What are the terrain guidelines given to prospective cache owners?

[+CluelessTwo]

Hi Ya

 

Yesterday we went for our daily geo caching fix. To date we have been choosing things at not more than a 2 terrain because I have asthma and am also carrying considerable weight, in fact geocaching is a bid to get more fitter.

 

However the other day we went to a cache called Riverside Walk in Ballynahinch. This Riverside walk was approached by steep steps and I thought this was probably the reason that the .5 was added to the rating because it was unaccessible to wheenchairs etc and that bit more strenious.

 

However when we came closer to ground zero we realised that it wasnt possible to reach ground zero without climbing up a 40 degree gradient (which I have done before and am not adverse to however when you see a 1.5 rating for a cache you do assume it is doable in the attire you are currently wearing and you dont change). The 40 degree gradient had loose leaves and soil, these were actually dry today but on a wet day this cache would be tretcherous to attempt.

 

On the way up I managed it but on the way down my feet came from under me and I slid down the bank (after all the bank (which was also approx 50metres long) was close to the same gradient as a childs garden slide.

 

This one most certainly wasnt a 1.5 in my opinion however who am I to say this?? Im a relatively new Geocacher with only 48 finds who has only been doing this 10 days.

 

Im just wondering if any of you seasoned geocachers can point me to guidelines?

 

Claire xx

[Dinoprophet]

This is the generally accepted rating system. It's not official, but it is recommended and linked on the cache submission form.

 

You're supposed to rate it based on the hardest part of the trek. Setting everything to the easiest except for "What is the terrain elevation like?" yields at least a 2 for terrain.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Dinoprophet

[+StarBrand]

Agreed sounds like a 2 to me as well. Then clayjar system is as official as it gets.

[+CluelessTwo]

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

[Keystone]

Cache owners will often adjust terrain ratings and difficulty ratings based on feedback from finders. Politely let the owner know in your log or in an e-mail what your experience was. The owner can then edit the ratings if they choose to do so.

[+StarBrand]

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

 

Are you certain yours was the only approach to the cache location? Often a lower rating than you expect is due to the fact there is an easier way to get there.

[+Wintonian]

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

 

Thats a rather subjective set of criteria, what one person can push a bike up may be diffrent for someone else who is less fit or has a medical condition.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Wintonian

[jholly]

Definitely a 2, probably a 3. A different perspective from the cjs is Markwell's FAQ.

 

Jim

[+bittsen]

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

 

Are you certain yours was the only approach to the cache location? Often a lower rating than you expect is due to the fact there is an easier way to get there.

 

I hate to correct you but you cannot push a bike up a 40 degree slope.

Back when I was in a physics class, we did tests to determin friction of various solids. There were only a couple of them that could get close a 40 degree slope and soil wasn't one of them. At 40 degrees, you are climbing.

Edited July 15, 2009 by bittsen

[+J-Way]

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

A 40° slope is almost 1:1 and is pretty darn steep. If the slope is rough rock, with good shoe traction and plenty of places to step, a 40° slope wouldn't be much of a problem. If it's dirt, mud, or covered with loose leaves, it would be almost impossible to climb without some sort of hand-hold (small trees and such).

[+StarBrand]

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

A 40° slope is almost 1:1 and is pretty darn steep. If the slope is rough rock, with good shoe traction and plenty of places to step, a 40° slope wouldn't be much of a problem. If it's dirt, mud, or covered with loose leaves, it would be almost impossible to climb without some sort of hand-hold (small trees and such).

Maybe I just live around too many hills......

[+Renegade Knight]

...I hate to correct you but you cannot push a bike up a 40 degree slope.

Back when I was in a physics class, we did tests to determin friction of various solids. There were only a couple of them that could get close a 40 degree slope and soil wasn't one of them. At 40 degrees, you are climbing.

 

Stability varies by soil type. 40 degrees assuming you are measuring from the ground up, is just shy of a 1H:1V slope (Exactly halfway from horizontal to vertical). You can hike up that but it's steep. Depending on tracktion you may be using your hands to help you hike. I'd have to try to push a bike up it to see how that would work. Some surfaces no problm. Some no way. If you did slip depending on the suface you will slide down at least part way. You can mow it but it's an invitation to be hurt. 3V:1H is the normal limit for doing anything useful on a slope.

[+Renegade Knight]

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

A 40° slope is almost 1:1 and is pretty darn steep. If the slope is rough rock, with good shoe traction and plenty of places to step, a 40° slope wouldn't be much of a problem. If it's dirt, mud, or covered with loose leaves, it would be almost impossible to climb without some sort of hand-hold (small trees and such).

 

I should have read your post first. I could of just quoted it.

[+CluelessTwo]

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

 

Are you certain yours was the only approach to the cache location? Often a lower rating than you expect is due to the fact there is an easier way to get there.

 

Hi Ya

 

Maybe I have misrepresented the gradient but this was a hill that you could barely get grip on. my husband and I went up it practically on our hands and knees (so I know it wasnt my weight at fault because my husband is 9 stone and very agile). Your only way of getting up (because of the soil that was loose) was to grab onto things and there wasnt much to grab onto.

 

The only other aprroach was through roughland up the same slope or over a hedge from the left hand side, neither of which were possibilities (believe me we tried).

 

Maybe you just need to try it for yourself (if you live over here) but in my opinion (and I have been seeing a personal trainer for a while so Im not unfit) it was definitely not a hill that you could push a bike up!

 

Claire xx

[+Renegade Knight]

...Maybe I just live around too many hills......

No doubt you can tell at a glance what's going to give you trouble, plus read the terrain so you know what's slippery at what slope and what's stable.

 

There is actually quite a bit of skill there that you might take for granted.

[+bittsen]

...I hate to correct you but you cannot push a bike up a 40 degree slope.

Back when I was in a physics class, we did tests to determin friction of various solids. There were only a couple of them that could get close a 40 degree slope and soil wasn't one of them. At 40 degrees, you are climbing.

 

Stability varies by soil type. 40 degrees assuming you are measuring from the ground up, is just shy of a 1H:1V slope (Exactly halfway from horizontal to vertical). You can hike up that but it's steep. Depending on tracktion you may be using your hands to help you hike. I'd have to try to push a bike up it to see how that would work. Some surfaces no problm. Some no way. If you did slip depending on the suface you will slide down at least part way. You can mow it but it's an invitation to be hurt. 3V:1H is the normal limit for doing anything useful on a slope.

Agreed, for the most part. No matter the surface, your hands would be involved inless it were stairstepped. There is NO way one could ride a bike up a 40 degree.

For the most part, even stairs don't incline 40 degrees.

If the slope was a steady 40 degrees, and you slipped, down you go and quite fast. I know from experience on this one.

A small anectdote:

Once I tried to climb a relative 35 degree slope. It was dirt and leaves and I didn't have too much of a hard time crawling on tree roots, despite the knee brace on my leg. I slipped and slid down about 100 or so feet before I rested against a tree.

2 weeks later someone was doing the exact same route up this hill and slipped. They slid to their death. I'm pretty sure they were a little higher up the climb than I had gone but it still goes to show the dangers in a 40 degree slope.

[+CluelessTwo]

...I hate to correct you but you cannot push a bike up a 40 degree slope.

Back when I was in a physics class, we did tests to determin friction of various solids. There were only a couple of them that could get close a 40 degree slope and soil wasn't one of them. At 40 degrees, you are climbing.

 

Stability varies by soil type. 40 degrees assuming you are measuring from the ground up, is just shy of a 1H:1V slope (Exactly halfway from horizontal to vertical). You can hike up that but it's steep. Depending on tracktion you may be using your hands to help you hike. I'd have to try to push a bike up it to see how that would work. Some surfaces no problm. Some no way. If you did slip depending on the suface you will slide down at least part way. You can mow it but it's an invitation to be hurt. 3V:1H is the normal limit for doing anything useful on a slope.

 

Thats what I mean, If this surface had of had some kind of grip (even from the roots of trees, then it would of been able to walk up but my foot slipped loads of times and so did my skinny fit husbands! I literally slid down it comeing down.

 

Claire xx

[+CluelessTwo]

 

A small anectdote:

Once I tried to climb a relative 35 degree slope. It was dirt and leaves and I didn't have too much of a hard time crawling on tree roots, despite the knee brace on my leg. I slipped and slid down about 100 or so feet before I rested against a tree.

2 weeks later someone was doing the exact same route up this hill and slipped. They slid to their death. I'm pretty sure they were a little higher up the climb than I had gone but it still goes to show the dangers in a 40 degree slope.

 

OMG I never really thought my life was on the line!! Luckily there was a fence between the bottom of the slope and the river, although admitedly I probably could of fitted between the holes in it (either that or got wedged mid air ).

 

Im pretty sure I took a photo. Will have to see if I can get it onto the computer. Although its hard to tell unless you have a perfectly level (ie spirit level level) reference point.

 

Either way, if a 1 terrain is wheel chair friendly then its beggers belief that a 1.5 would involve a 40 degree gradient. Im no rocket scientist and I am also extremely new to caching but it would take someone to climb donard or better still everest once a day for them to think that that kind of gradient was just a little more and a paved path. But I can already see that perception differs according to how fit and agile this cache owner lives at the top of a mountain and hikes to the top every day from work and twice at the weekend on the way back from tesco after doing the weekly shop.

 

Claire xx

Edited July 15, 2009 by CluelessTwo

[knowschad]

For purposes of illustration, this is a 40 degree slope

 

 

Pretty durned steep! Of course, you don't need to go straight up in most cases. You can generally switch back and forth.

[+Renegade Knight]

....

OMG I never really thought my life was on the line!! Luckily there was a fence between the bottom of the slope and the river, although admitedly I probably could of fitted between the holes in it (either that or got wedged mid air )....

 

bittsen and I aren't quite on the same page. I don't know if he's thinking of the same slope I'm thinking of when he says 40 degrees. If he's meaning 60 because he's looking at 40 measured from vertical where I'm measuring from horizontal, then it makes sence.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Either way, if a 1 terrain is wheel chair friendly then its beggers belief that a 1.5 would involve a 40 degree gradient. ...Claire xx

Folks do have a hard time judging terrain. It's best to use the clayjar system (which is linked to on the submit a cache page) and then read the descriptions when it suggests a rating. Iv'e learned that the suggestion often needs tweaked based on the actual description.

[+bittsen]

For purposes of illustration, this is a 40 degree slope

 

 

Pretty durned steep! Of course, you don't need to go straight up in most cases. You can generally switch back and forth.

 

Like this one

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...55-519d28d18058

 

It had back and forth switchbacks but still, one slip and it was going to be a very cold and wet (possibly dead) experience.

[+bittsen]

....

OMG I never really thought my life was on the line!! Luckily there was a fence between the bottom of the slope and the river, although admitedly I probably could of fitted between the holes in it (either that or got wedged mid air )....

 

bittsen and I aren't quite on the same page. I don't know if he's thinking of the same slope I'm thinking of when he says 40 degrees. If he's meaning 60 because he's looking at 40 measured from vertical where I'm measuring from horizontal, then it makes sence.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right page.

Walk/climb up 9 feet vertical and go 5 feet forward/horizontal.

 

90 degrees is straight up, 45 is 1:1

40 degrees is 5/9

[+StarBrand]

....

OMG I never really thought my life was on the line!! Luckily there was a fence between the bottom of the slope and the river, although admitedly I probably could of fitted between the holes in it (either that or got wedged mid air )....

 

bittsen and I aren't quite on the same page. I don't know if he's thinking of the same slope I'm thinking of when he says 40 degrees. If he's meaning 60 because he's looking at 40 measured from vertical where I'm measuring from horizontal, then it makes sence.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right page.

Walk/climb up 9 feet vertical and go 5 feet forward/horizontal.

 

90 degrees is straight up, 45 is 1:1

40 degrees is 5/9

Now if 45 degrees is 1:1 (1 foot up to 1 foot forward) - a 40 degree angle is going to be [at a minimum] 1 foot up to some number less than 1 up - simply because 40 is less than 45.

 

40 degrees is up .8391 feet and forward 1 foot.

[+CluelessTwo]

For purposes of illustration, this is a 40 degree slope

 

 

Pretty durned steep! Of course, you don't need to go straight up in most cases. You can generally switch back and forth.

 

Like this one

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...55-519d28d18058

 

It had back and forth switchbacks but still, one slip and it was going to be a very cold and wet (possibly dead) experience.

 

Yeah it was easily that steep and possibly just as slippery too! lol

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yeah it was easily that steep and possibly just as slippery too! lol

 

Then I would agree that that is not a 1.5 for terrain. (Assuming that to be the only way to get to it.)

You will find that a lot of cache owners do not know how to rate their cache properly. Sometimes rating a cache can be tough. Sometimes it's very subjective. Sometimes it's a guess. I've been know to mention to cachers that I disagree with their terrain rating. (The staircase makes this a 1.5, for example.) I wanted to rate one of my recent caches a 1 for terrain, but my QC department said that the cache hunter in a wheelchair would not be able to read the sign. So, it's a 1.5. You may want to mention to the cache owener that you disagree with hsi/her rating, but it probably won't do much good.

[+CluelessTwo]

Yeah it was easily that steep and possibly just as slippery too! lol

 

Then I would agree that that is not a 1.5 for terrain. (Assuming that to be the only way to get to it.)

You will find that a lot of cache owners do not know how to rate their cache properly. Sometimes rating a cache can be tough. Sometimes it's very subjective. Sometimes it's a guess. I've been know to mention to cachers that I disagree with their terrain rating. (The staircase makes this a 1.5, for example.) I wanted to rate one of my recent caches a 1 for terrain, but my QC department said that the cache hunter in a wheelchair would not be able to read the sign. So, it's a 1.5. You may want to mention to the cache owener that you disagree with hsi/her rating, but it probably won't do much good.

 

Hi Harry

 

Thanks I did mention in my found it log that this was a 1.5 only when compared to everest.lol Im new at this and I wanted to let them know I disagreed without them thinking I was teaching my granny how to suck eggs. I also wanted to make sure I was understanding the guidelines correctly and doing all I could to ensure I wouldnt take an asthma attack because of terrain issues (because Im headstrong and wont go home without having found the cache). This particular one had no othe way to it from either side, you just had to start climbing and hope for the best. lol

 

Im happy to know Im not mad and that I wont get 1.5 terrains like this often. lol

 

Thanks for your help. And thanks to all the other guys who have helped too.

 

Claire xx

[+StarBrand]

For purposes of illustration, this is a 40 degree slope

 

 

Pretty durned steep! Of course, you don't need to go straight up in most cases. You can generally switch back and forth.

Of course you realize the slope of the stairs to get those kids to the top is the same.....

[+CluelessTwo]

For purposes of illustration, this is a 40 degree slope

 

 

Pretty durned steep! Of course, you don't need to go straight up in most cases. You can generally switch back and forth.

Of course you realize the slope of the stairs to get those kids to the top is the same.....

 

Yep, Im perfectly aware of that but they are designed so as to give a foot hold. Probably the reason we have stairs in our houses instead of ramps me thinks??

Edited July 16, 2009 by CluelessTwo

[+Renegade Knight]

....

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right page.

Walk/climb up 9 feet vertical and go 5 feet forward/horizontal.

 

90 degrees is straight up, 45 is 1:1

40 degrees is 5/9

 

We agree on 90 and 45;

Somehow it's out of kilter for 40.

 

Walk/Climb a bit less than 1:1 or a bit less than 4.5 Vertical for 9 Horizontal. You are reversed (Unless you are thinking 40 from vertical where I'm thinking from horizontal). 9 Vertical for 5 Horizontal is very steep. It's the working limit of stablity for most slopes. Which is what you said, we were talking about different slops it appears.

[Skippermark]

Thats a rather subjective set of criteria, what one person can push a bike up may be diffrent for someone else who is less fit or has a medical condition.

The problem is that people often rate caches based on what they think it should be rather than a set standard.

 

Yes, what may be easy for one person may be a challenge for another, but without a standard, no one really knows what to expect when they go to a cache.

 

With a system like Clayjar system, there's no questions. If you're in great shape, a 3.5 may not be any trouble, but if someone has a medical condition, then they will know that they should stay away from 3.5s and do easier ones.

[+bittsen]

....

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right page.

Walk/climb up 9 feet vertical and go 5 feet forward/horizontal.

 

90 degrees is straight up, 45 is 1:1

40 degrees is 5/9

 

We agree on 90 and 45;

Somehow it's out of kilter for 40.

 

Walk/Climb a bit less than 1:1 or a bit less than 4.5 Vertical for 9 Horizontal. You are reversed (Unless you are thinking 40 from vertical where I'm thinking from horizontal). 9 Vertical for 5 Horizontal is very steep. It's the working limit of stablity for most slopes. Which is what you said, we were talking about different slops it appears.

 

You could think of it as 4:9 if it makes you happier

What I was saying with the 5:9 is that every 9 feet vertical, you go 5 feet horizontal. But I realize that isn't correct. perhaps 9 is the hypotenuse. Nah...

 

here is my logic. It works in my brain.

 

45 degrees is 45:90

so 40 degrees is 40:90 or 4:9 and the inverse of that is 5:9 but thats fuzzy math. You know, the math you come up with when your brain is a little fuzzy.

[knowschad]

Just out of curiosity, I think it'd be interesting if CluelessTwo would rate the cache in question using the Clayjar system ? and let us know what terrain rating they get for it.

[+Castle Mischief]

Just out of curiosity, I think it'd be interesting if CluelessTwo would rate the cache in question using the Clayjar system ? and let us know what terrain rating they get for it.

 

I think she already did, duder.

 

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

[+Renegade Knight]

....You could think of it as 4:9 if it makes you happier

What I was saying with the 5:9 is that every 9 feet vertical, you go 5 feet horizontal. But I realize that isn't correct. perhaps 9 is the hypotenuse. Nah...

 

here is my logic. It works in my brain.

 

45 degrees is 45:90

so 40 degrees is 40:90 or 4:9 and the inverse of that is 5:9 but thats fuzzy math. You know, the math you come up with when your brain is a little fuzzy.

 

Ok, now I know we were talking about the same thing.

 

This is why engineers can't talk without a pencil and paper handy. If you want to torture one ask them a technial question out of reach of either and watch them sweat.

[knowschad]

Just out of curiosity, I think it'd be interesting if CluelessTwo would rate the cache in question using the Clayjar system ? and let us know what terrain rating they get for it.

 

I think she already did, duder.

 

 

I think all this fuzzy math is making my brain fuzzy.

[+paleolith]

Despite clayjar, terrain ratings are relative to the surroundings and expectations. Caches requiring a significant hike generally are given a lower terrain rating than if they required the same effort in an urban area. An urban T3 is often a hiker's T2. There's nothing wrong with this; it expands the range of the system. You just have to be alert for it.

 

But this means that when a serious hiker puts out his/her first urban hide, the terrain may be underrated.

 

It also varies by what terrain is in the area. There's a cache in Tallahassee with a T3 rating. Follow clayjar and you can get that -- it's not on a maintained trail, requires walking through the woods over possibly rought ground -- I forget the details. In a mountainous area it would a T1.5. But I wouldn't call the rating wrong, because if you rated Tallahassee terrain by mountain standards, then Tallahassee caches would all be T1 or T1.5, possibly a few T2, which wouldn't be very useful.

 

But the cache described by the OP is definitely more than T1.5, no matter what the context.

 

Edward

[+bittsen]

Despite clayjar, terrain ratings are relative to the surroundings and expectations. Caches requiring a significant hike generally are given a lower terrain rating than if they required the same effort in an urban area. An urban T3 is often a hiker's T2. There's nothing wrong with this; it expands the range of the system. You just have to be alert for it.

 

But this means that when a serious hiker puts out his/her first urban hide, the terrain may be underrated.

 

It also varies by what terrain is in the area. There's a cache in Tallahassee with a T3 rating. Follow clayjar and you can get that -- it's not on a maintained trail, requires walking through the woods over possibly rought ground -- I forget the details. In a mountainous area it would a T1.5. But I wouldn't call the rating wrong, because if you rated Tallahassee terrain by mountain standards, then Tallahassee caches would all be T1 or T1.5, possibly a few T2, which wouldn't be very useful.

 

But the cache described by the OP is definitely more than T1.5, no matter what the context.

 

Edward

 

Now now.... Don't underestimate Florida. With swamps and alligators I am sure someone could come up with a higher terrain rating. Some places might even require a boat (in fact I'm sure there are a few that require one) which automagically makes it a 5.

[knowschad]

Despite clayjar, terrain ratings are relative to the surroundings and expectations. Caches requiring a significant hike generally are given a lower terrain rating than if they required the same effort in an urban area. An urban T3 is often a hiker's T2.

 

Not sure I agree with you. The questions that Clayjar asks, and the possible answers to select from, I think, pretty much removes, or at least significantly reduces subjectivity. And if there's any doubt to what the answers mean, there is the italicized detailed explaination

[+paleolith]

Now now.... Don't underestimate Florida. With swamps and alligators I am sure someone could come up with a higher terrain rating. Some places might even require a boat (in fact I'm sure there are a few that require one) which automagically makes it a 5.

True for Florida in general. I observe that the relativity takes a more local scope, so I was limiting my scope to Tallahassee.

 

I exclude T5 from this kind of discussion, since T5 is conventionally a code for special equipment. If we could turn the clock back and get a "special equipment required" attribute consistently applied to caches requiring it, then we could eliminate the special meaning of T5. As it is, of course, T5 definitely does NOT imply "more difficult than T4.5". But there are certainly places where the boating or swamping would merit an honest T4 even without the special equipment code. And that's even though Tate's Hell has been drained ...

 

Not sure I agree with you. The questions that Clayjar asks, and the possible answers to select from, I think, pretty much removes, or at least significantly reduces subjectivity. And if there's any doubt to what the answers mean, there is the italicized detailed explaination

My main point was not the extent to which clayjar's system can be interpreted, but the variation and relativity which cache hiders actually apply to the terrain rating. How many hiders have even looked at clayjar, anyway? Probably 3/4 just give their cache a rating based on others in the area.

 

But clayjar's system has some ambiguities. The most ambiguous is the use of "steep". The cache I referred to would be "some elevation changes" in Florida (it requires possibly 30-40' of elevation gain); it would be considered basically level in many places. That cache does indeed rate a T3 on clayjar based on: more than 1/2 mile hike (assuming this means round trip, on which point clayjar is silent), other trail types (part is non-trail across mowed grass, part is social trail in the woods), some light overgrowth, and some elevation changes. Yet there's no question that this would be a T2 in the SoCal mountains and many other places, and maybe a T1.5. Calling it a T3 in SoCal would get lots of laughs. Yet T3 is reasonable in Tallahassee, and clayjar supports it.

 

Edward

[+welch]

Hi Ya

 

Upon going through the checklist the terrain is rated as a 4. You could not ride a bike up it, not push a bike up it, and it will require use of hands and bottom.

 

Once a cache is published is there any way of changing the terrain settings though?

 

Claire xx

??? Maybe I misunderstand but a 40 degree slope really doesn't sound that bad to me. What exactly would prevent you from pushing (or even riding) a bike up it??

Do you have a photo?

 

Thats a rather subjective set of criteria, what one person can push a bike up may be diffrent for someone else who is less fit or has a medical condition.

 

And what one person considers light overgrowth, might be 'pretty overgrown' or 'heavy' for other people.

 

Of course there is also the last line for rating the trail "How is the the most difficult part of the cache? If the cache is within a few feet of a trail, don't worry about the last few feet." Would people take this to mean not to the include the last say 5 feet? or last 50 feet?

[+Harry Dolphin]

Despite clayjar, terrain ratings are relative to the surroundings and expectations. Caches requiring a significant hike generally are given a lower terrain rating than if they required the same effort in an urban area. An urban T3 is often a hiker's T2.

 

Not sure I agree with you. The questions that Clayjar asks, and the possible answers to select from, I think, pretty much removes, or at least significantly reduces subjectivity. And if there's any doubt to what the answers mean, there is the italicized detailed explaination

 

I find the guidelines to be very subjective. My 3.5 in New Jersey is far less strenuous than my brother's 3.5 in Nevada. But, in Nevada, there is no greenbriar or mountain laurel to bushwhack through. I just did the 4.5 cache, .15 mile north of my 3.5 Not only do you have to bushwhack through the mountain laurel, scrub pine, and greenbriar, but you also have to be careful of the bear, and not falling off the 50' cliffs. I'm not going to argue with his rating. Then compare them to a 3.5 in other states. Dunno. I find a lot of subjectivity.