that there are other, much more versatile softwares available than the "one package" mentioned.

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Rockin R, & TL,....I guess you got so upset that you failed to notice that we were talking about software , not "units".

 

No, Garmin software doesn't do those things either.....Thank you for underscoring and agreeing with my point that 3rd party software is necessary.

 

If you exchange any data with the US Forest Serv or BLM , they just about must have it in shapefile format.

 

I exchange data with numerous folks, lots of different formats, different GPS users. Not numerous daily, but several each week. After all, I've got to have time for Trail mapping, Hiking, ATV,Snowmobile.

 

RRLover...PM Sent

 

I get by just fine each day with my "sorry" ole Garmin (my description) and my " insinuated as totally unnecessary" 3rd party software (that it DOES NOT take a GPS Professional to learn and use.

 

Just needed to let other GPS users out there know that there are other, much more versatile softwares available than the "one package" mentioned.

 

Nice backpedaling. I think we've discussed before that this IS a geocaching forums, I would assume the majority here are asking for geocaching features. While I would also assume there are a few who might want info on other apps such as what you described, usually, they mention this in their posts.

 

I personally would think giving info that is on target with the OPs needs is more helpful than going off on a wild tangent as you have? :laughing:

 

For those of us who aren't talking with the BLM or Forest Services, for those of us needing a GPS which works for caching, hiking, fishing or other outdoor fun, the "one package" is a great choice! Not the only choice, but a great option!

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Rockin R, & TL,....I guess you got so upset that you failed to notice that we were talking about software , not "units".

 

No, Garmin software doesn't do those things either.....Thank you for underscoring and agreeing with my point that 3rd party software is necessary.

 

If you exchange any data with the US Forest Serv or BLM , they just about must have it in shapefile format.

 

I exchange data with numerous folks, lots of different formats, different GPS users. Not numerous daily, but several each week. After all, I've got to have time for Trail mapping, Hiking, ATV,Snowmobile.

 

RRLover...PM Sent

 

I get by just fine each day with my "sorry" ole Garmin (my description) and my " insinuated as totally unnecessary" 3rd party software (that it DOES NOT take a GPS Professional to learn and use.

 

Just needed to let other GPS users out there know that there are other, much more versatile softwares available than the "one package" mentioned.

No, I did notice and you failed to read my acknowledgement of it. But thank you for making my point. You have to rely on third party tools to do the job, which you failed to make mention in here yet again until this post. RRLover didn't ask for a PM, he asked for a folow up post. So what have we? Avoidance?

 

The Delorme zooms in just fine as I have proven in previous posts. And it shows the 60 and the PN are pretty much on par. I have other tracks to compare it with as well. The variance as discussed in other threads and boards is comparable with more modern Garmin units as well.

 

I have no problem with you mentioning other software because obviously by your own admission, you can't use Garmin's to do it. But you failed to mention you weren't using Garmin's software to surpass DeLorme's this entire time while touting the Garmin. You merely made mention of it's availability. I am interested in what you are using, please name it here. But let's also see what the true cost of ownership is you expect others to fall under. The average user is going to look to the offerings of the vendor. The vendor fails to deliver so you have to go to third party to have it and yet you blast DeLorme for delivering a product for the average user with nothing else to buy. Something Garmin doesn't quite do. Does it?

 

Here's a little truth you keep avoiding. Garmin has been around a lot longer as a GPS provider, so tools have had time to develop for it. DeLorme started at providing a mapping software, then the GPS that works with their software, which is what their customer base asked for. It will take time for the tools and DeLorme to catch up with this. Yes, the developers are reluctant because they aren't sure there is a demand for it yet, nor of the seriousness of the customer base that employs it. I can assure you it's serious enough to be discussed by these vendors and the door is not closed on it. As soon as one adopts it, others will follow. It is only a matter of time.

 

Ok, so you're not using Garmin software to do all that. That's OK. Seriously. Here's the question I'm really interested in having answered, which you have covneniently ignored. Can your software package load all of that which I mentioned onto your GPS and still be usable? I won't even ask if you can disable/enable layers at will. I quoted it below for your ease.

 

Topo 8 can take on USGS 1:24K, Hi - Res aerials, standard B&W aerials and color aerials and satellite imagery as well as it's own vector based maps. I can also include in one package, trails that I can create or import and make them routable.

 

With text based imports, I can include any draw layer image including shapes, polygons and boundaries of all types, including a recently added layer for the DeLorme challenge where the page boundaries are added. With the use of the ever simple notepad or sedt, I can also set up a circle around a cache or caches to note when I'm outside the 528 foot limitation (or any other arbitrary distance) for adding a new cache in the area... all loadable and visible onto the GPS. Can your Garmin do that

 

I want to reiterate, all of that in the quotes is loadable onto the PN series as well as support full paperless caching.

Edited by TotemLake

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"I want to reiterate, all of that in the quotes is loadable onto the PN series as well as support full paperless caching."

.........all of which makes it into a really cute mini-TV. Non GPS features good for "bragging rights" but totally unrelated to GPS accuracy and operation, and totally unnecessary for Geocaching.

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"I want to reiterate, all of that in the quotes is loadable onto the PN series as well as support full paperless caching."

.........all of which makes it into a really cute mini-TV. Non GPS features good for "bragging rights" but totally unrelated to GPS accuracy and operation, and totally unnecessary for Geocaching.

 

And sharing info with BLM and Forest services is?? :P Pot, meet kettle! Only....

 

Use of the aerial imagery IS a great feature for caching and very useful to cachers, but you can blast away on that. So, anything else you want to shoot off about? Care to answer some of the many questions we've all asked...such as what unit you use to utilize those superior apps you seem to gloat about? Or maybe price of all the software you use? Or ease of use maybe?? or....just read back, there's plenty of questions you keep side-stepping!

 

I think my "mini-TV" is one sweet caching tool which came with almost everything I needed (save a PM to GC and the Cache Register app...oh and the map sub)...right in the box!

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"I want to reiterate, all of that in the quotes is loadable onto the PN series as well as support full paperless caching."

.........all of which makes it into a really cute mini-TV. Non GPS features good for "bragging rights" but totally unrelated to GPS accuracy and operation, and totally unnecessary for Geocaching.

Not answering the questions eh? That's ok. You see, you want to talk but you don't want to walk the talk.

 

It's ok you want to make sure the end user knows there are software packages available. I have no argument with that, but you don't make it known what they are and how much it is. The owner has to discover on their own what the cost of ownership is.

 

It's ok you think these are non GPS functions or not even necessary. But others do think they are. The beauty of freedoms are choices with opinions that don't necessarily have to agree with yours or yours with others.

 

Here's a revelation for you. None of the bells and whistles currently available for GPS units today are necessary for geocaching or accuracy. All the user really needs is a dot on the screen to show them they are getting closer to another dot on the screen with relative accuracy. How they get there is entirely up to the user. That being said, those bells and whistles are what some people look for. Mapping, navigation, compass and other sensors, aerials, exportable/importable formats etc. are all bells and whistles.

 

My unsolicited suggestion is you tone down your rhetoric when presenting the choices you're claiming to make sure folks are aware of, and you'll find people will be more than willing to discuss them rather than argue them.

Edited by TotemLake

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It's ok you think these are non GPS functions or not even necessary. But others do think they are. The beauty of freedoms are choices with opinions that don't necessarily have to agree with yours or yours with others.

 

Here's a revelation for you. None of the bells and whistles currently available for GPS units today are necessary for geocaching or accuracy.

 

I swear there was a "thumb up" icon here.

 

We'll just have to go for a manly :P

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It's ok you think these are non GPS functions or not even necessary. But others do think they are. The beauty of freedoms are choices with opinions that don't necessarily have to agree with yours or yours with others.

 

Here's a revelation for you. None of the bells and whistles currently available for GPS units today are necessary for geocaching or accuracy.

 

I swear there was a "thumb up" icon here.

 

We'll just have to go for a manly :laughing:

 

That's just not very manly, now is it? :):P

 

I'd give it a :lol: And I'd echo the don't be an agitator, be an educator thought!

Edited by Rockin Roddy

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Guaranteed last post.....

"And sharing info with BLM and Forest services is??".....It is a requirement when transfering GPS data dealing with un documented existing roads/trails in areas covered when those agencies start revising their "Land Use " information. Either document it/them, and furnish the information to the FS or BLM .........or lose the use of them.

 

GPS - Map 76CSx (I don't need or want AP on my handheld)

I only use MapSource to transfer the "Plain Jane" Garmin Topo maps. Plenty good for me since I'm only interested in the directions the GPS is providing, not whether the trail is visible on the 2" screen.

Cost of software- $99 -free updates (pleasant surprise ?)

Name -Expert GPS by Topografix (name already provided to others)

Easy to use ( more features than any one user can use but the more you use it, the more you discover)

Won't communicate directly with PN40 (thanks to Delorme) ....so get your file into gpx format and then use.

 

TL, we agree on one thing, that none of the frills are "Required", just conveniences.

 

As you know, GPSs with no maps at all have found thousands of caches.

 

The manufacturer's concentration on providing the "frills" has resulted in the decline in GPS accuracy and total reliability in all the new models. (Yes, including Garmin and Delorme both)

 

Oh yeah, the time delay was not sidstepping the issues..... it's Sunday morning,...I went to church.

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The manufacturer's concentration on providing the "frills" has resulted in the decline in GPS accuracy and total reliability in all the new models. (Yes, including Garmin and Delorme both)

 

I think there are many who'd disagree with you on this since I have seen many compare the new units to the old and find some to be equally accurate...PN-40 being one of them! The "benchmark" unit (60CSx which is the brother unit of the one you use) has been touted as very accurate, so if that's the case, the comparisons showing the new units being as accurate (if not more) must be wrong??

 

Personally, never owned the 60CSx, but I know many who swear by it! I would swear by my PN-40 as well!

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Guaranteed last post.....

"And sharing info with BLM and Forest services is??".....It is a requirement when transfering GPS data dealing with un documented existing roads/trails in areas covered when those agencies start revising their "Land Use " information. Either document it/them, and furnish the information to the FS or BLM .........or lose the use of them.

 

GPS - Map 76CSx (I don't need or want AP on my handheld)

I only use MapSource to transfer the "Plain Jane" Garmin Topo maps. Plenty good for me since I'm only interested in the directions the GPS is providing, not whether the trail is visible on the 2" screen.

Cost of software- $99 -free updates (pleasant surprise ?)

Name -Expert GPS by Topografix (name already provided to others)

Easy to use ( more features than any one user can use but the more you use it, the more you discover)

Won't communicate directly with PN40 (thanks to Delorme) ....so get your file into gpx format and then use.

 

TL, we agree on one thing, that none of the frills are "Required", just conveniences.

 

As you know, GPSs with no maps at all have found thousands of caches.

 

The manufacturer's concentration on providing the "frills" has resulted in the decline in GPS accuracy and total reliability in all the new models. (Yes, including Garmin and Delorme both)

 

Oh yeah, the time delay was not sidstepping the issues..... it's Sunday morning,...I went to church.

Thank you. Not concerned over time delays as these are forums and not real time chat eh? :P

 

I'm actually not surprise on the cost. My gripe is it is extra which was one of the issues I have with Garmin along with not having the 3-D compass at the time I decided upon my purchase and according to an email I received July '08, had no plans to add it.

 

You've clearly defined what your needs are and there's nothing wrong with that. I know folks who like the bare essentials and it works well for them. I was more than happy to jump from a 16 shades of grey MeriPlat to a full color highly functional GPS the PN represents for me, but only because the GPS was beginning to fail from the few years of abuse I gave it. A field auto-reset was the last straw.

 

My argument has been DeLorme provides everything in the box with no further purchases necessary. I'll add it has the frills I wanted to have in a GPS. Is it a GPS for everybody? Most certainly no.

 

The accuracy for me was a gigantic leap due to jumping from 12 to 32 channels. It doesn't use all of the 32 channels all of the time, but it does use more than 12 most of the time and is in par with most GPS units in use today. On my observations, more channels capability is better in this regard. If the birds are available, they are included in the calculations. The MeriPlat couldn't take advantage of more than 12, and in spite of having a good lock, would sometimes be locked on poorly positioned birds to my detriment.

 

The manufacturer's concentration on the frills is largely due to the customer demand for it. As more folks begin using them, more suggestions and ideas are tossed into the ring. Take a look at the evolution of the old radio phone to current cell phones for the direction the GPS is going.

 

I'll say this much. Change is inevitable. I choose to embrace change rather than rail against it.

 

Here's to having more discourse with you.

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That was heart wrenching Totem... :):lol:

Yah I know. I hate losing a good GPS like that. :P

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Name -Expert GPS by Topografix ........

 

Less to it than meets the eye?

It goes back to not every tool is the right fit for everyone.

 

It's not just that there is no "right fit", the program that does it all for the GPS world isn't really out there. I've owned ExpertGPS since it was a simple waypoint and track managing program. I quite like it, but it has it's limitations. I also own Garmins original TOPO, the 24k version for the southwest, Magellans TOPO, NG Topo, Delormes TOPO USA, TopoFusion, sportraks, The old garmin Roads and Rec, City Navigator, Mapopolis (Out of business now), and a few others more than likely that I have forgotten about. Which one I use depends most of the time on what I’m trying to do at that time, and sometimes my patience level for that day.

 

One tool I know bothers me this week, and that is the Garmin Heartrate chest strap that I decided to try with my Dakota today. It says I’m a really out of shape old man this week… Hmmm, what does some stupid computer know anyway

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I was playing with an Oregon at a demo and figured the thing out on the fly, without a manual in a few minutes. It is very easy to use. Perhaps the easiest, most intuative interface I've seen on a hand held GPS unit to date.

 

The PN40 itself isn't particularly difficult if you are familiar with GPS units. I could figure out the basics after a few minutes (though after 6 months I still can't get it to find an address. Either I'm doing something wrong or it is missing an awful lot of addresses). The interface reminds me of a cross between the Magellan Meridian and Lowrance iFinder interfaces. Not the most intuitive, but not difficult at all if you have a little common sense

 

It's DeLorme's Topo software where the learning curve is. It's interface is very different from most mapping software I've used. I've use a few - Mapsource Topo, National Geographic Topo, Topofusion and others and could figure out the basics in a few minutes and never had to pick up a manual.

 

I spent a full day trying to get Topo working with my PN40 and I spent close to 40 hours between reloads of maps on my replacement units (had to send it back a few times), slow downloads and other issues. It was a good thing I was out of work at the time so I had the time to play with it. I can usually get Topo to do what I want to after playing with it for a while, but sometimes I'm not quite sure how I did it. Clunky is a good word.

 

I'm not what you'd call technologically challenged either. Having been a programmer who has designed user interfaces I can say that the people at DeLorme who thought up the DeLorme Topo software ought to be hung by their thumbs and made to promise not to go anywhere near a keyboard or mouse for the rest of their lives.

 

Looking through old threads brought me to this comment and got me to thinking (sometimes a bad thing lol). I decided to play around a bit and low and behold, I was able to find that you can indeed type in an address and be routed to it! Maybe not an exact address, but in the same block as the one typed in! I used our golf course address and was happy to see it point me right to the driveway. Nice!

 

Sorry to bring up the old thread, but maybe some new buyers will have interest in this? Learned something new today, gotta love that!

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Just RETURNED a Garmin 450 to my dealer for refund. (He'd rather lose $$$ than lose a loyal customer.)

 

Unit Topo 24K software was missing the NW corner of Oregon (some other stuff). Retailer could not get it to function either.

 

Garmin tech support has been unsatisfactory. Garmin documentation online and otherwise is POOR. Retailer concedes that Garmin support for handhelds is poor, insufficient.

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Just RETURNED a Garmin 450 to my dealer for refund. (He'd rather lose $$$ than lose a loyal customer.)

 

Unit Topo 24K software was missing the NW corner of Oregon (some other stuff). Retailer could not get it to function either.

 

Garmin tech support has been unsatisfactory. Garmin documentation online and otherwise is POOR. Retailer concedes that Garmin support for handhelds is poor, insufficient.

You should have exchanged it, they do that for products that don't work ya' know. face-crazy.gif

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A very interesting thread.

 

I have an Oregon 200. I don't totally love it but I like it a lot.

 

I too have fat fingers. I am a wood turner so I made myself a stylus. I lost the first one so I made another one and put a hole in one end for a cord. Now I don't lose the stylus. You can also use a round skewer or the blunt end of a Sharpie ... works great.

 

Mine came with the Topo Canada version 4 I think it is. I have all of Eastern Canada in at the moment. Works fine.

 

I download the caches direct to the GPSr. When looking for a cache my wife picks the one she wants, presses "go" and changes to map mode. Done. We only use the compass near gz if needed.

 

She types in field notes and we go on to the next one.

 

My wife is extremely technology challenged. She figured out the Oregon in about 10 minutes on the fly. The only problem she had at first was the touch screen keypad. Once I made her a stylus, that problem was gone.

 

The only real complaint I have is the instability when getting close to a cache. Sometimes it is extremely frustrating.

 

We are not extreme cachers. For us it is a hobby and we want it simple and paperless. The Oregon does that in grand style FOR US.

 

Your Mileage May Vary

 

Cheers

 

Oldflyer2

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Just kidding...this is great input for me/us. We just have to figure out what's best for us now. Thanks so much from you all!

Starting Aug. 27 REI has the Oregon 450 on sale. I've heard (not verified) that it will be around $250. If that is the case get the 450. Hands down it's a better unit than the Oregon 400, 300, or the PN-40. And for that pirce it truly is a no brainer.

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