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Who originally created the no burying rule?


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Hi Ya

 

Just was wondering who created the no burying rule. Have watched the youtube video with Dave Ulmer who planted the first Geocache and he actually buried it. So this must of been created afterwards by someone else. If you look in this video you will also see the dreaded spade being involved in retreiving the cache.

 

 

Claire xx

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Hi Ya

 

Just was wondering who created the no burying rule. Have watched the youtube video with Dave Ulmer who planted the first Geocache and he actually buried it. So this must of been created afterwards by someone else. If you look in this video you will also see the dreaded spade being involved in retreiving the cache.

 

 

Claire xx

 

He also broke another rule. He put food in the cache

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He also broke another rule. He put food in the cache

 

Canned food would not have been a problem though. Besides, there were no rules to be broken back then.

 

Wasn't that can of beans eventually sold on eBay?

The O.C.B is owned and in the hands of Team 360.

 

7b8b1214-9747-4506-abd2-8b3c31c6a858.jpg

 

The Ebay thing may have been more of a joke than anything else.

I saw the O.C.B 6 years ago at Saxmans first campout event.

Kinda <sniff> brings a <sniff-sniff> tear to my <sniff> eyes.

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But if he didnt make the rules. Who did? Groundspeak? I thought they would of been advised by him or kept the game pretty much in the same way that he intended it to be.

 

Claire xx

 

At the time Dave Ulmer placed his "stash", nobody had any idea that there would ever be another one. I don't know the history of the guidelines, but yes, I suspect that it was Groundspeak, after some land managers expressed imaginary concern about the possibility of brigades of shovel-bearing geocachers ascending on their parks.

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Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

Geocaching.com was set up in 2001 I belive and that guideline would have been drawn up in consultaion with the community in an effort to self police the hobby/ sport - which I would imagim being a lot easier certanly pre 2005 when there wern't so many of us.

 

I knew about geocaching since about 2002/ 2003 and just wish I could have afforded a GPS unit then, I feel like I have missed out on a lot. :anicute:

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He also broke another rule. He put food in the cache

 

Canned food would not have been a problem though. Besides, there were no rules to be broken back then.

 

Wasn't that can of beans eventually sold on eBay?

The O.C.B is owned and in the hands of Team 360.

 

7b8b1214-9747-4506-abd2-8b3c31c6a858.jpg

 

The Ebay thing may have been more of a joke than anything else.

I saw the O.C.B 6 years ago at Saxmans first campout event.

Kinda <sniff> brings a <sniff-sniff> tear to my <sniff> eyes.

 

Yes I belive it travels arround

 

But when is it going international?

 

You all know we overe here have a 'special relationship' with the US of A. :anicute:

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So it was originally about concerns over destruction of property? I can see the point there, theres a cache I know of close to a lamp post and the cover is off the lamp post with most of the wires hanging out with cachers thinking it was hidden in there!! :anicute:

Claire xx

Edited by CluelessTwo
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after some land managers expressed imaginary concern about the possibility of brigades of shovel-bearing geocachers ascending on their parks

 

real concern, real shovels....the following are all real logs from real caches

 

"dug at the foot of every hardwood in the hammock" this was a DNF on an early cache in Everglades National Park

 

"Went to this site on 9/18/01 and found nothing, returned today 10/13/01 and buried a red utility tray 4 X 10 X 3 . It contains some of my name cards, a $0 Bill Clinton, several $3 Hiliary Clinton bills and a Bay County Sheriff's key ring." Florida State forest

 

"cache is buried on the drip line of an oak" Miami County Park

 

Just as reporters got stuck on "the search for buried treasure" so did cachers. Separating geocaching from buried was critical to its early survival. That it did not survive in National parks isn't surprising, given that many of the early caches were buried.

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after some land managers expressed imaginary concern about the possibility of brigades of shovel-bearing geocachers ascending on their parks

 

real concern, real shovels....the following are all real logs from real caches

<snip>

 

OMG! I had no idea!! Thanks for (ummm.... :anicute: ) digging those up!

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If you look in this video you will also see the dreaded spade being involved in retreiving the cache.

 

You are not quite correct on that.

 

That video is composed of 2 pieces:-

- The first bit show Dave Ulmer with the first cache (stash)

- The second bit of that video was taken some years later as the site of the original cache was being prepared for a memorial plaque. That's why they were using the shovel/spade. (The plaque exists on that spot today.) It was during that site preparation when the OCB was rediscovered.

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Just been poking around the archives and found this: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=51561

 

Ok apparently still no guide lines yet but the first metion I have found that caches prehaps shouldn't be buried in post #17.

 

Fascinating read! (and very un-snarkey, to boot!) Thanks for the post!!

 

Off topic I know but I got into the archives.

 

are we are going to charged for geocaching?: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=57331

 

And knoweschad will remember how far back the which gps should I buy thread goes!

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry1507800

 

Sorry but I find the archives and history of geocacing rather intresting.

 

Edit: cant press the right buttons.

Edited by Wintonian
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The no burying rule was already in effect when I started in Sept of 2001. It was likely in response to the NPS ban, which I've been told originated because of buried caches.

 

He also broke another rule. He put food in the cache

 

...and the second cache had beer in it.

 

But if he didnt make the rules. Who did? Groundspeak? I thought they would of been advised by him or kept the game pretty much in the same way that he intended it to be.

 

Ulmer was for the most part through with geocaching within weeks after starting it. You can follow his posts on Usenet if you feel like doing some searching. Within two months of the start of geocaching he was concerned about potential damage from geocaching and also about the difficulty of hiding caches in urban areas (this was way before the micro) , so he started pushing something called "wonderts" which is essentially today's Waymarking.

 

The earliest rules beyond the original "take something, leave something" probably came from Jeremy when he realized that the sport wouldn't be viable if all the parks started banning it.

Edited by briansnat
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But I sure did like this part of the guidelines.

 

Ultimately you'll want to place a cache in a place that is unique in some way. The big reward for geocachers, other than finding the cache itself, is the location. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache.

Much more direct than the current suggestions.

 

Geocaching is just like real estate - location, location, location! It is common for geocachers to hide caches in locations that are important to them, reflecting a special interest or skill of the cache owner. These unique locations on the planet can be quite diverse. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache.

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The no burying rule was already in effect when I started in Sept of 2001. It was likely in response to the NPS ban, which I've been told originated because of buried caches.

 

He also broke another rule. He put food in the cache

 

...and the second cache had beer in it.

 

But if he didnt make the rules. Who did? Groundspeak? I thought they would of been advised by him or kept the game pretty much in the same way that he intended it to be.

 

Ulmer was pretty much through with geocaching within weeks after starting it. You can follow his posts on Usenet if you feel like doing some searching. Within two months of the start of geocaching he was concerned about potential damage from geocaching and also about the difficulty of hiding caches in urban areas (this was way before the micro) , so he started pushing something called "wonderts" which is essentially today's Waymarking.

 

The earliest rules beyond the original "take something, leave something" probably came from Jeremy when he realized that the sport wouldn't be viable if all the parks started banning it.

 

Thank you, just what we were looking for, someone witha weatlh of experence.

 

That also explains why he kind of dissapeard.

 

I have re-found his account here if anyone is intrested: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/Default....cbeef9&ds=2

 

and his wiki is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Ulmer

 

If you dig arround you can find a copy of his origonal usnet post somewhere as well.

 

Out of intrest and he beaing the grand-daddy of geocahing and that, does anyone know what Dave Ulmer is up to these days??

Edited by Wintonian
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But I sure did like this part of the guidelines.

 

Ultimately you'll want to place a cache in a place that is unique in some way. The big reward for geocachers, other than finding the cache itself, is the location. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache.

Much more direct than the current suggestions.

 

Geocaching is just like real estate - location, location, location! It is common for geocachers to hide caches in locations that are important to them, reflecting a special interest or skill of the cache owner. These unique locations on the planet can be quite diverse. A prime camping spot, great viewpoint, unusual location, etc. are all good places to hide a cache.

 

Sounds wonderfull and I would realy like to play the game that way, just looking tgrough the archives, when geocaching was still getting off the ground It does look like a proper self policing hobby/ sport, but I suppose things grow and have to change.

 

As I have alluded to (I think in the other thread) I found out about geocaching in about 2002/ 2003 and thought it was a great idea and sounded realy fun, I just couldn't afford a GPS then and I feel like I have missed out on a lot.

 

Edit: to add first paragraph cause I forgot what I was replying to!!

Edited by Wintonian
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The no burying rule was already in effect when I started in Sept of 2001. It was likely in response to the NPS ban, which I've been told originated because of buried caches.

 

He also broke another rule. He put food in the cache

 

...and the second cache had beer in it.

 

But if he didnt make the rules. Who did? Groundspeak? I thought they would of been advised by him or kept the game pretty much in the same way that he intended it to be.

 

Ulmer was pretty much through with geocaching within weeks after starting it. You can follow his posts on Usenet if you feel like doing some searching. Within two months of the start of geocaching he was concerned about potential damage from geocaching and also about the difficulty of hiding caches in urban areas (this was way before the micro) , so he started pushing something called "wonderts" which is essentially today's Waymarking.

 

The earliest rules beyond the original "take something, leave something" probably came from Jeremy when he realized that the sport wouldn't be viable if all the parks started banning it.

 

Thank you, just what we were looking for, someone witha weatlh of experence.

 

That also explains why he kind of dissapeard.

 

I have re-found his account here if anyone is intrested: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/Default....cbeef9&ds=2

 

and his wiki is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Ulmer

 

If you dig arround you can find a copy of his origonal usnet post somewhere as well.

 

Out of intrest and he beaing the grand-daddy of geocahing and that, does anyone know what Dave Ulmer is up to these days??

Last I update I got was the Dave was in New Mexico, but that was back in May. Living in a RV he could be anywhere now!

 

About my source... I will never tell! :anicute:

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I believe that the National Park Service announcement about banning geocaching played a part in the addition of the guideline. Here's that announcement, from the NPS "Morning Report" back in 2001. Note the last paragraph talking about buried caches. The incident that triggered the investigation was a buried cache.

 

Geocaching - There is a new web-based activity called geocaching that has affected several National Park Service areas. The Ranger Activities Division asked Olympic NP SA Mike Butler to investigate. Here's his report: Geocaching is an activity in which participants hide a cache and take a position at the location using a GPS receiver. The position is then published on the group's web site with an invitation to search for the "treasure." Caches often contain a notebook or log book and something the finder may take. The finder is asked to put another item in the cache for others to discover and will often report the find on the web site. Several caches have been found in National Park Service areas. The webmaster for the site has been contacted. He was very surprised that geocaching is illegal in NPS areas, and understood NPS concerns about the damage geocaching has and can cause to historic, archeological and natural sites. He agreed to work with the Service to discourage further geocaching activities in parks.

 

Two related activities were also discovered. Letterboxing is a phenomenon similar to geocaching in that a player takes directions from a web site and uses those directions to find a hidden object. In letterboxing, the directions come in the form of a riddle and the hidden object is a stamp which the finder can use to stamp a piece of paper to prove that he has visited the site. The web site showed the location of at least two letterboxes in parks. The parks have been notified, but the Service has not yet contacted the webmaster or game managers. The Degree Confluence Project is another web-based activity where people try to visit various latitude and longitude integer degree intersections and report their findings on the web site. In this case, however, no objects are placed in the ground, and there are no apparent regulatory violations in areas where cross-country travel is allowed or where the confluence is not on a protected site. There has been no attempt to contact the project organizers.

 

Additional comments referring to sections of the Code of Federal Regulations: The depositing of the cache, be it a bucket or other type of container, could be in violation of a few regulations like digging up plants if it was being buried. Additionally, it is against regulations to leave property unattended for more than 24 hours without it being subject to impoundment. If people are "hunting" for something, it could certainly take more than 24 hours to find. Lastly, some areas are closed to off-trail hiking which could prohibit someone from going off trail to place or retrieve a cache.

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