Dakota 20 compared to PN-40

[+The Yinnies]

With the Dakota and multi caches do you need to make a waypoint for the next? I know on my -40 you can add it to the cache listing.

[+Searching_ut]

With the Dakota and multi caches do you need to make a waypoint for the next? I know on my -40 you can add it to the cache listing.

 

Yea, on the cache page, you hit the save as waypoint button, then enter the new coordinates and off you go. Of course should you need to read the cache page you have to pull up the one for the original cache as there won't be any info there on the waypoint page other than what you entered. It's much easier to do than try to describe.

 

How are you liking the Dakota so far? Notice anything I missed when I attempted to compare them? Since the behavior of GPS units varies by conditions, it would be interesting to see inputs and comparisons from others.

 

One thing I really like about the dakota lately is the ability to save 200 tracks of 10,000 trackpoints. I've got the new geocaching mobile (Okay, so far I haven't got out of it long enough to actually go get a cache) I find I can cover a lot of mileage in a single day, with tracks not being available for a large number of them from any sources I have found so far. It's going to be fun logging as many ATV trails as I can.

[+The Yinnies]

After a week of compairing the Dakota 20 and the -40 I have come to the conclusion that the -40 is more accurate by 10 to 15 feet. I took them both caching around the county and set up waypoints in my yard. I checked them last night and this morning. I let them sit out in the sun for an hour before I retested them this morning. The -40 would 95% of the time take me to the waypoint and the Dakota was off by at least ten feet. I even put in coords the same on both and showed the Dakota was off by 12 ft. I think the Dakota might be going back and I might get another -40 for me.

[+Tui Chub]

After a week of compairing the Dakota 20 and the -40 I have come to the conclusion that the -40 is more accurate by 10 to 15 feet. I took them both caching around the county and set up waypoints in my yard. I checked them last night and this morning. I let them sit out in the sun for an hour before I retested them this morning. The -40 would 95% of the time take me to the waypoint and the Dakota was off by at least ten feet. I even put in coords the same on both and showed the Dakota was off by 12 ft. I think the Dakota might be going back and I might get another -40 for me.

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark. You can find one in your area (in the USA) by using the NGS datasheet.

 

NGS Datasheet Link

 

I have found the Dakota 20 to be very accurate.

 

My NGS Test

[+user13371]

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark.

If I set a waypoint in my yard today, and over the next few days check how close the GPS thinks I am to that waypoint when standing on the same spot, am I not measuring accuracy?

 

It's a trick question...

 

Ask three different people what they mean by accuracy, and you may get at least three different answers - relating to (1) precision, or (2) repeatability, or (3) agreeement of one device's coordinate readings with those recorded on another device.

 

[+The Yinnies]

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark.

If I set a waypoint in my yard today, and over the next few days check how close the GPS thinks I am to that waypoint when standing on the same spot, am I not measuring accuracy?

 

It's a trick question...

 

Ask three different people what they mean by accuracy, and you may get at least three different answers - relating to (1) precision, or (2) repeatability, or (3) agreeement of one device's coordinate readings with those recorded on another device.

 

Lee

What would you sugggest on how to check accuracy? I am trying to find some benchmarks. The -40 always goes right to the same spot and the dakota does not. I have also gotten my Nephew into caching and I am off on most of the ones we did. I like the unit but I do not want to spend more money on it if I am not happy.

Thanks

[+Team CowboyPapa]

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark.

If I set a waypoint in my yard today, and over the next few days check how close the GPS thinks I am to that waypoint when standing on the same spot, am I not measuring accuracy?

those recorded on another device.

 

First time that I did it, and compared the current location indicator to my know position on the Hi-Res photo image, I was determining accuracy of the combination of the Global Positioning System (GPS). my handheld GPSr, and the photo image.

Comparing the first current location indicator position to the next two, gave me precision of the combination of my handheld GPSr and the GPS.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Lee TCP,

What would you sugggest on how to check accuracy? I am trying to find some benchmarks. The -40 always goes right to the same spot and the dakota does not. I have also gotten my Nephew into caching and I am off on most of the ones we did. I like the unit but I do not want to spend more money on it if I am not happy.

Thanks

 

10-4, I use the H-Res City 133 photo imagery as downloaded from DeLorme of my neighborhood.

I stand in the middle of my 4' wide sidewalk just where it intersects my driveway.

I can see that on my PN-40 and then make a good estimate of distance from that point to the current position indicator on the screen.

 

Or do the same with coordinates in your driveway and then come in,

call up google earth, put in those coordinates and how do they show in comparison to your driveway.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+jenny08_1015]

A couple more questions:

1. How many Geocache listings can you store in the Dakota 20?

 

2. Can you use the micro SD card for additional waypoints/caches or only for maps?

 

Thanks.

 

Jenny

[+Searching_ut]

After a week of compairing the Dakota 20 and the -40 I have come to the conclusion that the -40 is more accurate by 10 to 15 feet. I took them both caching around the county and set up waypoints in my yard. I checked them last night and this morning. I let them sit out in the sun for an hour before I retested them this morning. The -40 would 95% of the time take me to the waypoint and the Dakota was off by at least ten feet. I even put in coords the same on both and showed the Dakota was off by 12 ft. I think the Dakota might be going back and I might get another -40 for me.

 

Interesting. When I tried comparing against benchmarks, I found my errors were almost always less than 15 feet with either unit. Of course, the benchmarks I found were all in fairly open areas, so terrain/cover didn't come in to play.

 

For repeatability, I set the units to 5 second track recording, left them setting for anywhere from about an hour to battery exhaustion, then compared the track blob to see how much variance/wandering I was getting. I didn't observe anything that could call a consistant difference between the units other than the PN-40 was slightly more prone to being a bit off when first fired up. Both units seemed pretty accurate and consistant to me.

 

What sort of terrain/treecover were you doing the comparisons in?

[+The Yinnies]

After a week of compairing the Dakota 20 and the -40 I have come to the conclusion that the -40 is more accurate by 10 to 15 feet. I took them both caching around the county and set up waypoints in my yard. I checked them last night and this morning. I let them sit out in the sun for an hour before I retested them this morning. The -40 would 95% of the time take me to the waypoint and the Dakota was off by at least ten feet. I even put in coords the same on both and showed the Dakota was off by 12 ft. I think the Dakota might be going back and I might get another -40 for me.

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark. You can find one in your area (in the USA) by using the NGS datasheet.

 

NGS Datasheet Link

 

I have found the Dakota 20 to be very accurate.

 

My NGS Test

OK you were right. I found a benchmark and the Dakota was on. It was closer than the -40. Now I just need to decide City Nav sd, dvd or wait for the 24k topo for Wisconsin to come out. I already have the 100k topo.

[+Searching_ut]

After a week of compairing the Dakota 20 and the -40 I have come to the conclusion that the -40 is more accurate by 10 to 15 feet. I took them both caching around the county and set up waypoints in my yard. I checked them last night and this morning. I let them sit out in the sun for an hour before I retested them this morning. The -40 would 95% of the time take me to the waypoint and the Dakota was off by at least ten feet. I even put in coords the same on both and showed the Dakota was off by 12 ft. I think the Dakota might be going back and I might get another -40 for me.

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark. You can find one in your area (in the USA) by using the NGS datasheet.

 

NGS Datasheet Link

 

I have found the Dakota 20 to be very accurate.

 

My NGS Test

OK you were right. I found a benchmark and the Dakota was on. It was closer than the -40. Now I just need to decide City Nav sd, dvd or wait for the 24k topo for Wisconsin to come out. I already have the 100k topo.

 

If you try the benchmark a few more times, or try other benchmarks, I would expect that sometimes the PN-40 would be the more accurate. My own experiences are that they are fairly similar accuracy and reception wise, with neither unit having a clear consistent advantage over the other. I know that doesn’t really help you in deciding which unit is better for you but that’s how I see them.

 

Based on a couple personal corespondeces with you, and your posts on the subject, you don’t sound very confident in deciding on which unit is best for you, which seems to be the case with many other people as well. For that reason, I‘m choosing to respond via the forum, in the hopes that it is of some use to others trying to make the same decisions. Unfortunately, I can’t in good faith declare one a clearly superior unit over the other. Most of the differences I’ve observed are preference sorts of stuff. Which display works better for you? Which interface do you find more intuitive? If you want aerial photos, the PN-40 is pretty much the only game in town. If you’re just planning to use garmins 100k product, I think you’ll find the Delorme maps are just as good if not better. If you plan to spend the money on 24k maps, I like the Garmin 24k topos better than anything available on the Delorme units right now, but whether or not it’s worth the significant difference in cost is one of those judgment calls that depends on how you’ll use them, what’s important to you etc. I’ve found that most people I see using TOPO type maps don’t really understand them, so it probably doesn’t matter that much which one they have. Battery life is clearly better with the Dakota, displays are tougher to call. Do you prefer bigger, or brighter? How about touch screen or keypad? As you can see, most of the stuff boils down to what YOUR preferences are

 

In the end, don’t spend to much time trying to figure out which unit is BEST. It’s a subjective call for the most part to begin with, and all of the newer units will get the job done quite efficiently truth be told. In the case of these two units, for geocachers, they’re both great choices, reasonably accurate, paperless capable, and loaded with whistles and bells. Just pick which one you feel fits you best, and that you feel the most secure in using. Whatever you decide, allow yourself to enjoy it and have

[+The Yinnies]

After a week of compairing the Dakota 20 and the -40 I have come to the conclusion that the -40 is more accurate by 10 to 15 feet. I took them both caching around the county and set up waypoints in my yard. I checked them last night and this morning. I let them sit out in the sun for an hour before I retested them this morning. The -40 would 95% of the time take me to the waypoint and the Dakota was off by at least ten feet. I even put in coords the same on both and showed the Dakota was off by 12 ft. I think the Dakota might be going back and I might get another -40 for me.

How did you set up waypoints in your yard? Really, the only way to measure accuracy is to use a know benchmark. You can find one in your area (in the USA) by using the NGS datasheet.

 

NGS Datasheet Link

 

I have found the Dakota 20 to be very accurate.

 

My NGS Test

OK you were right. I found a benchmark and the Dakota was on. It was closer than the -40. Now I just need to decide City Nav sd, dvd or wait for the 24k topo for Wisconsin to come out. I already have the 100k topo.

 

If you try the benchmark a few more times, or try other benchmarks, I would expect that sometimes the PN-40 would be the more accurate. My own experiences are that they are fairly similar accuracy and reception wise, with neither unit having a clear consistent advantage over the other. I know that doesn’t really help you in deciding which unit is better for you but that’s how I see them.

 

Based on a couple personal corespondeces with you, and your posts on the subject, you don’t sound very confident in deciding on which unit is best for you, which seems to be the case with many other people as well. For that reason, I‘m choosing to respond via the forum, in the hopes that it is of some use to others trying to make the same decisions. Unfortunately, I can’t in good faith declare one a clearly superior unit over the other. Most of the differences I’ve observed are preference sorts of stuff. Which display works better for you? Which interface do you find more intuitive? If you want aerial photos, the PN-40 is pretty much the only game in town. If you’re just planning to use garmins 100k product, I think you’ll find the Delorme maps are just as good if not better. If you plan to spend the money on 24k maps, I like the Garmin 24k topos better than anything available on the Delorme units right now, but whether or not it’s worth the significant difference in cost is one of those judgment calls that depends on how you’ll use them, what’s important to you etc. I’ve found that most people I see using TOPO type maps don’t really understand them, so it probably doesn’t matter that much which one they have. Battery life is clearly better with the Dakota, displays are tougher to call. Do you prefer bigger, or brighter? How about touch screen or keypad? As you can see, most of the stuff boils down to what YOUR preferences are

 

In the end, don’t spend to much time trying to figure out which unit is BEST. It’s a subjective call for the most part to begin with, and all of the newer units will get the job done quite efficiently truth be told. In the case of these two units, for geocachers, they’re both great choices, reasonably accurate, paperless capable, and loaded with whistles and bells. Just pick which one you feel fits you best, and that you feel the most secure in using. Whatever you decide, allow yourself to enjoy it and have

I know I have been a pain in the butt about this but I really liked how accurate my -40 was but still liked the Garmins and did not want to go backwards on the accuracy. I am keeping the Dakota and will see haw it pans out against my Wife's -40.

Again thanks for everything.

[+Searching_ut]

.....

I know I have been a pain in the butt about this but I really liked how accurate my -40 was but still liked the Garmins and did not want to go backwards on the accuracy. I am keeping the Dakota and will see haw it pans out against my Wife's -40.

Again thanks for everything.

 

Not a pain at all, just one of the many of us looking for what will work out the best (I've been surprised by how much e-mail I've received regarding the two different units). Fortunately, GPS receivers are reaching the point now where the differences are more of a usability issue more so than reception/accuracy. Compared to not that long ago, the navigation tools available to us now are amazing.

 

Good luck with your choice. Like you, my wife is using the PN-40 and I've chosen to go with the Dakota. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. As we've been out exploring trails, we find many differences in the maps, terrain representation etc. All to often though, neither one matches up to the realities of the roads or trails we're trying to navigate. I'm thinking having two different units might result in our being more dazed and confused rather than more confident in our ability to navigate around. Since we've started wandering quite a ways into remote areas with the 4 wheeler, the kids are trying to talk us into getting a spot so we can check in so to speak. Seems kind of strange having the "Kids" asking where we're going, when we'll be back, and worrying that we won't be careful.

[+Searching_ut]

Just wanted to add an update on the PN-40. It bricked on me in the field today. Since we were heading out on a 50 mile or so backcountry trek in RZR (Quad), we were fortunate in that we had the Dakota so navigation wasn't an issue. The one downside was that I had only downloaded the geocaches for the area into the PN-40, as that was the unit my wife and navigator was going to be looking at as we bounced along the trails. Not a complete loss as we were able to catch two without a GPS, but bummer none the less.

 

As to what happened, after we loaded the caches, and were playing around with the maps last night, we forgot to turn the unit off and left in running all night. Most of the time this isn't an issue, but this time when I tried to turn the unit on at the trailhead, it came on to the satellite screen, then immediately went blank. I swapped out the batteries with another set of NiMh, but it did the same thing. Pulling the SD card and trying once again still didn't take care of the ussue. I then tried a backup set of lithiums, with again the same results. Trying to reset the unit was to no avail, so I gave up. Upon returning home, the unit did power up while connected to the computer. On the chance the firmware might have become corupted, I'm in the process of re-flashing that now, but my already less than trusting opinion of my unit is even more degraded now.

 

In the end, while I like the orange unit for geocaching, it's definately not my choice for backcountry adventure.

[JDiablo]

Are you saying that the unit bricked because you let the batteries run down?

[+user13371]

Are you saying that the unit bricked because you let the batteries run down?

Maybe. There have been numerous reports of spontaneous shutdowns and problems to power back up on the PN-40. Very often it's temporary; just leaving the device without batteries for a few hours sometimes resolves it.

 

No solid explanation but quite a few theories among the user community, and there may be more than one cause for what looks like a related batch of symptoms. Lots of ongoing discussion pinned near the top of the DeLorme PN40 forums...

 

http://forums.delorme.com/viewforum.php?f=131

Edited September 15, 2009 by lee_rimar

[JDiablo]

Are you saying that the unit bricked because you let the batteries run down?

Maybe. There have been numerous reports of spontaneous shutdowns and problems to power back up on the PN-40. Very often it's temporary; just leaving the device without batteries for a few hours sometimes resolves it.

 

No solid explanation but quite a few theories among the user community, and there may be more than one cause for what looks like a related batch of symptoms. Lots of ongoing discussion as pinned near the top of the DeLorme PN40 forums...

 

http://forums.delorme.com/viewforum.php?f=131

Thanks, I'll give their forum a look.

[+Searching_ut]

Are you saying that the unit bricked because you let the batteries run down?

 

I can't say beyond a doubt what caused the failure, as it is possible the two things are unrelated, and my thoughts on what happened are more than likely influenced by reports from others. When I first got the unit, I had power on problems a couple times after letting the batteries run all the way down with the early firmware, but was always able to get it to work by pulling the batteries and holding the power button down with the batteries removed. I was also having terrain induced reception issues at the time which seemed to make the batteries run down faster, but I didn't get to play in those conditions long enough to say for sure. This recent event was the first time this has happened to me since the latest firmware has been installed. Interestingly, when I was doing my comparisons, I set the units to record track points every few seconds and left them sitting until the batteries ran down many times, and it never caused me a problem, so whatever glitched isn't consistant.

 

Again, what I observed is that we did leave the unit running, and the batteries where discharged, as I was able to verify later on. When I tried to power it up, I would get to the satellite screen where I would see the battery indicator saying full green bars, no satellites displayed in the position rings, and no satellite bars displayed. (It's worth noting that even with batteries that are almost too low in charge to work, the unit always indicates full green bars at first, then changes the status after a short period of time) The unit would only show this display for maybe a second, then it would flash a couple times as it blanked out. When I got home, it still wouldn't power up. (I didn't leave the batteries out to see if that would have fixed it) I hooked it to my computer, and low and behold it came on with no problems, and continued to work even when I unplugged it. I then re-flashed the firware with a newly downloaded copy just in case, and everything seems to be working normally.

[+embra]

You said in your first report of this incident that trying to reset the device in the field didn't work...did these efforts include the extended power button press to discharge the capacitor? (I'm guessing yes since you knew about this and used it earlier).

 

It does sound like you stumbled on a combination--trying to power up with exhausted batteries--that bricks despite whatever firmware updates have been implemented (I suspect DeLorme has the PN-40 powering down sooner so the batteries are not quite as depleted as the earlier firmwares allowed). I was just curious if that capacitor-draining trick failed to help in the field this time--I'd feel a little reassured if you didn't.

 

For the curious, there's a little bit about this phenomenon in the wiki.

[JDiablo]

I'm about 1/2 way through the 19 page read. Wondering

[+Searching_ut]

You said in your first report of this incident that trying to reset the device in the field didn't work...did these efforts include the extended power button press to discharge the capacitor? (I'm guessing yes since you knew about this and used it earlier).

 

It does sound like you stumbled on a combination--trying to power up with exhausted batteries--that bricks despite whatever firmware updates have been implemented (I suspect DeLorme has the PN-40 powering down sooner so the batteries are not quite as depleted as the earlier firmwares allowed). I was just curious if that capacitor-draining trick failed to help in the field this time--I'd feel a little reassured if you didn't.

 

For the curious, there's a little bit about this phenomenon in the wiki.

 

Actually, I hadn’t thought about the powering up with dead batteries aspect, but that is a good possibility for where something got messed up. I was stuck in the mode of thinking something took place from the initial power down when the batteries went dead, not the failure to boot up completely because it had dead batteries in it. To make matters worse, I know I tried to power it up at least twice prior to swapping batteries, and I’m not sure how many times the wife tried prior to handing me the unit and telling me it didn’t work.. I would guess it’s safe to say she tried at least the once . In hindsight that probably wasn’t a wise course of action. I didn’t initially think dead batteries because I had replaced them the night before, and it wasn’t until I thought about it a bit that I realized we probably hadn’t turned the unit back off when we had been handing it back and forth after playing with the maps a bit. (I’ve been teaching the wife who isn’t much into the tech stuff how it all works. I doubt we’ll ever get to the point where she loads her own maps, caches etc.)

 

As for the pushing the power button with the batteries removed for 30 seconds or so, I tried that, and also tried holding it down once the unit started the boot up process with the lithium batteries to see if it would reset that way. Nothing worked until it was tethered to the computer

[+embra]

That's what I figured.

 

Your experience reminded me that I wish the PNs had an option to power down if there was no position change after a user-set number of minutes (like the Magellans I had did). I need something like that to save me from myself.

 

Edit to add: Back on topic...does the Dakota have such an auto-power off option?

Edited September 15, 2009 by embra

[+Rockin Roddy]

I have done the exact same thing as SU described (powered up with dead beattery after leaving the unit on all night) and didn't have a problem, just charged the battery. I was and am using the power kit battery, so not sure if that matters.

[+Searching_ut]

That's what I figured.

 

Your experience reminded me that I wish the PNs had an option to power down if there was no position change after a user-set number of minutes (like the Magellans I had did). I need something like that to save me from myself.

 

Edit to add: Back on topic...does the Dakota have such an auto-power off option?

 

The Dakota doesn't have any auto power down settings that I'm aware of. You can however set an alarm clock on it so it will power up at a preset time and beep.

 

In answering your question, I noticed I had failed to turn the dakota off after our last outing, so I had to replace the batteries in it after a couple minutes. It tends to be a habit of mine. Most of the time during my outdoor adventures, I don't actually look at or pay attention to the GPS very often. I mostly use it to record my track, and to guide me back towards the end of the day if needed. Most of the time it isn't. When I get back to the vehicle, I more often than not just toss everything in the truck without thinking to shut down the GPS.

 

I have done the exact same thing as SU described (powered up with dead beattery after leaving the unit on all night) and didn't have a problem, just charged the battery. I was and am using the power kit battery, so not sure if that matters.

 

Is the battery in the kit a rechargable lithium? If so, the voltage would probably be a little higher than that of NiMh batteries, which may or may not have anything to do with what happened. Being as how this is the only time the unit has done this to me since the firware update, I'm not sure what is tied in to the problem and what might just be a coincidence. For all I know it was cosmic rays. Myself I rely on NiMh batteries because I tend to need the unit to work handheld for 10 to 14 hours when I'm playing outdoors, at least during the summer months.

[+mertat]

Since we've started wandering quite a ways into remote areas with the 4 wheeler, the kids are trying to talk us into getting a spot so we can check in so to speak. Seems kind of strange having the "Kids" asking where we're going, when we'll be back, and worrying that we won't be careful.

I know this is off topic and I'm not nearly as techie as the rest of you, but I wanted to comment on the Spot. I have one and have been less than pleased with its performance. I do a lot of hiking in areas with dense tree cover and it hasn't been very reliable. When your contact says, "I assumed you were okay because I didn't get any notices" it doesn't inspire much confidence. Just saying. Edited September 16, 2009 by mertat

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

I have done the exact same thing as SU described (powered up with dead beattery after leaving the unit on all night) and didn't have a problem, just charged the battery. I was and am using the power kit battery, so not sure if that matters.

 

Is the battery in the kit a rechargable lithium? If so, the voltage would probably be a little higher than that of NiMh batteries, which may or may not have anything to do with what happened. Being as how this is the only time the unit has done this to me since the firware update, I'm not sure what is tied in to the problem and what might just be a coincidence. For all I know it was cosmic rays. Myself I rely on NiMh batteries because I tend to need the unit to work handheld for 10 to 14 hours when I'm playing outdoors, at least during the summer months.

 

Yes, Li-Ion...

[+TotemLake]

Since we've started wandering quite a ways into remote areas with the 4 wheeler, the kids are trying to talk us into getting a spot so we can check in so to speak. Seems kind of strange having the "Kids" asking where we're going, when we'll be back, and worrying that we won't be careful.

I know this is off topic and I'm not nearly as techie as the rest of you, but I wanted to comment on the Spot. I have one and have been less than pleased with its performance. I do a lot of hiking in areas with dense tree cover and it hasn't been very reliable. When your contact says, "I assumed you were okay because I didn't get any notices" it doesn't inspire much confidence. Just saying.

That's been my experience too. It varies with conditions and locations. Some swear by it, some swear at it.

 

The new one isn't much better in letting you know if it is working correctly or not as it is still LED blink/noblink bound. They would go a long way to have a small monochrome screen to show you connectivity to the satellites.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Since we've started wandering quite a ways into remote areas with the 4 wheeler, the kids are trying to talk us into getting a spot so we can check in so to speak. Seems kind of strange having the "Kids" asking where we're going, when we'll be back, and worrying that we won't be careful.

I know this is off topic and I'm not nearly as techie as the rest of you, but I wanted to comment on the Spot. I have one and have been less than pleased with its performance. I do a lot of hiking in areas with dense tree cover and it hasn't been very reliable. When your contact says, "I assumed you were okay because I didn't get any notices" it doesn't inspire much confidence. Just saying.

 

Wait for the new Spot 2.

[+TotemLake]

Since we've started wandering quite a ways into remote areas with the 4 wheeler, the kids are trying to talk us into getting a spot so we can check in so to speak. Seems kind of strange having the "Kids" asking where we're going, when we'll be back, and worrying that we won't be careful.

I know this is off topic and I'm not nearly as techie as the rest of you, but I wanted to comment on the Spot. I have one and have been less than pleased with its performance. I do a lot of hiking in areas with dense tree cover and it hasn't been very reliable. When your contact says, "I assumed you were okay because I didn't get any notices" it doesn't inspire much confidence. Just saying.

 

Wait for the new Spot 2.

That is the new Spot 2.

[+Searching_ut]

Since we've started wandering quite a ways into remote areas with the 4 wheeler, the kids are trying to talk us into getting a spot so we can check in so to speak. Seems kind of strange having the "Kids" asking where we're going, when we'll be back, and worrying that we won't be careful.

I know this is off topic and I'm not nearly as techie as the rest of you, but I wanted to comment on the Spot. I have one and have been less than pleased with its performance. I do a lot of hiking in areas with dense tree cover and it hasn't been very reliable. When your contact says, "I assumed you were okay because I didn't get any notices" it doesn't inspire much confidence. Just saying.

 

I know a couple people using them, and they report the same sort of issues. I haven't actually used one, but from what I've heard you have to treat them like an old B/W etrex, ie face up, even then trees might be an issue. It's just speculation from there as to the actual problem in sending your location. Some guess it doesn't send if it doesn't have a good GPS fix, others speculate that it is problems in communication from ground to satellite, and then it's always possible it's on the ground station end of things where things don't work right. I'm not really looking at an emergency locator beacon, just some way to let the kids know more or less where I'll be, and possibly some way to let them know where I'm broke down at if and when that happens (I have had to walk out over 50 miles when I lost a fuel pump on my truck south of Capitol reef national park once. I debated hiking to Lake powell and trying to flag down a boat but chose to head for the road instead). I tend to just follow where circumstance takes me, which makes it hard to tell people where I'll be, which drives the kids nuts. I'll probably wait until the spot II units hit the shelves next month. Then at least I guess I'll know if the supposedly better GPS unit in it makes any difference. As to reducing the stress load on the kids, who knows?

 

Now that I think about it, I think I'll get the white spot instead of the orange one. Might just be coincidence, but my orange PN-40 sometimes glitches, and your orange spot sometimes glitches. Hmmmm......

[+TotemLake]

Not only do you have to have connection with the GPS satellites, but a comm satellite as well. The LEDs are a poor way of advising you your status with both sets of birds. I was in the clear and had it in track mode with allegedly good comm the entire time on a snowshoe hike and it tracked me at the start of the hike, and again at the end of the hike... 8 miles later with nothing in between. You have to count blinks and seconds between blinks to know what you have or don't have. Don't look away for 5 minutes after sending the OK or you might miss the telltale blink it sent the message out which turns out can be a false positive.

 

The Spot 2 engineering is the same LED display system. I'm not holding a lot of confidence in that system untill they can get a display in place that provides reliable status at a glance.

[+Searching_ut]

Not only do you have to have connection with the GPS satellites, but a comm satellite as well. The LEDs are a poor way of advising you your status with both sets of birds. I was in the clear and had it in track mode with allegedly good comm the entire time on a snowshoe hike and it tracked me at the start of the hike, and again at the end of the hike... 8 miles later with nothing in between. You have to count blinks and seconds between blinks to know what you have or don't have. Don't look away for 5 minutes after sending the OK or you might miss the telltale blink it sent the message out which turns out can be a false positive.

 

The Spot 2 engineering is the same LED display system. I'm not holding a lot of confidence in that system untill they can get a display in place that provides reliable status at a glance.

 

Hmmm, I might have to re-think that whole idea. I could see where sending very intermittant data might cause more issues with those wondering where we are than if we didn't give them any data at all. Think I'll try focusing on reminding them that I got along fine for years without GPS, or cell phones. Now not only do we have all of these fancy navigation and communication devices at our disposal, at the same time it's gotten to the point where you can't get more than a day or twos walk from a busy paved road, and even in remote areas it's hard to go much more than a day or so without stubbling across someone else.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Not only do you have to have connection with the GPS satellites, but a comm satellite as well. The LEDs are a poor way of advising you your status with both sets of birds. I was in the clear and had it in track mode with allegedly good comm the entire time on a snowshoe hike and it tracked me at the start of the hike, and again at the end of the hike... 8 miles later with nothing in between. You have to count blinks and seconds between blinks to know what you have or don't have. Don't look away for 5 minutes after sending the OK or you might miss the telltale blink it sent the message out which turns out can be a false positive.

 

The Spot 2 engineering is the same LED display system. I'm not holding a lot of confidence in that system untill they can get a display in place that provides reliable status at a glance.

 

Hmmm, I might have to re-think that whole idea. I could see where sending very intermittant data might cause more issues with those wondering where we are than if we didn't give them any data at all. Think I'll try focusing on reminding them that I got along fine for years without GPS, or cell phones. Now not only do we have all of these fancy navigation and communication devices at our disposal, at the same time it's gotten to the point where you can't get more than a day or twos walk from a busy paved road, and even in remote areas it's hard to go much more than a day or so without stubbling across someone else.

 

Depending on the situation, you may not be able to travel that "day or two" walk.... I wondered how well those worked and now have an idea, THANKS!!

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

That is the new Spot 2.

 

But the new one (out later this fall) has a high-sensitivity chipset. And is supposed to have an improved antenna too.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

That is the new Spot 2.

 

But the new one (out later this fall) has a high-sensitivity chipset. And is supposed to have an improved antenna too.

Let's start over.

 

I see two here, a newer smaller one and an older one for $99.95:

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

Which is the Spot 2?

a. Older one?

b. Smaller one?

c. Neither?

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

b. Smaller one

[+Team CowboyPapa]

That is the new Spot 2.

 

But the new one (out later this fall) has a high-sensitivity chipset. And is supposed to have an improved antenna too.

OK, so the smaller one is Spot 2 and is that the one mentioned immediately above but out now,

or is the new one with a high-sensitivity chipset and is supposed to have an improved antenna too,

Spot 3?

[+Searching_ut]

That is the new Spot 2.

 

But the new one (out later this fall) has a high-sensitivity chipset. And is supposed to have an improved antenna too.

OK, so the smaller one is Spot 2 and is that the one mentioned immediately above but out now,

or is the new one with a high-sensitivity chipset and is supposed to have an improved antenna too,

Spot 3?

 

The little smaller one is the spot 2, but when I looked into getting one earlier in the week, the retailers I found that are advertising them don't actually have them in stock yet, but they do have a do in date of mid october. The "Higher sensitivity", and improved antenna at this time is press release type info, I haven't heard of anyone actually having one to test yet.

 

By the way, Roddy, don't go saying I might not have the capability of walking out of the situation. You'll feed my wife more ammo to ground me.......

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

By the way, Roddy, don't go saying I might not have the capability of walking out of the situation. You'll feed my wife more ammo to ground me.......

That's right, Roddy.

We gotta' trip for him next Sept.:

http://forums.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=20376&start=33

Although we do have one rule: Everybody comes back (to base camp); nobody gets left behind.

[+Searching_ut]

I’m happy to report that the PN-40 is back to working without issue. I attempted to use it for trail mapping the other day, and it worked flawlessly until the batteries ran out. Unfortunately, it was one of those trips where you couldn’t really keep an eye on the GPS unit as you were occupied elsewhere, so I didn’t notice the unit had died until the end of the trip All is well though, as the Dakota logged in the whole thing. Both units took a beating, got covered in dust, then completely soaked without a whimper.

 

 

By the way, Roddy, don't go saying I might not have the capability of walking out of the situation. You'll feed my wife more ammo to ground me.......

That's right, Roddy.

We gotta' trip for him next Sept.:

http://forums.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=20376&start=33

Although we do have one rule: Everybody comes back (to base camp); nobody gets left behind.

 

Okay, you got me worried now, so I went out with a bunch of Quad rider types the other day to practice. Seems I was the only side by side of the group. Now I’m thinking the Emergency Locator Beacon might not be such a bad idea. We had two rollovers, one slide off quite a ways down off the trail, and a wide assortment of dings and dents, twisted racks and handlebars, and one trashed winch. People wise, one set of pretty banged up ribs, some cuts and scrapes, one really swollen wrist, and one individual who just described the pain as all over. Fortunately, all was fixable on the trail, and it was considered the best ride since the last Moab Bash.

 

At least I can safely say we left no men or machines behind.

[+nativecajun]

Just to poke you for no reason at all but that I can.

 

I bought two Dakota 20s before Christmas. I paid $189.99 for each one. That was the sale price I bought them at at Acadamey Sports. I could not believe it that is why I bought fast cause I figured the next day they would probobly be gone. I love using it and is seems very accurate. I wished they would have given a decent owners manual with it. I went online and found a real real good PDF manual for (ALL) its features. So when I want to learn something I go there. But that unit has so many hidden features It will take me a while till I am absolutly comfortable operating it. But I love the hints, and logs, and the info from the owner of the cache with my premium purchase from the geo site. Sorry man I just had to jab. What can I say I am just mean. No papers to lose or get wet or blown in the wind any more for me. Love it.

 

But I know good and well I will want another upgrade some day. Especially when I just read about the Garmin with the camera in it. But the sale price I got it at will make it easy to sell for a decent price. I need to get a neoskin and screen protector for it soon though. After crawling over large tree trunks tonight and going through briars. Yep I sure need all the protection I can get for it. I wished the neoskin they sell would go all around the back also. and just leave some sort of space open to put the usb into it.

 

Well enjoy,

Daniel

 

 

I just purchased myself an extremely expensive Dakota 20. The GPS was only $350, but talking the wife into letting me pick up a second GPS that I really didn't need this year resulted into my agreeing to a Mexican Rivera cruise this fall, and a new point and shoot camera with a big zoom because she doesn't want to drag here DLSR on the trip......

 

Anway, I've only played with it for a few hours yet, so I'm still early in learning it's quirks. If there are any specifics anyone has questions on, spell them out and I'll try and do a comparison. So far, they behave very similar in a lot of ways, quite different in others..

 

Show me heading out the door to play, er I mean evaluate.......

[+Genomin]

 

....

 

 

This is a bit late in the game, but I just read almost every word of every post and I wanted to thank all the contributors here, especially Searching_ut. Y'all have done a fantastic job talking about these different units.

[+Lowther Gang]

New to Geocaching only having done 18 so far using the official Geocaching App on my HTC Sensation XL smartphone i have enjoyed it thoroughly and decided to buy a handheld GPS.

 

My local outdoor sports shop sells the Dakota 20 and i have been considering buying one.

 

After a quick search i found this thread, a lot of informative reading here and i have decided to go and purchase one tomorrow.

 

Im expecting this device to take me right from my house by car then foot to within 20ft of a cache, if it does i will be more than happy.

 

Thanks for the thread and all the info in it.

 

EDIT ..... They didnt have the Dakota 20 in any of my local stores so i went for the Garmin Etrex 20.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Lowther Gang