Have a new idea for an unstealable cache.

4.8k · July 14, 2009

My first hide was stolen in the first couple days. My fault, I'm sure because it was easy enough to grab. It was just a camo'd tupperware container.

I was thinking of ways to make it less likely to disappear and just thought of something.

I have a 2 foot tall ammo can that I was planning as a hide but couldn't figure out how to make it secure since ammo cans are being stolen regularly. I've heard of chains being cut so I didn't want to go that route.

So, here is the idea. I am thinking if I fill it 3/4 full of concrete, it would be much less likely to walk away. It wold only weigh about 40 or 50 pounds full of concrete. I figure if someone wants a concrete filled ammo can, they would be welcome to it at that point since they would have to carry it down the trail. The leftover space would be about the same as a standard ammo can.

The great thing is these ammo cans are readily available at my local army surplus store.

What do you think?

July 14, 2009

I've seen an "unstealable" ammo box chained to a tree. After seeing (and smelling) what the thwarted cache thief did to the cache, I'm inclined to believe that those who are motivated to do injustices to a cache will have their way, no matter what.

3k · July 14, 2009

Far easier to bolt it down to something....maybe put a combination shackle as well

1.2k · July 14, 2009

Don't forget that you'd have to lug that thing "UP" the trail! But it should, at least, improve the security quite a bit!

1k · July 14, 2009

I was thinking of ways to make it less likely to disappear and just thought of something.I have a 2 foot tall ammo can that I was planning as a hide but couldn't figure out how to make it secure since ammo cans are being stolen regularly. I've heard of chains being cut so I didn't want to go that route.

I've got a hide that's one of those tall ammo cans and I just bought a cheap-o bicycle lock and carried it into the woods and locked it to a tree. Don't know how many people go for long hikes in the woods with bolt cutters but if they're that determined I'd imagine they would probably consider cutting the tree down, too

July 14, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

I like the concrete idea, and have thought about using it for my Where the Wild Things Are cache that I'm cookin' up. Pour a small footing/foundation and insert the 6 or 7 character "action figures" so when the 'crete sets, nobody is gonna try to steal the characters......

4.2k · July 14, 2009

Without giving away the details, what kind of location was your stolen hide in? Often the location and difficulty of the hide will determine how quickly the cache is muggled.

4.8k · July 14, 2009

Without giving away the details, what kind of location was your stolen hide in? Often the location and difficulty of the hide will determine how quickly the cache is muggled.

Wooded area, too close to the trail.

Next one will be the same wooded area but a bit further off the trail and a bit more hidden AND camo'd.

7.2k · July 14, 2009

Security through obscurity.

The best security for a cache is it not being found to begin with.

3.5k · July 14, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

I like the concrete idea, and have thought about using it for my Where the Wild Things Are cache that I'm cookin' up. Pour a small footing/foundation and insert the 6 or 7 character "action figures" so when the 'crete sets, nobody is gonna try to steal the characters......

Where is it that you're pouring this "foundation"? In a whole in the ground? Hopefully not one that you made.

1k · July 14, 2009

I like the concrete idea, and have thought about using it for my Where the Wild Things Are cache that I'm cookin' up. Pour a small footing/foundation and insert the 6 or 7 character "action figures" so when the 'crete sets, nobody is gonna try to steal the characters......

Here in the Tampa area, someone stole a bronze bull statue from in front of a high school. Might not seem like much until you find out the statue weighs in at over 400-lbs. A little plop of concrete won't stop someone intent on removing or damaging. And as was stated in a previous post here, if they have bad intent and they can't steal it, they will find something to do to it....

Where the Wild Things Are.... my son's absolute favorite #1 book when he was young :lol:

18.9k · July 14, 2009

Some have said that "Geocaching is the art of hiding things in plain sight". While not always true - that saying does offer some clues how to secure a cache - hide it so well that nobody looking at it thinks of taking it. Camo it. Or find a location that will offer enough cover so that is unlikely to be found by non-cachers.

1k · July 14, 2009

Some have said that "Geocaching is the art of hiding things in plain sight". While not always true - that saying does offer some clues how to secure a cache - hide it so well that nobody looking at it thinks of taking it. Camo it. Or find a location that will offer enough cover so that is unlikely to be found by non-cachers.

Have a few people send me pictures of them taking friends to find caches and really like the pictures they take of stumped cachers within inches of the cache and don't even know it.

24.7k · July 14, 2009

...The best security for a cache is it not being found to begin with.

Exactly.

July 15, 2009

Security through obscurity.

The best security for a cache is it not being found to begin with.

Not being placed to begin with might be more accurate. There is no such thing as an unstealable cache

7.2k · July 15, 2009

Security through obscurity.

The best security for a cache is it not being found to begin with.

Not being placed to begin with might be more accurate. There is no such thing as an unstealable cache

Yes, there is no such thing as an unstealable cache, but I suppose you miss the point in my statement. If no one but a cacher knows the cache is there, they won't know there is something there to take. The harder it is for a cacher to find, then the more motivated a maggot has to be to take the cache.

Here's the thing. We've not had that much of a problem with folks taking caches. Why? We hide them. As soon as we try to get tricky and, say, put them up a tree where it can be seen from distance--even in an area where you'd not think has many visitors--it goes bye-bye.

We've got one cache that if you look real hard you can see it from the trail. It's about a 100' off the trail in the fork of a tree about 3' off the ground. It's an ammo can with painted camo.

I think the biggest problem I have with our caches is migration of the cache itself or dry-rot of the materials from which we created the stages.

July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

I like the concrete idea, and have thought about using it for my Where the Wild Things Are cache that I'm cookin' up. Pour a small footing/foundation and insert the 6 or 7 character "action figures" so when the 'crete sets, nobody is gonna try to steal the characters......

Where is it that you're pouring this "foundation"? In a whole in the ground? Hopefully not one that you made.

Mostly over the existing flow of the ground, it's really gonna be just so people don't walk off w/ the 7" Wild Thing characters..... I'll put the characters in a thin layer of concrete, lightly cover the white concrete w/ dirt and put the cache either nearby or in the middle of the dancing characters... Something like that....

No worries, I won't be digging in the dirt (to quote Peter Gabriel), and won't be messing w/ the wildlife in the area either....

July 15, 2009

I like the concrete idea, and have thought about using it for my Where the Wild Things Are cache that I'm cookin' up. Pour a small footing/foundation and insert the 6 or 7 character "action figures" so when the 'crete sets, nobody is gonna try to steal the characters......
Here in the Tampa area, someone stole a bronze bull statue from in front of a high school. Might not seem like much until you find out the statue weighs in at over 400-lbs. A little plop of concrete won't stop someone intent on removing or damaging. And as was stated in a previous post here, if they have bad intent and they can't steal it, they will find something to do to it....

Where the Wild Things Are.... my son's absolute favorite #1 book when he was young

Yeah... good point.... I guess the only way I can see if it'll work, is to try it.... I'll put this cache out in the forest, so HOPEFULLY nobody will want to carry a small amount of concrete a football fields length back to their car......

or.... maybe I'll put security cameras up to watch it 24/7!!!!!!!!!! kidding......

July 15, 2009

I think the biggest problem I have with our caches is migration of the cache itself or dry-rot of the materials from which we created the stages.

Cache migration, happens every time. Even when it goes in a specific spot... Sometimes it gets unreal.

July 15, 2009

I've seen an "unstealable" ammo box chained to a tree. After seeing (and smelling) what the thwarted cache thief did to the cache, I'm inclined to believe that those who are motivated to do injustices to a cache will have their way, no matter what.

Too True! If they can't steal it, They'll destroy it or vandalize it just for their pleasure, and to displease anyone else. Someone took the log book out of one of mine, (and that cache was recently completely stolen), and put a USED Dog clean-up bag (used as in Full) inside.. took a can of Lysol to get rid of the stench.

July 15, 2009

I've seen an "unstealable" ammo box chained to a tree. After seeing (and smelling) what the thwarted cache thief did to the cache, I'm inclined to believe that those who are motivated to do injustices to a cache will have their way, no matter what.

Too True! If they can't steal it, They'll destroy it or vandalize it just for their pleasure, and to displease anyone else. Someone took the log book out of one of mine, (and that cache was recently completely stolen), and put a USED Dog clean-up bag (used as in Full) inside.. took a can of Lysol to get rid of the stench.

some people are just rude, and there's no getting around it..... some people just want to vandalize for "fun", and without being there to stop them, they just mess w/ the caches.....

3.8k · July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

I contend that while filling the ammocan with concrete would improve security, it would NOT make your cache unstealable. It would certainly make it sink better in the bottom of that pond over there.

July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as something that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

I contend that while filling the ammocan with concrete would improve security, it would NOT make your cache unstealable. It would certainly make it sink better in the bottom of that pond over there.

My point was just that there are people in the world who are big on the environment, and the last thing I wanna hear is some environmental group complaining about the damaging of any cache location.....

I'm of the mentality, leave it as you found it (as best you can)..... that's all I was saying.....

July 15, 2009

********** oops, duplicate post, sorry ************

Edited July 15, 2009 by GreenLantern5000

4.2k · July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

Regardless, it would be against the guidelines if you in some way damaged the tree during the placement of the cache. Are you saying that's okay?

3.8k · July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

I contend that while filling the ammocan with concrete would improve security, it would NOT make your cache unstealable. It would certainly make it sink better in the bottom of that pond over there.

My point was just that there are people in the world who are big on the environment, and the last thing I wanna hear is some environmental group complaining about the damaging of any cache location.....

I'm of the mentality, leave it as you found it (as best you can)..... that's all I was saying.....

That's a good philosphy to have. I thought there was something deeper and more covert in your tree comment. The way I see it is that there's a difference between conservationism and environmentalism. Conservationism is when you truly want to protect our earth but only at a reasonable cost, and you actually practice what you preach. Environmentalism is a phoney and creepy religion-like movement that has NOTHING to do with saving our earth. Off topic rant over. My bad.

July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

I contend that while filling the ammocan with concrete would improve security, it would NOT make your cache unstealable. It would certainly make it sink better in the bottom of that pond over there.

My point was just that there are people in the world who are big on the environment, and the last thing I wanna hear is some environmental group complaining about the damaging of any cache location.....

I'm of the mentality, leave it as you found it (as best you can)..... that's all I was saying.....

That's a good philosphy to have. I thought there was something deeper and more covert in your tree comment. The way I see it is that there's a difference between conservationism and environmentalism. Conservationism is when you truly want to protect our earth but only at a reasonable cost, and you actually practice what you preach. Environmentalism is a phoney and creepy religion-like movement that has NOTHING to do with saving our earth. Off topic rant over. My bad.

Sounds like we're on the same page. I thought when I originally posted that comment, that I might get a comment like yours, LOL, which is funny, cuz I feel the same way, obviously I'm not out to destroy anything, trees or otherwise, but you're exactly right about the difference between environmentalism and conservatism.

July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

Regardless, it would be against the guidelines if you in some way damaged the tree during the placement of the cache. Are you saying that's okay?

I don't think he was saying that at all. He thought I meant "don't touch anything, don't destroy the environment", we're good now.

4.2k · July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

Regardless, it would be against the guidelines if you in some way damaged the tree during the placement of the cache. Are you saying that's okay?

I don't think he was saying that at all. He thought I meant "don't touch anything, don't destroy the environment", we're good now.

I see that the two of you are okay. But I still bristle at the idea that because "there's no shortage of trees" that it might be okay to damage one in the placement of the cache. Any damage of property, public or private, is clearly outlined as a no-no in the guidelines. If I read the discussion right, this would be in a public park...?

3.8k · July 15, 2009

Gotta be careful about damaging the tree too, we don't want geocaching to be looked at by muggles as somehting that is causing harm to things.... know what I mean Vern?

OMG... there's so much I could do with this one... There's no shortage of trees dude and most grown trees are not delicate little creatures.

Regardless, it would be against the guidelines if you in some way damaged the tree during the placement of the cache. Are you saying that's okay?

I don't think he was saying that at all. He thought I meant "don't touch anything, don't destroy the environment", we're good now.

I see that the two of you are okay. But I still bristle at the idea that because "there's no shortage of trees" that it might be okay to damage one in the placement of the cache. Any damage of property, public or private, is clearly outlined as a no-no in the guidelines. If I read the discussion right, this would be in a public park...?

Oh for gosh sakes. You high post count people usually research people who post. You must have seen I have nearly 3000 finds and 115 or so hides. I think I know the guidelines by now. Does the guidelines thing have to be a standard reponse ALL THE TIME? Ok, irritation gone.

4.2k · July 15, 2009

I see that the two of you are okay. But I still bristle at the idea that because "there's no shortage of trees" that it might be okay to damage one in the placement of the cache. Any damage of property, public or private, is clearly outlined as a no-no in the guidelines. If I read the discussion right, this would be in a public park...?

Oh for gosh sakes. You high post count people usually research people who post. You must have seen I have nearly 3000 finds and 115 or so hides. I think I know the guidelines by now. Does the guidelines thing have to be a standard reponse ALL THE TIME? Ok, irritation gone.

Okay, let's pretend it's not in the guidelines. Let's remove that from the equation.

Do you think it's appropriate to damage a tree on public land because there's a forest of them? Do you think that will fly with the land manager?

Frankly, if you're suggesting that as promotable behavior, then you've learned very little in your 3000 finds.

4.8k · July 16, 2009

The concrete is in the ammo can.

I sure hope nobody wants to carry an 80 pound ammo can down the trail. I know I am not looking forward to carrying it to place it.

I even scribed "geocache" into the concrete before it set.

The concrete serves a dual purpose too. Since it's a flood plain, the chances of it floating away are pretty slim.

2.4k · July 16, 2009

On the way in, but a safe distance from the cache...how about a sign saying "You are entering an area that is under video surveillance?"

4.8k · July 16, 2009

On the way in, but a safe distance from the cache...how about a sign saying "You are entering an area that is under video surveillance?"

I thought about putting that message right on the can!

~LOL~

Not a bad idea though. If I had more money.....I would add the cameras and put in the cache page that there is a camera.

Good thing for society that I'm broke.

July 16, 2009

is there a metal fence or anything near by? If so go to vista print and get magnetic signs made. then get a fish bowl and spray it black from the inside and mount it to look like the ones inside shops. lol

Claire xx

4.7k · July 16, 2009

i know of one cache maggot who carries a bolt cutter and does not mind heavy containers, surveillance cameras, or long hikes. s/he has a premium account and steals at least one cache a week, sometimes traveling a number of miles to do so.

what the people in THAT area have learned is that there's no such thing as an unstealable cache.

4.8k · July 16, 2009

i know of one cache maggot who carries a bolt cutter and does not mind heavy containers, surveillance cameras, or long hikes. s/he has a premium account and steals at least one cache a week, sometimes traveling a number of miles to do so.

what the people in THAT area have learned is that there's no such thing as an unstealable cache.

Well, I know there is no such thing as an unstealable cache but really I just want to make it a PIA to do so.

Has anyone ever attempted to catch the cache thief? Does anyone know the motivation for the thief?

July 16, 2009

i know of one cache maggot who carries a bolt cutter and does not mind heavy containers, surveillance cameras, or long hikes. s/he has a premium account and steals at least one cache a week, sometimes traveling a number of miles to do so.

what the people in THAT area have learned is that there's no such thing as an unstealable cache.

It seems weird someone would sign to a premium account to theive caches. unless of course they are simply moving them to a venue of their choice and calling them their own. If thats the case they should be tracable shouldnt they? You should put a tracking device in a cache container (if its possible or even financially viable to get hold of one), so that they can be caught. I was of the belief that if someone went to the bother of signing up and getting the equipment that they wouldnt be motivated to steal or vandalise caches and that most cache crime was by opportunistic muggles who had seen a cacher rehide or find or just stumbled on the cache. I guess I must be wrong.

Claire xx

4.8k · July 16, 2009

i know of one cache maggot who carries a bolt cutter and does not mind heavy containers, surveillance cameras, or long hikes. s/he has a premium account and steals at least one cache a week, sometimes traveling a number of miles to do so.

what the people in THAT area have learned is that there's no such thing as an unstealable cache.

It seems weird someone would sign to a premium account to theive caches. unless of course they are simply moving them to a venue of their choice and calling them their own. If thats the case they should be tracable shouldnt they? You should put a tracking device in a cache container (if its possible or even financially viable to get hold of one), so that they can be caught. I was of the belief that if someone went to the bother of signing up and getting the equipment that they wouldnt be motivated to steal or vandalise caches and that most cache crime was by opportunistic muggles who had seen a cacher rehide or find or just stumbled on the cache. I guess I must be wrong.

Claire xx

You know what I have found out over the years? People can slide into all kinds of depravity. A small fee of $30 just to screw with other people fun is a small price to pay to some people.

Personally, I hope Karma gets them and if I had the resources, I would become Karma but the mere fact that these degenerates exist is enough to know that the depths could be deeper.

As I age, my shock threshold becomes higher and higher.

Lets face it. We have all seen some of the disgusting pictures on the internet and wondered what sick person could post them, but then we realize that some sicko actually performed to get that picture taken, and even beyond that is the sicko that thought it would be a good idea to photograph it. And just when we think that has to be the depths of depravity, along comes something else.

Human nature doesn't shock me anymore.

July 16, 2009

I guess Im just a niave innocent. Im the kind of person who watch slugs kill so many plants in my garden and didnt want to stoop to using slug pellets, tried everything until I lost it one day and scattered pellets all over the flower bed (with flowers on last legs) then sent my hubby out to bury the dead slugs because I didnt want to have to deal with seeing them dead as I would of felt guilty. I could/would never mess with anyones property! So it does shock me every time someone else does!!

Claire xx

4.8k · July 16, 2009

I guess Im just a niave innocent. Im the kind of person who watch slugs kill so many plants in my garden and didnt want to stoop to using slug pellets, tried everything until I lost it one day and scattered pellets all over the flower bed (with flowers on last legs) then sent my hubby out to bury the dead slugs because I didnt want to have to deal with seeing them dead as I would of felt guilty. I could/would never mess with anyones property! So it does shock me every time someone else does!!

Claire xx

You and me both, sister!

7.2k · July 16, 2009

Has anyone ever attempted to catch the cache thief?

Cache thieves have been around since before I joined. (<-look left.) A motivated cache thief is virtually unstoppable.

Good luck in your arms race.

1.1k · July 16, 2009

Nothing's idiot-proof for a sufficiently resourceful idiot.

4.7k · July 16, 2009

Has anyone ever attempted to catch the cache thief?

Cache thieves have been around since before I joined. (<-look left.) A motivated cache thief is virtually unstoppable.

Good luck in your arms race.

it's not my arms race. it's an area i cache in from time to time, and the likelihood that a cache will be gone sure puts a different tone on things.

there have been some attempts to catch the thief, but since i know about them, i can't really share.

that cache community has kind of a besieged feeling to it, and it is their practice not to make any public mention of the maggot. they have not received any communication of any kind from him/her, and they've never seen their caches reappear anywhere.

they just quietly go about their business.

3.8k · July 16, 2009

I see that the two of you are okay. But I still bristle at the idea that because "there's no shortage of trees" that it might be okay to damage one in the placement of the cache. Any damage of property, public or private, is clearly outlined as a no-no in the guidelines. If I read the discussion right, this would be in a public park...?

Oh for gosh sakes. You high post count people usually research people who post. You must have seen I have nearly 3000 finds and 115 or so hides. I think I know the guidelines by now. Does the guidelines thing have to be a standard reponse ALL THE TIME? Ok, irritation gone.

Okay, let's pretend it's not in the guidelines. Let's remove that from the equation.

Do you think it's appropriate to damage a tree on public land because there's a forest of them? Do you think that will fly with the land manager?

Frankly, if you're suggesting that as promotable behavior, then you've learned very little in your 3000 finds.

You're finding some message in my post that just isn't there. Go cache dude. And stop overreacting.

4.2k · July 16, 2009

I see that the two of you are okay. But I still bristle at the idea that because "there's no shortage of trees" that it might be okay to damage one in the placement of the cache. Any damage of property, public or private, is clearly outlined as a no-no in the guidelines. If I read the discussion right, this would be in a public park...?

Oh for gosh sakes. You high post count people usually research people who post. You must have seen I have nearly 3000 finds and 115 or so hides. I think I know the guidelines by now. Does the guidelines thing have to be a standard reponse ALL THE TIME? Ok, irritation gone.

Okay, let's pretend it's not in the guidelines. Let's remove that from the equation.

Do you think it's appropriate to damage a tree on public land because there's a forest of them? Do you think that will fly with the land manager?

Frankly, if you're suggesting that as promotable behavior, then you've learned very little in your 3000 finds.

You're finding some message in my post that just isn't there. Go cache dude. And stop overreacting.

I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you about what you said and what I said. It's pretty clear to me that you're more into stirring the pot than any real discussion. Have fun with that.

19k · July 16, 2009

Well, I know there is no such thing as an unstealable cache but really I just want to make it a PIA to do so.

Actually, in the case of flask's thief, I'd change that to read:

Well, I know there is no such thing as an unstealable cache but really I just want to make it a challenge to do so.

Have a new idea for an unstealable cache.

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation