do i want an electronic compass?

[+suhplar]

hi all-

i'm relatively new to the game. i've been using my blackberry curve 8330 with cacheberry and blackstar (also running a trial of geocache navigator). i'm considering buying a handheld GPSr as the blackberry seems to cut out under heavy tree cover and this annoys me to no end.

 

i've been reading everything i can find on a few GPSrs and have narrowed it down to a few choices. my main concern/ question is: is an electronic compass necessary if i want to start caching a lot?

i've been considering the garmin venture HC and the vista HCX, also the delorme PN-20. i've pretty much ruled out the delorme for various reasons, so it's down to the 2 garmins.

 

i don't plan on using my new handheld for driving as i use the garmin navigator software on my blackberry. i don't *think* i'll need topo maps or anything, at least not now. walmart.com has both of these units for pretty decent prices, and my local dunham's sports has the venture HC for a good enough price as well (i prefer to buy locally and i hate buying anything for over $20 at walmart).

 

i've read that the electronic compass can be somewhat flaky, but some people really like it. i've been living without one so far, and i can't really find anything that says it makes things easier/ more enjoyable. i'm pretty much set on the venture HC, but if the compass is that big of a deal i can just order the vista HCX instead.

 

thanks for any input!

[+Hrethgir]

I have a Legend HCx, which doesn't have the electronic compass, and a PN-40, which does, and I really like the electronic compass, it's nice to have it always pointing in the right direction even if I'm not moving. But having said that, I did fine finding caches before I got the PN-40, too. It's a convenience thing, but one that I really like.

[+gpsjeep]

If your only purpose for the gps is for geocaching then I wouldn't spend the extra money for a unit that has the electronic compass.

I camp and hike a lot in the north Ga mountains and I love my PN-40 for that use. Even so, I carry a magnetic compass with me.

[+burtsbodgers]

hi all-

i'm relatively new to the game. i've been using my blackberry curve 8330 with cacheberry and blackstar (also running a trial of geocache navigator). i'm considering buying a handheld GPSr as the blackberry seems to cut out under heavy tree cover and this annoys me to no end.

 

i've been reading everything i can find on a few GPSrs and have narrowed it down to a few choices. my main concern/ question is: is an electronic compass necessary if i want to start caching a lot?

i've been considering the garmin venture HC and the vista HCX, also the delorme PN-20. i've pretty much ruled out the delorme for various reasons, so it's down to the 2 garmins.

 

i don't plan on using my new handheld for driving as i use the garmin navigator software on my blackberry. i don't *think* i'll need topo maps or anything, at least not now. walmart.com has both of these units for pretty decent prices, and my local dunham's sports has the venture HC for a good enough price as well (i prefer to buy locally and i hate buying anything for over $20 at walmart).

 

i've read that the electronic compass can be somewhat flaky, but some people really like it. i've been living without one so far, and i can't really find anything that says it makes things easier/ more enjoyable. i'm pretty much set on the venture HC, but if the compass is that big of a deal i can just order the vista HCX instead.

 

thanks for any input!

 

Hi

i have the oregon 300 which like other units has the compass feature, and to be honest i never use it.

But out of the 2 units you have mentioned i would go with the Vista HCX this will be more future proof for you and has the option of having maps added in the future and this is a really big plus!

I have a venture HC as well as the mentioned oregon but this is very limited and difficult to add maps to and very limiting.

However if you can push your budget i would go for the Oregon, out of all the units i have owned this is by far the best and easiest to use and would be worth saving for!

I have had an Etrex, Venture HC, Legend HCX( which if you can get hold of was a lot cheaper than the Vista),colorado 300 and now the oregon. All these within a year of starting caching, so it is worth getting it right to start with if you can.

Just to clarify the Venture HC's are for Scouting uses although we do sometimes take them caching as well.

Hope this helps

[+twolpert]

Electronic compass is definitely not necessary for caching. Personally, though, I do find it helpful. The main advantage is that it pretty much eliminates the "bumble bee dance" near the cache. It provides a "bearing to next" even when you are not moving. On the other hand, the bearing pointer on some compass-equipped units does exhibit instability (swings in circles) when near the cache. Can't speak to the Vistas. Colorado is unstable, PN-40 is not.

 

Bottom line -- YMMV

[+BlueDeuce]

The Vista HCx is a wonderful unit. Not sure what Walmart is offering but you can get one from Amazon for $191.95. I've never had a problem with the compass being flaky, you just have to calibrate them after every battery change. The compass feature is very handy for caching in rough, slow moving areas and you don't have to concern yourself with keeping a steady movement.

 

You can get free topos and the expanded memory can also be used for holding additional waypoints.

 

The Vista HCx is probably the best handheld unit out there. If you can afford it, go for it.

[+Tequila]

I have the OR 300 and it is the first unit that I have actually used the compass. I really like it.

 

But it is probably not worth the extra $50 if cost is an issue.

 

AND: It is NOT a replacement for a real compass if you are going into the wilderness. YOu should always carry a real compass.

[+pigpen4x4]

When my brother and my wife were conspiring to get me into this silly obsession, he strongly recommended the EC.

I have turned it off a few times just to see, and didn’t like it.

I guess it's what you're used to.

If you buy one with it, you can certainly turn it off.

Find a used one if you can, then if you still enjoy the game buy a SDR* unit.

I have a Vista HCx, and even though I favor my PN40, it's still a great unit.

Good luck with your decision, and remember, even 'Lil Yeller will find caches!

 

 

*S Deluxe Royal

[+DonB]

I have the Ifinder Hunt with the electronic compass and I wouldn't buy another GPS without it.

[+GeoJunkie]

I have an Oregon 300 and the compass seems to be more of an annoyance than a help. Not because I wouldn't like to use it, but because it's 2D and has to be constantly recalibrated, and spends most of its time telling me to hold it level, even when it is. Half the time I end up turning it off.

 

If I could move over to a PN-40 or up to an Oregon 550 with the 3-D compass, it would be much better.

 

So, IMHO, ECs are good to have, but 3-D versions are far superior.

[+StarBrand]

Some cachers will tell you that the Electronic compass is a must have. They will not cache without one. Best part of thier GPS unit.

 

Others (like me) think they are a cumbersome waste of time and money. The jerky arrow it produces is more of a distraction then a help and the frequent calibrations are annoying.

 

Only you will know what camp you fall in after using one.

Edited July 30, 2009 by StarBrand

[+Renegade Knight]

... is an electronic compass necessary if i want to start caching a lot? ...

i've read that the electronic compass can be somewhat flaky, ...

 

I have found every electronic compass I've ever had flaky so I can take them or leave them. On my current GPS if i could have saved a few bucks opting out of the compass I would have. However that wasnt' an option.

 

However they do one thing for caching. If you stand still, your GPS can point to the cache. Without the electronic compass you have to be moving. The difference between the two is about 3 steps. It's never bothered me.

 

You do not at all need a compass to use your GPS and find all kinds of caches. It's not a handcap to not have one. Having one can be nice if you like that stand still thing. If you don't mind the three steps you will do just fine without. Your call.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

... The main advantage is that it pretty much eliminates the "bumble bee dance" near the cache....

I haven't found this to be true. You still have to do the hula or drunken bee dance to find ground zero once you are within 10' or so. The pointer doesn't bounce as much, but the "distance to waypoint" number reacts just the same as before.

[+twolpert]

You still have to do the hula or drunken bee dance to find ground zero once you are within 10' or so. The pointer doesn't bounce as much, but the "distance to waypoint" number reacts just the same as before.

In my limited experience (only two different units), this seems to depend a lot on how well the unit smooths out multi-path effects. My Colorado is awful at it. I do experience a lot of fluctuation in distance to next when I am close to GZ. Which leads to a certain amount of wandering around, just as you suggest. On the other hand, my PN-40 does a much better job. In many (not all -- nothing is perfect) cases, I can walk right up to GZ on a single approach.

 

The reason that I attribute this to better mutli-path smoothing is the tracks on the two units. The Colorado generates the characteristic "spider web" even when I am standing still. The PN-40 mostly just sits in one spot. (And yes, I'm using them side by side.)

 

But who knows -- it could just be a matter of perception

[+Team Veverca]

You still have to do the hula or drunken bee dance to find ground zero once you are within 10' or so. The pointer doesn't bounce as much, but the "distance to waypoint" number reacts just the same as before.

I don't have to do that on my Oregon. But I do have to calibrate it a lot (I just recently found out that the pouch which contained my device had a magnet inside and that messed up my compass every time).

[+Teddy2k]

I leave the electronic compass on my Colorado 300 turned off. Why?

 

1) I found that I had to re-calibrate it almost every time I turned the CO on. Garmin says that you should only need to do this when you change the batteries. I call bulls***.

 

2) Unless I have the CO EXACTLY flat, the compass would do crazy things like show the pointer pointing behind me, as if it thought I was walking backwards. It's just a little too finicky for what I expected from a 2-axis compass.

 

Maybe an OR550 owner can chime in to let the masses know how the 3-axis compass is compared to a 2-axis compass. I'm hoping that is alleviates the problems in #2, but I have to assume that #1 would still hold true.

[+TotemLake]

Calibration of the 3-D compass is still required. The advantage to the 3-D compass is you don't have to have it flat. The lack of a 3-D compass is one of the main reasons I didn't buy a Garmin when I finally purchased my DeLorme. I'm glad to see Garmin finally come out with one.

 

Now as far as calibration is required, it should only happen when you change batteries. However, there are conditions when it might be necessary to do so at other times. And never calibrate near items that may cause issues... large ferrous metal objects and electrical fields to name a couple. Being close to these can also cause issues when attempting to read the compass even after calibration.

[+suhplar]

wow, i woke up and there's so many replies, thanks everyone for the input! i most likely am buying a used vista HCX from the for sale/ trade forum here on Groundspeak. it looks like the compass is worth a little extra, plus i found some free wisconsin topo maps that i can load onto it to mess around with. oh god i can't wait!

thanks again! you guys rock!

[+Renegade Knight]

...

In my limited experience (only two different units), this seems to depend a lot on how well the unit smooths out multi-path effects. My Colorado is awful at it. I do experience a lot of fluctuation in distance to next when I am close to GZ. Which leads to a certain amount of wandering around, just as you suggest. On the other hand, my PN-40 does a much better job. In many (not all -- nothing is perfect) cases, I can walk right up to GZ on a single approach. ...

 

You could be on to something. I've only used Garmins and the big thing I've noticed is that the newer (aka more sensative ) GPSs tend to be more "spaztick" in pointer stablity when I'm fair distance from the cache and about the same when I'm close.

 

Any kind of averaging of the position would tend to reduce the hula wave when you are close and might smooth out some of the nits the newer ones seem to have when far away. Magellan used to use a method of averaging. It resulted in more stablity in some situatins, better performance in some situations, and a constant boomerang effect of folks walking past the cache then coming back around.

[+Renegade Knight]

You still have to do the hula or drunken bee dance to find ground zero once you are within 10' or so. The pointer doesn't bounce as much, but the "distance to waypoint" number reacts just the same as before.

I don't have to do that on my Oregon. But I do have to calibrate it a lot (I just recently found out that the pouch which contained my device had a magnet inside and that messed up my compass every time).

 

We both have an Oregon. It would be interesting to see how we use them differently. We may be doing exactly the same thing and using different terms.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Renegade Knight

[+TotemLake]

...

In my limited experience (only two different units), this seems to depend a lot on how well the unit smooths out multi-path effects. My Colorado is awful at it. I do experience a lot of fluctuation in distance to next when I am close to GZ. Which leads to a certain amount of wandering around, just as you suggest. On the other hand, my PN-40 does a much better job. In many (not all -- nothing is perfect) cases, I can walk right up to GZ on a single approach. ...

 

You could be on to something. I've only used Garmins and the big thing I've noticed is that the newer (aka more sensative ) GPSs tend to be more "spaztick" in pointer stablity when I'm fair distance from the cache and about the same when I'm close.

 

Any kind of averaging of the position would tend to reduce the hula wave when you are close and might smooth out some of the nits the newer ones seem to have when far away. Magellan used to use a method of averaging. It resulted in more stablity in some situatins, better performance in some situations, and a constant boomerang effect of folks walking past the cache then coming back around.

Boomerang effect. Yah, I notice this only happens on the PN when the number of satellites locked are less than 6 providing a marginal 3-D signal. Otherwise, the PN is much more stable as twolpert noted.

[+Prime Suspect]

... The main advantage is that it pretty much eliminates the "bumble bee dance" near the cache....

I haven't found this to be true. You still have to do the hula or drunken bee dance to find ground zero once you are within 10' or so. The pointer doesn't bounce as much, but the "distance to waypoint" number reacts just the same as before.

Bother to find a "ground zero" once you're within 10' is a pointless exercise anyway.

[+twolpert]

Bother to find a "ground zero" once you're within 10' is a pointless exercise anyway.

I agree -- most of the time. We do, however, have a local cacher who delights in hiding camo'd Bison tubes in the woods. Unfortunately, he's also really good at it.

 

Also, some of the units (like my CO) are unstable as far away as 30 feet in bad conditions. That can be a pretty big circle.

[+Renegade Knight]

... The main advantage is that it pretty much eliminates the "bumble bee dance" near the cache....

I haven't found this to be true. You still have to do the hula or drunken bee dance to find ground zero once you are within 10' or so. The pointer doesn't bounce as much, but the "distance to waypoint" number reacts just the same as before.

Bother to find a "ground zero" once you're within 10' is a pointless exercise anyway.

True enough. I like to anyway. When I'm doing this the other guys normally find the cache.