Cheaters...

[+Drudog]

Anyone know of someone who has logged "BUNCHES" of find when they really have not found them? There is a user "Dandylyon" who has logged finds and I have even checked logs and thsi person has never signed.

 

What needs to be done? As a Owner of Caches - occasionally check your logs and verify for Cheaters.

 

THEN - DELETE those who you find cheating...

[+GPS-JUNKIES]

makes perfect sense!

[Dinoprophet]

From one find:

"I have been doing this with the family for a while under ISW but this is the first time I have my own personal account. Really nice day trip with a whole group. We saw a Bobcat and 3 snakes. TFTC!"

 

Make of that what you will. It may be someone backlogging old finds with a new account.

[+Drudog]

True... Asking "what is the deal?" would be ideal...

[+infiniteMPG]

Anyone know of someone who has logged "BUNCHES" of find when they really have not found them? There is a user "Dandylyon" who has logged finds and I have even checked logs and thsi person has never signed.

NO WAY!!!

 

What needs to be done? As a Owner of Caches - occasionally check your logs and verify for Cheaters. THEN - DELETE those who you find cheating...

This debate has gone on endless in the forums.... you're about to hear the points like the following :

 

- How often will you check on caches? After each log entry?

- What if someone signed the wrong place or you can't make out who all signed the log?

- What if someone used a signature sticker and the sticker fell off the log sheet?

- Is it cheating if someone signed everyone's name for the whole group caching together?

- What if someone found the cache but signed people's names in the log that weren't there?

- What if someone removed some log entries while they were there or a page fell out of the book?

- How do you validate signatures in a wet/damaged log book?

- Who does it hurt if people sign bogus log entries?

 

There are people (like me) who own hundreds of hides some of which are long paddles or hikes and we work full time and get hundreds upon hundreds of logs a week. Let;s just imagine there is one hide you need to check on for some reason, DNF's or something. This is me :

 

- PQ and load coords

- Travel to GZ

- Find cache

- Check that contents are intact and not damaged

- Re-hide and camo appropriately

- Done

 

Now how does that happen when you want to check signatures :

 

- PQ and load coords

- Print out log sheets (you can only download a limited number of logs with a PQ)

- Travel to GZ

- Find cache

- Check that contents are intact and not damaged

- Open log book and start comparing signatures and dates to log entries (and trust me this isn't easy as many people do not sign very legibly). Validate all signatures and then investigate each questionable signature.

- Re-hide and camo appropriately

- Return home.

- Contact any cacher that may be questionable if they actually signed it or maybe you couldn't find or validate for some reason (damaged book, signed on wrong page, illegible, etc).

- Try to validate they found the cache by some other means.

- If you can't validate signature and find delete log entry and deal with a ticked off cacher if you delete someone's log and they actually DID find it.

- Done

Doesn't sound like fun to me and this is supposed to be fun. If you have something throw up a red flag then check. Other then that just have fun. If you have fun being the log police then by all means, go for it.

[+StarBrand]

A polite email is usually the first order of business to see if you can clear up any misunderstandings or mistaken logs. Then if you do not get a satisfactory answer, feel free to delete the log. The guidelines actually state that owners should delete "bogus" logs - so you are fulfilling the gudelines by doing so.

[+Renegade Knight]

Anyone know of someone who has logged "BUNCHES" of find when they really have not found them? There is a user "Dandylyon" who has logged finds and I have even checked logs and thsi person has never signed.

 

What needs to be done? As a Owner of Caches - occasionally check your logs and verify for Cheaters.

 

THEN - DELETE those who you find cheating...

 

That sums it up.

 

If I have reason to think a find is fake I'll look into it. Otherwise live and let live. After all I only have so much time.

[+sbell111]

Anyone know of someone who has logged "BUNCHES" of find when they really have not found them? There is a user "Dandylyon" who has logged finds and I have even checked logs and thsi person has never signed.

 

What needs to be done? As a Owner of Caches - occasionally check your logs and verify for Cheaters.

 

THEN - DELETE those who you find cheating...

This person appears to have found lots of caches with her family prior to creating her own account. She then went back and logged the ones that she had previously found with her family. I don't understand why you would call this behavior cheating or want to delete her logs.

 

If anything, this thread is the perfect example of why it's a bad idea to call people out in the forums.

[+infiniteMPG]

If anything, this thread is the perfect example of why it's a bad idea to call people out in the forums.

Good point... step one for questionable log entires should probably be to contact the person logging them. I'd bet in most situations there's a good explanation. Then again, other then "punish the cheaters and protect the sanctity of the game", what is to be gained??? Not like they're gonna win something when they get away with cheating

 

If it's blatant and it bothers someone then go for it. Then again, the GC rules state an owner should delete any logs that "appear" to be bogus... does that mean if a log entry looks bogus but they really did find it we should delete it? <jk>

 

July 14 by somecachername (1234 found)

Jumped from a commercial airliner after discovering the person beside me had swine flu. Managed to snag a small blanket on the way out the door and constructed a makeshift parachute. As I was about to touchdown a strong updraft blew me into this large oak tree. As I slid down the branches towards the river, I managed to stop my fall by grabbing something hanging from the tree, which turned out to be the cache container. I quickly signed the log with invisible ink as to not disclose my identity, dropped into the river and swam my way home. TNL1M$

[+PorscheSpyder]

Could be that they are the type that find the caches, but don't sign the log, though that is HIGHLY unlikely.

[+ArcherDragoon]

If anything, this thread is the perfect example of why it's a bad idea to call people out in the forums.

Good point... step one for questionable log entires should probably be to contact the person logging them. I'd bet in most situations there's a good explanation. Then again, other then "punish the cheaters and protect the sanctity of the game", what is to be gained??? Not like they're gonna win something when they get away with cheating

 

If it's blatant and it bothers someone then go for it. Then again, the GC rules state an owner should delete any logs that "appear" to be bogus... does that mean if a log entry looks bogus but they really did find it we should delete it? <jk>

 

July 14 by somecachername (1234 found)

Jumped from a commercial airliner after discovering the person beside me had swine flu. Managed to snag a small blanket on the way out the door and constructed a makeshift parachute. As I was about to touchdown a strong updraft blew me into this large oak tree. As I slid down the branches towards the river, I managed to stop my fall by grabbing something hanging from the tree, which turned out to be the cache container. I quickly signed the log with invisible ink as to not disclose my identity, dropped into the river and swam my way home. TNL1M$

I would love logs like that on my caches!!! Creative!!!

[+Chrysalides]

I would love logs like that on my caches!!! Creative!!!

Be careful what you wish for. I see it getting boring really fast.

 

(no, I don't intend to write funny logs in your cache)

[+Woodstramp]

Drudog,

 

For some reason, alien to me, folks like to mark up achievements that they didn't earn. Personally, every cache I've found was found with no help at all. I've even had cache owners offer help and declined. That is just the way I play this game.

 

I've seen "liar logs' on some of my cache pages and thought to delete them. But this is just a game after all. Life is tough enough without getting gunched up.

[Team CDCB]

Doesn't sound like fun to me and this is supposed to be fun. If you have something throw up a red flag then check. Other then that just have fun. If you have fun being the log police then by all means, go for it.

This, to me, is a winner.

[+TeamTardis]

Now I have switched from Boyscout64 to TeamTardis and I just transfered all my finds to the new account. Should I go to each one and write Team Tardis to each one so I am not labeled a cheater?

[+Tavisman]

Now I have switched from Boyscout64 to TeamTardis and I just transfered all my finds to the new account. Should I go to each one and write Team Tardis to each one so I am not labeled a cheater?

...or should you edit the on-line logs and write 'signed as Boyscout64'?

[+Team Veverca]

I know a couple that went on a few geocaching trips with us to see if they like it. They did like it any mad an account but they didn't sign the log for those finds.

So if someone deletes a log he should at least ask if the person found the cache (maybe the person signed under a different name ->I changed our account name).

 

Just my opinion

[+power69]

Anyone know of someone who has logged "BUNCHES" of find when they really have not found them? There is a user "Dandylyon" who has logged finds and I have even checked logs and thsi person has never signed.

 

What needs to be done? As a Owner of Caches - occasionally check your logs and verify for Cheaters.

 

THEN - DELETE those who you find cheating...

The cheaters are only hurting others specially when they're logging muggled caches making others waste time on a cache thats not there.

[+Unkle Fester]

July 14 by somecachername (1234 found)

Jumped from a commercial airliner after discovering the person beside me had swine flu. Managed to snag a small blanket on the way out the door and constructed a makeshift parachute. As I was about to touchdown a strong updraft blew me into this large oak tree. As I slid down the branches towards the river, I managed to stop my fall by grabbing something hanging from the tree, which turned out to be the cache container. I quickly signed the log with invisible ink as to not disclose my identity, dropped into the river and swam my way home. TNL1M$

THis happened to you too? Man, I thought I was the only one (but it was a Maple Tree).

[+Unkle Fester]

Seriously though, I've had people not sign logs, in one case, a lot of logs. Several (about a dozen) cachers wanted me to delete their finds. So I contacted this guy and I asked him about several of my caches and the finds. Although I disagree with his not signing the log for not having a pen (I go through about 1 pen in ten caches - keep a box in the truck), he could describe several of the more difficult hides and what the containers were - unique containers.

 

Being satisfied he found them I left them alone, one of the things that drove people nuts was he logged 100 finds in a day, but that was because he logged several days caching without changing the dates. Clerical lazyness is not a valid reason to delete.

 

Now, this cacher in question has an alter ego that does a lot for the caching community out here and he and I are now friends even though I disagree with his caching style. The other day we were talking and he was telling me about going down to another area while on vacation and finding several caches but again, not having a pen to sign. The CO deleted his logs even though he could describe every hide and container.

 

Was that CO in the right? Absolutly. But I think - and this is my personal opinion (insert flaming here) - that part of the equation is how much of a jerk do you want to be? As I see things, the CO is in his right if he believes it's a bogus log. The CO is in his right if the physical log book is not signed. The CO is in the right if he feels cheating is involved. But I think we do have a responsability to be reasonable. Like has been said, I'm not going to run off to check every time a find is logged to verify.

 

I had a CO contact me about a find, stating that since the cache was muggled within days of my visit, (there was a DNF the log before) that the cache was never there and therefor a bogus log. I looked at my log, then checked the map and satellite and sent them a note of where and what I found. Problem solved. The CO apologized for the accusation. No hard feelings here - they are within their right to question a log if they cannot verify the signature.

 

What chaps my backside is the cache that has 3 DNF's, someone from out of the area logs a find "what a tough hide" and then there are 3 more DNF's before the CO marks it missing. When you look at it, the person with the find has found no other caches in the area even though they would have driven past 30 - 50 other caches to get to the one. It's not that the cache was particularly outstanding, just no way to verify a signature. To top it off, when confronted, the person cannot remember the find - yet they drove so far out of their way to get it...

 

Ooops, Soap Box, sorry. Stepping down now

 

(Edit: Spelling)

Edited July 15, 2009 by Unkle Fester

[+TeamTardis]

Just to be safe I went to each log and signed "'signed as Boyscout64" to it.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Now I have switched from Boyscout64 to TeamTardis and I just transfered all my finds to the new account. Should I go to each one and write Team Tardis to each one so I am not labeled a cheater?

 

I wonder how many caches by the person that currently uses Alamogul (with 34483 finds credited to that account) as a user id were logged as TeamAlamo. I believe it was changed when he was well past 30,000 finds.

[+Chrysalides]

Just to be safe I went to each log and signed "'signed as Boyscout64" to it.

When you changed your account, you created this one instead of asking Groundspeak to change the account name?

 

Only reason I pointed it out is because TeamTardis was created on July 10 and logged some caches, in some cases archived ones, in 2008. That's usually a red flag for the thread subject.

[+Harry Dolphin]

We've had a couple of drive by cachers in the area. One logged thirty caches a day. It struck me odd that anyone would log two particular of my caches in one day. I suppose it could be done. They are only two miles apart, but the driving time is probably close to an hour. And logged 28 other caches that day! Check the caches, and Surprise! No signature! Several other local cachers checked, and found no signatures. My sister checked her cache a few hundred miles away. No signature. Yes! A megacheater! All of his logs have been deleted.

Another logged fifteen caches in a major snowstorm that basically closed down the state. Including one a mile down an unmaintainer road. And two on the interstate that would have required a ten mile round trip. One eastbound, the other westbound. That one is curious, and is still logging caches, and has even hidden a few. No signature in my westbound cache that must have been buried under a foot of snow. Delete.

[+briansnat]

Another logged fifteen caches in a major snowstorm that basically closed down the state. Including one a mile down an unmaintainer road. And two on the interstate that would have required a ten mile round trip. One eastbound, the other westbound. That one is curious, and is still logging caches, and has even hidden a few. No signature in my westbound cache that must have been buried under a foot of snow. Delete.

 

That guy was a curious case. He went through the trouble of making his bogus logs look plausible. He clustered his finds in certain areas. Essex County caches with his father in law, and caches the next day on Route 80 while "traveling west".

 

He forgot however the check the weather report on the days he was claiming his "finds" . That and his "Found with my father in law, TFTC" log on one of the most demanding caches terrain-wise in the area - during a major snowstorm, didn't ring true. Delete.

[Dinoprophet]

Whatever the reasons people have for "cheating", this particular case looks legit from what I can see. S/he says s/he was part of ISW, ISW looks like a legit account, and when I spot-checked some of the new account's finds, ISW had found them all. It is true that the new finds on the wrong date could potentially cause problems for cachers making use of recent logs, but it probably just never occurred to him/her.

[+CluelessTwo]

Something occured to me when reading this. If we are changing our username (if we decide to when not so clueless) and have signed the logs as clueless two then will people think we are cheating because the logs dont tally or should we put on our account that we were previously known as clueless two?

[+bittsen]

Something occured to me when reading this. If we are changing our username (if we decide to when not so clueless) and have signed the logs as clueless two then will people think we are cheating because the logs dont tally or should we put on our account that we were previously known as clueless two?

 

You could just update your "about me" page to reflect the name change. It's no biggie.

[knowschad]

Something occured to me when reading this. If we are changing our username (if we decide to when not so clueless) and have signed the logs as clueless two then will people think we are cheating because the logs dont tally or should we put on our account that we were previously known as clueless two?

 

Why would you even think about changing such a fun and cool name? It will be even that much more fun after you've found hundreds of caches.

[+popokiiti]

A caching friend of ours works with someone who quite proudly states that she hasn't found the caches, but logs them online as found anyway. Our friend was rightly miffed at this, but that half-a^s*d cacher is only cheating herself IMO. If she did it on my one and only hide...I would stick a new log book in, bring the old one home, check....no signature = delete online log. I would also send a note explaining why. Politely, of course.

[+CluelessTwo]

Something occured to me when reading this. If we are changing our username (if we decide to when not so clueless) and have signed the logs as clueless two then will people think we are cheating because the logs dont tally or should we put on our account that we were previously known as clueless two?

 

Why would you even think about changing such a fun and cool name? It will be even that much more fun after you've found hundreds of caches.

 

Someone actually suggested I should when I originally came on the forum. Although I get your point. Clueless two would look quite nice next to loads of finds from loads of countries. If only to encourage those who are starting when we are veterens, then they can say that if the clueless two can do it then surely so can I.

 

Claire xx

[+briansnat]

Something occured to me when reading this. If we are changing our username (if we decide to when not so clueless) and have signed the logs as clueless two then will people think we are cheating because the logs dont tally or should we put on our account that we were previously known as clueless two?

 

You can do that and if you are re-logging caches just mention what you are dong. I see it all the time. I'll get logs on my caches backdated 2,3 or more years and the logger explains that he found the cache with X, or under Y account and is now re-logging under a new account.

[+CluelessTwo]

A caching friend of ours works with someone who quite proudly states that she hasn't found the caches, but logs them online as found anyway. Our friend was rightly miffed at this, but that half-a^s*d cacher is only cheating herself IMO. If she did it on my one and only hide...I would stick a new log book in, bring the old one home, check....no signature = delete online log. I would also send a note explaining why. Politely, of course.

 

Your right, they are only cheating themself. The whole fun in this is the thrill of the hunt and the knowledge that you solved it and found the cache. Without that your just totting numbers and that would get boring very quickly! Dont get me wrong, our first few were magnetic nanos which are now the easiest thing to get because we know the hiding places so well but now when we are looking at the listings we are looking for something a bit more challenging and if we were only looking for easy stuff then we would just have to do urban cache and dash stuff. But if theres no challenge then your just going for a bit of a walk to say that you were there and sign a piece of paper. If thats the case then you might as well walk to your local social security office and fill a few forms cause its just the same thing.

 

Claire xx

[+Unkle Fester]

Something occured to me when reading this. If we are changing our username (if we decide to when not so clueless) and have signed the logs as clueless two then will people think we are cheating because the logs dont tally or should we put on our account that we were previously known as clueless two?

 

Why would you even think about changing such a fun and cool name? It will be even that much more fun after you've found hundreds of caches.

 

Someone actually suggested I should when I originally came on the forum. Although I get your point. Clueless two would look quite nice next to loads of finds from loads of countries. If only to encourage those who are starting when we are veterens, then they can say that if the clueless two can do it then surely so can I.

 

Claire xx

Don't change your name, it's Priceless.

 

My original thought for a name was Dumb and Dumber (my favorite movie behind Tommy Boy - which was taken) but I didn't think anyone would get the joke of caching by myself. I also didn't want them to think my wife was one of the two.