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Dangerous Locations -What do you do?


OKH

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I don't mean terrain 5 caches, either. Backstory - I go to a cache yesterday and the area was freaking disgusting, rats, dumpsters, homeless encampment and general stank. I stepped in a puddle of something and my foot started burning. Let me also state I'm not squeamish - I'm a retired Brooklyn cop so I've been in nasty places before. The cache page makes no mention of how absolutely disgusting the location is or that it isn't kid safe in the least.

 

So I entered into a dialogue, or tried to, with the CO and he apparently thinks its funny to send people there and it's all part of the joke that the puzzle is. So here's my thing - what do I do now? None of the other logs, unless they're getting deleted, show displeasure at the location beyond saying it smells and I'm trying to balance whether this is just a pissing match between myself and an idiot CO or whether it's something that needs to be reported.

 

So what do you think?

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I don't mean terrain 5 caches, either. Backstory - I go to a cache yesterday and the area was freaking disgusting, rats, dumpsters, homeless encampment and general stank. I stepped in a puddle of something and my foot started burning. Let me also state I'm not squeamish - I'm a retired Brooklyn cop so I've been in nasty places before. The cache page makes no mention of how absolutely disgusting the location is or that it isn't kid safe in the least.

 

So I entered into a dialogue, or tried to, with the CO and he apparently thinks its funny to send people there and it's all part of the joke that the puzzle is. So here's my thing - what do I do now? None of the other logs, unless they're getting deleted, show displeasure at the location beyond saying it smells and I'm trying to balance whether this is just a pissing match between myself and an idiot CO or whether it's something that needs to be reported.

 

So what do you think?

I think that you are too stressed over this issue. Leave a polite DNF that explains that you aborted the hunt because the location was gross and move on with your life.

 

Regarding 'dangerous locations', I always go back to the simple fact that we each have free will. If we ever arrive at a location that is not acceptable to us, for whatever reason, we are free to blow off the hunt and move on to the next cache on our list.

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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

 

And what would you suggest be done?

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Right on, OKH. I'm a <falseModesty>fairly intrepid guy,</falseModesty> but I have no need or desire to enter homeless encampments, wildcat garbage dumps, toxic waste sites, etc. All that's required in cases like this is to post a note/DNF to inform other cachers and move on. You'll make no headway with the cache owner; he thinks this is fun(ny). <_<

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I don't understand the need for some hiders to bring people to locations like this. I understand less why anybody would attempt to hunt a cache in a location that they didn't feel comfortable with. If you don't want to be there- just leave.

 

To answer the CO's question: leave an honest log that details your experience at the site. Try to be objective. Try to leave a log that won't immediately offend the hider or give away the location of the hide, but don't omit the details like the garbage and the homeless camp.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

 

And what would you suggest be done?

 

How about a note on the cache page that says this one isn't kid-friendly? As others have said, the OP can log the DNF with a honest, objective note.

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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

 

And what would you suggest be done?

 

How about a note on the cache page that says this one isn't kid-friendly? As others have said, the OP can log the DNF with a honest, objective note.

Just like Sbell111 suggested in the very first reply to the OP?

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In most cases, I'd argue what many people are saying here: Just leave. But the original poster says it wasn't readily apparent precisely how awful the location was. I think this is a critical piece of the argument that makes the "just leave" argument a bit weak in this case.

 

The CO might think it's funny to deliberately mislead people on the cache location, but it's not funny if you've got little kids in tow. I'd argue that it's also bad for the hobby in general. What if a person new to geocaching comes across this one as one of their first caches?

 

Is it a huge deal? No. But if the cache hider is disguising the terrain rating with a low rating and is deliberately misleading people into an environment that could be dangerous/unsafe for many people, I'd probably go so far as to bring the cache to the attention of the state reviewer. At the very least I'd leave a detailed, honest, and accurate DNF log, and I would definitely take up the issue with the state reviewer if the cache owner deletes that log.

 

It's one thing to challenge people. It's a completely different thing to draw people unknowingly into potentially dangerous situations.

Edited by Sharknose Bunnies
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In most cases, I'd argue what many people are saying here: Just leave. But the original poster says it wasn't readily apparent precisely how awful the location was. I think this is a critical piece of the argument that makes the "just leave" argument a bit weak in this case.

 

The CO might think it's funny to deliberately mislead people on the cache location, but it's not funny if you've got little kids in tow. I'd argue that it's also bad for the hobby in general. What if a person new to geocaching comes across this one as one of their first caches?

 

Is it a huge deal? No. But if the cache hider is disguising the terrain rating with a low rating and is deliberately misleading people into an environment that could be dangerous/unsafe for many people, I'd probably go so far as to bring the cache to the attention of the state reviewer. At the very least I'd leave a detailed, honest, and accurate DNF log, and I would definitely take up the issue with the state reviewer if the cache owner deletes that log.

 

It's one thing to challenge people. It's a completely different thing to draw people unknowingly into potentially dangerous situations.

You're pretty new, so you probably haven't been to cache locations like the one described by the OP. In most cases, the difficulty/terrain ratings are accurate. These are not situations where the cache owners have created cache pages with deceptive ratings. They are just locations that are gross or otherwise unseemly. Edited by sbell111
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Got a question for you... why did you even get out of the car?

 

Because it wasn't readily apparent precisely how awful the location was.

 

I didn't mean that quite so literally. You obviously stuck around long enough to discover "rats, dumpsters, homeless encampment and general stank." and walked around long enough to step into "a puddle of something and my foot started burning."

 

I'm just wondering why you didn't leave sooner than you apparently did. I doubt very much that you drove up to find a nice safe park and only discovered those things suddently when you rounded a corner.

 

Nevertheless, I can appreciate that you may have driven some distance to get to this cache, only to be disappointed by the location, and I can't blame you for that. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

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Sounds like the CO is having fun with this one at the expense of everyone else. If it's correct that no other logs or notes state anything about the filth, then he is obviously deleting them & will do the same to any future ones unless this is made public to all cachers (meaning post the link). This could interest enough local geo'ers to do a drive-by, then post a note about it. Enough of them MIGHT get the CO's attention that this is a poor representation of the geocaching community....and then again, it may not. But worth a try.

 

Geo'ing is a sport that can easily come under fire. We've already seen that several times. Irresponsible acts like this shouldn't be taken lightly. A geo'er should NEVER place another geo'er in danger purposely. If something is going on at the location, make EVERY effort to inform the caching community about the info they need to know.

 

The LAST thing we need is front-page headlines, "Geocacher raped & murdered in a homeless camp where someone had placed a cache". Sure, she SHOULDN'T have gone there, but that's beside the point. In this case, if I read the facts correctly, she probably WOULDN'T have if the appropriate information had been posted on the cache page.

 

I personally would NEVER lead a fellow cacher into something like this without making SURE they knew what lay ahead. But I'm in the country anyway & we don't have this type thing....but we DO have moccasin infested creeks, backroads where no one will find you for 2 weeks, & cliffs that are straight down for 200 feet with rocks at bottom.

 

Any of these situations, like the one described here, are dangerous, in their own way. If I set a cache around them, YOU WILL BE WARNED!! Anything else is immature, unprofessional, & inappropriate to the sport.

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I don't mean terrain 5 caches, either. Backstory - I go to a cache yesterday and the area was freaking disgusting, rats, dumpsters, homeless encampment and general stank. I stepped in a puddle of something and my foot started burning. Let me also state I'm not squeamish - I'm a retired Brooklyn cop so I've been in nasty places before. The cache page makes no mention of how absolutely disgusting the location is or that it isn't kid safe in the least.

 

So I entered into a dialogue, or tried to, with the CO and he apparently thinks its funny to send people there and it's all part of the joke that the puzzle is. So here's my thing - what do I do now? None of the other logs, unless they're getting deleted, show displeasure at the location beyond saying it smells and I'm trying to balance whether this is just a pissing match between myself and an idiot CO or whether it's something that needs to be reported.

 

So what do you think?

Some people have a moronic sense of humor; there's really nothing you can do about it. They will eventually either grow up, die, or go to jail. I don't know if the cache owner fits that description or not.

 

In this situation, I would abandon the hunt and post a note saying why I abandoned it. I would be honest, but try to not be offensive or overly critical. Only if the cache owner deleted my log would I post the same info as a "Needs Archived" log (also mentioning the fact that my original note was deleted), which alerts the reviewer. Even if the cache owner thinks it is "funny" to bring people here, some people cache with family and children who could get seriously hurt in such a location. There needs to be some sort of warning.

 

I would then let the reviewer and cache owner work it out and go on with my life.

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I would be (and have been) honest in the experience. The cache owner knows its a disgusting place and thats his evil side poking out. If people read the logs then they will see that you thought it was a disgusting location, but some will still hunt the cache.

 

You had an option to search it ot not search it. Just as I wouldn't go wading through a swamp, some won't go wading through garbage. Some still wade the swamp, and some will wade the garbage.

I have found caches in disgusting locations. I have also passed a couple by. It's a personal choice. Of the ones I have passed by, someone has always found it before me and after me.

 

For those who say log a SBA, bullpuckey. It's not against the guidelines to have a cache in a garbage pit. Think CITO on the homeless camps and such.

 

As far as your dialog with the CO, you re pissing into the wind. It is a simple matter of "You don't like their cache" and no different than someone complaining about someone placing a LPC that you hate or a cache on the edge of a cliff.

 

Search the caches you enjoy and ignore the ones you don't. Never argue with a cache owner because you don't "like" their cache style. I's a losing game.

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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

 

And what would you suggest be done?

 

How about a note on the cache page that says this one isn't kid-friendly? As others have said, the OP can log the DNF with a honest, objective note.

Just like Sbell111 suggested in the very first reply to the OP?

 

Yes, but the first reply also said that the OP was too stressed about this and that he should just blow it off and not worry about it so much. I don't think that cache's that could be potentially dangerous should necessarily be ignored.

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I don't understand the need for some hiders to bring people to locations like this. I understand less why anybody would attempt to hunt a cache in a location that they didn't feel comfortable with. If you don't want to be there- just leave.

 

To answer the CO's question: leave an honest log that details your experience at the site. Try to be objective. Try to leave a log that won't immediately offend the hider or give away the location of the hide, but don't omit the details like the garbage and the homeless camp.

 

It took 9 posts for this one to come out.. I suppose a sarcastic log along with an SBA is in order??? It always goes back to how each of us plays the game.

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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

 

And what would you suggest be done?

 

How about a note on the cache page that says this one isn't kid-friendly? As others have said, the OP can log the DNF with a honest, objective note.

Just like Sbell111 suggested in the very first reply to the OP?

 

Yes, but the first reply also said that the OP was too stressed about this and that he should just blow it off and not worry about it so much. I don't think that cache's that could be potentially dangerous should necessarily be ignored.

So that brings us back to my question. What would you suggest be done about it? There is no rule/guideline prohibiting someone from hiding a cache in a dump or homeless camp. Post a note and move on with life.

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Have the NYPD remove it.

 

I am originally from 8th Street & 8th Ave, Brooklyn

 

Dad - NYPD PO, 17th, 85, Harbor (Sheepshead Bay, 52nd Street, College Point), ESS, 102 Retired 76

Grandfather - NYPD Capt (CO 78) Retired 67

Uncle - NYPD Sgt Retired 80s

Great Uncle - NYPD Retired 60s

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I would be (and have been) honest in the experience. The cache owner knows its a disgusting place and thats his evil side poking out. If people read the logs then they will see that you thought it was a disgusting location, but some will still hunt the cache.

 

I believe that I've done both in my caching career and use it as drama in my logs.

 

For those who say log a SBA, bullpuckey. It's not against the guidelines to have a cache in a garbage pit. Think CITO on the homeless camps and such.

 

OMG, something I finaLLY agree with you on.

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Sounds like the CO is having fun with this one at the expense of everyone else. If it's correct that no other logs or notes state anything about the filth, then he is obviously deleting them & will do the same to any future ones unless this is made public to all cachers (meaning post the link).
Objection. Assuming facts not in evidence.
I personally would NEVER lead a fellow cacher into something like this without making SURE they knew what lay ahead.
Would you blindly follow the cache page regardless of what your own eyes are telling you? Of course not. You would evaluate all situations that you find yourself in and proceed as appropriate. If you find yourself in a situation where you believe that it would be unsafe to proceed, you should immediately reverse course. You are responsible for your safety (and enjoyment). Some stranger on the internet is not.
And what would you suggest be done?
How about a note on the cache page that says this one isn't kid-friendly? As others have said, the OP can log the DNF with a honest, objective note.
Just like Sbell111 suggested in the very first reply to the OP?
Yes, but the first reply also said that the OP was too stressed about this and that he should just blow it off and not worry about it so much. I don't think that cache's that could be potentially dangerous should necessarily be ignored.
I actually didn't suggest that he ignore the problem. I suggested that he mention it in his log. Of course, I would then put the cache on my ignore list so I didn't look for it again. Edited by sbell111
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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

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I think everybody needs to take some deep breaths here. I just wanted to know if I had a point or if my interactions with a CO were clouding my judgement. Early on it was decided that, like most things in life, the answer was somewhere in between and it was handled in what is probably the most adult way.

 

Thank you everyone for your input but cripes, stop fighting.

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I think everybody needs to take some deep breaths here. I just wanted to know if I had a point or if my interactions with a CO were clouding my judgement. Early on it was decided that, like most things in life, the answer was somewhere in between and it was handled in what is probably the most adult way.

 

Thank you everyone for your input but cripes, stop fighting.

 

If it weren't off-topic for the forum, I'd probably start a thread called "The sky is blue", then sit back and see how many pages that one runs into. Its par for the course around here.

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. <_<

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. <_<

You use a unique definition for 'fighting'. In my world, a polite request for clarification is not a 'fight'.

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Leave a polite DNF that explains that you aborted the hunt because the location was gross and move on with your life.

 

I've done this before. If the CO doesn't say how disgusting the spot is, I will. And if it doesn't get deleted, then it's fair warning to others searching for the cache. I don't like having to dance around dookie trying to find a stupid bison tube next to a Walmart parking lot.

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. <_<

You use a unique definition for 'fighting'. In my world, a polite request for clarification is not a 'fight'.

 

Clearly, the sky is azure. :D

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. <_<

You use a unique definition for 'fighting'. In my world, a polite request for clarification is not a 'fight'.

 

Clearly, the sky is azure. :D

 

Can you guys be any more disrespectful to the original poster?

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. <_<

You use a unique definition for 'fighting'. In my world, a polite request for clarification is not a 'fight'.

 

Clearly, the sky is azure. :D

 

Can you guys be any more disrespectful to the original poster?

 

The OP has laughed at the "blue sky reference" and thanked those of use that answered his questions. The "blue sky" comments were not directed at the OP, but at the general tone of the forums and uncanny certainty that any benign subject can and will be debated, broken down, misconstrued, picked-apart, agendized, and extorted for the good of pedantic-clown-boatman-ship.

 

Your jumping to defend the unoffended.

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. :D

You use a unique definition for 'fighting'. In my world, a polite request for clarification is not a 'fight'.

 

<_< I didn't use the word "fight" or "fighting" anywhere.

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Sbell, read my entire post, rather than quoting a couple of carefully selected sentences. You'll see that a great deal more of my opinion on this matter is explained in detail, that your two tiny pieces suggest.

 

P.S. This isn't a courtroom, so you don't have to object.

I read your post. It started with an assumption. The rest boiled down to the bit that I quoted. If you feel that I misinterpreted your position, please explain how.

 

The sky is blue. :D

You use a unique definition for 'fighting'. In my world, a polite request for clarification is not a 'fight'.

 

<_< I didn't use the word "fight" or "fighting" anywhere.

Read the post in which you originally replied with your 'sky is blue' theory.

 

Of course, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is that you continue to take the thread off-topic and are in violation of the forum guidelines.

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Can you guys be any more disrespectful to the original poster?

 

I appreciate what you're saying there, but I believe that the OP has already stated pretty clearly in Post #27 that the thread is complete as far as he is concerned (OP please correct me if my assumption is wrong) and I was simply trying to lighten things up a bit with my "sky is blue" comment, and not attempting to derail the OP's questions. Apparently, I failed, so I'll step aside.

Edited by knowschad
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I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache.

One problem with this is there is no litmus test to determine what constitutes a questionable location. Obviously the CO isn't bothered by it. Heck, he thinks it's funny. Kinda like my night cache that puts you nipple deep in a nasty swamp. You might find it questionable. I just find it kewl. Everybody has a different standard for what is OK and what is not. About all you can do is accurately describe what it was that bothered you and decide if it bothers you enough to end your hunt. If it does, your posted description should go on either a note or a DNF.

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Read the post in which you originally replied with your 'sky is blue' theory.

 

Of course, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is that you continue to take the thread off-topic and are in violation of the forum guidelines.

 

You've misattributed the "fighting" quote to the wrong forum member. If you've going to dissect a post and play forum moderator at least get the source of your ire correct. Sheesh.

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I'm surprised at the answers that this thread has so far. As a woman who usually caches alone I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache. And as someone who'd like to potentially bring my nieces and nephews caching, I don't want to taint their involvement in the hobby with a gross / smelly location.

:anitongue:

I have several caches one could say are in undesirable locations. I state this on the cache page, so the seeker can make their own choice.......Do Or Not To Do!

Check The Gallery Pic's

Edited by GIDEON-X
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I'd certainly like to know about a questionable location before I attempted the cache.

One problem with this is there is no litmus test

<snip>

 

 

Litmus paper is pink! If you want blue, you need to dip it in acid, I think. Dip it in a base to get red.

 

Now, someone mention the neighbor's cat.

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Well....

 

In the State of Texas if a CO puts a cache in a Toxic Waste Dump (Or any other obvious or not so obvious NON-natural dangerous area) & doesn't alert the potential geocacher that the cache is located in such a place. The CO could be held civally liable for any injury that the geocacher would get.

 

It's the same approach that restaurants must warn customers that their COFFEE is Extremely HOT. When a restaurant doesn't PROVIDE such notice they CAN BE SUCCESFULLY sued for 12 million dollars. It has happend.

 

As much as you want to say its "Freedom of choice" our government sees fit to PROTECT those people who don't have common sense enough to make the right choice. The same thing applies with ILLEGAL drugs. A person should have the freedom of choice to FRY THEIR BRAINS with drugs. But we the people of the USA & our government see fit to make certain drugs ILLEGAL to hopefully protect those who are too STUPID to realize that doing drugs is STUPID! Obviously even though some drugs are illegal, people still do them & we pay the price for their stupidity.

 

Same thing applies to Cache/hides. While a CO may NOT be criminally liable. A CO COULD be held civally liable under certain circumstances if a geocacher happens to get injured in a hunt for the CO's cache/hide.

 

As far as the OP goes.... I would log it as a found/DNF (Whichever the case was) and note in my log that this place isn't fit for children & could be unsafe for geocachers hunting the cache by themselvs.

 

TGC

Edited by texasgrillchef
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While a CO may NOT be criminally liable. A CO COULD be held civally liable

I've often wondered about this. If I had to guess, I'd say America is quite likely the most lawsuit happy nation on the planet. I know from reading the logs from my own hides, (which are not even remotely safe for anyone not prepared for the environments), that injuries are a fairly common occurrence, and the caches that I prefer to hunt all have similar histories. Yet, I have yet to hear about a single, successful geocaching based lawsuit against a hider. It makes me wonder if cachers, as a general rule, are not typical of the population as regards to litigation? :anitongue:

 

I also wonder if folks could be sued for obnoxiously overusing bold script? :laughing:

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