New Mystery/Puzzle Cache Idea

[+Riverwolf]

Between the time that Groundspeak announced the disappearance of the KML and the time that it actually disappeared, I created, on paper, a geocache that utilized Google Earth to virtually visit different places I wanted to visit across the globe, glean information from those locations to get the final cache coordinates using both the KML file and the 3D rendering that Google Earth has available. I didn't know that the KML was going away and was upset that it had disappeared. But I'm really glad it's back!

 

Essentially, you type the name of a location into the search bar, the map flies to the location, you get the info and move on to the next in the list (about 7 or 8 places). No coordinates except for the final location needed to enter.

 

Would this fly with the reviewers? The reason I ask is that I assisted my aunt in placing a mystery/puzzle cache in her hometown and we put the coordinates on the cache page but the reviewer came back to say that waypoints needed to be put in, even if hidden, so that he could see the locations on the map.

 

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

Thanks for your input.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I'm not quite sure what your question is? You need to provide the coordinates for the actual cache as a hidden waypoint, using the waypoints tool.

Sounds like you'd be providing coords for the virtual visits as visible waypoints, or maybe as hidden waypoints, Reference Point type.

 

There needs to be GPS use. Based on what you've described, that might be an issue, or not. I'm not quite understanding the cache design.

[+Riverwolf]

What I am saying is that the only use of a GPSr will be to find to final location of the cache when you have completed the Google Earth Virtual tour that would be required to find the information to get the final location coordinates. The Google Earth Virtual Tour that I would create on the cache page would require the use of Google Earth with 3D rendering AND the Geocaching KML file to complete the puzzle.

 

My issue is that there are no coordinates for the waypoints and you just use the name of the location typed into the Google Earth search bar to get to the virtual location on screen.

 

The reason I ask is that I assisted my aunt in placing a mystery/puzzle cache in her hometown and we put the coordinates on the cache page but the reviewer came back to say that waypoints needed to be put in, even if hidden, so that he could see the locations on the map.

 

My question is this: would the reviewer reject my cache based upon the fact that I do not have the waypoint coordinates inputted onto the cache page? The final location would be hidden from the public view on the cache page. It is only the waypoints leading up to the final that I am concerned about.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Riverwolf

[+briansnat]

You say the final stage will be referenced by coordinates. If I understand correctly searchers will use Google Earth to go to places where they can find clues that will provide the final coordinates.

 

I don't see why that won't fly, as long as GPS comes into play somewhere. I don't think you need to add the coords of the places on Google Earth as waypoints because there is nothing there placed by you, nor would searchers physically visit the locations.

[+power69]

What I am saying is that the only use of a GPSr will be to find to final location of the cache when you have completed the Google Earth Virtual tour that would be required to find the information to get the final location coordinates. The Google Earth Virtual Tour that I would create on the cache page would require the use of Google Earth with 3D rendering AND the Geocaching KML file to complete the puzzle.

 

My issue is that there are no coordinates for the waypoints and you just use the name of the location typed into the Google Earth search bar to get to the virtual location on screen.

 

The reason I ask is that I assisted my aunt in placing a mystery/puzzle cache in her hometown and we put the coordinates on the cache page but the reviewer came back to say that waypoints needed to be put in, even if hidden, so that he could see the locations on the map.

 

My question is this: would the reviewer reject my cache based upon the fact that I do not have the waypoint coordinates inputted onto the cache page? The final location would be hidden from the public view on the cache page. It is only the waypoints leading up to the final that I am concerned about.

I think that would fall under the requirement of downloading a file.

there would have to be a container

the reviewers would need to have the coords as determine cache saturation.

you can "hide" the coords for each stage[only the reviewers can see the hidden ones]

[+Riverwolf]

I think that would fall under the requirement of downloading a file.

there would have to be a container

the reviewers would need to have the coords as determine cache saturation.

you can "hide" the coords for each stage[only the reviewers can see the hidden ones]

 

Downloading a file is something that a bunch of caches require...HERE is one example where a font file is needed to decypher a puzzle cache. There are a multitude of others out there...and, of course, if the file is something that someone doesn't want to download and install, you don't actually have to find the cache.

 

There would be a container...only at the final location. The Virtual Tour using Google Earth would be a virtual visit to certain location across the globe...and there's no way for me to get accurate coordinates for the locations I have in mind without actually travelling to the location...which defeats the purpose of my cache being "places I would like to go."

[+The Blorenges]

There used to be a puzzle cache here in UK using GE locations at world airports. The co-ords took you to particular runways where you had to collect the number.

 

MrsB

[+mrbort]

I have a puzzle that requires people to visit addresses in Google Maps street view and answer questions about what they see to find the coordinates of the final. Some of the places are quite scenic... It was sorta designed to be a tour that you could do when the weather wasn't cooperating for outdoor geocaching etc. Funny enough on my last road trip, I visited a few of the places for the first time in person and got a big kick out of the things I was having people look for The few people who have attempted it have given it nice reviews. One thing to think about though is how the GE database will change over time and whether your tour will stay valid. I check my locations pretty regularly and have noticed a few changes of data but nothing yet that has made me change the puzzle... I'm sure that will change though!

 

I think you've got a neat idea

[+J-Way]

There used to be a puzzle cache here in UK using GE locations at world airports. The co-ords took you to particular runways where you had to collect the number.

I've solved one like that in Mississippi.

 

The "Download" objection isn't valid in this case, because you can always use a public computer in a library to access Google Earth. And unless you have to view the spot from a particular 3D angle, you don't even need Google Earth at all; just use Google Maps in the satellite view. Or use Microsoft Live. Or ArcGIS Explorer.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Oops. I solved one like that, except you were supposed to visit the sites to gather the info. I did it from Google Earth. (Note: I did inform the CO of this.)

Many things are grandfathered on Geocaching. Just because something was permitted once, does not mean that it will be permitted now. One problem with third-party software (even Google Earth) is that there is no guarantee that it will be there tomorrow.

[+rainwolf420]

Guess it depends on the reviewer in your area. We recently put out a crypto-cache, that still has not been found. HehHeh Also put out a multi-puzzle cache. We had to list coords for each place they would have to physically visit to get the info. Granted... with ours, you do have to visit them in person.

 

You can work it out in reviewer notes before publishing & see if it will fly. Only way to know for sure. Should only have to post waypoint for final & give them a good reason that the info points (places to visit) are over 2-3 miles apart... which the theme of the cache alone should explain.

 

Sounds like it would be fun, for those that like Google Earth. Don't see why it wouldn't work.

Best of luck!

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I think that would fall under the requirement of downloading a file.

there would have to be a container

the reviewers would need to have the coords as determine cache saturation.

you can "hide" the coords for each stage[only the reviewers can see the hidden ones]

 

Downloading a file is something that a bunch of caches require...HERE is one example where a font file is needed to decypher a puzzle cache. There are a multitude of others out there...and, of course, if the file is something that someone doesn't want to download and install, you don't actually have to find the cache.

Oh yeah, if you don't want to (insert questionable activity here) then you don't have to find the cache.

 

I suppose that's why the guidelines specifically mention something about not allowing downloads:

In the interest of file security, caches that require the downloading, installing or running of data and/or executables may not be published.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Team GPSaxophone

[+9Key]

www.geogreeting.com is a cool way to make an "earth" puzzle. Just hide the link somewhere on the cache page.

[Clan Riffster]

www.geogreeting.com is a cool way to make an "earth" puzzle.

I was just gonna suggest that. I have a cache, Save it... (for a rainy day) that incorporates this method.

To the OP: <in case you weren't aware of this website>

There are buildings across the globe that are shaped like letters, numbers, etc, when viewed from above. Geogreeting lets you type in a message, and it'll display the buildings whose appearance to letters/numbers correspond to your message. I poked and prodded until I had the precise coordinates for each of these buildings, then created a cache page which is almost entirely a string of coords. If you copy/paste each set of coords to Google Earth, then zoom in, you'll see the buildings in question. Do this in order, and it'll eventually spell out a message telling you where the cache is. As the data was entirely virtual, I did not add those 30+ coords to the cache page as additional waypoints.

 

On a side note, <as others have pointed out>, requiring folks to download something is a guideline violation. Just because someone else managed to build a cache that includes downloading, does not establish a precedent for you to be allowed to do the same. This is also in the guidelines. Maybe that cache you cited as an example was created prior to that guideline, and as such, got grandfathered?

[+wimseyguy]

IF, I am understanding your concept correctly, one merely does some research online at google earth in order to glean the coordinates to the actual cache you have placed? There are plenty of puzzle caches that require online research before setting out in search of the cache.

 

If that's the situation, you should still post the coords of the intermediate waypoints as questions to answer, and then post a hidden additional waypoint for the actual location of the cache. If the actual location meets the guidelines, it should be published.

 

But if I am not understanding you correctly, never mind.

Edited August 3, 2009 by wimseyguy

[+Riverwolf]

I suppose that's why the guidelines specifically mention something about not allowing downloads:[/color]

In the interest of file security, caches that require the downloading, installing or running of data and/or executables may not be published.

 

Because of this, I have modified my cache description and information to utilize Google Maps with some minor web research but Google Earth with the Geocaching KML file will be faster and easier. I'm offering the option to use either.

 

It makes for an even longer cache page though. Not like 6 pages in Microsoft Word wasn't long enough though, huh?