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Replace It or Archive It, Please


Boneman65

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Posted
Is this CO acting responsibly?

Of course not! They're using hide-a-keys, quite possibly one of the crappiest containers on the planet.

Placing one of these in a region with a humidity exceeding 0% should result in beatings... with rotting lemming carcasses. :D

Posted
I still advocate attempting to contact the CO before posting an SBA. But that is just my opinion.
If a cache has been MIA for six months, I don't see any obligation on my part to send the CO a courtesy call. If they're not paying attention enough to even temporarily disable the listing after that amount of time, then I'll be more than happy to deal with the issue on their behalf.
You know that submitting an SBA doesn't actually 'deal with the issue', right? It merely requests that a reviewer look into a situation. It's very likely that the reviewer will ask the cache owner 'what's up' and the cache owner will give a reasonable reason why the cache has remained disabled. Had you bothered to send the cache owner an email about the cache that you were so curious about, the reviewer would not need to get involved. As a bonus, it's more neighborly to your local cache owner, a person you actually have to associate with locally.

 

You know that there isn't always a reasonable explanation though, right? And that sometimes CO's just procrastinate because they can't be bothered? These are the ones I'm talking about, not the ones with the reasonable explanation. I think this makes three times in this thread that I've made that distinction.

 

And in my thread that you've quoted, I specifically mention caches that have gone missing that haven't even been disabled yet.

Without contacting the cache owner, you don't know which bucket he falls into.

 

At the time the cache is disabled, the CO SHOULD leave a log as to WHY the cache was disabled. If it is known that because of the "ISSUE" at hand that the issue will cause an EXTRA delay in getting the cache fixed, then the CO should say so in the log as well.

Agreed, completely. Communication between the cache owner and the local reviewers is a great way to keep everybody up to speed on what is happening with a particular cache. This communication can easily take the form of a note on the cache page, explaining the circumstances. That way, when the reviewer takes a gander at a cache that has been disabled for a while, they will know what's up. Great advice! :D

:rolleyes::D:D

Posted (edited)

Without contacting the cache owner, you don't know which bucket he falls into.

 

Maybe. But after six months I think I can make an educated guess. Especially if he hasn't even left a note to communicate the reason for the delay to the rest of the community.

Edited by Boneman65
Posted

Without contacting the cache owner, you don't know which bucket he falls into.

 

Maybe. But after six months I think I can make an educated guess. Especially if he hasn't even left a note to communicate the reason for the delay to the rest of the community.

Life gets in the way.

 

It's not at all uncommon for people not to update the cache page after disabling a cache. He knows that people should assume that the cache still isn't available to be found.

Posted

Life gets in the way.

 

It's not at all uncommon for people not to update the cache page after disabling a cache. He knows that people should assume that the cache still isn't available to be found.

 

How about a year then? 18 months? At what point is it reasonable to expect action?

Posted

 

I still advocate attempting to contact the CO before posting an SBA. But that is just my opinion.

 

If a cache has been MIA for six months, I don't see any obligation on my part to send the CO a courtesy call. If they're not paying attention enough to even temporarily disable the listing after that amount of time, then I'll be more than happy to deal with the issue on their behalf.

Excellent. In my area when I've got a cache to check on, I'll be happy to give you a container and detailed instructions on how to find it (at least where I hid it which may or may not be where it is) and potential problems like how it could still be there but down the embankment that's now got 20' of snow so it's really hard to check in December.

 

Folks like you who are willing to do something more than hit the easy button (SBA) are rare. Thanks.

Posted

Life gets in the way.

 

It's not at all uncommon for people not to update the cache page after disabling a cache. He knows that people should assume that the cache still isn't available to be found.

 

How about a year then? 18 months? At what point is it reasonable to expect action?

 

Depends on the cache. I've got a remote cache that if I get a notice TODAY I've got to work around signing my kids up for school, getting the older ones settled into college, my wife wants a camping trip around that. I've got actual work to do around the house that needs done by fall and I'm bumping up against my window. I've got a junk rig I need to tear apart and figure out wha'ts wrong becasue I sure don't seem to be getting my new jeep this year and the old ones got to do. So with the PLANNED priorites I'm booked. Come the first snow (September in that spot) ti's out of season until June of next year. So come June I can plan a trip. However if a medical issue that's potentially cropping up just now demands I spend some time with family in Arizona, I'm there and the cache can wait. Next summer I expect my two college kids to fly the coop and move into their first appartments. It won't take long to help them move but it will knock out a couple of weekends, then my wife wants an AK or WA trip or both and I haven't seen my own brother for more than a few years so I'm likely to accompany her. Keep in mind that i Have another develping family situation that is percolating a long that at some point will hit crisis mode. We can do nothing but wait.

 

Life happens and every bit of it is more important than a cache. So long as the owner is active and interested in maintaining their cache I'm more than happy to give them all the time they need. It's no skin off my back. If I happen to know they are having some life happening to them and am in a position to help with the cache myself, I would probably offer to do so.

 

Life happens.

Posted

Without contacting the cache owner, you don't know which bucket he falls into.

 

Maybe. But after six months I think I can make an educated guess. Especially if he hasn't even left a note to communicate the reason for the delay to the rest of the community.

 

Generally, without a real good )=(and thus rare) explanation, a cache really should not go more than 3 months disabled. When you placed it you agreed to maintain it. If there have been changes since you placed it, a CO needs to archive it or adopt it out.

 

Having said that, many reviewers will let it sit until someone either posts an SBA or wants to place a cache near the disabled cache. Many reviewers are now becoming more proactive and keeping and eye, and subsequently a time limit, on disabled caches.

Posted (edited)

[Excellent. In my area when I've got a cache to check on, I'll be happy to give you a container and detailed instructions on how to find it (at least where I hid it which may or may not be where it is) and potential problems like how it could still be there but down the embankment that's now got 20' of snow so it's really hard to check in December.

 

Folks like you who are willing to do something more than hit the easy button (SBA) are rare. Thanks.

 

Excellent. Nice way to turn it personal and introduce insults and sarcasm to a civilized discussion. And I really appreciate the way you completely ignored the fact that I have repeatedly expressed how I don't necessarily expect the caches to be replaced right away, but that at least a note should be posted in the meantime to let others know you are aware of the situation and you're still actively concerned with maintaining the cache. But no, let people continue to go searching for it when you can't even be bothered to drive by and have a look to see if it's still there. Leave the log field blank for months on end instead of saying, look folks, I need to disable this for a few months because it isn't there anymore and it's gonna be spring or summer before it can be replaced, so don't bother to go looking for it in the meantime.

 

Folks like you who think their responsibility ends once they place the cache are rare. Thanks.

 

 

Depends on the cache. I've got a remote cache that if I get a notice TODAY I've got to work around signing my kids up for school, getting the older ones settled into college, my wife wants a camping trip around that. I've got actual work to do around the house that needs done by fall and I'm bumping up against my window. I've got a junk rig I need to tear apart and figure out wha'ts wrong becasue I sure don't seem to be getting my new jeep this year and the old ones got to do. So with the PLANNED priorites I'm booked. Come the first snow (September in that spot) ti's out of season until June of next year. So come June I can plan a trip. However if a medical issue that's potentially cropping up just now demands I spend some time with family in Arizona, I'm there and the cache can wait. Next summer I expect my two college kids to fly the coop and move into their first appartments. It won't take long to help them move but it will knock out a couple of weekends, then my wife wants an AK or WA trip or both and I haven't seen my own brother for more than a few years so I'm likely to accompany her. Keep in mind that i Have another develping family situation that is percolating a long that at some point will hit crisis mode. We can do nothing but wait.

 

Life happens and every bit of it is more important than a cache. So long as the owner is active and interested in maintaining their cache I'm more than happy to give them all the time they need. It's no skin off my back. If I happen to know they are having some life happening to them and am in a position to help with the cache myself, I would probably offer to do so.

 

Life happens.

 

You're participating in a recreational activity that involves and invites the investment of other people's time and effort. When you abandon or ignore a cache, when you give it absolutely no priority whatsoever, and when you ask us to believe that over the course of an entire year you can't somehow find the few spare minutes it would take to check in on it, or fire off a quick email to another member of the community asking them to do so on your behalf, then you obviously shouldn't be placing the bloody things.

 

If you have all these "planned priorities" and every single thing that is ever going to happen in your life is going to be prioritized over the cache you placed, then why would you ever place the cache in the first place? Obviously your life is far too busy with other things. But it isn't that way, and you and I both know that. You're rationalizing and exaggerating to make a point, and you're asking us to believe that every waking moment is filled and controlled by forces beyond your control. Horse crap.

 

You want us to respect the fact that your time is important and your schedule constrained. Apparently that street doesn't appear to run in both directions.

Edited by Boneman65
Posted

...You're participating in a recreational activity that involves and invites the investment of other people's time and effort. When you abandon or ignore a cache, when you give it absolutely no priority whatsoever, and when you ask us to believe that over the course of an entire year you can't somehow find the few spare minutes it would take to check in on it, or fire off a quick email to another member of the community asking them to do so on your behalf, then you obviously shouldn't be placing the bloody things....

 

What makes you think someone who's life is keeping them busy is out there placing caches and not maintaining them?

 

When you say "can't spare a few minutes" that's good for the cache in the neighborhood park. That's different than one that's 200 miles away that's snowed in most of the year. Each cache varies in the work and effort to find it and own it.

 

Bottom line. I own the cache. I will maintain it as my own time and life allow. Not at your pleasure. Also I don't generally choose to ask others to maintain my caches for me. It's my responsiblity. Where I have had help, ironicly a rude bozo of a finder shot his mouth off and pissed off my help. Later they got to eat some crow when the cache was safe and sound after I made a 500 round trip to check it out. I left the replacement container with my help. That way if something comes up and the NM/SBA posting finder is something less than a jackass, they will walk down the street and check on the cache.

Posted

...You're participating in a recreational activity that involves and invites the investment of other people's time and effort. When you abandon or ignore a cache, when you give it absolutely no priority whatsoever, and when you ask us to believe that over the course of an entire year you can't somehow find the few spare minutes it would take to check in on it, or fire off a quick email to another member of the community asking them to do so on your behalf, then you obviously shouldn't be placing the bloody things....

 

What makes you think someone who's life is keeping them busy is out there placing caches and not maintaining them?

 

When you say "can't spare a few minutes" that's good for the cache in the neighborhood park. That's different than one that's 200 miles away that's snowed in most of the year. Each cache varies in the work and effort to find it and own it.

 

Bottom line. I own the cache. I will maintain it as my own time and life allow. Not at your pleasure. Also I don't generally choose to ask others to maintain my caches for me. It's my responsiblity. Where I have had help, ironicly a rude bozo of a finder shot his mouth off and pissed off my help. Later they got to eat some crow when the cache was safe and sound after I made a 500 round trip to check it out. I left the replacement container with my help. That way if something comes up and the NM/SBA posting finder is something less than a jackass, they will walk down the street and check on the cache.

 

If you can't maintain the cache, or don't have time, don't place it.

Posted

...Excellent. Nice way to turn it personal and introduce insults and sarcasm to a civilized discussion. And I really appreciate the way you completely ignored the fact that I have repeatedly expressed how I don't necessarily expect the caches to be replaced right away, but that at least a note should be posted in the meantime to let others know you are aware of the situation and you're still actively concerned with maintaining the cache. But no, let people continue to go searching for it when you can't even be bothered to drive by and have a look to see if it's still there. Leave the log field blank for months on end instead of saying, look folks, I need to disable this for a few months because it isn't there anymore and it's gonna be spring or summer before it can be replaced, so don't bother to go looking for it in the meantime....

 

You are assuming things here as well. First I don't post notes on the maintance status of my caches. Instead I email the last DNF that the cache is back in operation. Real life has taught me that this works best in my area since I like folks finding my caches. It's up to you to figure out why this would be the case.

 

I'm also going to have to assume you are talking about a cache in need of some maintance as opposed to a disabled cache since you shouldn't be looking for the disabled ones (which is the first thing I do when I'm aware the cache has a problem that could prevent it's being found).

 

A wet log, cracked container, full log, etc. don't stop the cache from being viable. Viable means you can find the cache. Your maintenance crisis may be my meh.

Posted

...If you can't maintain the cache, or don't have time, don't place it.

 

Good advice. What I find is that folks place caches when they have time to place and maintain them. Time passes and guess what? Things change.

 

2 years later, Grandma is dying of cancer, but hey, get your fat a** out there and maintain that cache, STAT. Life happens. Adapt.

 

The problem isn't slow owners. It's the ones who are MIA and won't maintain regardless.

Posted

 

What makes you think someone who's life is keeping them busy is out there placing caches and not maintaining them?

 

Are you saying that all CO's conscientiously maintain their caches? News flash, some don't. Most do, but some don't.

 

When you say "can't spare a few minutes" that's good for the cache in the neighborhood park. That's different than one that's 200 miles away that's snowed in most of the year. Each cache varies in the work and effort to find it and own it.

 

You cannot possibly be expected to conscientiously maintain a cache 200 miles away. So don't place it. And if you do place it, don't use the fact that it's too far away as an excuse to defend not maintaining it and expect anyone's sympathy.

 

Bottom line. I own the cache. I will maintain it as my own time and life allow. Not at your pleasure.

To a point. But you placed the cache and made it public, and introduced it into a community that actively involves a large number of people. The members have a vested interest. So you can't just tell people to go poop in their hat until you're good and ready. You're a member in a club, and you have a responsibility to that membership. That's why this is in the terms and conditions: "As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive the listing.

 

 

I'm also going to have to assume you are talking about a cache in need of some maintance as opposed to a disabled cache since you shouldn't be looking for the disabled ones (which is the first thing I do when I'm aware the cache has a problem that could prevent it's being found).

 

A wet log, cracked container, full log, etc. don't stop the cache from being viable. Viable means you can find the cache. Your maintenance crisis may be my meh.

 

I think we may have found common ground, finally. Although a lock 'n lock full of water should be serviced, assuming of course you're not on your death bed or your mother doesn't have cancer, and there's not 12 feet of snow on the ground, the Japs haven't bombed Pearl Harbor, and giant mutated insects aren't staging a coup d'etat in Washington, D.C.

 

Are you sure you're not just playing devil's advocate a little bit here? Because judging from your cache listings, I don't think you're the type of irresponsible CO this thread is ultimately about.

Posted (edited)
What makes you think someone who's life is keeping them busy is out there placing caches and not maintaining them?
Are you saying that all CO's conscientiously maintain their caches? News flash, some don't. Most do, but some don't.
When you say "can't spare a few minutes" that's good for the cache in the neighborhood park. That's different than one that's 200 miles away that's snowed in most of the year. Each cache varies in the work and effort to find it and own it.
You cannot possibly be expected to conscientiously maintain a cache 200 miles away. So don't place it. And if you do place it, don't use the fact that it's too far away as an excuse to defend not maintaining it and expect anyone's sympathy.
Bottom line. I own the cache. I will maintain it as my own time and life allow. Not at your pleasure.
To a point. But you placed the cache and made it public, and introduced it into a community that actively involves a large number of people. The members have a vested interest. So you can't just tell people to go poop in their hat until you're good and ready. You're a member in a club, and you have a responsibility to that membership. That's why this is in the terms and conditions: "As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive the listing.
I'm also going to have to assume you are talking about a cache in need of some maintance as opposed to a disabled cache since you shouldn't be looking for the disabled ones (which is the first thing I do when I'm aware the cache has a problem that could prevent it's being found).

 

A wet log, cracked container, full log, etc. don't stop the cache from being viable. Viable means you can find the cache. Your maintenance crisis may be my meh.

I think we may have found common ground, finally. Although a lock 'n lock full of water should be serviced, assuming of course you're not on your death bed or your mother doesn't have cancer, and there's not 12 feet of snow on the ground, the Japs haven't bombed Pearl Harbor, and giant mutated insects aren't staging a coup d'etat in Washington, D.C.

 

Are you sure you're not just playing devil's advocate a little bit here? Because judging from your cache listings, I don't think you're the type of irresponsible CO this thread is ultimately about.

A few thoughts:
  1. You've been geocaching for three minutes and have found a handful of caches. You simply do not have the experience to state how things are typically done. When you attempt to do so, you sound like a blowhard. No offense.
  2. I own a cache 2000 miles away from my home and it is properly maintained. 200 miles would be cake. Still, that maintenance might be completed quite as fast as you want. Too bad.
  3. While wild horses clearly couldn't keep you from your maintenance duties, most of lifes issues will keep me from my caches. You see, this is a game. Nearly everything in life is more important than playing a game.
  4. What is with all the angsty noobs???

Edited by sbell111
Posted (edited)

It was a simple point I was trying to make. It wasn't my intention to besmirch the reputations of the conscientious CO's, which the majority are. Apologies if that intent was misinterpreted.

 

Rant over.

Edited by Boneman65
Posted

I *think* the point we have been trying to drive home to you is that you need to be a bit more patient and understanding when considering the status of these caches. I personally believe you should attempt to contact the owner before posting an SBA log. That is my opinion. It is a simple gesture and takes very little time or effort. I feel good about contacting an owner of a cache in need of maintenance because I offer to help. I think I am contributing to the game. I do not to judge the owner for their actions. I do not know their life circumstances. If I can help them and the game I will happily do so. I find this is an easy philsophy to follow. I hope others do the same.

Posted

My intemperate thoughts: If a cache has devolved into something that would give our hobby a bad name, or if a cache is missing altogether, and the owner is MIA, that cache needs to be archived. If an owner drops out of the game, and the community takes it upon themselves to keep up with his cache maintenance duties, then all is good. If a cache owner is still active, but has been seemingly negligent on their maintenance duties, then I will definitely shoot them an e-mail indicating the problem and offering my assistance.

 

So long as someone is still a member of this community, I'll do whatever I can to help them.

Posted

My intemperate thoughts: If a cache has devolved into something that would give our hobby a bad name, or if a cache is missing altogether, and the owner is MIA, that cache needs to be archived. If an owner drops out of the game, and the community takes it upon themselves to keep up with his cache maintenance duties, then all is good. If a cache owner is still active, but has been seemingly negligent on their maintenance duties, then I will definitely shoot them an e-mail indicating the problem and offering my assistance.

 

So long as someone is still a member of this community, I'll do whatever I can to help them.

Very good post. And why in the world are you up at what looks like 3:13 am your time? Crazy right coasters...

Posted

But, as I said, thats not the issue nor pertinent to this thread, is it?

And "Blah blah blah..." was? :P

 

I recently met several local cachers at an informal gathering in a coffee shop. During the course of the conversation, one started giving another grief about not maintaining his caches "which are obviously missing." Truth be known, I felt the same way but didn't think my input would add anything constructive. Anyway, the CO in question said "come with me" and they got into his car and left.

 

Yesterday I learned that they had gone to each and every one of the caches in question and they were all there and in good shape. The CO had simply used variations of a particularly innovative form of camouflage on the series. I didn't even ask for the secret because I'd like to find them on my own when I'm back in the area.

 

I haven't been caching long enough to even begin to think that if I can't find it it must be missing, but there are obviously people who do. It's also human nature to be influenced by previous DNFs and give up after a cursory search or not even try. I was guilty of that myself, but I've decided to not do that anymore. And yesterday I found 3 caches with recent DNFs in the logs. In fact, I crossed paths with a couple of cachers on their way out from a cache while I was on my way in. They said it was gone, but I looked anyway and found it.

 

'Nuff outta me.

 

Pete

Posted

I haven't been caching long enough to even begin to think that if I can't find it it must be missing, but there are obviously people who do. It's also human nature to be influenced by previous DNFs and give up after a cursory search or not even try. I was guilty of that myself, but I've decided to not do that anymore. And yesterday I found 3 caches with recent DNFs in the logs. In fact, I crossed paths with a couple of cachers on their way out from a cache while I was on my way in. They said it was gone, but I looked anyway and found it.

 

I certainly just fell prey to that. Was out caching yesterday, heading up a popular local trail, saw that GCJDGZ was about a quarter mile away. Set the GOTO, start walking, and pull up the description on CacheBerry. Checked the logs as I was almost there to find several DNFs and no finds since May. Checked the CO's profile, saw they hadn't logged in since the DNFs started.

 

Decided to give a looksee anyway. Found GZ, no ammo can. Checked the hint, which was pretty much a spoiler, and it put me right back where I was. Did what I thought was a thorough search 30 feet radius for everywhere an ammo can could be, no joy. Decided to post my very first Needs Archived. Continued caching for the day, even met Omega_1 at a nearby spot.

 

Now, you know where this story is going...

 

Not half an hour after posting my Needs Archived and adding to my DNF bookmark list, I get an email on it. Omega_1 had just found it, had even picked up a stranded TB! Turns out my search wasn't as thorough as I thought it was.

 

LTBALTM.

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