Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
CrotalusRex and Mimichan

Sea Shepherd Fundraiser Geocoin!

Recommended Posts

Hello fellow geocachers,

 

Thank you for your support of my previous wildlife fundraiser geocoins the Crikey Fundraiser Geocoin and the CrotalusRex and Mimichan Turtle Tracks Geocoin. I now have a new one to tell you about; The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society Fundraiser Geocoin!

 

SSCScoin.jpg

 

I wanted to help the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society fight the wildlife criminals of the world so I came up with the idea for this coin while watching the Animal Planet series Whale Wars last fall. I was greatly inspired by Sea Shepherd Founder and President Captain Paul Watson and his crew of brave and dedicated volunteers who set sail in the anti-whaling ship the Steve Irwin to hunt down and attempt to stop or slow down the Japanese whaling fleet from illegally poaching whales in the southern ocean whale sanctuary south of Australia. I wanted to raise funds for Sea Shepherd and help spread the word of their cause so I teamed up with Sea Shepherd and Coinsandpins.com to create this new and truly unique wildlife conservation fundraiser Geocoin.

 

This coin will be trackable at Geocaching.com--the tracking number is printed on the edge/side.

 

On the evening of Saturday July 18th the new Sea Shepherd Conservation Society Fundraiser Geocoin will go up for pre-sale on the CoinsandPins.com website.

 

With the approval of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society I designed this coin to raise money for Sea Shepherd so they can continue to protect ocean wildlife and habitats from the wildlife criminals of the world.

 

This coin will be produced by Coinsandpins.com and all money after production costs will be donated to the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. Please consider helping Sea Shepherd protect the oceans by purchasing one of these unique fundraiser geocoins and then pass this link on to all you friends...thank you for your support.

 

Read more about the Sea Shepherd Fundraiser Geocoin on it's website.

 

Purchase your coin starting on Saturday July 18th on the CoinsandPins.com website.

 

For the Oceans!

 

Steve O'Neil (aka: CrotalusRex)

Naturalist

Environmental Educator

Wildlife Warrior

Geocacher

 

<commercial links removed by moderator>

Edited by Eartha

Share this post


Link to post

I love Whale Wars I watch it every Friday night religiously. Great artwork, it captures the theme beautifully.

Edited by LadeBear68

Share this post


Link to post

Are these trackable?

 

From the link...

 

These special coins will be trackable on Geocaching.com with the tracking number individual to each coin printed on the edge of the coin.

Share this post


Link to post

I would have preferred a "fundraiser" for a grass roots group struggling to stay above ground organization for the cause rather than this commercialized org. that has no trouble "raising funds" but nice coin anyway and a good cause.

Edited by jAY miLLS

Share this post


Link to post

I would have preferred a coin that didn't support ecoterrorists. They seem to have no problems breaking any international law as long as the end justifies the means.

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you to everyone who has purchased a Sea Shepherd Fundraiser geocoin so far! Your kind donation by your purchase of this special coin will support the protection and conservation of countless whales, sharks, sea turtles, dolphins and other marine life and their habitats.

 

NOTE: This is not a flame letter in response to anyone’s posts; it is just a clarification of why I decided to develop this unique geocoin.

 

Here is a bit more background on this coin that may help you understand why I was inspired to design it: when I first watched Whales Wars on Animal Planet last fall I was astounded at some of the things that the Sea Shepherds did in order to protect wildlife. At first I thought--that can't be legal, that is a bit crazy. Then I watched more and was captivated and finally inspired when I realized that their actions, although questionable to some, were insignificant when viewed next to the blatant illegal slaughter of intelligent and often endangered creatures for food and wealth. What the Sea shepherds were doing may be considered harassment and eco-terrorism by some but they had tried everything else to stop the poaching of whales in the southern ocean whale sanctuary and it did not work. The bad press did not matter to the Japanese whale poachers who just continued to ignore the mandate set by the International Commission on Whaling that banned all commercial whaling in the 1980's.

 

The whalers claim to be conducting scientific experiments on the whales. If this is so then why do they have to kill so many? I am trained in biology and understand that you occasionally may have to take a few animals out of a population to better understand the species as a whole. I conduct wildlife research but I do not kill the animals I am studying--if I did I would soon have to find another species of animal to study because the population would be extinct. Also, if the Japanese whalers were actually conducting research then why do they need a factory ship--it is to process the meat so that it can be frozen and later sold to consumers as food. Hundreds of whales die on beaches all over the world each year for unknown reasons and these animals could easily be studied by scientists from all over the world.

 

What it all boils down to is that there is no need to kill whales anymore for food (unless you are a subsistence culture who hunts a limited number of whales each year for food.) Most species of whale have been studied and their biology is well known and documented for decades. There are plenty of other easier things to eat such as chicken, pork and beef that do not require sailing halfway around the world to get it. No one can deny that whales are intelligent, beautiful creatures that are integral to the health of the oceans and they do not need to be harvested for food.

 

The whale poachers of the world must be stopped.

 

Yes, other organizations are working to spread the word of the illegal whale poaching by the Japanese and other nations, but as they talk and send letters and petitions to those in power the simple fact is that whales are continuing to die by the thousands each year. While we all may not agree with some of the actions of the Sea Shepherds, it seems that if we want to see whales continue to exist in the worlds oceans that the Sea Shepherds are the only people actually doing anything about it.

 

Sometimes talking about a problem does nothing and the only course left is direct action. This is why I support the Sea Shepherds because they don't just talk--they DO! Using “innovative direct-action tactics to investigate, document, and take action when necessary to expose and confront illegal activities on the high seas” the Sea Shepherds are reducing the numbers of whales killed each year by the Japanese whale poachers. Their goal is to “sink” the Japanese whaling fleet by bankrupting them when they return home with catches far below their quota.

 

It is for these reasons that I support the actions of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and it is for these reasons that I contacted Sea Shepherd and worked with them to design the Sea Shepherd Fundraiser geocoin. I thought it would be a good way to raise some funds to help them in their quest to “defend ocean wildlife and habitats worldwide” and a way to raise awareness of their cause as the coins traveled all over the earth from geocacher to geocacher.

 

I truly want to help wildlife in any way that I am able.

 

CrotalusRex

 

NOTE: I am not racist in any way; it just happens that the Japanese whalers are the targets in this note so it seems that I am “bashing” the Japanese quite a bit. On the contrary, Japan is a beautiful country with a rich cultural heritage that I would love to visit one day. A large percentage of the Japanese public is against whaling—it is the elite, powerful few that want whale on their plate—it is a status symbol and they will pay anything to have it.

Share this post


Link to post

So basically anything goes since you disagree with their actions. Illegally mounting attacks against them, illegally boarding their ship, ramming their ship which can cause damage as well as death, illegally trying to foul their prop to leave them disabled in an area of the world which could sink their ship causing death to all on board, and many other terrorist attacks against them in the name of saving whales is justified because it's for a better world? Sounds very alarming to mean and is not something I think we should be supporting in times like these. They are no different than any other extremists organization who claims they are just trying to protect whatever cause. It's funny how when terrorists are doing the attacks they call it some politically correct term like innovative direct action tactics, but when you are the one's being attacked it can easily be summed up by calling it a terrorist attack. Again the ends justify the means. Try replacing Sea Shepard with Al Qaeda and it reads the same.

 

BTW giving false information to support your cause isn't fair to the people reading this. If you are truly as informed as you appear to be, you know that under international laws, which the Japanese are following, they are required to process the entire whale and not let any go to waste. They are also allowed to take a certain number of whales and are not in violation of this. If you truly want to stop these legal hunts, then use the processes available rather than being a vigilante attitude and attacking a foreign nation's vessels in international waters, rather than endangering their lives in the name of protecting another's life.

Share this post


Link to post

I love watching "Whale Wars." I'll probably buy several of these coins. (edit: just ordered four)

 

I also wondered why if the Japanese are calling it "research" do they need to kill so many whales. And where are the peer-reviewed journal-published studies that legitimate scientific research would generate?

 

Regardless of whether the whale killing is technically legal, it's obvious that the Japanese are exploiting the situation in order to make money from selling whale meat.

 

The whale killing that the Japanese are doing should not be legal. I saw a documentary a number of years ago about another Japanese fisheries practice that resulted in the killing of hundreds of dolphins. I think it was called "drive fisheries". It is horrendous what they get away with.

Edited by steve p

Share this post


Link to post

So, by that reasoning, if I was to bomb an abortion clinic because I thought the procedure was a criminal act and trying to change public opinion or pass anti-abortion legislation was taking too long, you'd be okay with that?

 

Paul Watson is a nutjob who has repeatedly advocated murder as a legitimate means of furthering his cause. He has been kicked out of nearly every other organization he has ever been a member of. Including Greenpeace, which he founded! Several members of his crew have gone on to commit assault, arson, and murder in the name of protecting animals.

Share this post


Link to post

I love watching "Whale Wars." I'll probably buy several of these coins. (edit: just ordered four)

 

I also wondered why if the Japanese are calling it "research" do they need to kill so many whales. And where are the peer-reviewed journal-published studies that legitimate scientific research would generate?

 

Regardless of whether the whale killing is technically legal, it's obvious that the Japanese are exploiting the situation in order to make money from selling whale meat.

 

The whale killing that the Japanese are doing should not be legal. I saw a documentary a number of years ago about another Japanese fisheries practice that resulted in the killing of hundreds of dolphins. I think it was called "drive fisheries". It is horrendous what they get away with.

So because you "feel" it should not be legal, you will condone any actions against it. Again with the ends justify the means. Vigilante justice is only condoned when it is for a politically correct agenda it seems.

 

I would have liked to see the Japanese ships take the illegal pirates back to their country and have a trial on what they are, eco-terrorists.

 

Would you feel so supportive if it was your actions these groups didn't agree with and were attacking your way of life? Would you feel they have the right to "defend" their feelings through violent actions against you?

Share this post


Link to post

So because you "feel" it should not be legal, you will condone any actions against it. Again with the ends justify the means. Vigilante justice is only condoned when it is for a politically correct agenda it seems.

 

I would have liked to see the Japanese ships take the illegal pirates back to their country and have a trial on what they are, eco-terrorists.

 

Would you feel so supportive if it was your actions these groups didn't agree with and were attacking your way of life? Would you feel they have the right to "defend" their feelings through violent actions against you?

I don't think my post says that I support their actions. The most I said was I enjoy watching the show, I disagree with killing whales and dolphins for profit motives, and I questioned their "research."

 

If you can answer what scientific information came from their "research" I would be very interested in reading about it.

Share this post


Link to post

I also do not support Japan's whaling activities, especially because the claim that what they do is "scientific" is so obviously nonsense (c'mon, call a spade a spade: just because you measure a whale before you cut it up for the local sushi bar does not mean that your activity is scientific). And as much as I value cultural heritage and tradition, especially Japanese heritage and tradition, I too would like to see whaling banned.

 

I understand the frustration people might have with the relatively slow pace of international law changes, and the very long time it takes for something to be rendered unacceptable on a world-wide scale. I understand the deep desire to take action now, especially if you regard individual whales as irreplaceable individuals -- the loss of even one, now, is a tragedy, and there's a real anguish in the idea of having to wait, while whales are being killed, for the world to come around. I get it, I do.

 

However, as a sailor, I find much of Sea Shepherd's seagoing activities dangerous and reprehensible. There are just things that should not be done at sea, and piracy (or simply bad seamanship) is one of them -- no matter what the justification.

 

So I'm afraid I'm with pghlooking on this one. I can't support this organization; I might agree with their overall issue, but I most definitely to not support their method of going about and achieving their agenda.

Share this post


Link to post

In short the Sea Shepard's terrorist actions take away from any issue they are trying to raise awareness of.

 

Another question I have, and maybe it should be split into a separate thread, but is GC being too liberal in what they allowing to be minted? This is a terrorist group and we are allowing funds to be raised for them which could be used to cause the loss of life of a sailor to be taken. Would a coin used to raise funds for Al Qaeda be allowed as well? Personally I don't see much difference between these groups as they both would love to see the other groups ships at the bottom of the sea. They have both said so.

Share this post


Link to post

In short the Sea Shepard's terrorist actions take away from any issue they are trying to raise awareness of.

 

Another question I have, and maybe it should be split into a separate thread, but is GC being too liberal in what they allowing to be minted? This is a terrorist group and we are allowing funds to be raised for them which could be used to cause the loss of life of a sailor to be taken. Would a coin used to raise funds for Al Qaeda be allowed as well? Personally I don't see much difference between these groups as they both would love to see the other groups ships at the bottom of the sea. They have both said so.

 

Have Sea Shepherd actually killed anyone? Just trying to get a handle on what you mean by "terrorist". Call me old fashioned but I thought terrorists actually killed people. I know that for awhile a Terrorist organisation was whatever George Bush said it was. Has this definition now been extended out even further? Do terrorist organisations now include those that try to save species from extinction? What about people that protect the forests? Are Rangers terrorists? How about Smokey the Bear? He has long hair. I bet he is one :D

 

Yes ! , let us all unite behind rich Japanese business executives right to eat endangered species for lunch :( Just hope they don't get a taste for bald headed eagles. If they do, will you become a "terrorist" ?

Edited by haysonics

Share this post


Link to post

No idea why I feel like chiming in on this one but, the Sea Shepard guys are going to get someone killed.

The second in command doesn't know anything about navigation. I'm amazed at how many of those zodaic's are sent out with first timers.

 

Seriously save the whales (or don't) but the Sea Shepard people are using their volunteers as canon fodder.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Have Sea Shepherd actually killed anyone? Just trying to get a handle on what you mean by "terrorist". Call me old fashioned but I thought terrorists actually killed people. I know that for awhile a Terrorist organisation was whatever George Bush said it was. Has this definition now been extended out even further? Do terrorist organisations now include those that try to save species from extinction? What about people that protect the forests? Are Rangers terrorists? How about Smokey the Bear? He has long hair. I bet he is one :D

 

Yes ! , let us all unite behind rich Japanese business executives right to eat endangered species for lunch :( Just hope they don't get a taste for bald headed eagles. If they do, will you become a "terrorist" ?

Just to clue ya in, no one has to be killed to be a terrorist. The idea is to create terror in your opponent/enemy. Try looking at the definition of the word. But then again at the pace these hacks are going at, they are going to get someone killed. Will you be just as proud of a terrorist supporter then?

 

Noun * S: (n) terrorist (a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities) define : terrorist

Share this post


Link to post

The United Nations has not been able to agree upon an official definition of terrorism because member states cannot agree upon wording. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. There are several working definitions:

 

Academic Consensus Definition "Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby - in contrast to assassination - the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperiled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought"

 

UN Security Council Definition "criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act."

 

To date Paul Watson has himself sunk 10 vessels at sea and has aided others in the sinking of at least two vessels and the destruction of a fish processing plant in Iceland. It is only through luck, not planning, that no one has been seriously injured or killed. Watson claims to have invented the practice of tree spiking (driving large nails into trees with the sole intent of maiming or killing loggers or saw mill workers).

 

A former member of Watson's crew (Rodney Coronado) formed the Animal Liberation Front -- which the FBI has identified as the country’s most dangerous domestic terrorist threat. Watson still does fundraising for the ALF.

 

Paul Watson is a total hypocrite too. When attacking driftnet fishing boats, he will often just cut the nets free and let them sink. Not only does he not rescue the fish in the net, but abandoned netting is a danger to whales, sea turtles and vessels.

 

His campaign against Canadian sealers has nothing to do with saving seals and everything to do with fundraising. The annual cull is humane, the harp seal is not endangered, and the income is vital to East coast fishermen. Paul Watson sees a cute animal (baby whitecoat seals are NOT hunted by the way) that can open big celebrity wallets. It is not by coincidence that the society's largest fundraising period occurs during the seal hunt.

 

Watson claims that he has never taken a penny of donated money for himself, yet he is payed a salary of $40,000 from the society and he charges each crew member $1000 per person per expedition for the honour of being onboard.

 

And for those badmouthing the Japanese, or any other whaling nation. None of them are whaling illegally. They all receive a quota from the International Whaling Commission, none of them have ever gone over their quota, and (except for aboriginal subsistance hunts), none of them hunt endangered species. The Japanese actually do make an effort to study the whales they hunt before selling the meat. They inspect stomach contents to track the whale population's effect on more lucrative fish stock, and test the blubber for toxins and pollutants. The Norweigians who have the exact same quota, are purely a commercial hunt, yet nobody mentions them.

 

And just a note: though still a protected species in the US, the bald eagle is not endangered anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Another question I have, and maybe it should be split into a separate thread, but is GC being too liberal in what they allowing to be minted? This is a terrorist group and we are allowing funds to be raised for them which could be used to cause the loss of life of a sailor to be taken. Would a coin used to raise funds for Al Qaeda be allowed as well? Personally I don't see much difference between these groups as they both would love to see the other groups ships at the bottom of the sea. They have both said so.

 

I don't think it is GC's job to police what coins are produced. They need to approve artwork for copyright and legal issues, but not for purpose. We as consumers make this determination by not buying or supporting coins for causes that we personally do not agree with. And even as a geocacher, if I come across a coin that does not appeal to me, I don't have to move it (although I wouldn't destroy it).

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks E&Cplus3 for the info.

 

I can't support, let alone even understand, actions that seek to harm people. Blocking whaling ships, timber transport, etc, I can comprehend. Even the sinking of unmanned vessels at night while they are in dock I can comprehend. That is just the destruction of equipment. But targetting people, that crosses the line and is reprehensible. That is real terrorism. If Paul Watson has taken credit for Tree Spiking he should feel ashamed.

 

I wish I could be positive about the International Whaling Commission and their quotas but the Japanese have been caught out before. They were given a quota for Tuna fishing in the Southern Ocean. For years they reported figures that were under the quota. The Southern Blue Fin Tuna nearly became extinct ! An investigation found that they were actually exceeding their quota threefold. They have had their Tuna rights in the Southern Ocean suspended until stocks are replenished. As for scientific information from whaling; the only scientists who are claiming any scientific benefit are Japanese. You don't need to kill whales in order to monitor fish stocks. You don't need to kill whales to measure toxins either. You can take samples by scraping a whale with a long pole. That is what all other nations scientists do. The Japanese have also been buying the votes of as many countries as possible in order to try and overturn the legislation that imposes quotas. I understand the majority of Japanese do not support whaling but its the minority who are the threat. They won't stop without force. History has shown this time and time again. It is a cultural thing. I acknowledge their culture is slowly changing but not fast enough to save the whale. That is why I support the Sea Shepherd.

 

PS. I am glad to hear the bald eagle is off the endangered list.

Edited by haysonics

Share this post


Link to post

If anyone gets killed it's unlikely to be someone from the Japanese fleet. It's far more likely that a Sea Shepherd crew member will get killed by the group's own actions.

 

As much as I enjoy watching the show, sometimes it's like watching the Three Stooges! Peter Brown ignores everyone else on the bridge, and as a direct result steamed the ship into a huge ice field that almost sunk their own ship. The Zodiac boats run around not paying attention to their instructions and nearly get lost in the ocean. The crew needs to start paying more attention to Jane Taylor. She seems to know what to do on a ship.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks E&Cplus3 for the info.

 

I can't support, let alone even understand, actions that seek to harm people. Blocking whaling ships, timber transport, etc, I can comprehend. Even the sinking of unmanned vessels at night while they are in dock I can comprehend. That is just the destruction of equipment. But targetting people, that crosses the line and is reprehensible. That is real terrorism. If Paul Watson has taken credit for Tree Spiking he should feel ashamed.

 

I wish I could be positive about the International Whaling Commission and their quotas but the Japanese have been caught out before. They were given a quota for Tuna fishing in the Southern Ocean. For years they reported figures that were under the quota. The Southern Blue Fin Tuna nearly became extinct ! An investigation found that they were actually exceeding their quota threefold. They have had their Tuna rights in the Southern Ocean suspended until stocks are replenished. As for scientific information from whaling; the only scientists who are claiming any scientific benefit are Japanese. You don't need to kill whales in order to monitor fish stocks. You don't need to kill whales to measure toxins either. You can take samples by scraping a whale with a long pole. That is what all other nations scientists do. The Japanese have also been buying the votes of as many countries as possible in order to try and overturn the legislation that imposes quotas. I understand the majority of Japanese do not support whaling but its the minority who are the threat. They won't stop without force. History has shown this time and time again. It is a cultural thing. I acknowledge their culture is slowly changing but not fast enough to save the whale. That is why I support the Sea Shepherd.

 

PS. I am glad to hear the bald eagle is off the endangered list.

 

Am I reading correctly that you find the Sea Shepherd's actions reprehensible yet you will support them all the same? A wrong can't be righted by a wrong!

Share this post


Link to post

This has probably been asked before but since I don't know, why can a geocoin support a cause or agenda but not a geocache?

Share this post


Link to post

This has probably been asked before but since I don't know, why can a geocoin support a cause or agenda but not a geocache?

 

Apples and Oranges. Geocaches are for all geocachers. And the guidelines are to help keep the land managers happy. Geocoins are a game piece, a collector's item, and a signature item for just some of the caching popluation. Some are trackable, some are not, but a geocoin won't get caches kicked out of a park. Geocaches go through a review process. Not all geocoins go through a review process, only the trackable ones do.

 

I can't see how this thread will help this cause in any way. I wasn't familiar with this group before and I'm certainly not in love with this Sea Shepard group now that I've read it. I find this all very disturbing.

Share this post


Link to post

I had to leave for work this morning so I didn't respond as fully as I would have liked so here goes...

Have Sea Shepherd actually killed anyone? Just trying to get a handle on what you mean by "terrorist". Call me old fashioned but I thought terrorists actually killed people. I know that for awhile a Terrorist organisation was whatever George Bush said it was. Has this definition now been extended out even further?

Is this the point in which you consider them to have run afoul? Sinking ships, attacking them in open seas, and just plain creating terror isn't enough? If they were harassing you at your work, stalking you, throwing items to create havoc and such, would you just chalk that up to just a good old time? What if they were trying to sink your ship in frigid Antarctic waters? That's not enough?

 

Do terrorist organisations now include those that try to save species from extinction?

Their objectives do not quantify them as such, but their actions do. There are plenty of groups out there trying to save this that or the other who do not do so in such a violent and risky manner.

 

What about people that protect the forests? Are Rangers terrorists? How about Smokey the Bear? He has long hair. I bet he is one ;)

Rangers are trying to stop eco-terrorists as far as I know since most of their actions are against laws. Spiking trees which can kill loggers, strapping themselves to the tops of trees in forests, and destroying equipment to halt logging are all crimes and the rangers do their part in helping prevent these people. Now as for Smokey the Bear, I do not know much about him other than he really hates fire. I wouldn't think he was a terrorist, but I guess anything is possible.

 

Yes ! , let us all unite behind rich Japanese business executives right to eat endangered species for lunch :D Just hope they don't get a taste for bald headed eagles. If they do, will you become a "terrorist" ?

I heard it tastes like chicken.

Share this post


Link to post

(Killing people) Is this the point in which you consider (it would) run afoul? Sinking ships, attacking them in open seas, and just plain creating terror isn't enough?

Killing or deliberately harming people is terrorism IMO. However blocking whaling ships, blocking the hauling of whales from the sea, thats not terrorism IMO. I can even comprehend the sinking of whaling ships as long as there is no one on board. We can debate "creating terror" till the cows come home. Whalers fight back with high pressure hoses. Its a war. As long as guns stay out of it, it is a just war IMO.

 

If they were harassing you at your work, stalking you, throwing items to create havoc and such, would you just chalk that up to just a good old time? What if they were trying to sink your ship in frigid Antarctic waters? That's not enough?

My work does not involve the killing of whales. However if I was a whaler right now I would be considering my safety and getting out of the business. Let's hope that is what is running through their minds. The "its my job" argument doesn't hold water. Kind of like the "I was under orders" or "he made me do it" arguments.

 

There are plenty of groups out there trying to save this that or the other who do not do so in such a violent and risky manner.

There is a difference between trying to do something and actually achieving results. Sea Shepherd came into existence because it was required. They put their own lives at risk. That is what it takes these days.

 

Rangers are trying to stop eco-terrorists as far as I know since most of their actions are against laws. Spiking trees which can kill loggers, strapping themselves to the tops of trees in forests, and destroying equipment to halt logging are all crimes and the rangers do their part in helping prevent these people.

Tree spiking puts loggers and mill workers at high risk of injury or death and is reprehensible. Strapping yourself to a tree or destroying equipment does not do this. There are different crimes and different punnishments. Labelling all these actions as "crime" or "terrorism" may be convenient but it doesn't reflect reality.

 

I heard (bald eagles) taste like chicken.

I heard people taste like pork :D

Edited by haysonics

Share this post


Link to post

(Killing people) Is this the point in which you consider (it would) run afoul? Sinking ships, attacking them in open seas, and just plain creating terror isn't enough?

Killing or deliberately harming people is terrorism IMO. However blocking whaling ships, blocking the hauling of whales from the sea, thats not terrorism IMO. I can even comprehend the sinking of whaling ships as long as there is no one on board. We can debate "creating terror" till the cows come home. Whalers fight back with high pressure hoses. Its a war. As long as guns stay out of it, it is a just war IMO.

 

So a Hamas rocket barrage that lands in an Israeli settlement and destroys a bunch of homes, but doesn't actually kill anyone is okay. A roadside bomb in Iraq that destroys a convoy, but doesn't kill any soldiers is okay. How do these examples differ from what the Sea Shepherd crew does?

 

By the way, the Sea Shepherd has a fully stocked arsenal of AK47s and they use purpose built water cannons. Not the improvised ones that whalers are defending themselves with.

 

In 1992 Spain rebuilt and sailed replicas of the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria to retrace Columbus' historic voyage. The Sea Shepherd chased down the Santa Maria and threatened to sink her if the captain did not write an apology to North American natives.

 

“There’s nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win. Then you write the history.”

— Paul Watson, at the Animal Rights 2002 convention

 

“We should never feel like we’re going too far in breaking the law, because whatever laws you break to liberate animals or to protect the environment are very insignificant.”

— Paul Watson, at the Animal Rights 2002 convention

 

“Animal Liberation Front tactics are going to continue. There’s not a damned thing you can do about it, you’re not going to stop it. So you might as well incorporate it into the movement.”

— Paul Watson, at the Animal Rights 2002 convention

 

“The fact is that we live in an extremely violent culture, and we all justify violence if it’s for what we believe in.”

— Paul Watson, at the Animal Rights 2002 convention

Share this post


Link to post

So, we can have a "geo"coin that celebrates and raises funds for a group of ecoterrorists... but not one that brings recognition to the environmental destruction caused by illegal immigration along the southern border with Mexico?

Share this post


Link to post

(Killing people) Is this the point in which you consider (it would) run afoul? Sinking ships, attacking them in open seas, and just plain creating terror isn't enough?

 

Killing or deliberately harming people is terrorism IMO. However blocking whaling ships, blocking the hauling of whales from the sea, thats not terrorism IMO. I can even comprehend the sinking of whaling ships as long as there is no one on board. We can debate "creating terror" till the cows come home. Whalers fight back with high pressure hoses. Its a war. As long as guns stay out of it, it is a just war IMO.

 

So a Hamas rocket barrage that lands in an Israeli settlement and destroys a bunch of homes, but doesn't actually kill anyone is okay. A roadside bomb in Iraq that destroys a convoy, but doesn't kill any soldiers is okay. How do these examples differ from what the Sea Shepherd crew does?

 

Hamas/Hezbolah/Al Queda rockets and roadside bombs are deployed with the sole intention of killing people.

Sea Shepherd does not set out to kill people. They don't shoot people. They don't launch rockets at people. They don't lay out bombs in the way of people.

 

By the way, the Sea Shepherd has a fully stocked arsenal of AK47s...

 

Are they using their AK47's to attack people? No

Do they have them for defence? Yes

 

It sounds like you are trying to associate their gun ownership with terrorism. Is it because they own automatics ? Because they are AK's ? I imagine they bought AK's because they are the cheapest machine guns available. AK's are rubbish though. If they wanted to actually hit targets they would have shelled out for UZI's.

 

In 1992 Spain rebuilt and sailed replicas of the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria to retrace Columbus' historic voyage. The Sea Shepherd chased down the Santa Maria and threatened to sink her if the captain did not write an apology to North American natives.

 

That is definately crossing the line in my book. I don't support that. However I could understand why some North American natives might support that.

 

“The fact is that we live in an extremely violent culture, and we all justify violence if it’s for what we believe in.”

— Paul Watson, at the Animal Rights 2002 convention.

 

Do you disagree with this statement ?

 

As an aside, I now see a google ad at the top of my screen that reads "67% off Rocket Japanese... Learn to speak Japanese in 8 weeks 67% off our downloadable software" :D

Edited by haysonics

Share this post


Link to post

The annual cull is humane, the harp seal is not endangered, and the income is vital to East coast fishermen. Paul Watson sees a cute animal (baby whitecoat seals are NOT hunted by the way) that can open big celebrity wallets. It is not by coincidence that the society's largest fundraising period occurs during the seal hunt.

 

Lies. The video speaks for itself. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7995118004781234680

*Inhumane: In 2001, a report by an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare standards. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42 percent of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

*Whitecoats are killed: In 2006, 98 percent of the harp seals killed were pups under just three months of age. I feel I should expand on this a bit. Some groups use "baby seal" and "whitecoat" to mean the same thing. While others go into a whole hierarchy of seals, where "whitecoats" are two weeks and under. I generally call anything under a year a "whitecoat" as they generally have white on their coats around the first months. Just clarifying.

*Not vital for economy: Sealing is an off-season activity conducted by fishermen from Canada's East Coast. They make, on average, one twentieth of their incomes from seal hunting and the rest from commercial fisheries.

 

Also, I fully support the Sea Shepherds and ANY other group that's trying to protect this little ball of rock we call Earth, regularly send them requested supplies, donate online, have their clothing, and bought the geocoin. If part of Al-Qaeda's mission was to protect the environment (ie Destorying oil pipelines) I would fund them as well.

Edited by stepshep

Share this post


Link to post

If part of Al-Qaeda's mission was to protect the environment (ie Destorying oil pipelines) I would fund them as well.

 

Unbelievable!!!! That has got to be one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Share this post


Link to post

If part of Al-Qaeda's mission was to protect the environment (ie Destorying oil pipelines) I would fund them as well.

 

Unbelievable!!!! That has got to be one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

 

I'm sad that you think I'm sad. Does that make us even?

Share this post


Link to post

If part of Al-Qaeda's mission was to protect the environment (ie Destorying oil pipelines) I would fund them as well.

 

Unbelievable!!!! That has got to be one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Ah the youth of America. Once again proving how the education system has failed us. We will see how your opinion about supporting a group that has caused the death of thousands of Americans will change as you mature. Of course you could always hand deliver your support money to them, but sadly they would be more interested in killing you for being the devil. Maybe when you start working for your money you will be more diligent in whom you share it with.

 

On a side note, how cool was it when the Japanese used the LRAD as defense of their ships last night. The Sea Weasel complained how unsafe it was of course. Guess what, stop attacking them and causing them to defend themselves and you won't be in an unsafe situation. They also hated the fact the Japanese have a prop fouler of their own and were absolutely in panic mode. I loved it.

Edited by pghlooking

Share this post


Link to post

Just a little advice, of which I'm sure you're aware, but: don't feed the trolls.

 

P.S. LRAD is cool!

Share this post


Link to post

Just a little advice, of which I'm sure you're aware, but: don't feed the trolls.

 

P.S. LRAD is cool!

It's not a troll, just a kid that hasn't lived enough to have to account for anything yet and makes statements that are pretty repulsive. I am sure he would change his tune if he knew someone who lost their life on 9/11 due to those terrorists he would help fund if they were destroying something he believed in. A sad state as to what our kids are being taught in school nowadays.

 

I found it funny last night when the Sea Shepard was "offended" the Japanese fleet would actually defend themselves with something non lethal against their aggressions. They don't get it that if they weren't there causing the terrorism, there wouldn't even be a need for the non lethal LRAD to DEFEND themselves. Their whole bait N switch was to lure the harpoon vessels in, which they eventually did, but then hated they were using the same prop fouler technique against them. I found it funny and have been rooting for them. Nice to see them on the run for once. They don't like it one bit. Not as much fun when the shoe's on the other foot.

 

They are like a bunch of kids who never grew up. They call Paul Watson Captain even though he doesn't have a Captain's license. I wonder if the Netherlands are going to fine them or something for throwing bottles from the ship's deck, which is in violation of their maritime laws and they have been notified of this. The moment the fleet was in range Paul Watson gave them permission to violate this law. Seems anything goes with these idiots.

Share this post


Link to post

If part of Al-Qaeda's mission was to protect the environment (ie Destorying oil pipelines) I would fund them as well.

 

Unbelievable!!!! That has got to be one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

 

I'm sad that you think I'm sad. Does that make us even?

 

I DO know someone who was lost on 9/11 and this comment SICKENS me! Grow up and maybe try to learn something while doing so. If you don't like the way we're going, PLEASE let me help you find the exit!

 

As for the back and forth, this too sickens me. Maybe if we just leave this thread alone, it'll go away like it should and we can get back to CACHING related coins? Those complaining about the coin might remember they are also giving the stupid thing a lot of attention which, if you all believe what you're saying (and I KNOW you do), isn't a good thing IMHO.

 

What's truly sad is someone would even consider making this coin....sad.

Share this post


Link to post

Remember the one where he said he got shot but then it was later shown that he was lying? What happened with that? I know that if I got shot, I'd be raising holy hell about it. You'd think that if he really did get shot and didn't stage it, people like them would have it splashed all over the place.

Share this post


Link to post

 

I DO know someone who was lost on 9/11 and this comment SICKENS me! Grow up and maybe try to learn something while doing so. If you don't like the way we're going, PLEASE let me help you find the exit!

 

As for the back and forth, this too sickens me. Maybe if we just leave this thread alone, it'll go away like it should and we can get back to CACHING related coins? Those complaining about the coin might remember they are also giving the stupid thing a lot of attention which, if you all believe what you're saying (and I KNOW you do), isn't a good thing IMHO.

 

What's truly sad is someone would even consider making this coin....sad.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. I liked it when this thread was on page 3 as much as you.

 

The part I disagree with is what you call the back and forth. Many people had no clue about the evil dark side of the Sea Shepard. Most people would have believed they were nothing more than a peace loving group trying to hold hands around whales and peacefully try to save them through education. If people such as myself hadn't responded to help expose their ways and educate people as to the true terrorist methods they use, this coin would probably be a good sellers as people would think they are doing something to help a good group. Sometimes we need to have some back and forth to let everyone know the truth.

Share this post


Link to post

 

I DO know someone who was lost on 9/11 and this comment SICKENS me! Grow up and maybe try to learn something while doing so. If you don't like the way we're going, PLEASE let me help you find the exit!

 

As for the back and forth, this too sickens me. Maybe if we just leave this thread alone, it'll go away like it should and we can get back to CACHING related coins? Those complaining about the coin might remember they are also giving the stupid thing a lot of attention which, if you all believe what you're saying (and I KNOW you do), isn't a good thing IMHO.

 

What's truly sad is someone would even consider making this coin....sad.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. I liked it when this thread was on page 3 as much as you.

 

The part I disagree with is what you call the back and forth. Many people had no clue about the evil dark side of the Sea Shepard. Most people would have believed they were nothing more than a peace loving group trying to hold hands around whales and peacefully try to save them through education. If people such as myself hadn't responded to help expose their ways and educate people as to the true terrorist methods they use, this coin would probably be a good sellers as people would think they are doing something to help a good group. Sometimes we need to have some back and forth to let everyone know the truth.

 

You did this on the first few posts, I don't think we need more of the same, do we? All that's being done now is promoting a coin most of us would rather disappear. I appreciate your jumping in on this, but I think enough is more than enough. :D

Edited by Rockin Roddy

Share this post


Link to post

You did this on the first few posts, I don't think we need more of the same, do we? All that's being done now is promoting a coin most of us would rather disappear. I appreciate your jumping in on this, but I think enough is more than enough. :D

I am clearly not promoting this coin. At the same time when someone comes in with some new argument or angle on how good these guys are, I will use my freedoms and express my difference of opinion.

 

Feel free to skip over it or even ignore it, but I think I will decide for myself what's enough. I don't think you can really decide that for me, anymore than I would tell you about your posts, what is enough or too much. That's kid of arrogant don't you think? Last I checked it was still a forum for discussions.

 

I had added new things to my posts, not rehashed the same info. Secondly, do think trying to smack my hand, to which you have no ability to do so, is promoting this thread? Maybe heeding your own advice would be best. I will wait for your bump of the thread, which I will assume will be your way of promoting this coin?!

Share this post


Link to post

In short the Sea Shepard's terrorist actions take away from any issue they are trying to raise awareness of.

 

Another question I have, and maybe it should be split into a separate thread, but is GC being too liberal in what they allowing to be minted? This is a terrorist group and we are allowing funds to be raised for them which could be used to cause the loss of life of a sailor to be taken. Would a coin used to raise funds for Al Qaeda be allowed as well? Personally I don't see much difference between these groups as they both would love to see the other groups ships at the bottom of the sea. They have both said so.

With that in mind, if the US or any other Govenment ever were to declare these people a terrorist group, where would that leave GS?? Are we getting to a point where Coin designs will have to pass the GS legal advisors as well?

Share this post


Link to post

In short the Sea Shepard's terrorist actions take away from any issue they are trying to raise awareness of.

 

Another question I have, and maybe it should be split into a separate thread, but is GC being too liberal in what they allowing to be minted? This is a terrorist group and we are allowing funds to be raised for them which could be used to cause the loss of life of a sailor to be taken. Would a coin used to raise funds for Al Qaeda be allowed as well? Personally I don't see much difference between these groups as they both would love to see the other groups ships at the bottom of the sea. They have both said so.

With that in mind, if the US or any other Govenment ever were to declare these people a terrorist group, where would that leave GS?? Are we getting to a point where Coin designs will have to pass the GS legal advisors as well?

I think GS should have been doing this from the get go. Their statement of they only determine if the image is friendly or not doesn't wash. They are making money from a coin that is being sold here, promoted here, and approved from here that does support terrorism. I asked before, would an Al Qaeda coin be approved? If the image was family friendly and didn't show someone's head being hacked off, would it be OK?

 

I don't expect GC to be responsible for everything, but if they are going to approve a coin, especially one for a fund raiser, shouldn't they know a little about the group. Like it or not, their approval o the coin comes across as support for the coin's message.

Share this post


Link to post

The annual cull is humane, the harp seal is not endangered, and the income is vital to East coast fishermen. Paul Watson sees a cute animal (baby whitecoat seals are NOT hunted by the way) that can open big celebrity wallets. It is not by coincidence that the society's largest fundraising period occurs during the seal hunt.

 

Lies. The video speaks for itself. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7995118004781234680

*Inhumane: In 2001, a report by an independent team of veterinarians who studied the hunt concluded that governmental regulations regarding humane killing were neither being respected nor enforced, and that the seal hunt failed to comply with Canada's basic animal welfare standards. Shockingly, the veterinarians found that in 42 percent of the cases they studied, the seals had likely been skinned alive while conscious.

*Whitecoats are killed: In 2006, 98 percent of the harp seals killed were pups under just three months of age. I feel I should expand on this a bit. Some groups use "baby seal" and "whitecoat" to mean the same thing. While others go into a whole hierarchy of seals, where "whitecoats" are two weeks and under. I generally call anything under a year a "whitecoat" as they generally have white on their coats around the first months. Just clarifying.

*Not vital for economy: Sealing is an off-season activity conducted by fishermen from Canada's East Coast. They make, on average, one twentieth of their incomes from seal hunting and the rest from commercial fisheries.

 

Also, I fully support the Sea Shepherds and ANY other group that's trying to protect this little ball of rock we call Earth, regularly send them requested supplies, donate online, have their clothing, and bought the geocoin. If part of Al-Qaeda's mission was to protect the environment (ie Destorying oil pipelines) I would fund them as well.

 

You throw out a lot of statistics there. Kinda funny coming from a man (Paul Watson) who has said in his book "If you don’t know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then ... make it up on the spot." None of the stats you spouted are verifiable or accurate. The 'pups' culled in the hunt are under a year old, yes. But they are weened from their mothers and are independent. They are adults by any other measure.

 

The 'independant' vets you talk of were commissioned by the Sea Shepherd foundation and gave their results based on footage and information provided solely by the Sea Shepherd foundation. Kinda biased, don't you think?

 

That 5% figure applies to the whole East Coast fishery, not individual sealers. Not every fisherman has a sealing license. Those who do hunt seals make between 25% and 40% of their income from sealing.

 

Japan has officially labelled Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd foundation as terrorists. I don't know what that entails in Japan, but if the same were true in the US then anyone providing 'aid or material support' could conceivably receive a sentence up to life imprisonment.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Japan has officially labelled Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd foundation as terrorists. I don't know what that entails in Japan, but if the same were true in the US then anyone providing 'aid or material support' could conceivably receive a sentence up to life imprisonment.

including freezing their financial assets, even without a trial.

Share this post


Link to post

 

Japan has officially labeled Paul Watson and the Sea Shepherd foundation as terrorists. I don't know what that entails in Japan, but if the same were true in the US then anyone providing 'aid or material support' could conceivably receive a sentence up to life imprisonment.

including freezing their financial assets, even without a trial.

So does GC and coin vendors have a duty to know who they are supporting BEFORE allowing a coin to go into production? Hindsight is something easy to claim but when you have various redesigns on coins through a vendor they can't claim that. When the final authority is GC and they make the final decision based on final art, they can't claim ignorance. At the very least it looks bad on both of their parts as they should know who they are producing a coin for. It only takes a moment to look on the web for the info about the group, and the group's site isn't always the best site for accurate info.I am sure Al Qaeda doesn't say on their site We cut the heads off of American devil's that we capture all in the name of Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

×
×
  • Create New...