Waterproofing your stash note and log?

[+swizzle]

Has anyone use the map sealer in a spray can? I was wondering how well something like that will hold up with a stash note that might end up in a poor container. I was thinking of putting on 2 or 3 light coats on both sides of the stash note and then use the wide clear tape. A sort of poor mans laminate. Would the combination of the 2 be better or will it hold in moisture once it gets inside. Another thing I was wondering is will you still be able to sign logs after they've been treated,(no tape on the log of course). I was just wondering if it would work then how many waterproof logs could I make out of a can. Basically would it be cheaper then buying waterproof paper. Swizzle

[+StarBrand]

My advice would be to use a watertight container in the first place and not worry about anything inside.

[+kunarion]

swizzle,

 

The tape lamination is worth a try. A durable stash note is a plus. Moisture can eventually migrate into lamination, so as StarBrand said, do what you can to avoid water getting onto the container (or at least baggie the paper items).

 

I’d bet “waterproof paper” would be cheaper (and much less work) than spraying every page with map sealer. You’d have to test to see what writing instruments work, and provide them in the cache.

 

But a cheap ordinary paper notepad is fine, even with humidity. If you get a lot of rain, or if it’s in a place where it may get wet, prepare to change the log book occasionally.

[Quentonious]

I actually lined my film canister with electrical tape, but I suggest if you use this method, test in the sink first. The Fail -safe way,go to REI (Store or online) and buy a water-proof Witz container (My personal Favorite for Quality Geo-cases):

 

Website:

 

Witz Cases

Edited July 30, 2009 by Quentonious

[+Renegade Knight]

Has anyone use the map sealer in a spray can? I was wondering how well something like that will hold up with a stash note that might end up in a poor container. I was thinking of putting on 2 or 3 light coats on both sides of the stash note and then use the wide clear tape. A sort of poor mans laminate. Would the combination of the 2 be better or will it hold in moisture once it gets inside. Another thing I was wondering is will you still be able to sign logs after they've been treated,(no tape on the log of course). I was just wondering if it would work then how many waterproof logs could I make out of a can. Basically would it be cheaper then buying waterproof paper. Swizzle

 

A lamination machine works well. Putting the stash note with the log, in a zip log isnt' too bad. I've seen wet caches with dry logs using this method. On the other hand on my own cache I had a wet log and dry cache using this method so I suspect a finder dunked my log then put it in the ziplock, but you never know.

[+swizzle]

I was thinking about it a bit and in my area very few caches are over the 200 finds mark. I figure my best caches will probably only see maybe 30 people a year. So instead of map sealing a whole note book I'll DL some logs that fit the container and seal a few sheets instead. I know nothing is going to be better then a watertight container to begin with but there are factors beyond the quality of the seal. Rainy day cachers, cache not being put back properly could put it lower then its normal hidey hole into a puddle or cause it to fall on the ground. A film can in a tree hole or under a rock overhang should stay dry for years as long as its out of direct contact with moisture. Put it back wrong and on the ground it goes to give you a mushy log. There's also the possibilty of branches falling, rock/mud slides and the top just not being put back on tight and right. I do my best to make sure I have a nice watertight container to begin with. Last night I tested 3. I put toilet paper in all three and 2 of them stayed nice and dry. Folgers loses again and into the recycling bin it went. The whole idea behind waterproofing is just a little extra added protection. I just printed out some cool looking stash notes and some more logs and they both fit into a nice little 3"x4" baggy. I don't think I'll ever buy notebooks again. My idea is to get people to sign there names on the log and to log their experiences on the computer. I would however like to know where I could find wider logs. like 4"x11" would be nice. There should be enough space on a log like that to last my caches for a year and maybe as long as 3 years or more. I've signed a few mushy logs and I know that a nice clean log and cache leaves a good impression on people's opinion of your caches. I'm trying to hold myself to a higher quality of cache. More history caches, cito caches, educational caches and caches that are just plain thought about before placing them. We have quite a low cache saturation in my area so I do put out roadside micros as well for the numbers freeks. My home town has 28 caches in a 10 mile radius, the next town 44, Where I live now has 92. So I want to be able to put out a lot of quality caches and to do so require a lot of containers. I can't afford the 46 ammo cans that I'd need for the one series that I'm working on. I can however go to wally world and get free film cans. The white fuji ones work the best. I'll be looking for the best possible location for each one. I'm not about to toss them out the door and get the coords and post them. So waterproofing is definately high on my list with this series. Swizzle

[+swizzle]

Those witz containers look cool. Some of them look like the first aid and survival kits that they sell at target. Another problem I'm experiencing lately is condensation on one of my waterfalls caches. Swizzle

[Quentonious]

Yeah, Witz is cheaper than pelican and otterbox, but I've tested them myself, and they are completely waterproof!

Edited July 30, 2009 by Quentonious

[+swizzle]

I hope the pic works alright. This is my newest baby. I shall call him bugger. There is a mountain close by called big nose. I hope to place him close to that mountain someday. Swizzle

 

[+Harry Dolphin]

I've had good luck so far with heat lamination, using my iron at a low temperature.

[+swizzle]

Where do you get laminate? I got some self adhesive stuff from wally world a while back but you only get 2 sheets. Enough for one 8"x11" sheet of paper. Swizzle

[+briansnat]

Try waterproof paper

[+swizzle]

When I get some extra cash I'll definately get the nat geo paper. I emailed the dura-rite company a while back asking them how waterproof their paper was. I believe I read it here on the forum that its a coated paper. Once the coating is scratched its actually worse then regular paper because the water seeps in and then stays in. I never got a reply back. Makes me wonder about their quailty. Everything I've read definately says the nat geo paper is the best. I'm hoping to set up an underwater cache with nat geo paper. Then I could just poke some holes in the conatiner and let it sink. Anyone wanting to do trades can bring something waterproof. Rubber balls and stuff like that. If I could print out a log sheet that can be submerged for a year with worrying about the paper then I'd be really happy and just change the log once a year. Swizzle

[+Harry Dolphin]

Where do you get laminate? I got some self adhesive stuff from wally world a while back but you only get 2 sheets. Enough for one 8"x11" sheet of paper. Swizzle

 

Staples. About $10 for 25 pouches 3.5x5.5.

[+swizzle]

We had a Staples once. They took it away from us. The next closest one I think is around 30 to 40 miles away. Swizzle

[+mchaos]

I found that if you spray the paper with testors dull coat it is fairly water proof.

 

I put a log that I sprayed with it in a ziplock bag full of water.

 

After a day it was still solid, and you could write on it with a pen. It was soaked, but held up.

 

After 5 days it was not breaking down, but it didn't write as well, but you could still write on it with a pen.

 

After 10 days, still in tact but if you pressed too hard with the pen it would tear.

 

10 days submerged was about the limit before it really started to break down. HOWEVER....

 

I had one that was in a few days after the 10 day mark. I took the log out and let it dry completely and it went another 10 days.

 

None of the logs deteriorated to pulp. The plain log was pulp in less then a day.

 

Drawbacks.. You have to spray both sides, and coat it well for best results. It is time consuming and smelly. It works if you are in a pinch, have no write in rain paper etc and have a leaky container and need to put a log in it.

 

The best to use, which I have not gotten a chance to try out but want too is a nation geo I think, plastic paper. It writes just like paper, but is a plastic, and will not deteriorate.

 

Map sealer, would probably work just the same, and its probably very similar.

[nobody077]

I would also suggest the waterproof paper. You can find it at a dive shop if you have one nearby or sometimes at major sporting goods stores if they carry scuba gear.

[+Chrysalides]

When I get some extra cash I'll definately get the nat geo paper. I emailed the dura-rite company a while back asking them how waterproof their paper was. I believe I read it here on the forum that its a coated paper. Once the coating is scratched its actually worse then regular paper because the water seeps in and then stays in.

There's three types. The cheaper one sounds like what you described - Rite In The Rain. For use in copier or laser printers only. Then there's ink jet printable. Not all pens can write on this one. Finally there's DuraCopy. Again, copier or laser only.

 

Here's their PDF on the subject : http://www.riteintherain.com/images/pdf%20...j_infosheet.pdf

 

But if you just want the blurb on Duracopy :

 

“DuraCopy” is a synthetic stock specifically designed to withstand the high fuser temperatures in your photocopier or laser printer. Not for ink-jet printers.

 

“DuraCopy” is a synthetic tearresistant stock designed for extreme situations. Use for underwater forms or data sheets that are continually in an extremely wet environment.

[+swizzle]

That's what I did have was the dura-rite. I haven't had any complaints about it but then again I've never left it underwater. With the shipping I paid over $6 for one little 3x5 notepad. I can go to big lots and buy 24 regular notebooks for that price. If I had a choice with money being no option then I'd have dura-copy in all of my caches. What I was doing, until I ran out last week, was cutting out a sheet here and there and using it for micro's. I was also cutting off 2 lines for coords for multi's. What I want to do is put dura-copy in my long distant caches. The last thing I want to do is go hiking the same trail 10 times a year for a soggy log. I've got 2 multi's I've been toying with that would be 8 miles of hiking one way. I'm gonna do a test using just plain tape as laminate to see how that will hold up after a week, month and a year of submersion for my stash notes. Where's the cheapest place to get the durarite notebooks or should I just get the nat geo paper and print out micro logs to place in all my caches? I think 25 sheets would be enough for 50 caches a year. Well I think I just answered my own question there. I'll be getting some nat geo paper soon. I'll need it if I'm gonna set up some underwater caches anyways. Swizzle

[Clan Riffster]

A film can in a tree hole or under a rock overhang should stay dry for years as long as its out of direct contact with moisture

I hope you're referring to the opaque variety, with the lid that pops down inside the can? The grey and black variety are not even mildly water resistant. If you check your weather forecast, and over the past several years, the talking head has said the humidity in your area is slightly higher than zero, black and grey film cans are a dismal choice for a cache. (unless, of course, your objective is to get folks to experience the joys of soggy logs... in which case they work great!)

 

A real good litmus test for judging containers: If you have to put the log in a ziplock to protect it, your container has already failed.

[+swizzle]

Yes I'm talking about the the opaque ones. Which I recently read about as being the best choice in film cans. Not the overall best choice by any means but superior to the grey and black. It shouldn't be a problem at all when I get some extra $$ for nat geo paper. Then I can fill the can with water and the only complaints I'll get is from a soggy pencil that fell apart well trying to write. Swizzle

[mrosspa]

If I understand correctly, your trying to protect the paper from moisture. If that is the case, there is a specialized form of paper called "RiteintheRain"

 

They have a geocache form in PDF at their website:

 

http://www.riteintherain.com/images/pdf%20...eocacheForm.pdf

 

I became familiar with their paper with dog training. It is a good product if you are worried about moisture degrading paper.

[+Arrow42]

There really isn't much need to invest all this money into a spray-waterproofing. It costs less then 2 dollars to get staples to laminate a 8.5x11 sheet. Depending on how large your cache note is, you could fit 3 or 4 notes into that space. So long as there is about a quarter inch of clear area around your laminated paper it should remain waterproof for a long time. A good thick laminate also has the advantage of protecting your paper from other kinds of damage and making sure it stays legible for a long time.