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Thoughts about "Urban Caches"


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I've been seeing a lot of so called 'urban caches' recently. So many, in fact, that they are becoming routine. For the most part, these are fun, but a couple of versions make me uncomfortable.

Examples are the fake electrical outlets, and fake switch plate covers

 

Sometimes, the actual cache IS the fake electrical outlet, or the switch plate cover, but I've been seeing quite a few caches where the real item nearby has been either forcibly busted open or has been opened with a screwdriver and just left hanging there, by someone in search of the cache. Maybe not always cachers, there are still enough run of the mill vandals out there, but you see my point.

 

By far the worst one is the magnetic "Danger" signs. There is a reason some things are marked dangerous, and by having some of the signs out there as caches is just asking for somebody to go poking around where there is really a hazard.

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I can see the potential for somebody getting seriously injured, if not killed, by taking chances with what "maybe is", and "maybe isn't" the cache.

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I've been seeing a lot of so called 'urban caches' recently. So many, in fact, that they are becoming routine. For the most part, these are fun, but a couple of versions make me uncomfortable.

Examples are the fake electrical outlets, and fake switch plate covers

 

Sometimes, the actual cache IS the fake electrical outlet, or the switch plate cover, but I've been seeing quite a few caches where the real item nearby has been either forcibly busted open or has been opened with a screwdriver and just left hanging there, by someone in search of the cache. Maybe not always cachers, there are still enough run of the mill vandals out there, but you see my point.

 

By far the worst one is the magnetic "Danger" signs. There is a reason some things are marked dangerous, and by having some of the signs out there as caches is just asking for somebody to go poking around where there is really a hazard.

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I can see the potential for somebody getting seriously injured, if not killed, by taking chances with what "maybe is", and "maybe isn't" the cache.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. What bothers me is when all the logs say "Clever hide", "Well done", "Great cache". And when the clue isn't specific and real equipment gets manhandled that shouldn't be manhandled. Or I drive 45 minutes to check out this "cool hide" that everyone is enjoying only to find that the "box" is a telephone junction box that to my eyes looks real and I don't want to mess with it.

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There are people who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong and seem to have no conscience in every walk of life . Geocachers are no different: Most are good, but there are a few bad apples in the crowd.

 

I've seen Ground Zeros where every irregation box, electrical box, and sprinkler head in a 100' radius has been damaged. One mystery cache nearby suggests that the cache is red and magnetic and every fire hose box in the parking structure has been forced open or the glass window broken. I could go on and on with stories like this for quite awhile and I've only been caching for a few months.

 

And it's given me a lot of anxiety about whether I want to start making hides because I don't think I want to attract people like that to anyplace I can think of. The situation also gives me a strange sense of respect for lamppost hides in the middle of parking lots: There isn't much out there to wreck.

 

Gawd, did I just type that?

 

Pete

Edited by Curioddity
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I've always considered caches disgused as an electrical container placed among the "live" stuff to be in really poor taste. I've never seen broken or damaged boxes due to the cache but it is easy to believe that it happens. A cache should stand out as different without the need to twist, pull, open or meddle with everything in sight!

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I've always considered caches disgused as an electrical container placed among the "live" stuff to be in really poor taste. I've never seen broken or damaged boxes due to the cache but it is easy to believe that it happens. A cache should stand out as different without the need to twist, pull, open or meddle with everything in sight!

 

For a while as a new cachers I had a couple of hides that would fall into this category, after a few months of caching and finding a few others like it, I decided to archive mine do to the uncomfortable feeling of hunting them. Now and then it takes a bit of a learning process to hone our game.

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There are people who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong . . .

 

Maybe its a matter of the experience to think about what might happen after a cache is placed. In addition to the urban problems, most of us probably have seen caches in the woods, where the gps signal is problematic, that have left the surrounding area with broken branches, overturned rocks, and crushed vegetation. Regardless of where a cache might be placed, owners have to think about placement and give enough information so that the area is not left destroyed in the wake of a cache. And finders need to think about what a reasonable search might entail.

 

I have been wrong in regards to this, but generally I assume that most caches will not require environmental destruction and limit my search accordingly.

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I've always considered caches disgused as an electrical container placed among the "live" stuff to be in really poor taste. I've never seen broken or damaged boxes due to the cache but it is easy to believe that it happens. A cache should stand out as different without the need to twist, pull, open or meddle with everything in sight!

 

I have to give the cachers credit though, the box (which I have found out since is where I suspected the cache is - but I haven't gone back to look) was intact. It did not look damaged. Must be an easy way to get the cover off, but I didn't even try.

 

I thought about writing a note asking if any public utilities have to be tampered with? But I don't want to be the party pooper. Then again, maybe I should go back, find the cache and write my concerns in the log.

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Regardless of where a cache might be placed, owners have to think about placement and give enough information so that the area is not left destroyed in the wake of a cache.

That doesn't help if cachers don't read the descriptions. I've even run into people with a "paperless" GPSr who either don't or just ignore 'em.

 

I rode up on a cache this weekend to find another cacher trampling through a flower bed with eTrex in hand. I had already read the description and it clearly said NOT IN THE FLOWER BED. When I confronted the guy he said he didn't have the money for a "fancy" GPS so he "had to do it the old fashion way."

 

> mutter mutter <

 

So I retrieved the cache the smart way and let him sign it. I doubt he learned anything from the experience because he had a rather defiant attitude so I imagine he kept right on doing things "the old fashion way." Oddly enough, he hasn't logged the cache online. I was hoping he would so I could look at his caching history.

 

Pete

Edited by Curioddity
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When I confronted the guy he said he didn't have the money for a "fancy" GPS so he "had to do it the old fashion way."

Funny... to me the 'old fashion way' is looking at the cache online, reading it, looking at the logs to make sure there hasn't been a bunch of DNF, printing off the paper and then going cache.

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There are people who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong and seem to have no conscience in every walk of life . Geocachers are no different: Most are good, but there are a few bad apples in the crowd.

 

I've seen Ground Zeros where every irregation box, electrical box, and sprinkler head in a 100' radius has been damaged. One mystery cache nearby suggests that the cache is red and magnetic and every fire hose box in the parking structure has been forced open or the glass window broken. I could go on and on with stories like this for quite awhile and I've only been caching for a few months.

 

And it's given me a lot of anxiety about whether I want to start making hides because I don't think I want to attract people like that to anyplace I can think of. The situation also gives me a strange sense of respect for lamppost hides in the middle of parking lots: There isn't much out there to wreck.

 

Gawd, did I just type that?

 

Pete

 

 

Well, from my experience, and I am just your ordinary geocacher, I have come across caches that either "might be" or "might not be" caches and if they look like something electrical, I won't touch them. I am no electrician and unless you know something about electricity, boxes, etc., it's a good idea to stay away from them.

 

Recently I was caching and the coordinates had me right at a telephone pole and there were some funky looking things near the bottom, including a metal pole, wire, a small box, a large metal anchor screw, and I studied it closely but told hubby there was no way I was messing around with it. He agreed and we just deleted that one from our list. It's not worth the risk.

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There are people who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong and seem to have no conscience in every walk of life . Geocachers are no different: Most are good, but there are a few bad apples in the crowd.

 

I've seen Ground Zeros where every irregation box, electrical box, and sprinkler head in a 100' radius has been damaged. One mystery cache nearby suggests that the cache is red and magnetic and every fire hose box in the parking structure has been forced open or the glass window broken. I could go on and on with stories like this for quite awhile and I've only been caching for a few months.

 

And it's given me a lot of anxiety about whether I want to start making hides because I don't think I want to attract people like that to anyplace I can think of. The situation also gives me a strange sense of respect for lamppost hides in the middle of parking lots: There isn't much out there to wreck.

 

Gawd, did I just type that?

 

Pete

 

 

 

Well, from my experience, and I am just your ordinary geocacher, I have come across caches that either "might be" or "might not be" caches and if they look like something electrical, I won't touch them. I am no electrician and unless you know something about electricity, boxes, etc., it's a good idea to stay away from them.

 

Recently I was caching and the coordinates had me right at a telephone pole and there were some funky looking things near the bottom, including a metal pole, wire, a small box, a large metal anchor screw, and I studied it closely but told hubby there was no way I was messing around with it. He agreed and we just deleted that one from our list. It's not worth the risk.

 

I found one that a sprinkler head was used to as a cache hide. I find these troubling.

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...Sometimes, the actual cache IS the fake electrical outlet, or the switch plate cover, but I've been seeing quite a few caches where the real item nearby has been either forcibly busted open or has been opened with a screwdriver and just left hanging there, by someone in search of the cache. Maybe not always cachers, there are still enough run of the mill vandals out there, but you see my point. ...

 

I've seen the issue with fake sprinkler heads and no longer support the cache type becasue of the issues. Personally I'd be 100% ok wiht a "No fake sprinkler head hide" rule.

 

The electrical issue I haven't seen. I've bumped into a few and all have been obviously fake once you got it in your head that maybe they could be the cache. I've never seen a real panel removed for the sake of a cache. However you are the second person to report it this past week.

 

Now in the real world I do see all kinds of busted panels, missing cover plates, and abandoned or vandalized equipment. There are enough bad drivers, vandals, and lack of maintance to ensure a steady supply of this kind of thing without ever involving cachers.

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There are people who apparently can't tell the difference between right and wrong and seem to have no conscience in every walk of life . Geocachers are no different: Most are good, but there are a few bad apples in the crowd.

 

I've seen Ground Zeros where every irregation box, electrical box, and sprinkler head in a 100' radius has been damaged. One mystery cache nearby suggests that the cache is red and magnetic and every fire hose box in the parking structure has been forced open or the glass window broken. I could go on and on with stories like this for quite awhile and I've only been caching for a few months.

 

And it's given me a lot of anxiety about whether I want to start making hides because I don't think I want to attract people like that to anyplace I can think of. The situation also gives me a strange sense of respect for lamppost hides in the middle of parking lots: There isn't much out there to wreck.

 

Gawd, did I just type that?

 

Pete

 

You are ready to graduate from Padawan to Jedi. Or Tadple to Frog depending on your point of view.

 

One of the things to consider with your hide is your finders. If you are going to make a hard hide, make sure the area can be well searched and come out ok. If it can't, best to go with a simpler hide that cachers will find easily and muggles won't find on accident. There is an art to it.

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My biggest problem with urban caches is do people really get permission to hide them. The property that the cache is on my be accessed by the public but it is still private and permission is still needed. Any warning in the description/log about "watch out for angry manager/security/owner" I usually avoid this cache. But yet people place these caches without any thought of the consequences to the finder if they get caught finding it when it's not suppose to be there.

 

I guess the best thing for it is to suggest that it be archived and hit the ignore button. It just gets me angry because it gives geocaching a bad name. OK I'll get off my horse now.

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Hello fellow Geocachers,

I have recently developed a dislike of urban caches. Now don't get me wrong I am a newbie, but like all of you have pointed out, looking in or around guide wires, electrical units and so on is just suspicious. A good urban cache is great, I have found a few, but I have started doing quiries outside the urban sprawl. Our family just enjoys a good low level hike to a cahce with fun swag! Searching for a film container on a street corner or in front of someones house on a public street is uncomfortable and only to sign a tiny log isn't as fun IMHO :) This is one of the best sport/hobbies I have discovered since playing D&D with regular 6-sided dice because Dragon dice weren't available in my area yet! LOL

Edited by rjmv3
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knowschad, I'll bite: an appropriate hide is something you won't damage to check.

 

Up inside the curve of a "2-Hour Parking" sign's post, on the back side of the sign -- that'd be OK since you only have to slide your fingers up there to check. But under an electrical box's lid -- which you have to unscrew -- that strikes me as close cousin to the digging that's forbidden for any new caches.

 

I've only been doing this for a while, so maybe I don't get a vote, but I think a cache owner should either explicitly state in the notes what could be the hide but isn't (and thus what not to damage), or give a Hint that makes it clear what to steer clear of. That might take some of the mystery out of the puzzle at the heart of most caches, but it'll also preserve the sport's reputation and the cache locations themselves.

 

- Will

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I've been seeing a lot of so called 'urban caches' recently. So many, in fact, that they are becoming routine. For the most part, these are fun, but a couple of versions make me uncomfortable.

Examples are the fake electrical outlets, and fake switch plate covers

 

Sometimes, the actual cache IS the fake electrical outlet, or the switch plate cover, but I've been seeing quite a few caches where the real item nearby has been either forcibly busted open or has been opened with a screwdriver and just left hanging there, by someone in search of the cache. Maybe not always cachers, there are still enough run of the mill vandals out there, but you see my point.

 

By far the worst one is the magnetic "Danger" signs. There is a reason some things are marked dangerous, and by having some of the signs out there as caches is just asking for somebody to go poking around where there is really a hazard.

 

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I can see the potential for somebody getting seriously injured, if not killed, by taking chances with what "maybe is", and "maybe isn't" the cache.

 

Many people share the same concerns as you do (me included). I'm of the opinion that the majority of electrical hides should be archived.

 

The mysterious green box at the end of your driveway, ..... is called a padmount transformer!

 

Unacceptable Cache Hides - In Your Opinion

 

Shock Danger of Electrified Objects (Lampposts, etc.) Revisited, Another Cautionary Tale of Electrified Objects on Urban Streets

 

Shock Danger of Electrified Objects (Lampposts, etc.) Revisited

 

Utility Boxes

 

Electrical Box Caches?, Any surprises?

 

Unintended Consequences - Safety, What are we teaching with our hides?

Edited by Kit Fox
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Hey folks,

 

I like a lot of urban caches, but I have looked for some caches that had me wondering if they were hidden inside electrical boxes or other utility features that I did not think were wise to tempt people folks to open. In each of these cases, the listing could have made a statement telling folks to not look for the cache in the "whatever" that might be a bad idea. Then again, there are those folks who do not look at the listings. I don't know how they do that.

 

As far as good urban cache examples: there is always the standard LPC skirt cache, the LPC variation where a short piece of PVC with a cap is stuck in the ground a few inches alongside the LPC concrete base and contains the log, various magnetic containers which can be hid many safe places, and a host of others too numerous to mention. I still think the key is to have owners use the listing to describe what is off base or off limits and encourage finders to read the listings.

 

Best wishes,

Dave Wile

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My thoughts on urban caches is that they can be the best hides out there. I didn't say the funnest though. Having said that, the majority of them that I have come across can make a person yawn.

I like seeing how people can be creative with an urban hide.

I don't give out spoilers but suffice to say, some have been difficult to find and some have been downright ingenius in thei creativity.

 

I have done a fair amount of non urban caches and they can get just as yawnish as the urban ones but all in all, they are decent caches. I have yet to see any "lame" caches since I feel there is value even in a LPC.

What I won't rush out to find is a micro in the woods. They might as well be needles in haystacks at that point. Before I go out in the woods to look for a cache, I will look for the container size. If its a micro, I will, maybe, do it if I find myself near it for another reason.

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I have been doing this for a while now, and I have never, ever seen a cache that needed to be opened with a screwdriver, electric box or otherwise. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'd sure love to see proof of their existance.

 

As far as good urban cache examples: there is always the standard LPC skirt cache, the LPC variation where a short piece of PVC with a cap is stuck in the ground a few inches alongside the LPC concrete base and contains the log, various magnetic containers which can be hid many safe places, and a host of others too numerous to mention. I still think the key is to have owners use the listing to describe what is off base or off limits and encourage finders to read the listings.

 

Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned.

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I have been doing this for a while now, and I have never, ever seen a cache that needed to be opened with a screwdriver, electric box or otherwise. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'd sure love to see proof of their existance....

 

Good point. I haven't seen any either. I've seen them where you need a way to hook the cache to pull it up out of a hole. That's about it.

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I have been doing this for a while now, and I have never, ever seen a cache that needed to be opened with a screwdriver, electric box or otherwise. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'd sure love to see proof of their existance.

 

As far as good urban cache examples: there is always the standard LPC skirt cache, the LPC variation where a short piece of PVC with a cap is stuck in the ground a few inches alongside the LPC concrete base and contains the log, various magnetic containers which can be hid many safe places, and a host of others too numerous to mention. I still think the key is to have owners use the listing to describe what is off base or off limits and encourage finders to read the listings.

 

Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned.

We have found one that specificially stated in the description that a screwdriver was needed (but that cache is now archived). We have also found several that were electrical boxes, but if one looked closely, it was quite obvious that the "fake" part just didn't fit with its surroundings. (When was the last time you saw a combo padlock on a electical box at the base of a telephone pole or a little shiny silver metal cover on a large and otherwise dark green electical transformer?)

However, we did find one that was so real looking that we were at the give-up point when it donned on us that it had a geocaching logo on it, DUH!

 

We do share a general concern about the safety and/or legality of certain geocaches. Bottom line is that if we don't police ourselves, we leave the job for someone else. However, we are sure that we are just "preaching to the choir".

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The one that bothered me was one that was one of those magnetic sheets stuck to a power company box with big power cables running into it.

 

I really was not comfortable feeling around that thing looking for the cache (it is not clear it is a sheet on the outside and not some nano stuck somewhere).

 

Sure, if everything is in working order it is safe but I would hate to be the one that finds out for the power company that there is a short they didn't know about.

 

Not to mention even though it is on public land, technically that box is private property and I find it hard to believe that the power company would like having caches hidden in or on that for just those kind of liability issues.

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Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned.

 

What difference does it make?

 

Just because no one named many alternatives to electrical type hides doesn't make all those legitimate concerns about them go away. Even if there were no alternatives, that has nothing at all do with whether they are irresponsible and/or encourage unsafe behavior.

 

'I can't think of any thing else' is a pretty weak argument in support of them.

 

But just to play your game: I have only been doing this for a couple months and found plenty of urban hides that don't involve anything electrical: in gaps in walls, in sign and fenceposts, and magnets stuck everywhere: on signs, railings, sculptures, freeway footbridges, etc. etc..

 

There are also a couple of really good and creative ones I don't want to mention how they are hidden because it would give too much away (including a Butcherandswimmer one that I think is truly great that I see you also found) but it appears there are at least a few people around the Twin Cities who can think up ways to make urban hides without resorting to electrical things.

Edited by EvanMinn
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Hey KnowsChad,

 

Your "Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned." statement seems a bit harsh. With only about 160 finds to my name, I don't begin to have the experience you have. Most of my finds have been of the urban variety, and even with my limited experience I have seen a fair number of urban caches that have had some variety. I did not check your personal experience with caches other than to see that you have a whole lot of them. I find it hard to believe that with your experience you have not seen some clever and fun urban caches.

 

Since you said you would love to hear more of them mentioned, I will list a few more that I have seen. Remember though, you do have far more experience than I, and I am sure whatever I have seen you have also seen many more times than I. In all fairness to urban caches, I would also point out that I have found several non-urban caches that consisted of going to the coordinates listed, looking for some big tree or whatever, and finding some type of out of placee cover that is hiding a peanut butter jar or ammo can. While I have seen this variation on a theme several times, I still am happy to note every one of them as having been found.

 

Now for some more urban hides I have thought to be fun:

 

1. A monofiliment line tied to a storm water drain near a lamp post. I first headed for the lamp post looking for the obvious. Did not see the monofiliment line at the drain until I finally went over and stood on the drain looking for something. The line had a container at the end of it.

 

2. A camo colored cigar tube hanging from a fir tree bough in a copse of trees at the entrance to a local college. Easy enough to find, but interesting to me. There was a similar cache in a town park a few miles away, but it was way up in a tree that I was not about to climb. Would these two similar caches count as two even though I did not "find" the one out of my reach?

 

3. Magnetic key case under a bench in a park. I have found several of this type, and I will be happy to find more. Of course, magnetic key cases can be placed in many different urban settings - surely you would not have me list all of these?

 

4. A very small tube hidden inside a sign post and held in place by a monofiliment line that was very hard to see. Again, the sign was about fifteen to twenty feet away from another object that at first glace seemed to be the likely hiding place. I did not see the monofiliment line until I heard something make a noise inside the sign when I moved it by leaning up against it. Seemed kind of clever to me.

 

5. I spent hours looking for my first or second find when I first started down in Florida. It was inside a chain link fence post about three inches below the top which was over my head and covered by a cap. The container was a 1.5 inch PVC pipe very cleverly made. Lots of DNFs on that one.

 

6. I have seen several micros hidden in a small hole at the base of some very large boulders in urban areas. Not genius, but fun and interesting.

 

7. At a local little league park, the score board is mounted on two telephone type poles, and a porta-john is located nearby. The listing states that the cache is not in or around the porta-john. If you go to the two support poles for the scoreboard, there are two electrical conduits that go up the one pole to the scoreboard. Between the two electrical conduits and behind a bracket holding them in place is a piece of old 2X2 inch stick about two and a half feet long. It is just sitting behind the bracket and can be taken out. If you do take it out, you have to look at the bottom to find a hole drilled into it with the cache inside. I don't know about others, but that seemed clever to me.

 

8. Another cache at a baseball field. Simply a micro hanging from a hook under one of the team benches. Not all that hard, but fun for me.

 

9. There is a sandwich shop in a shopping center not far from where I live. The coordinates take you right to a lamp post, and as you pull up to the lamp post, you expect to lift the skirt and sign the log. Wrong! It is near the lamp post, but not on it at all. Around the lamp post there is a ten foot border of ballast sized limestone rocks. I started moving some of them around a bit, but I was thinking needle in a haystack. Finally, just three feet from the lamp post concrete base, my grandson moved two or three rocks and said he found it. I was three feet from him and did not see it. When I looked closer, we found an ammo can painted in limestone colors and having limestone rocks glued to it. If that isn't clever to others, I give up. An ammo can well hidden in a shopping center parking lot - and not behind a building, but in front where people park to go to the sandwich shop.

 

You said you would love to hear them mentioned. Now surely you have to have some appreciation for some of the hides I mentioned above. Again I admit my being a novice compared to you, but if you just blow off all urban caches as unworthy of anyone's interest, I think you are being a bit narrow in your view.

 

I can think of a few places I have been throughout this wide country where excellent caches could be hidden, but the truth of the matter is that I am not likely to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon again in my lifetime. Urban caches are getting to be more my speed every day. However, I may just make it back to Delicate Arch again, and if I could get the opportunity to leave a cache there...

 

Best wishes,

Dave Wile

 

I wanted to edit my comments by adding the following:

 

When I said I thought your comment was a bit harsh, I know it was not made in any mean spirited manner. When I said I thought you might be a bit narrow in your view of urban caches, I also did not intend to be mean spirited in any manner. I perceived no malice and did not intend to project any malice. Again

 

Best wishes to you. Dave Wile

Edited by davidwile
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I've found enough magnetic keyholders tucked under the edge of a transformer box that it still creeps me out a bit when I come to search for them. I myself will not hide such a cache - I figure if I'm not comfortable searching for it how can I ask my friends to search for it?

 

I have seen clever hides that used electrical components, and rely on the "What's out of place here" cammo - a junction box tucked into a corner with no cabling coming into it, and "electrical outlet" on the side of a tree or telephone pole, or the ubiquitous solid outlet plate attached magnetically to the side of a Lampost. But if GZ seems to be near a big green box that is humming I'll usually pass it by.

 

Sprinkler head caches seem to be popular here locally, and I've seen enough caches where all the sprinkler heads in the area have been trashed to not place anything like that myself. Again, unless it is out of place - a sprinkler head in the middle of the woods? OK.

 

Urban caches that I admit to really liking are the fake hollowed out nut+bolts that we find attached with a magnet to metal signs, or in Guard Rails. A friend of mine is a machinist and has made us a number of these little beauties.

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I have been doing this for a while now, and I have never, ever seen a cache that needed to be opened with a screwdriver, electric box or otherwise. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'd sure love to see proof of their existance.

 

I've got hides that I'm archiving slowly, there are issues at ground zero that didn't start until I hid a cache there.

 

One example states dont climb on the fountain, yet people do it. They have also busted the water valve box cover, pried open an alectrical junction box, torn up the landscaping destroyed the sprinklers (all of them around) and dug up the paving stones - all for an obvious fake rock. next to the curb

 

When I show up to an urban cache (getting rarer I do) it is obviouse what is damage from vandals, kids, crackheads and bad drivers and what a few bad apple geocachers are doing. I've worked new construction and maintenance on these areas and the differences stand out. Plus you can tell what is recent or not.

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I have been doing this for a while now, and I have never, ever seen a cache that needed to be opened with a screwdriver, electric box or otherwise. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'd sure love to see proof of their existance.

 

I've got hides that I'm archiving slowly, there are issues at ground zero that didn't start until I hid a cache there.

 

One example states dont climb on the fountain, yet people do it. They have also busted the water valve box cover, pried open an alectrical junction box, torn up the landscaping destroyed the sprinklers (all of them around) and dug up the paving stones - all for an obvious fake rock. next to the curb

 

When I show up to an urban cache (getting rarer I do) it is obviouse what is damage from vandals, kids, crackheads and bad drivers and what a few bad apple geocachers are doing. I've worked new construction and maintenance on these areas and the differences stand out. Plus you can tell what is recent or not.

 

Be careful. Pretty soon there will be a handful of the usuals telling you that its either your fault all the destruction is happening or accuse you of jumping to conclusions about who is actually doing the damage.

 

But I agree with you.

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Urban hide are probably going to be problematic for the foreseeable future.

Most (if not all)' of the truly worthy locations have already been taken in most urban areas, so hiders are resorting to 'clever' and 'unique' hides in otherwise unattractive locations.

 

Too many cachers do not have the patience to wait until they see a truly worthy location before hiding their cache.

 

There is pressure to participate, and the cache must be hidden NOW, TODAY!

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Urban hide are probably going to be problematic for the foreseeable future.

Most (if not all)' of the truly worthy locations have already been taken in most urban areas, so hiders are resorting to 'clever' and 'unique' hides in otherwise unattractive locations.

 

Too many cachers do not have the patience to wait until they see a truly worthy location before hiding their cache.

 

There is pressure to participate, and the cache must be hidden NOW, TODAY!

Yes, and I've been there. Part of the reason for slowly archiving. Unfortunatly the ones doing the most damage are the best ones.

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My biggest problem with urban caches is do people really get permission to hide them. ...

 

They agreed they got adequate permission when they submitted the listing for publishing. That's enough unless otherwise shown to be an issue.

 

That's why I said that if I get into any arguments with property managers/security, I stop hunting it, drop a SBA note on the cache with the reason why and move on down the road. My wife has several caches placed, so we understand the whole bit about submission means you have permission.

 

What my point is is that if these kind of confrontations could be avoided up front, then geocaching as a whole would be better off because land managers/property managers would be more apt to allow use of their property. Security through obscurity is only good so far.

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I have been doing this for a while now, and I have never, ever seen a cache that needed to be opened with a screwdriver, electric box or otherwise. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'd sure love to see proof of their existence....

 

Good point. I haven't seen any either. I've seen them where you need a way to hook the cache to pull it up out of a hole. That's about it.

 

Just reading through the new posts today and found a few very familar posts about cache hiders not needing any experience to hide a cache. In most respects I agree with this. There are people who enjoy hiding more than finding and they should be able to enjoy the game the way they would like.

 

After getting down this thread this far, I did think of one instance where some seeking experience might come in handy before hiding a cache. You are hiding a camo'd urban cache and it is really really good, but it is near some things that could get damaged if they got geo-fondled. Experience as a seeker might help the hider understand what the seekers might do when presented multiple options. Seeking experience might help prevent this with either a better written description on the cache page or a better hide location away from potential problems.

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Hey KnowsChad,

 

Your "Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned." statement seems a bit harsh. With only about 160 finds to my name, I don't begin to have the experience you have. Most of my finds have been of the urban variety, and even with my limited experience I have seen a fair number of urban caches that have had some variety. I did not check your personal experience with caches other than to see that you have a whole lot of them. I find it hard to believe that with your experience you have not seen some clever and fun urban caches.

 

Because he kinda looks like a movie star, I won't post the pic I have of Knowschad at an event in Minnesota a few years ago. It is too bad because it would be one of those pictures that is worth a 1000 words. It is of several cachers standing around him, while he explains one of his hiding techniques. I've seen his work and it is very good.

 

Long story short: The guy is a master hider and a very creative mind. He also has a geo-conscious that I wish was contagious.

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Hey KnowsChad,

 

Your "Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned." statement seems a bit harsh. With only about 160 finds to my name, I don't begin to have the experience you have. Most of my finds have been of the urban variety, and even with my limited experience I have seen a fair number of urban caches that have had some variety. I did not check your personal experience with caches other than to see that you have a whole lot of them. I find it hard to believe that with your experience you have not seen some clever and fun urban caches.

 

Because he kinda looks like a movie star, I won't post the pic I have of Knowschad at an event in Minnesota a few years ago. It is too bad because it would be one of those pictures that is worth a 1000 words. It is of several cachers standing around him, while he explains one of his hiding techniques. I've seen his work and it is very good.

 

Long story short: The guy is a master hider and a very creative mind. He also has a geo-conscious that I wish was contagious.

 

So you are accusing him of being disingenuous when he implies he doesn't know of numerous alternatives to electrical hides?

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Hey KnowsChad,

 

Your "Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned." statement seems a bit harsh. With only about 160 finds to my name, I don't begin to have the experience you have. Most of my finds have been of the urban variety, and even with my limited experience I have seen a fair number of urban caches that have had some variety. I did not check your personal experience with caches other than to see that you have a whole lot of them. I find it hard to believe that with your experience you have not seen some clever and fun urban caches.

 

Since you said you would love to hear more of them mentioned, I will list a few more that I have seen. Remember though, you do have far more experience than I, and I am sure whatever I have seen you have also seen many more times than I. In all fairness to urban caches, I would also point out that I have found several non-urban caches that consisted of going to the coordinates listed, looking for some big tree or whatever, and finding some type of out of placee cover that is hiding a peanut butter jar or ammo can. While I have seen this variation on a theme several times, I still am happy to note every one of them as having been found.

 

Now for some more urban hides I have thought to be fun:

 

1. A monofiliment line tied to a storm water drain near a lamp post. I first headed for the lamp post looking for the obvious. Did not see the monofiliment line at the drain until I finally went over and stood on the drain looking for something. The line had a container at the end of it.

 

2. A camo colored cigar tube hanging from a fir tree bough in a copse of trees at the entrance to a local college. Easy enough to find, but interesting to me. There was a similar cache in a town park a few miles away, but it was way up in a tree that I was not about to climb. Would these two similar caches count as two even though I did not "find" the one out of my reach?

 

3. Magnetic key case under a bench in a park. I have found several of this type, and I will be happy to find more. Of course, magnetic key cases can be placed in many different urban settings - surely you would not have me list all of these?

 

4. A very small tube hidden inside a sign post and held in place by a monofiliment line that was very hard to see. Again, the sign was about fifteen to twenty feet away from another object that at first glace seemed to be the likely hiding place. I did not see the monofiliment line until I heard something make a noise inside the sign when I moved it by leaning up against it. Seemed kind of clever to me.

 

5. I spent hours looking for my first or second find when I first started down in Florida. It was inside a chain link fence post about three inches below the top which was over my head and covered by a cap. The container was a 1.5 inch PVC pipe very cleverly made. Lots of DNFs on that one.

 

6. I have seen several micros hidden in a small hole at the base of some very large boulders in urban areas. Not genius, but fun and interesting.

 

7. At a local little league park, the score board is mounted on two telephone type poles, and a porta-john is located nearby. The listing states that the cache is not in or around the porta-john. If you go to the two support poles for the scoreboard, there are two electrical conduits that go up the one pole to the scoreboard. Between the two electrical conduits and behind a bracket holding them in place is a piece of old 2X2 inch stick about two and a half feet long. It is just sitting behind the bracket and can be taken out. If you do take it out, you have to look at the bottom to find a hole drilled into it with the cache inside. I don't know about others, but that seemed clever to me.

 

8. Another cache at a baseball field. Simply a micro hanging from a hook under one of the team benches. Not all that hard, but fun for me.

 

9. There is a sandwich shop in a shopping center not far from where I live. The coordinates take you right to a lamp post, and as you pull up to the lamp post, you expect to lift the skirt and sign the log. Wrong! It is near the lamp post, but not on it at all. Around the lamp post there is a ten foot border of ballast sized limestone rocks. I started moving some of them around a bit, but I was thinking needle in a haystack. Finally, just three feet from the lamp post concrete base, my grandson moved two or three rocks and said he found it. I was three feet from him and did not see it. When I looked closer, we found an ammo can painted in limestone colors and having limestone rocks glued to it. If that isn't clever to others, I give up. An ammo can well hidden in a shopping center parking lot - and not behind a building, but in front where people park to go to the sandwich shop.

 

You said you would love to hear them mentioned. Now surely you have to have some appreciation for some of the hides I mentioned above. Again I admit my being a novice compared to you, but if you just blow off all urban caches as unworthy of anyone's interest, I think you are being a bit narrow in your view.

 

I can think of a few places I have been throughout this wide country where excellent caches could be hidden, but the truth of the matter is that I am not likely to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon again in my lifetime. Urban caches are getting to be more my speed every day. However, I may just make it back to Delicate Arch again, and if I could get the opportunity to leave a cache there...

 

Best wishes,

Dave Wile

 

I wanted to edit my comments by adding the following:

 

When I said I thought your comment was a bit harsh, I know it was not made in any mean spirited manner. When I said I thought you might be a bit narrow in your view of urban caches, I also did not intend to be mean spirited in any manner. I perceived no malice and did not intend to project any malice. Again

 

Best wishes to you. Dave Wile

 

Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

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Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

And electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

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Of the numerous gripes I have regarding urban hides, I guess my strongest is in regards to the environment.

I am a lover of nature. I could wander the woods & swamps all day, and be happy as a clam.

But once I find myself in a sweltering, 500 acre, exhaust laden parking lot, dodging soccer moms in SUVs, my fun meter kwickly hits zero.

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Hey KnowsChad,

 

Your "Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned." statement seems a bit harsh. With only about 160 finds to my name, I don't begin to have the experience you have. Most of my finds have been of the urban variety, and even with my limited experience I have seen a fair number of urban caches that have had some variety. I did not check your personal experience with caches other than to see that you have a whole lot of them. I find it hard to believe that with your experience you have not seen some clever and fun urban caches.

 

Because he kinda looks like a movie star, I won't post the pic I have of Knowschad at an event in Minnesota a few years ago. It is too bad because it would be one of those pictures that is worth a 1000 words. It is of several cachers standing around him, while he explains one of his hiding techniques. I've seen his work and it is very good.

 

Long story short: The guy is a master hider and a very creative mind. He also has a geo-conscious that I wish was contagious.

 

So you are accusing him of being disingenuous when he implies he doesn't know of numerous alternatives to electrical hides?

 

No, but I don't think it is too much of a stretch to accuse you of trying to start trouble :D

 

I was speaking to his experience, integrity, and skill as a hider because I know he would never do it himself. Because we have discussed urban hides at length together, I know that he has not only seen some pretty cleaver urban hides, he's put out quite a few himself. Maybe it might be helpful to reread his post. He was saying that he has never seen an electrical box that needed a screwdriver to open it. Not that electrical boxes are unusual or that they lack alternatives.

Edited by Team GeoBlast
Link to comment

 

Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

Based on my two months of geocaching experience, it is my opinion that electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

 

I fixed this for you Evan

Edited by Team GeoBlast
Link to comment

 

Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

Based on my two months of geocaching experience, it is my opinion that electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

 

I fixed this for you Evan

I wasn't going to post in this thread because it seems pointless to have the same discussions over and over. However, I could not resist pointing out the fact that you guys are on the same side of this issue. I don't know why you are bothering to argue with one another.
Link to comment

 

Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

Based on my two months of geocaching experience, it is my opinion that electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

 

I fixed this for you Evan

I wasn't going to post in this thread because it seems pointless to have the same discussions over and over. However, I could not resist pointing out the fact that you guys are on the same side of this issue. I don't know why you are bothering to argue with one another.

 

Oh, thank you. I needed that chuckle. :D:D:D

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The one that bothered me was one that was one of those magnetic sheets stuck to a power company box with big power cables running into it.

 

I really was not comfortable feeling around that thing looking for the cache (it is not clear it is a sheet on the outside and not some nano stuck somewhere).

 

Sure, if everything is in working order it is safe but I would hate to be the one that finds out for the power company that there is a short they didn't know about.

 

Not to mention even though it is on public land, technically that box is private property and I find it hard to believe that the power company would like having caches hidden in or on that for just those kind of liability issues.

 

... and so, you just walked away from that one, right?

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Hey KnowsChad,

 

Your "Doesn't sound like much variety going on there, aside from "and a host of others too numerous to mention." I'd love to hear them mentioned." statement seems a bit harsh.

 

Yes, I guess, in hindsight, it was a bit harsh. But the point that I was trying to make is that I wish that people would not attempt to place limitations on cache creativity just because of some real or imagined fears.

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Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

Based on my two months of geocaching experience, it is my opinion that electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

 

I fixed this for you Evan

I wasn't going to post in this thread because it seems pointless to have the same discussions over and over. However, I could not resist pointing out the fact that you guys are on the same side of this issue. I don't know why you are bothering to argue with one another.

 

You certainly have a way of making a thread more valuable to the reader.

 

My point was a) Knowschad was talking about caches that require tools to open :D Evan thought he was talking about electric boxes in general c) Evan is claiming that these hides are very common based on very limited experience.

 

Not sure how you can put us on the same page.

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I'm not too keen on urban hides. Some of them have been OK but many are in areas with sensitive flower beds and landscaping nearby that does sometimes show signs of having had a thorough search done there.

There was one that I had waited quite some time to do just because I liked the area but wasn't there real often. It was hidden on the side of the library in a small sized metal box (with a screw on lid) attached to the rear of the real electrical box with magnets. The hint indicated that the needed tool (a screwdriver) was nearby.

There was indeed a short screwdriver sitting on top of the electrical box. But unless you stepped onto the landscaping and looked behind the box, you wouldn't see the cache. I found it, but was sorely tempted to use the supplied screwdriver to open up a couple of the covers, thinking that they left the screwdriver there for that purpose. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to think this from looking at the area. I fought the urge to use the screwdriver right away and eventually located the cache behind the box and realized why the screwdriver was there, to get the lid off the cache.

The cache was archived about 3 months after I found it with a note on the cache page from the library personnel saying to ask permission next time before hiding a cache on their grounds. So not only did it have logistical issues, it apparently did not have permission, either.

Link to comment

 

Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

Based on my two months of geocaching experience, it is my opinion that electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

 

I fixed this for you Evan

I wasn't going to post in this thread because it seems pointless to have the same discussions over and over. However, I could not resist pointing out the fact that you guys are on the same side of this issue. I don't know why you are bothering to argue with one another.

 

You certainly have a way of making a thread more valuable to the reader.

 

My point was a) Knowschad was talking about caches that require tools to open :D Evan thought he was talking about electric boxes in general c) Evan is claiming that these hides are very common based on very limited experience.

 

Not sure how you can put us on the same page.

Perhaps it is becasue, to the casual reader, you are all arguing that 'Those caches that I don't like are the debbil'.
Link to comment

 

Other than #9 that list isn't all that unusual, and I have questions about #9.

 

Based on my two months of geocaching experience, it is my opinion that electrical hides aren't all that unusual either.

 

The question was not whether there are a lot of better, more unusual hides but simply whether there were many alternatives.

 

I fixed this for you Evan

I wasn't going to post in this thread because it seems pointless to have the same discussions over and over. However, I could not resist pointing out the fact that you guys are on the same side of this issue. I don't know why you are bothering to argue with one another.

 

You certainly have a way of making a thread more valuable to the reader.

 

My point was a) Knowschad was talking about caches that require tools to open :D Evan thought he was talking about electric boxes in general c) Evan is claiming that these hides are very common based on very limited experience.

 

Not sure how you can put us on the same page.

Perhaps it is becasue, to the casual reader, you are all arguing that 'Those caches that I don't like are the debbil'.

 

Congrats. Two posts and you are back on ignore. I hope you enjoyed our time together as much as I did.

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I'm not too keen on urban hides. Some of them have been OK but many are in areas with sensitive flower beds and landscaping nearby that does sometimes show signs of having had a thorough search done there.

There was one that I had waited quite some time to do just because I liked the area but wasn't there real often. It was hidden on the side of the library in a small sized metal box (with a screw on lid) attached to the rear of the real electrical box with magnets. The hint indicated that the needed tool (a screwdriver) was nearby.

There was indeed a short screwdriver sitting on top of the electrical box. But unless you stepped onto the landscaping and looked behind the box, you wouldn't see the cache. I found it, but was sorely tempted to use the supplied screwdriver to open up a couple of the covers, thinking that they left the screwdriver there for that purpose. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to think this from looking at the area. I fought the urge to use the screwdriver right away and eventually located the cache behind the box and realized why the screwdriver was there, to get the lid off the cache.

The cache was archived about 3 months after I found it with a note on the cache page from the library personnel saying to ask permission next time before hiding a cache on their grounds. So not only did it have logistical issues, it apparently did not have permission, either.

 

This is a pretty good example of the hider not thinking things through very well. All you would really need to do to discern that this hide is going to be a problem is to take the screw driver in your hand and pretend you don't know where the cache is. Look around the area in a 15-20' circle (average GPS accuracy in an urban environment) and consider what a person might do with that screw driver before finding your cache. I'm surprised it lasted 3 months.

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