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midnightfaerie

Playground Attribute - Yeah or Nay?

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I have often searched for "kid friendly" caches and then read the description looking to see if it has a playground. I have a 2 -yr old son who loves playgrounds and this way we both can have fun. I've noticed that just because it says kid friendly doesn't mean it has a playground. When reading the forums, I saw the other side of this...

 

There are some people who hate caches on or near playgrounds. In the interest of all, I think it would be great to have an attribute devoted specifically to this for lovers and haters of playgrounds alike. I realize there are other ways to search for playgrounds (satelitte views, etc), but this would make it much easier.

 

I wrote "the powers that be" here on geocaching.com, and they told me to post a thread and see what the consensus is, and they would keep an eye on it.

 

So, yeah or nay?

Edited by midnightfaerie

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I have often searched for "kid friendly" caches and then read the description looking to see if it has a playground. I have a 2 -yr old son who loves playgrounds and this way we both can have fun. I've noticed that just because it says kid friendly doesn't mean it has a playground. When reading the forums, I saw the other side of this...

 

There are some people who hate caches on or near playgrounds. In the interest of all, I think it would be great to have an attribute devoted specifically to this for lovers and haters of playgrounds alike. I realize there are other ways to search for playgrounds (satelitte views, etc), but this would make it much easier.

 

I wrote "the powers that be" here on geocaching.com, and they told me to post a thread and see what the consensus is, and they would keep an eye on it.

 

So, yeah or nay?

 

yeah , I have a 7 month old baby , and I have friends with family from 2 to 8 years old. And I show them what geocaches is all about and then we get to a playground or picnic area.

 

Usually I spend too much time on google earth trying to identify playgrounds. This would be helpfull for this type of cache. YEAH !!! playground attribute !!

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I have a 4 yr old who loves it when we cache by a playground. It'd be nice to know in advance because we could plan our lunch stop at that cache if we have a full day planned! We do look for playgrounds in the description or on the maps but it would be very convenient to be able to filter for it! Cool idea.

 

I can also see the flip side of it where the people who don't like playground caches could filter them out for "off-peak" times or not do them at all.

 

Again, great idea. Thanks for bringing it up!

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I have often searched for "kid friendly" caches and then read the description looking to see if it has a playground. I have a 2 -yr old son who loves playgrounds and this way we both can have fun. I've noticed that just because it says kid friendly doesn't mean it has a playground. When reading the forums, I saw the other side of this......So, yeah or nay?

 

Sure. I can see how this attribute would be useful to folks in your shoes.

 

While I don't like a cache in the playground, I don't mind them on the larger grounds at all. Whenever I'd bring my family cache hunting the kids made a beeline to the play equipment and we found the cache, then joined the kids. Now my kids don't care so much about caching in general though they do visit the playground across the street.

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I have often searched for "kid friendly" caches and then read the description looking to see if it has a playground. I have a 2 -yr old son who loves playgrounds and this way we both can have fun. I've noticed that just because it says kid friendly doesn't mean it has a playground. When reading the forums, I saw the other side of this...

 

There are some people who hate caches on or near playgrounds. In the interest of all, I think it would be great to have an attribute devoted specifically to this for lovers and haters of playgrounds alike. I realize there are other ways to search for playgrounds (satelitte views, etc), but this would make it much easier.

 

I wrote "the powers that be" here on geocaching.com, and they told me to post a thread and see what the consensus is, and they would keep an eye on it.

 

So, yeah or nay?

 

I live in the suburbs and there are a lot of playgrounds near and far. Most parks appear in the NUVI maps also. So I do not think good playgrounds are hard to find. With a Nuvi, Oregon, and Colorada, etc., the paperless caching features will place a geocache icon on your map also, so you can see the ones in parks also.

 

On the subject of geocaches though, the geocaching community is not that well known yet, hence a lot of muggles are around. When a cache is at a playground and an adult cacher is going through the playground and or the play equipment, a lot of muggles parents will give a very suspicious look to the cacher.

 

I personally dislike geocaches hidden in playgrounds becasue then you have to wait for the muggles to leave and kills the joy of just grabbing and signing.

 

Since you are a parent with small ones, you might get wary if unknown strangers lurk near the playgrounds. As you know there is already an issue with safety at urban playgrounds (such are unseemly paraphernalia being found in play areas).

 

But, to answer your question for the poll, I say No, because it is unnecessary. Another thing to download into the GPSr unit will use up more flash memory (storage space). I typically download 4-500 POIs to my units.

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Which exactly were you thinking for the text with the attribute?

 

Playground nearby? or Cache on Playgrond equipment?

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I vote a resounding yea - in New York City, it's illegal to be in a playground without a child so that would save people grief as I'm sure NYC isn't the only place to have that law. Further, I avoid playgrounds like the plague not because I hate kids (I have a 3 year old daughter) but because why make people uncomfortable.

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...in New York City, it's illegal to be in a playground without a child...

 

That has got to be one of the dumbest....

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...in New York City, it's illegal to be in a playground without a child...

 

That has got to be one of the dumbest....

 

I understand it

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...in New York City, it's illegal to be in a playground without a child...

 

That has got to be one of the dumbest....

 

I understand it

 

No. In many cases it is extremely dumb! NYC parks are where you find the convenient rest rooms! Samuel Seabury Playground (formerly Samuel Seabury Park) is near the East 96th Street subway stop. Same restroom as in most NYC parks. Very convenient location! Almost the same park as it used to be before reconstruction. But, now the sign says "No adults, unless accompanied by children." Fortunately, at this playground, this bizarre rule has never been enforced!!!

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...in New York City, it's illegal to be in a playground without a child...

 

That has got to be one of the dumbest....

 

I understand it

 

I understand it too. My situation goes one step further. I drive a candy van for work, and when I'm caching during my route, people really give me strange looks when I, an adult male, pull up to a playground and get out looking around.

 

FYI, I support the playground attribute. Any and all pertinent information is good.

Edited by CanDMan47

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color me confused. Should public spaces be 'public' and not require a special membership. i don't live in NYC and would not endorse taking parks away from whole public but I doin't live i a 'real' city and all our playgrounds are in parks.

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I'm 21 and love swings. I would have a fit about that rule.

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I have often searched for "kid friendly" caches and then read the description looking to see if it has a playground. I have a 2 -yr old son who loves playgrounds and this way we both can have fun. I've noticed that just because it says kid friendly doesn't mean it has a playground. When reading the forums, I saw the other side of this...

 

There are some people who hate caches on or near playgrounds. In the interest of all, I think it would be great to have an attribute devoted specifically to this for lovers and haters of playgrounds alike. I realize there are other ways to search for playgrounds (satelitte views, etc), but this would make it much easier.

 

I wrote "the powers that be" here on geocaching.com, and they told me to post a thread and see what the consensus is, and they would keep an eye on it.

 

So, yeah or nay?

 

Nay.

 

I think that the attribute listings are voluntary and at best you should assume kid friendly is completely subjective.

 

I think you should plan on taking your kid to a playground and once there see if there are any caches nearby that are worth trying for, with your kid.

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I don't like caches in or near playgrounds - mostly because I don't want to spend a lot of time explaining myself to the authorities and/or parents about why I'm hanging around in playgrounds... Color me YES so that I can filter them out.

 

About NYC - I have no problem with that. There are plenty of public areas in a park that are not related to playground equipment for minors that adults can enjoy. I'm sure that the city council felt that child safety was a valid enough concern that a slight restriction of access was needed. Frankly, adults with no kids have no business being in a playground with children present in ANY city/town, and New York just happens to be the biggest one we have. This is an era in which kids are a a lot less safe than they were 20-30-40 years ago in public areas. That said, the restrictions should not encompass an entire park.

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It is funny how some responses assume EVERY cacher has the same capabilities/gear/equipment! So very not true!

 

Quote button is not working so plse bear with me:

 

For example "I think you should plan on taking your kid to a playground and once there see if there are any caches nearby that are worth trying for, with your kid."

 

I have a basic magellan...an old model. I cannot search for caches that way. I must know where I am going before I leave the house.

 

Another example "I live in the suburbs and there are a lot of playgrounds near and far. Most parks appear in the NUVI maps also. So I do not think good playgrounds are hard to find. With a Nuvi, Oregon, and Colorada, etc., the paperless caching features will place a geocache icon on your map also, so you can see the ones in parks also."

 

Um...I don't have nuvi. I don't have Oregon or Colorada...don't even know what those two things ARE.

 

I cache with small kids so I like the attributes to be as plain and exacting as possilbe. But I realize I am new to the sport and am willing to adjust my expectations rather than to expect the sport to change parameters to suit my situation in life (mother caching with small children).

 

Since I have learned the hard way about the afore mentioned "subjectivity", of terms such as "grab and go" and "kid friendly", I am leaving very detailed descriptions in my log if I think they are helpful to other cachers with kids.

 

I think that is really the way to go...kind of get all the parents doing that sort of thing. That way the sport does not have to change and parents will be better informed.

 

Win/win IMHO

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We do cache around playgrounds, but try to do so when the children won't be there. I love swings and slides - but experience has shown, that though I may be a kid at heart, my butt isn't! I am in favour of them, especially for our caching families, but can see both sides of the coin.

A school near us has a cache on the perimeter of the large playing field...accessible from the trail, a quick grab, and the kids sometimes get to see cachers if they are not paying attention in class! It is "their" cache and the teacher who placed it had permission from the school. Good to know that the geocaching idea has been planted in the young ones.

I, too, would like to see the playground caches have a designation so we can filter them out if caching during the hours in which they will be occupied.

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I vote Yeah.

My kids are older now, don't use the playgrounds so much anymore...

It would be nice to be able to plan apropriate times to hunt these types of caches. (Sometimes when loading PQ's, I don't read every cache description, so an attribute as a filter would be nice)

There have been a few times where I pulled up near GZ, saw kids everywhere, and didn't even bother to search.

 

As for NY parks law...I can understand that in play areas designed for children...this world has gotten too scary in the last 20 years, and any law that tries to protect children is a good law IMO.

 

~Jenni

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sure, why not?

 

attributes are optional. more available choices wouldn't be a bad thing.

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I vote yes. Make it an attribute that defines a cache as on or within 300 feet of playground equipment.

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This would be very helpful on alot of levels. I dont want to go to a area on a power run in July only to find several on on a playground while kids are enjoying them. I may make someone weary of what im doing there, and we all know thats the last thing we want. If we are planning to be in the area again sometime while school in in session, we could use these icons to help with that also by saving them till that run.

 

Now I live in a VERY small town and surrounding area, I think our total population for the COUNTY is less than 25,000 people. That Icon would not serve me as well since I live here and can tell by the map where it is, but others cant when they visit this area.

 

Im all for it!!!!!

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I can echo what everyone else has said and agree that it would be a good idea. My 4 year old is getting sick of us finding micros (no "treasure") in parks without playgrounds! It would be nice to know when browsing caches...

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Since I cache with 3 kids I appreciate any type of kid friendly cache, whether it be a larger container with good swag, easy to reach the cache site or simply not dangerous for children. Playgrounds nearby are like a super bonus. If there was a playground attribute, those cashes would definitely be at the top of our list. I think it would make a great feature.

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Yes, I'm surprised it isn't already there. There are attributes for bikes, pets, ticks and poison ivy. It makes sense to add one for playgrounds.

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I also vote for the playground attribute!!

 

Great way for people with little ones to do a few caches and hit the swings and slides.

 

Also a great way for the rest of us to filter them out.

 

If you want to place them , fine, but I (and many others it appears) have no interest in hunting them, just for the type of stealth involved.

 

Public is public, but parents should be able to take their kids out and play without having to keep an eye on one of us looking like a pedophile, while we're thinking we're being 'stealthy' and blending in like a ninja.

 

Some people love them (those with little kids) and some hate them (me)

 

So yes, great idea!!

 

The ones that like them can filter for them and the rest of us can filter them out.

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It is funny how some responses assume EVERY cacher has the same capabilities/gear/equipment! So very not true!

 

No, that's not what I mean at all. I think there should be a very defined line between giving cachers details about types of caches and simply going caching. Large majority preference is perfectly fine. At the same time I don't think everything about a cache should be handed to me.

 

If you are looking to cache with your kids does it have to be a playground? Are the majority simply looking for a way to exclude them? What's the driver here?

 

Take you kids to the playground and see if there a cache nearby worth trying for. Even if that's means you need to download cache data ahead of time.

 

Kid friendly should be enough information.

Edited by BlueDeuce

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Frankly, adults with no kids have no business being in a playground with children present in ANY city/town, and New York just happens to be the biggest one we have.

I completely disagree with that statement. Why specify a playground? Why not any location that tends to have a larger amount of kids? A law could say adults with no kids are not allowed in toy stores, or in the video game section of Wal-Mart. If kids are in a playground they are probably with an adult, who should supervise that child.

 

We should not have laws that decide who can be where. Such laws are no different than racial profiling to decide who has business in a particular neighborhood.

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another thing is where is the line of playground area.. Our park has a playground, baseball diamond, pool huge open space. Where is the none child attached adults suppose to stay out of ? In the main part of town there are a few small parks with a big play area and a few benches and trees. So people can go into these parks to sitdown an read a book and eat lunch?

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Playground Attribute - Yeah or Nay?

Nay.

 

I understand the reasoning behind wanting the attribute, but if 1 new attribute is added... many more are then going to be requested. Where will it stop? Attributes for in the woods, city caches, parking lot caches, residence caches, etc... the list goes on.

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I think it's a great idea! Attributes are very helpful and since playground caches are a source of problems for some, and desired for others, it would be great to be able to filter.

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As the father of three, one 7 years old and two who are almost three, it is important for us to be able to plan our caching day so that we hit at least one park with a playground. Caches need not, and should not, be placed near playgrounds but it is nice to know there is one there.

 

On a side note, I also manage a nature center and I feel that getting kids out caching is a major benifit! So, if listing a playground will serve as an incentive to get more people outdoors, it needs to be done.

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As the father of three, one 7 years old and two who are almost three, it is important for us to be able to plan our caching day so that we hit at least one park with a playground. Caches need not, and should not, be placed near playgrounds but it is nice to know there is one in the area.

 

On a side note, I manage a nature center and I feel that getting kids out caching is a major benifit! So, if listing a playground will serve as an incentive to get more people outdoors, it needs to be done.

 

In response to the comment about too many attributes, I rely heavily on them and have found that the additional information has provided far more positive experiences than negative. This is a "family friendly" sport, words often mentioned by Groundspeak, and as a family it is nice to konw what we are getting into when seekin a cache.

 

In other words, if some is good - more is better.

Edited by Three Monkies Ranch

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If the attribute would add to the game then sure. It would have no affect on the way I play.

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I would have to vote Yeah for this one...I don't have any kids...so I like to hit playgrounds at certain times when the likelihood of a playground being busy is rare.

 

But at the same time...I really don't care, I have yet to come across a cache that actually has me walk directly into the playground...most in my area seem to be a good distance away. I usually judge my attempting to find them on how likely someone will see/care what I am doing, as I don't want to risk the cache being muggled(and there is an attribute for that).

Edited by rdfirebrd

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Nay.

 

What's next? Pine tree attribute? Tree-climbing attribute? Motor boat attribute? Disc golf attribute?

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I'm not clear whether the suggestion is for an attribute that says

 

A. There is a children's playground near this cache site (say, within 100 yards)

 

or

 

B. This cache is hidden within the actual playground area (say, within 20 yards of the equipment or even on the equipment.

 

If it's option A then I'd say "Yes, I suppose some would find that useful".

 

If it's option B I'd say ... well, I just don't think they should be there anyway.

 

<Brit viewpoint> I'm pretty sure that caches on playground equipment, or very close to a children's playground, wouldn't get published over here. </Brit viewpoint>

 

MrsB

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Not a getting started issue. The getting started forum is for those who are new to geocaching who have questions.

 

Being a website issue this should be posted in the geocaching.com forum. Moving there.

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NAY VOTE. Look at a map before you leave and there is no reason that adults can not be on a playground without kids and, as and adult and parent, would resent having to explain why I was there. Period.

 

If more choices are never a bad thing (mentioned earlier), I want a pine tree attribute, those hides make me uncomfortable. A LPC attribute, they are almost always around muggles and never done with permission. A Krispy Kreme or Denny's attribute to avoid the uncomfortable confrontation with law enforcement. A convenient store attribute, so we all know AA and AAA batteries are near by. A landmark attribute so those of us interested in history can find them easier.

 

Where is the line drawn? Too many make them more worthless than they appear to be now.

Edited by baloo&bd

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Where is the line drawn? Too many make them more worthless than they appear to be now.

 

Which is why they asked for a poll to be taken, to determine if the majority of people would find this attribute useful. I'm guessing if there were a poll for a Denny's attribute most would say, "no thanks".

 

That's just a guess of course. :P

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Where is the line drawn? Too many make them more worthless than they appear to be now.

 

Which is why they asked for a poll to be taken, to determine if the majority of people would find this attribute useful. I'm guessing if there were a poll for a Denny's attribute most would say, "no thanks".

 

That's just a guess of course. :P

 

Needing to get that post count up? Please read the reply before commenting on it.

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As for NY parks law...I can understand that in play areas designed for children...this world has gotten too scary in the last 20 years, and any law that tries to protect children is a good law IMO.

Because all unaccompanied adult men are pedophiles. That's the scare tactic behind these laws.

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Where is the line drawn? Too many make them more worthless than they appear to be now.

 

Which is why they asked for a poll to be taken, to determine if the majority of people would find this attribute useful. I'm guessing if there were a poll for a Denny's attribute most would say, "no thanks".

 

That's just a guess of course. :P

 

Needing to get that post count up? Please read the reply before commenting on it.

 

I guess I need you to draw me a picture, I read the reply. How was what I said not appropriate to the reply? And no, I am not looking to get my post count up, not sure why that would matter? You asked where the line was drawn, my reply was meant to say that the line is drawn where the majority sees fit. Which is why the administrators told the OP to place the subject on the forums.

 

Obviously you've been here a lot longer than I have. You asked a question, perhaps it was meant to be rhetorical, I gave you my opinion on the question that was asked. I'm still not sure why you thought I didn't read the reply before I commented. :)

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A little true story to underscore why some of us don't like caches on or in close proximity to playground equipment.

 

A young, unmarried father of two the my niece has been seeing took his boys to a local playground. He sat on a bench watching them play with a group of other children. He was there for about two hours when a woman from across the street came tearing over to him with police officer in tow screaming "That's him! That's the pervert! He's been here all day watching the little boys!" Took him an hour of having his life story checked out before they would even let him tell his boys everything was going to be ok. I told him to get a lawyer but he just wants to forget it ever happened.

 

If that can happen to a father with kids in tow what is gonna happen when I show up with my pack full of cheap caching swag and a bunch of electronic devices including a GPS and digital camera? And don't tell me to check a dadgum map before I go because playground equipment is not always shown. It often isn't discernible on a sat. image.

 

I reiterate my vote for adding the attribute.

 

Edit to add-Before anyone says it, if we pull up to a park and the needle points anywhere near the play area we leave.

Edited by GOF & Bacall

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A little true story to underscore why some of us don't like caches on or in close proximity to playground equipment.

 

A young, unmarried father of two the my niece has been seeing took his boys to a local playground. He sat on a bench watching them play with a group of other children. He was there for about two hours when a woman from across the street came tearing over to him with police officer in tow screaming "That's him! That's the pervert! He's been here all day watching the little boys!" Took him an hour of having his life story checked out before they would even let him tell his boys everything was going to be ok. I told him to get a lawyer but he just wants to forget it ever happened.

 

If that can happen to a father with kids in tow what is gonna happen when I show up with my pack full of cheap caching swag and a bunch of electronic devices including a GPS and digital camera? And don't tell me to check a dadgum map before I go because playground equipment is not always shown. It often isn't discernible on a sat. image.

 

I reiterate my vote for adding the attribute.

 

Edit to add-Before anyone says it, if we pull up to a park and the needle points anywhere near the play area we leave.

 

Not to get to far OT, actually I don't think it is at all, however you list two problems there. One, he was hassled. With or without kids, without cause there is no reason for them to have any discussion with him other than to ask what he is doing and maybe for an ID and then only to calm down the lady who left here tin foil hat back on the porch.

 

The other problem is he won't do anything about it. If I was to sit on a bench at Buckingham fountain in Chicago or the park you are talking about, there is no difference. Both are there for my enjoyment. Alternately, if I am allowed to place a cache in a FP, or along a hiking trail, I am allowed to do it in a public park with a playground. Both are the same, no difference beyond the fact that my cache may be muggled more often in the later. What about dog parks, should they be off limits for people that like to watch dogs because we obviously are there to get animals for dog fighting. Just as ridiculous.

 

With kids "in tow" you cooperate as much as possible, then do something after they are gone. Choosing not to do anything about it, even something as simple as a complaint with the department the officers are from is why these nonsense laws with little to no logic supporting them come about in the first place and is could be consider by some as irresponsible.

 

Not that it should matter, however before anyone asks; Three kids, one now in his early 20's, the other two teens. When we took them to the parks, etc. we took responsibility for are own kids and did not depend on foolish laws to do so.

 

Again, no to the attribute for this and the previous reasons mentioned.

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Edit to add-Before anyone says it, if we pull up to a park and the needle points anywhere near the play area we leave.

 

See now this was why I was asking what's the driver here. The OP was looking for caches near equipment and you're looking to avoid.

 

Most attributes are for the general area not the cache type - Is there parking, are there bathrooms. Most of the non-forum reading cache owners are going to say 'Yeah, there's playground equipment!' Are you going to be able to have them use it for proximity? Tons of caches are in parks, tons of parks have playground equipment. How close do the cache and equipment have to be to be able to use the new attribute?

 

It's not going to give you what you want to know and I still don't see how hard it would be find a park to take your kids to play and at the same find time a nearby cache.

Edited by BlueDeuce

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A little true story to underscore why some of us don't like caches on or in close proximity to playground equipment.

 

A young, unmarried father of two the my niece has been seeing took his boys to a local playground. He sat on a bench watching them play with a group of other children. He was there for about two hours when a woman from across the street came tearing over to him with police officer in tow screaming "That's him! That's the pervert! He's been here all day watching the little boys!" Took him an hour of having his life story checked out before they would even let him tell his boys everything was going to be ok. I told him to get a lawyer but he just wants to forget it ever happened.

 

If that can happen to a father with kids in tow what is gonna happen when I show up with my pack full of cheap caching swag and a bunch of electronic devices including a GPS and digital camera? And don't tell me to check a dadgum map before I go because playground equipment is not always shown. It often isn't discernible on a sat. image.

 

I reiterate my vote for adding the attribute.

 

Edit to add-Before anyone says it, if we pull up to a park and the needle points anywhere near the play area we leave.

 

Not to get to far OT, actually I don't think it is at all, however you list two problems there. One, he was hassled. With or without kids, without cause there is no reason for them to have any discussion with him other than to ask what he is doing and maybe for an ID and then only to calm down the lady who left here tin foil hat back on the porch.

 

The other problem is he won't do anything about it. If I was to sit on a bench at Buckingham fountain in Chicago or the park you are talking about, there is no difference. Both are there for my enjoyment. Alternately, if I am allowed to place a cache in a FP, or along a hiking trail, I am allowed to do it in a public park with a playground. Both are the same, no difference beyond the fact that my cache may be muggled more often in the later. What about dog parks, should they be off limits for people that like to watch dogs because we obviously are there to get animals for dog fighting. Just as ridiculous.

 

With kids "in tow" you cooperate as much as possible, then do something after they are gone. Choosing not to do anything about it, even something as simple as a complaint with the department the officers are from is why these nonsense laws with little to no logic supporting them come about in the first place and is could be consider by some as irresponsible.

 

Not that it should matter, however before anyone asks; Three kids, one now in his early 20's, the other two teens. When we took them to the parks, etc. we took responsibility for are own kids and did not depend on foolish laws to do so.

 

Again, no to the attribute for this and the previous reasons mentioned.

 

Agreed on the young mans response. A couple of simple questions should have cleared it up. When it took as long as it did the minimum response should have been a complaint. There is no excuse for that kind of treatment, period.

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Edit to add-Before anyone says it, if we pull up to a park and the needle points anywhere near the play area we leave.

 

See now this was why I was asking what's the driver here. The OP was looking for caches near equipment and you're looking to avoid.

 

Most attributes are for the general area not the cache type - Is there parking, are there bathrooms. Most of the non-forum reading cache owners are going to say 'Yeah, there's playground equipment!' Are you going to be able to have them use it for proximity? Tons of caches are in parks, tons of parks have playground equipment. How close do the cache and equipment have to be to be able to use the new attribute?

 

It's not going to give you what you want to know and I still don't see how hard it would be find a park to take your kids to play and at the same find time a nearby cache.

 

From my point of view it is a plus for both those who want to cache at a playground and those of us who don't. A simple choice of is or is not 300 feet from playground equipment would give us the idea of weather or not it was for us. The effectiveness is limited by CO usage, but that is no different than the rest of the attributes.

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From my point of view it is a plus for both those who want to cache at a playground and those of us who don't. A simple choice of is or is not 300 feet from playground equipment would give us the idea of weather or not it was for us. The effectiveness is limited by CO usage, but that is no different than the rest of the attributes.

 

True.

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