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GE KML Redesign

OpinioNate

By OpinioNate
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Raine

+Raine

Posted
Posted

It seems like some are actually using a demo of the new kml. Is that the case? If so, where can one find this demo?

 

We're leaving for Yellowstone Friday. If there isn't a demo of the kml, is there any chance one could be posted in the relatively near future? :unsure:

 

Thanks!

 

I'm very sorry, but you'll have to wait until next week to try out the new version. I hope you have a nice trip!

Nate, that's mighty kind of you to wish us well. I found a "workaround" in using the internal maps to geocaching.com. semi-similar, just a little more cumbersome.

 

looking forward to the new kml next week! or whenever. :P

 

I'm interested in knowing what "work around" you used since the KML is just a view of cache icons on a map and the Google maps implementation is the exact same thing concept but with more features?

 

-Raine

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tozainamboku

+tozainamboku

Posted
Posted

Nate, that's mighty kind of you to wish us well. I found a "workaround" in using the internal maps to geocaching.com. semi-similar, just a little more cumbersome.

 

looking forward to the new kml next week! or whenever. :P

 

I'm interested in knowing what "work around" you used since the KML is just a view of cache icons on a map and the Google maps implementation is the exact same thing concept but with more features?

 

-Raine

Raine

 

I think it is clear that while you can find caches using Google maps and which clearly has features that most geocachers would find more useful (accurate coordinates, ability to hide finds and owned caches (PMO), ability to filter by type (PMO)) there were about 200 people who found the Google Earth KML superior. They found it easier to pan and zoom without having Javascript stop responding while parsing geocaches. They found the GE GUI for panning and zoom and perhaps even flying to an address easier than the Google maps GUI. They liked the 3D view. They liked being able to combine various other GE earth overlays with the geocaches to see which caches were in which county or near a trail. They preferred the way the GE KML handled it when you zoomed out to where there were mored than 200 caches and they got a sample of the caches instead of a message saying "Adjust your zoom level to see caches". Why not just work on restoring some capability for these people instead of questioning why they felt the "better" way was a workaround.

 

If you are asking this question to find out what specific GE features the poster had to "workaround" so you know what you need to restore, I apologize. It has been somewhat difficult in this process to find out exactly what some people missed when the KML was taken away other than they had to do it differently then what they were used to. Perhaps Raine would appreciate some input about what specific features of the KML are most required so he doesn't spend time putting in something that only 84 people regularly use :unsure:

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gof1

+gof1

Posted
Posted

Nate, that's mighty kind of you to wish us well. I found a "workaround" in using the internal maps to geocaching.com. semi-similar, just a little more cumbersome.

 

looking forward to the new kml next week! or whenever. :P

 

I'm interested in knowing what "work around" you used since the KML is just a view of cache icons on a map and the Google maps implementation is the exact same thing concept but with more features?

 

-Raine

Raine

 

I think it is clear that while you can find caches using Google maps and which clearly has features that most geocachers would find more useful (accurate coordinates, ability to hide finds and owned caches (PMO), ability to filter by type (PMO)) there were about 200 people who found the Google Earth KML superior. They found it easier to pan and zoom without having Javascript stop responding while parsing geocaches. They found the GE GUI for panning and zoom and perhaps even flying to an address easier than the Google maps GUI. They liked the 3D view. They liked being able to combine various other GE earth overlays with the geocaches to see which caches were in which county or near a trail. They preferred the way the GE KML handled it when you zoomed out to where there were mored than 200 caches and they got a sample of the caches instead of a message saying "Adjust your zoom level to see caches". Why not just work on restoring some capability for these people instead of questioning why they felt the "better" way was a workaround.

 

If you are asking this question to find out what specific GE features the poster had to "workaround" so you know what you need to restore, I apologize. It has been somewhat difficult in this process to find out exactly what some people missed when the KML was taken away other than they had to do it differently then what they were used to. Perhaps Raine would appreciate some input about what specific features of the KML are most required so he doesn't spend time putting in something that only 84 people regularly use :unsure:

 

Your list is quite good. GE has more information on everything but the caches. If I needed specifics about a cache there was always the cache page.

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No H

No H

Posted
Posted

One thing that would help immensely would be to set the idle time before refresh.

The GE KML was setup to refresh immediately after a mouse movement.

I set mine up to wait 20 seconds after the mouse stopped moving before it drew data.

This allow the map tiles to fill in and me to move the mouse to where I wanted it before the query was even ran.

Even setting this to 5 seconds would reduce the number of multiple draws on the same area.

 

Thanks for bringing this back.

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Raine

+Raine

Posted
Posted
Why not just work on restoring some capability for these people instead of questioning why they felt the "better" way was a workaround.

 

Considering the topic of this thread in the first place, I'm amazed at this statement.

 

The poster of whom my question was to decided to use quotes to emphasize displeasure and I'm well versed in sarcasm so I got the meaning rather quickly. But I was curious as to what workaround they did to make GM almost equal to GE.

 

Also, the way GE handled the zoom as apposed to the GM maps way was part of the problem of it's performance.

 

-Raine

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JustWannaCache

JustWannaCache

Posted
Posted
One concession is that there will be reduced number of refreshes allowed per day for Basic and Premium members (More for PMs than Basics of course).

Technical question, since I'm curious: How can the add-in know whether you're a PM, a regular member, or just somebody off the street? (Even a complete non-member could get the KML file from somebody who is.)

 

For normal web surfing, your browser stores the login cookie, and AFAIK GE has no connection to any browser on your system ...does it?

 

Those old assumptions that "Everybody has Internet Explorer" don't work these days, not even on Windows. I run GE and Firefox on Linux, and I'm pretty sure the GE installation has no knowledge that I have or use Firefox.

 

So how would it know I'm a premium member? Would it ask for login separately inside GE?

 

The link to download the KML is encrypted with your username. It can technically be shared amongst users, but they will all make withdrawals from the views "bank" for that particular KML. The more people who use it, the more useless it would become.

Would sharing the KML file be a violation of the TOS just like sharing pocket queries is?

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Master_Dirt

+Master_Dirt

Posted
Posted

I came to the forums tonight to see the most recent pages of the Mother of all KML issues, had yet brought about any positive responses from TPTB. My premium membership is due to expire on the 26th I was looking for a reason why I should renew it; the loss of the KML tool was, and is, a major issue with me.

 

Thanks to the powers that be for addressing this issue and working for a quick and usable alternative and to all of those members who participated in this forum with the same goal(s) of resolving service issues.

 

I see this a couple of ways, the service wouldn't be here without the customer base to support it and, the customer wouldn't be here were it not for the service; both are imperatives.

 

I will live without the premium membership for a few days, until the KML 2.2 tool is released then I'll decide.

 

Awe the power of the pen!

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GOF and Bacall

GOF and Bacall

Posted
Posted

Would sharing the KML file be a violation of the TOS just like sharing pocket queries is?

No, I wouldn't think so. It's not a file of cache data.

But it will still be a "premium feature" at least to some degree.

 

The link to download the KML is encrypted with your username. It can technically be shared amongst users, but they will all make withdrawals from the views "bank" for that particular KML. The more people who use it, the more useless it would become.

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mtn-man

+mtn-man

Posted
Posted

The "I'm one of 200" line will probably go down in history just like "Why does my post say Ringbone?". When you can tell someone has not actually read a topic before commenting on it, you can ask them "were you one of the 200?".

 

;):ph34r::cool::drama:

A mod stirring the pot. GOtta love that!!

"I accept your apology."

 

:):laughing::laughing::D

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tozainamboku

+tozainamboku

Posted
Posted

The "I'm one of 200" line will probably go down in history just like "Why does my post say Ringbone?". When you can tell someone has not actually read a topic before commenting on it, you can ask them "were you one of the 200?".

 

;):ph34r::cool::drama:

A mod stirring the pot. GOtta love that!!

"I accept your apology."

 

:):laughing::laughing::D

I nearly responded to mtn-man's post as well but instead went after Raine for asking about "work arounds". I actually felt bad about that and even apologized in that post as I realized that Raine may have had a legitimate reason for asking his question.

 

My take on the people who wrote "I am one of the 200" is not that they didn't read the original post. They may not have. But until Raine provided a different explanation, the 200 were those that "regularly accessed this feature". Nate did not define what regularly meant, so anyone who used the feature more than once could conceivably interpret their use as regular. Sure, after Raine described where the number 200 came from, few people could legitimately claim to be be one of the 200. But by then the phrase "I am one of the 200" was more like "I am Spartacus" than "Why does my post say Ringbone?". It had become a rallying cry of solidarity among those who felt they had lost a useful feature.

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mtn-man

+mtn-man

Posted
Posted
But by then the phrase "I am one of the 200" was more like "I am Spartacus" than "Why does my post say Ringbone?". It had become a rallying cry of solidarity among those who felt they had lost a useful feature.

Not really. For the people who posted before Raine's explanation, I would buy that. After that, it was painfully obvious from their post they didn't actually read the whole topic. Really, I don't blame them. It was the same request over and over to bring it back (which was the right thing to do and it worked), but the pleas illustrated that they had not actually found and read the most important post in the monstrous topic. That is why I and a couple of others kept linking to it. The fact that it will probably be remembered with phrases like "Why does my post say Ringbone?" and "I accept your apology" and "Ticks are everywhere this year" and "GEOCACHING DOESN'T CARE ABOUT CHINLDREN" by forum regulars is just a quirk of being here for so long as a regular.

 

The ;) , :laughing: , :D and :cool: emoticons should let you know I am somewhat joking. When beejay&esskay used the quoted "200" bit, I had to laugh and post. Raine's response to them was a good one.

 

And besides, "I am Spartacus" also has another meaning within these forums too. :ph34r::)

 

Interesting side note... the image in the first post in this topic has changed from when the first post was written. I wonder how many have noticed that. Love seeing the additional information being added in. Thanks for updating that image a few days ago Nate.

 

3744330834_8393352be6_o.png

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2202

+2202

Posted
Posted

Viajero Perdido: A few of the changes "under the hood" are:

 

New KML rendering library.

SQL specific tweaks like CTE's, indexs with included columns.

And a few other things that we want to keep secret :D

 

-Raine

 

Without doubt, for me, the Google Earth feature was the one I used the most, a PQ only being used after a little research using GE. So it is heart warming news not only to hear that it is coming back, but further development is underway to refine it further. Never sit on your laurels!

 

So does that mean I can start planning where to go for my next holiday in September?

 

Cheers

Tony

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JustWannaCache

JustWannaCache

Posted
Posted

Would sharing the KML file be a violation of the TOS just like sharing pocket queries is?

No, I wouldn't think so. It's not a file of cache data.

But it will still be a "premium feature" at least to some degree.

 

The link to download the KML is encrypted with your username. It can technically be shared amongst users, but they will all make withdrawals from the views "bank" for that particular KML. The more people who use it, the more useless it would become.

I'm not really sure what your point was in putting these two posts together unless it was to counter my "it will still be a premium feature" which, in my mind, shouldn't be shared, with Nate's statement that "Technically, it can be shared among users."

 

I mean really, I guess that "technically" you can share pocket queries too, can't you? Maybe this deserves a thread of it's own, but I think it's a valid part of this convo.

 

To be blunt, is it permissible for a premium member to share their KML, and thus their refresh limit, with other, non-premium members?

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Lil Devil

+Lil Devil

Posted
Posted
The link to download the KML is encrypted with your username.

This part got me thinking. If the KML knows our username, then can you make it exclude our finds from the results, or at least show our finds with a different icon?

 

Thanks for all your hard work, Raine!

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JeremyR

+JeremyR

Posted
Posted
This part got me thinking. If the KML knows our username, then can you make it exclude our finds from the results, or at least show our finds with a different icon?

Thing is that from a database POV, that one addition to the query doubles the complexity of the search and the hit on the server. Limited server resources is what started this whole thing off...

 

I'll be very happy just to see it back again without any additional perks...

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the_buccaneers

the_buccaneers

Posted
Posted

I was very sorry to see the KML link to GE vanish. I used it as a matter of course to see what caches were in an area I was visiting, and to shortcut to getting cache details. It struck me from the start as the most natural way of locating caches in an area, and a brilliantly elegant step forward by/for the geocaching community/pastime. The corollary is that it's removal seemed a step backwards. Although there are other tools none seemed to me as simple and effective. Consequently I am very pleased and rather relieved to see that the code pixies at GC are moving forward again.

 

Many Thanks for recognising the natural harmony of the link between caching and mapping and taking advantage of their synergies.

 

I look forward eagerly to the launch day. :P

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Middleleaze Moles

+Middleleaze Moles

Posted
Posted

I will add my thanks too as I have really missed this feature, even though I have tried to use the PQ's instead. An example was just this weekend when we were travelling away. We like to do some caches along the route to break up the drive, but short of covering a massive area with a PQ, it was not easy to just look along the route and pick out likely stops. I am so grateful to be getting this back! :P

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GOF and Bacall

GOF and Bacall

Posted
Posted

The days not over yet, but so far I don't see the KML link. Anyone spot it? Any news on the issue?

 

I was surprised that it took as long as it did for someone to post this question. As I recall Nate said "next week". I don't recall him saying Tuesday of next week. Lots of time left in the week.

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boda

+boda

Posted
Posted

I was one of those who really missed the KML add on. I didn't post my displeasure in this thread because many folks expressed their concerns better than I could.

 

Now that it is back up, I would like to say thank you. I have already used it to good end. Although there are some good alternatives, I find them useful but more cumbersome.

 

Again, thanks for bringing it back. :D

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speakers-corner

+speakers-corner

Posted
Posted

In case you haven't found it yet, the new link to download GC's KML is on your My Profile page.

 

I know it will provide you with hours of enjoyment. I only hope that it does not crash th

 

Thanks OpinioNate, and a BIG THANK YOU to Raine for all the work he has put into getting this set up again for us, again THANK YOU. BTW just down loaded the file but havent tried it out yet.

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