Inconsiderate GCers and darned muggles.

[+bittsen]

I placed my first cache on July 1st. I was excited to see that someone found it a day later. More excited that I had 3 in a few days and a travel bug swap. My cache was in business. I was nice and happy.

Today my son said he was going to find my cache and I laughed that it might be a little difficult since it was going to be dark and it was raining. He looked for it for an hour with his girlfriend and couldn't find it, despite extra hints and a phone a friend call that told him exactly where it was. What he didn't know was that I was driving there to laugh as I pointed right at it.

Lo and behold, after a 20 mile drive and a trip down a muddy trail, I arrived to discover a completely different place than I saw 2 weeks earlier.

Where I had hidden the cache, the trail was 3 feet from the tree where the cache was hidden, well camo'd, at the base. Now the trail went right to the edge of the tree. The natural vegetation had been mutilated all throughout the area and the cache would have stuck out like a sore thumb since it's camo was well made false vegetation that was, technically, untrampable (I know, not a word).

I can only surmise that the GCers had destroyed the vegetation whil looking for the cache. I can only further surmise that there have been a few DNFs that were not logged (which makes me want to curse the GCers that didn't log with sailor language).

My cache was MUGGLED! OK, thats partly my fault for making it a relatively easy grab off of the trail but, still, the vegetation was ruined and that helped the camo. If the vegetation had been respected, the cache could have been hidden for years, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO why bother to respect the vegetation?

 

I gave humans too much credit but it was a learning experience. I know better than to think well of the human race, in general. Note, I don't think all GCers are evil. Nor do I think all humans are bad. I just have a better understanding of the "one bad apple" adage.

 

One thing that chaps my hide is that the thieves who stole the cache did so for about $6 worth of stuff. They only got an old piece of tupperware painted black and about $5 cost in swag. FOOLS!

 

What REALLY ticks me off is that there was a travel bug in the cache that now will be MIA. I take it as my fault. I feel horrible for the owners of the TB but helpless about it.

 

I will replace the cache. I have to because I decided to keep a cache there. I will have to hide it MUCH better and in less vegetative area to help keep the trampling down but the location will be close.

 

OH, how much I have learned by this ONE cache.

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

Thing is, if you hide a cache in an area with alot of plant life, it is going to get trampled. even in areas where there isn't alot of plant life, a trail is going to be made over time. It can't be avoided. I have one I wanted to hide in a huge area where the ferns are waist high and it is really cool; almost like you are in a jungle. But looking at what I made just passing through the area, I know that after 10 or 15 cachers, there would be a path right to the cache no matter how careful they would be.

 

It stinks that the cache got muggled, but just because the vegetation was beaten down doesn't mean that the cachers were being careless. At least IMO, I was not at GZ and don't know the area, so I am not passing judgement....

[+bittsen]

Thing is, if you hide a cache in an area with alot of plant life, it is going to get trampled. even in areas where there isn't alot of plant life, a trail is going to be made over time. It can't be avoided. I have one I wanted to hide in a huge area where the ferns are waist high and it is really cool; almost like you are in a jungle. But looking at what I made just passing through the area, I know that after 10 or 15 cachers, there would be a path right to the cache no matter how careful they would be.

 

It stinks that the cache got muggled, but just because the vegetation was beaten down doesn't mean that the cachers were being careless. At least IMO, I was not at GZ and don't know the area, so I am not passing judgement....

 

The area was trashed! You didn't even need to leave the trail to get the cache but there was stomped down vegetation for 30+ feet in all directions.

You are right though. I didn't predict the levels some would go for a smiley.

[+Chrysalides]

I feel your pain.

 

You may want to consider stating the fact that the cache is a short distance from the trail in the description instead of the hints. Won't be 100% foolproof, but hopefully it will reduce the likelihood of such destruction.

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

Thing is, if you hide a cache in an area with alot of plant life, it is going to get trampled. even in areas where there isn't alot of plant life, a trail is going to be made over time. It can't be avoided. I have one I wanted to hide in a huge area where the ferns are waist high and it is really cool; almost like you are in a jungle. But looking at what I made just passing through the area, I know that after 10 or 15 cachers, there would be a path right to the cache no matter how careful they would be.

 

It stinks that the cache got muggled, but just because the vegetation was beaten down doesn't mean that the cachers were being careless. At least IMO, I was not at GZ and don't know the area, so I am not passing judgement....

 

The area was trashed! You didn't even need to leave the trail to get the cache but there was stomped down vegetation for 30+ feet in all directions.

You are right though. I didn't predict the levels some would go for a smiley.

 

Well...ya know....with signal bounce and what-have-you....

 

It's too bad that happened, sometimes when some cachers get hot on the trail they tend to get tunnel vision. Certainly ruining an area is not what this is all about...

[Dj Storm]

 

The area was trashed! You didn't even need to leave the trail to get the cache but there was stomped down vegetation for 30+ feet in all directions.

You are right though. I didn't predict the levels some would go for a smiley.

 

It is possible that the area got trashed after the cache disappeared.

When I search for a cache in the wilderness I always thread lightly, at least I try. Sometimes, when I traveled a long distance for a cache and I have time to search, if the hints don't help, I start looking in places less likely to hide the cache, on a larger area around GZ. If the cache is no longer there, after two hours of searching the area shows signs of trampling, no matter how careful I am.

[+Team Veverca]

The area was trashed! You didn't even need to leave the trail to get the cache but there was stomped down vegetation for 30+ feet in all directions.

You are right though. I didn't predict the levels some would go for a smiley.

You'll always find some cachers that will trample everything. Some FTF hound literally trampled the grass, bushes and even rocks. We were second (missed him for about 10 minutes) and we have seen the destruction in his wake. What puzzles me that he trampled everything in a 15m radius even though the coordinates were spot on and they were on a rocky part of the trail.

[+Unkle Fester]

The area was trashed! You didn't even need to leave the trail to get the cache but there was stomped down vegetation for 30+ feet in all directions.

You are right though. I didn't predict the levels some would go for a smiley.

You'll always find some cachers that will trample everything. Some FTF hound literally trampled the grass, bushes and even rocks. We were second (missed him for about 10 minutes) and we have seen the destruction in his wake. What puzzles me that he trampled everything in a 15m radius even though the coordinates were spot on and they were on a rocky part of the trail.

Don't feel bad, I've archived some that after a week the area was too trashed. I've even seen stumps obliterated down to nothing but a pile of wood chips.

 

The ones that amaze me are when you see them trample and dig into a huge wall of blackberries nearby, like a new hide is going to be in there. Those I find are usually the people who never hiked or got out of the house much before geocaching. They look at the woods like they do their lawn - it'll grow back.

 

I joked about a CITO ivy pull to throw a micro in and tell cachers it's an FTF. DOT would do good for controlling ivy that way.

[+Bunganator]

Today my son said he was going to find my cache and I laughed that it might be a little difficult since it was going to be dark and it was raining. He looked for it for an hour with his girlfriend ...

 

He made her cache in the rain!?!?!?!?!? (I've done that to my girl too )

 

I had a cache muggle early once. Placed in the morning, published in the afternoon, DNFed in the evening. I checked the next day and it was indeed gone. Inside was a newly released Geocoin that I had gotten after a FTF on a 4.5/5 cache I had recently gotten.

[+Curioddity]

It happens in urban areas too. I've seen areas around caches where every single irregation box lid within a hundred feet is broken. There's a mystery cache nearby which suggests that it's red and magnetic and the door of every fire hose box in the parking structure is bent and broken. Those are just a couple of examples.

 

Most geocachers I've met are conscientious and respectful, but it's quite apparent that some aren't. And the people who aren't are giving geocaching a black eye. Perhaps the most sickening part is they probably don't even care.

 

Pete

[+Buggheart]

The area was trashed! You didn't even need to leave the trail to get the cache but there was stomped down vegetation for 30+ feet in all directions.

You are right though. I didn't predict the levels some would go for a smiley.

You'll always find some cachers that will trample everything. Some FTF hound literally trampled the grass, bushes and even rocks. We were second (missed him for about 10 minutes) and we have seen the destruction in his wake. What puzzles me that he trampled everything in a 15m radius even though the coordinates were spot on and they were on a rocky part of the trail.

 

So true! There's a cacher here that I sometimes have the misfortune of following behind and I just hate to see his name on the logbook when I get it. Well actually I can always tell when he's been there before me because the entire area is trampled and ruined like a herd of bison was looking for the cache. Broken tree branches, trampled vegetation and the cache replaced either in the wrong spot, or the lid off or something annoying like that. It's very annoying and disrespectful.

[+bflentje]

Maybe it was someone who watches your postings in the forums.. it wasn't me, I swear. Ok, just having fun.. don't go overboardnow.

[knowschad]

It is possible that the area got trashed after the cache disappeared.

When I search for a cache in the wilderness I always thread lightly, at least I try. Sometimes, when I traveled a long distance for a cache and I have time to search, if the hints don't help, I start looking in places less likely to hide the cache, on a larger area around GZ. If the cache is no longer there, after two hours of searching the area shows signs of trampling, no matter how careful I am.

 

I think that is an extremely likely possibility. Cache was gone, so those that came afterward spent way too much time looking (and apparently not enough time logging their DNFs).

 

Also, (not pointing any fingers here...) if the area is like what I'm picturing (forest groundcover, ferns, stuff like that) caching at night, in the rain with muddy soil is not gonna do an area like that any good, either.

[+JacobBarlow]

Record time for a muggled cache?

 

Before it was published!

[+bittsen]

Maybe it was someone who watches your postings in the forums.. it wasn't me, I swear. Ok, just having fun.. don't go overboardnow.

 

Dat der was FUNNEEEEEE!

 

(Dj Storm @ Jul 13 2009, 03:33 AM)

 

It is possible that the area got trashed after the cache disappeared.

When I search for a cache in the wilderness I always thread lightly, at least I try. Sometimes, when I traveled a long distance for a cache and I have time to search, if the hints don't help, I start looking in places less likely to hide the cache, on a larger area around GZ. If the cache is no longer there, after two hours of searching the area shows signs of trampling, no matter how careful I am.

 

I think that is an extremely likely possibility. Cache was gone, so those that came afterward spent way too much time looking (and apparently not enough time logging their DNFs).

 

Also, (not pointing any fingers here...) if the area is like what I'm picturing (forest groundcover, ferns, stuff like that) caching at night, in the rain with muddy soil is not gonna do an area like that any good, either.

 

Actually, the are is part of a flood plain. The cache was placed at the base of the lowest tree so there was more grass than anything else but similar to what you imagine.

Since it was my son doing the night rain caching, he knew what to avoid (I told him before he left) and it hadn't rained since I placed the cache.

 

I think most of the damage was probably caused by those looking after it went missing but thats EXACTLY why we need to get DNF logs. Also exactly why I post DNF logs.

 

As I said... GCers as a whole are probably a respectable group but now I see why so many think of geocaching as geotrashing.

[+Von-Horst]

The cache was placed at the base of the lowest tree...

 

So why didn't you say that in your hint rather than "Look down 2 feet off trail"?

 

GPSrs are often out by up to 5m (18') so an 36' by 2' trampled strip would be the least you could probably expect....especially as your description makes it clear that people would be looking for a well camoflaged container and not merely a tupperware box under a pile of sticks!

 

 

Mike

Edited July 14, 2009 by Von-Horst

[+bittsen]

The cache was placed at the base of the lowest tree...

 

So why didn't you say that in your hint rather than "Look down 2 feet off trail"?

 

GPSrs are often out by up to 5m (18') so an 36' by 2' trampled strip would be the least you could probably expect....especially as your description makes it clear that people would be looking for a well camoflaged container and not merely a tupperware box under a pile of sticks!

 

 

Mike

 

There is a difference between a "hint" and a dead giveaway.

As I said in my original post, I gave cachers way too much credit. Won't happen again.

[+niraD]

There is a difference between a "hint" and a dead giveaway.

FWIW, I've started including multiple hints for my caches, like this:

[Puzzle hint:] The entire puzzle is on the cache description page.

[Puzzle spoiler:] Use the Source, Luke!

[Cache hint:] between shoulders and ankles

[Cache spoiler:] "fungus" on north side of oak

Okay, maybe not quite that much of a spoiler, but you get the idea. That way people can decrypt as much or as little as they want...

[+The finch farmers]

Record time for a muggled cache?

 

Before it was published!

 

Me to!!

[+Von-Horst]

There is a difference between a "hint" and a dead giveaway.

 

Then you have no grounds to complain.

 

Your listing informed cachers;

 

1) that yours was a 'clever' hide (rather than, as it tuned out, merely being at the base of a tree)

2) it imples that the vergetation wasn't there when you placed the cache, or may have grown over the cache

3) that the cache is so cleverly hidden that you have somehow managed to hide a regular just 2' from the path.

 

How are people supposed to find a cache like that without walking over/through some of the vegetation whilst looking?

 

As far as the whole hint (or non hint) as opposed to "dead giveaway" argument goes, I guess it depends on why you placed the cache in the first place;

 

If you wanted to bring other people to an area you like, your listing should allow them to do so without destroying that which you want them to see (and the hide is intended to protect the cache from the eyes of non-cachers)

 

If wanted to hide a cache with the intention that it be a challenge for others to find and a chance to show them how clever/inventive you are, then you should have hidden the cache in an area that ccould handle people looking for it.

 

As a hider, you have a responsibilty to hide your cache in a considerate way, being careful to bear in mind what impact the way you hide the cache and write the listing will have on the way people search for it.

 

I know that I'm going against the flow here, and not winning any friends, but it is true.

 

You are the one who is ultimately responsible for the damage caused by the cache you placed.

 

The people who caused the damage were only there because you placed a cache there. As such, it is your responsibilty to be a considerate cache hider.

 

Right, enough of this. Back to the TV. Here's hoping the AL win (again!)

 

Mike

 

(edited because its 4 in the morning here, my spelling is apalling at the best of times, and the game's getting good)

Edited July 15, 2009 by Von-Horst

[+bittsen]

There is a difference between a "hint" and a dead giveaway.

 

Then you have no grounds to complain.

 

Your listing informed cachers;

 

1) that yours was a 'clever' hide (rather than, as it tuned out, merely being at the base of a tree)

2) it imples that the vergetation wasn't there when you placed the cache, or may have grown over the cache

3) that the cache is so cleverly hidden that you have somehow managed to hide a regular just 2' from the path.

 

How are people supposed to find a cache like that without walking over/through some of the vegetation whilst looking?

 

As far as the whole hint (or non hint) as opposed to "dead giveaway" argument goes, I guess it depends on why you placed the cache in the first place;

 

If you wanted to bring other people to an area you like, your listing should allow them to do so without destroying that which you want them to see (and the hide is intended to protect the cache from the eyes of non-cachers)

 

If wanted to hide a cache with the intention that it be a challenge for others to find and a chance to show them how clever/inventive you are, then you should have hidden the cache in an area that ccould handle people looking for it.

 

As a hider, you have a responsibilty to hide your cache in a considerate way, being careful to bear in mind what impact the way you hide the cache and write the listing will have on the way people search for it.

 

I know that I'm going against the flow here, and not winning any friends, but it is true.

 

You are the one who is ultimately responsible for the damage caused by the cache you placed.

 

The people who caused the damage were only there because you placed a cache there. As such, it is your responsibilty to be a considerate cache hider.

 

Right, enough of this. Back to the TV. Here's hoping the AL win (again!)

 

Mike

 

(edited because its 4 in the morning here, my spelling is apalling at the best of times, and the game's getting good)

 

Your implication that a clever hide can't be done at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail is ludicrous. The vegetation was there when placed.

What could possibly be a clever hide at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail? One that looks like a small native plant.

[+Von-Horst]

Your implication that a clever hide can't be done at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail is ludicrous. The vegetation was there when placed.

What could possibly be a clever hide at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail? One that looks like a small native plant.

 

Whatever.

 

Despite the fact that it was your cache that lasted no more than a paltry 15 days, you're obviously neither looking for, or going to accept, any advice or comment as to what may have gone wrong and I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone who is spoiling for a fight and nothing more.

 

You are, by your own admission, the Über Genius ( ) and as such clearly know best and so are quite correct in all you say...

 

Yes, its all 'their' fault your cache went so badly wrong so quickly.

 

Yes, 'they' are such terrible, people. How dare they be so inconsiderate!

 

You're poor unfortunate hide was the best ever, your listing could not be improved and both you and it have my sympathy.

 

I hope that this post was more to your liking.

 

Happy caching and best wishes,

 

Mike (and yay! the AL won!)

Edited July 15, 2009 by Von-Horst

[+bittsen]

Your implication that a clever hide can't be done at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail is ludicrous. The vegetation was there when placed.

What could possibly be a clever hide at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail? One that looks like a small native plant.

 

Whatever.

 

Despite the fact that it was your cache that lasted no more than a paltry 15 days, you're obviously neither looking for, or going to accept, any advice or comment as to what may have gone wrong and I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone who is spoiling for a fight and nothing more.

 

You are, by your own admission, the Über Genius ( ) and as such clearly know best and so are quite correct in all you say...

 

Yes, its all 'their' fault your cache went so badly wrong so quickly.

 

Yes, 'they' are such terrible, people. How dare they be so inconsiderate!

 

You're poor unfortunate hide was the best ever, your listing could not be improved and both you and it have my sympathy.

 

I hope that this post was more to your liking.

 

Happy caching and best wishes,

 

Mike (and yay! the AL won!)

 

Wow, just wow.

[+WRASTRO]

Your implication that a clever hide can't be done at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail is ludicrous. The vegetation was there when placed.

What could possibly be a clever hide at the base of a tree, 2 feet off of a trail? One that looks like a small native plant.

 

Whatever.

 

Despite the fact that it was your cache that lasted no more than a paltry 15 days, you're obviously neither looking for, or going to accept, any advice or comment as to what may have gone wrong and I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone who is spoiling for a fight and nothing more.

 

You are, by your own admission, the Über Genius ( ) and as such clearly know best and so are quite correct in all you say...

 

Yes, its all 'their' fault your cache went so badly wrong so quickly.

 

Yes, 'they' are such terrible, people. How dare they be so inconsiderate!

 

You're poor unfortunate hide was the best ever, your listing could not be improved and both you and it have my sympathy.

 

I hope that this post was more to your liking.

 

Happy caching and best wishes,

 

Mike (and yay! the AL won!)

 

Wow, just wow.

I agree with Von-Horst on this. If you want to hide a cache in an area that you are concerned about the vegetation being trampled then it is up to you to provide enough information so that searchers won't wander around looking for the cache and trample things. You don't have to completely give away the hide but you can make it extremely clear what does not need to be done to find and retrieve the cache.

 

If the area wasn't trampled before you placed a cache and it is trampled after you placed a cache then I believe you are responsible for any damage to the area whether it be temporary or permanent. Don't you think a hide that looks like a small native plant is going to have the potential to cause searchers to disturb and trample the nearby vegetation?

[+bittsen]

Whatever.

 

Despite the fact that it was your cache that lasted no more than a paltry 15 days, you're obviously neither looking for, or going to accept, any advice or comment as to what may have gone wrong and I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone who is spoiling for a fight and nothing more.

 

You are, by your own admission, the Über Genius ( ) and as such clearly know best and so are quite correct in all you say...

 

Yes, its all 'their' fault your cache went so badly wrong so quickly.

 

Yes, 'they' are such terrible, people. How dare they be so inconsiderate!

 

You're poor unfortunate hide was the best ever, your listing could not be improved and both you and it have my sympathy.

 

I hope that this post was more to your liking.

 

Happy caching and best wishes,

 

Mike (and yay! the AL won!)

 

Wow, just wow.

I agree with Von-Horst on this. If you want to hide a cache in an area that you are concerned about the vegetation being trampled then it is up to you to provide enough information so that searchers won't wander around looking for the cache and trample things. You don't have to completely give away the hide but you can make it extremely clear what does not need to be done to find and retrieve the cache.

 

If the area wasn't trampled before you placed a cache and it is trampled after you placed a cache then I believe you are responsible for any damage to the area whether it be temporary or permanent. Don't you think a hide that looks like a small native plant is going to have the potential to cause searchers to disturb and trample the nearby vegetation?

 

Oh, I understand the problems I had with my cache. I said it in my original post on this. I gave far too much credit to the people looking for the cache. I won't make the mistake again.

 

I was quite impressed with the attitude in the von-horst posts though.

[+WRASTRO]

My impression with Von-Horst's posts was that he/she was trying to make a big point that it is the hider's responsibility to take the necessary steps with the hide and the description to ensure that searchers won't trash an area. Of course searchers should not be doing these things, but it is the responsibility of the hider to make it absolutely clear that they should not and do not need to do so. Live and learn. The vegetation will very likely recover soon if it hasn't already.

[+bittsen]

My impression with Von-Horst's posts was that he/she was trying to make a big point that it is the hider's responsibility to take the necessary steps with the hide and the description to ensure that searchers won't trash an area. Of course searchers should not be doing these things, but it is the responsibility of the hider to make it absolutely clear that they should not and do not need to do so. Live and learn. The vegetation will very likely recover soon if it hasn't already.

 

Yes and the complete lack of respect was what people in this forum like to see in a "helpful" post.

 

It's only been 3 days. The vegetation hasn't recovered yet but it will. Doesn't really matter too much since it's a flood plain and all...

Edited July 15, 2009 by bittsen

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

My word...plants got trampled. I doubt it was the war zone that the OP is making it out to be. Let's see some pics. Plants get trampled all the time by hunters, hikers, cachers....O AND DEER, ELK, BEAR...just about anything that wants to lay down somewhere. I am all for taking the best care not to disturb the natural surroundings at GZ, but sometimes things are going to happen. And the more cachers, the more things are going to be disturb no matter how careful they are.

 

And if someone is looking for this clever hide, they are going to search harder and harder thinking that they are just not finding it. Having to move aside every fern is not going to happen. It's a shame it got muggled, that the area got messed up; but really, let's not make this out like all of geocaching is to blame or that the good name cacher has just been tarnished in the publics eye. You got careless cachers just as you have careless every other type people in the world. It's a shame, it's too bad, move on. Go caching!

[CoyoteRed]

OH, how much I have learned by this ONE cache.

Hopefully one of the things you've learned is to place a potentially popular cache on durable surfaces.

 

We had a cache that was right on the edge of a trail. It was an ammo can and it lasted quite a long time with no issues of trampling. Go figure.

[+Von-Horst]

Yes and the complete lack of respect was what people in this forum like to see in a "helpful" post.

 

Hmm. You complain about not being treated with respect when your responses to my posts have been anything but respectful.

 

Let’s see.

 

Your response to my first post was so dismissively brief as to avoid disrespect and go straight to being downright rude.

 

As for my second, more detailed post, a considered and full response was apparently more than I could hope for. The (rather confusing) response you did make, whilst at least being a bit longer is hard to consider being one that treats me with respect, containing as it does the word “ludicrous”.

 

Perhaps it was unitentional.

 

Moving swiftly on, whilst there many on these forums far, far more experienced and qualified than I am, here’s a bit of free advice and an example for you. It may help, may not.

 

When placing a cache, you should consider three things;

 

1) Where am I placing the cache?

2) Why am I placing the cache?

3) What sort of cache do I want it to be?

 

Starting at the top;

 

1) Where am I placing the cache?

 

The way you hide a cache, and what goes into a listing, should vary according to where the cache is. A cache in the middle of the woods will be hidden differently, and be looked for differently than one in a rest area, one in the middle of a city and so on.

 

Your cache is accessible only from the I84 (Okay, and the River). This means that the vast majority of people who come looking for it will be whizzing along doing cache-and-dashes. Most cache-and-dashes are blandly anonymous, with blandly anonymous listings that fail to leave any great impression. When they arrive at your cache they will be in a hurry to find the cache and resume their journey. This can have bad consequences for your cache and its immediate surroundings unless you can find a way to get them to slow down, and hopefully remember your cache, which brings us to

 

2) Why am I placing the cache?

 

Some caches are placed so as to highlight areas of great historical or geological significance. Others identify local attractions/oddities (for example GC13Y7P ). Still others are in locations with happy memories for the placer or that have nice scenery.

 

Your cache appears to be the latter (it is somewhere you like going, after all) and if this is the case, your listing should draw this out so that you can share it with other cachers (and, remember, so they slow down and take the time to appreciate and be considerate of your cache, the location it is in and the time you have spent putting everything together.), which brings us to

 

3) What sort of cache do I want it to be?

 

As I said previously, If you want to bring other people to an area you like, your listing should allow them to do so without destroying that which you want them to see (and the hide is intended to protect the cache from the eyes of non-cachers)

 

If want to hide a cache with the intention that it be a challenge for others to find then you should hide the cache in an area that can handle the rough and tumble of people (and potentially frustrated people!) looking for it.

 

So, bearing all that in mind, here’s how I would have listed your cache. Please bear in mind that this is an example only – whilst I have driven the I84 I was travelling east and have never actually been to Dalton Point. At this moment just slightly more than one third of the way around the globe!

 

Anyway, without further ado;

 

 

Decription

 

Accessible from the Westbound I84 only.

 

Take exit 29 for Dalton Point.

 

There is a trail that runs past the cache – THERE IS NO NEED TO LEAVE THE TRAIL TO RETRIEVE THE CACHE. Please be aware that the cache location and the trail can get muddy so this one may not always be suitable for street clothes.

 

The cache is placed near a boat ramp and (weather allowing!) I like coming here to take in the superb views of and across the Columbia River.

 

The Columbia River is named after the ship, Columbia Rediviva in which Captain Robert Gray became the first 'European' to enter the river in May 1792, sailing as far as Gray's Bay (modern Frankfort). The Columbia Rediviva was the first American ship to circumnavigate the globe, under the name Lady Washington, and a sea-going replica is based in Aberdeen, WA. There is a cache (GCPRB7) nearby.

 

The first 'Europeans' to reach as far upriver as Dalton Point were Lewis and Clerk, as they paddled dugout canoes from the Sandy River upriver as far as Bateman Island, WA in 1805 (see GCHZ97).

 

The first 'European' to travel the entire length of the river, in 1811, was Canadian explorer David Thompson.

 

The large knoll you can see on the other side of the river was named Prindle by the St. Paul & Spokane Railway after the first settler in the area, Ernest Hinsdale Prindle, who filed for 160 acres in 1898.

 

You are looking for a camouflaged a Rubbermaid container – please try to retrieve and re-hide the cache carefully and with consideration for the nearby plant life.

 

 

 

Some examples of the sort of pictures that you could use for the listing;

 

The boat ramp

 

Prindle from near the cache

 

The Lady Washington

 

 

As for the hint? I know what I would use, and I know you disagree!

 

Hopefully a listing like this would generate less "TNLN TFTC" and insect related logs and more "thanks for sharing the view" type ones!

 

This may help or may not.

 

As ever, best wishes and happy caching,

 

 

Mike

Edited July 15, 2009 by Von-Horst

[+bittsen]

Yes and the complete lack of respect was what people in this forum like to see in a "helpful" post.

 

Hmm. You complain about not being treated with respect when your responses to my posts have been anything but respectful.

 

Let’s see.

 

Your response to my first post was so dismissively brief as to avoid disrespect and go straight to being downright rude.

 

As for my second, more detailed post, a considered and full response was apparently more than I could hope for. The (rather confusing) response you did make, whilst at least being a bit longer is hard to consider being one that treats me with respect, containing as it does the word “ludicrous”.

 

Perhaps it was unitentional.

 

Moving swiftly on, whilst there many on these forums far, far more experienced and qualified than I am, here’s a bit of free advice and an example for you. It may help, may not.

 

When placing a cache, you should consider three things;

 

1) Where am I placing the cache?

2) Why am I placing the cache?

3) What sort of cache do I want it to be?

 

Starting at the top;

 

1) Where am I placing the cache?

 

The way you hide a cache, and what goes into a listing, should vary according to where the cache is. A cache in the middle of the woods will be hidden differently, and be looked for differently than one in a rest area, one in the middle of a city and so on.

 

Your cache is accessible only from the I84 (Okay, and the River). This means that the vast majority of people who come looking for it will be whizzing along doing cache-and-dashes. Most cache-and-dashes are blandly anonymous, with blandly anonymous listings that fail to leave any great impression. When they arrive at your cache they will be in a hurry to find the cache and resume their journey. This can have bad consequences for your cache and its immediate surroundings unless you can find a way to get them to slow down, and hopefully remember your cache, which brings us to

 

2) Why am I placing the cache?

 

Some caches are placed so as to highlight areas of great historical or geological significance. Others identify local attractions/oddities (for example GC13Y7P ). Still others are in locations with happy memories for the placer or that have nice scenery.

 

Your cache appears to be the latter (it is somewhere you like going, after all) and if this is the case, your listing should draw this out so that you can share it with other cachers (and, remember, so they slow down and take the time to appreciate and be considerate of your cache, the location it is in and the time you have spent putting everything together.), which brings us to

 

3) What sort of cache do I want it to be?

 

As I said previously, If you want to bring other people to an area you like, your listing should allow them to do so without destroying that which you want them to see (and the hide is intended to protect the cache from the eyes of non-cachers)

 

If want to hide a cache with the intention that it be a challenge for others to find then you should hide the cache in an area that can handle the rough and tumble of people (and potentially frustrated people!) looking for it.

 

So, bearing all that in mind, here’s how I would have listed your cache. Please bear in mind that this is an example only – whilst I have driven the I84 I was travelling east and have never actually been to Dalton Point. At this moment just slightly more than one third of the way around the globe!

 

Anyway, without further ado;

 

 

Decription

 

Accessible from the Westbound I84 only.

 

Take exit 29 for Dalton Point.

 

There is a trail that runs past the cache – THERE IS NO NEED TO LEAVE THE TRAIL TO RETRIEVE THE CACHE. Please be aware that the cache location and the trail can get muddy so this one may not always be suitable for street clothes.

 

The cache is placed near a boat ramp and (weather allowing!) I like coming here to take in the superb views of and across the Columbia River.

 

The Columbia River is named after the ship, Columbia Rediviva in which Captain Robert Gray became the first 'European' to enter the river in May 1792, sailing as far as Gray's Bay (modern Frankfort). The Columbia Rediviva was the first American ship to circumnavigate the globe, under the name Lady Washington, and a sea-going replica is based in Aberdeen, WA. There is a cache (GCPRB7) nearby.

 

The first 'Europeans' to reach as far upriver as Dalton Point were Lewis and Clerk, as they paddled dugout canoes from the Sandy River upriver as far as Bateman Island, WA in 1805 (see GCHZ97).

 

The first 'European' to travel the entire length of the river, in 1811, was Canadian explorer David Thompson.

 

The large knoll you can see on the other side of the river was named Prindle by the St. Paul & Spokane Railway after the first settler in the area, Ernest Hinsdale Prindle, who filed for 160 acres in 1898.

 

You are looking for a camouflaged a Rubbermaid container – please try to retrieve and re-hide the cache carefully and with consideration for the nearby plant life.

 

 

 

Some examples of the sort of pictures that you could use for the listing;

 

The boat ramp

 

Prindle from near the cache

 

The Lady Washington

 

 

As for the hint? I know what I would use, and I know you disagree!

 

Hopefully a listing like this would generate less "TNLN TFTC" and insect related logs and more "thanks for sharing the view" type ones!

 

This may help or may not.

 

As ever, best wishes and happy caching,

 

 

Mike

 

Oh, I am so sorry that my cache description didn't live up to your standards. May Gawd have mercy upon my soul.

 

You CANNOT access the cache location from I-84 for various reasons. You can only access the spot by traveling West on I-84. There is no eastbound exit. You assumed wrong.

It could be considered a cache and dash but there is a trail you must walk to get to the cache.

 

My reason for placing the cache here was simple. To draw people to the area. I don't need to list pictures for them to see. I want them to see for themselves.

 

Bottom line is you seem to feel my cache wasn't up to your standards. Good for you

 

Though your suggestions are noted, I doubt I would ever live up to your standards, nor would I ever want to. Keeping my personal opinion of you out of things is difficult but suffice to say, I hope you don't represent the average cacher.

[Skippermark]

I think most of the damage was probably caused by those looking after it went missing but thats EXACTLY why we need to get DNF logs. Also exactly why I post DNF logs.

Don't hold your breath on that. I find that many cachers do not log DNFs.

 

I had someone email me for one of my caches, and he said, "Can I get a hint on this..." but he didn't mention which cache it was, so I replied that I didn't know which cache it was and that I hadn't seen any DNFs on any of my caches in the past week. He replied, saying that he hadn't logged the DNF yet. Over a week has past and still no DNF has been logged on it..."

 

I like to cache with others, and sometimes there will be 6 of us together, and I'll be the only one out of the group that logs a DNF. Now, I realize that DNFs aren't bad, so in my log I'll purposely say that I was out caching with 5 friends (then I'll name them) and say that we didn't find it.

 

If the owner sees one DNF, they may just pass it off as nothing big, but if there are 6 people looking (and 6 DNFs), those DNFs would hold more weight than a single one, and they might be more apt to check on the cache.

[+bittsen]

I think most of the damage was probably caused by those looking after it went missing but thats EXACTLY why we need to get DNF logs. Also exactly why I post DNF logs.

Don't hold your breath on that. I find that many cachers do not log DNFs.

 

I had someone email me for one of my caches, and he said, "Can I get a hint on this..." but he didn't mention which cache it was, so I replied that I didn't know which cache it was and that I hadn't seen any DNFs on any of my caches in the past week. He replied, saying that he hadn't logged the DNF yet. Over a week has past and still no DNF has been logged on it..."

 

I like to cache with others, and sometimes there will be 6 of us together, and I'll be the only one out of the group that logs a DNF. Now, I realize that DNFs aren't bad, so in my log I'll purposely say that I was out caching with 5 friends (then I'll name them) and say that we didn't find it.

 

If the owner sees one DNF, they may just pass it off as nothing big, but if there are 6 people looking (and 6 DNFs), those DNFs would hold more weight than a single one, and they might be more apt to check on the cache.

 

Yup. I agree.

I post DNF logs on most caches I look for and don't find. If I don't seriously look for a cache, i won't log the DNF.

When introducing my friend and my son to Gcaching, I stressed the importance of a DNF. It's not like an Ebay account where it lowers your score or anything. Maybe some are just afraid to record something they perceive as a personal failure.

[+nericksx]

Hey you two! Don't make me come over there!

 

Van-Horst: what is the number on that cache? I wanna go there. From the picts I think I know where it is...

Thanks!

[+bittsen]

Hey you two! Don't make me come over there!

 

Van-Horst: what is the number on that cache? I wanna go there. From the picts I think I know where it is...

Thanks!

 

Thats my cache he was ointing out.

It's the basis of the conversation. As of right now it's down for maintenance because I have to replace it because some jerk (edited for the censors) stole the frakkin cache.

 

Just need some concrete and a little time before I get it back on the list.

 

If you want to know the number of the cache, just look for the only one I have hidden.

[+nericksx]

Hey you two! Don't make me come over there!

 

Van-Horst: what is the number on that cache? I wanna go there. From the picts I think I know where it is...

Thanks!

 

Thats my cache he was ointing out.

It's the basis of the conversation. As of right now it's down for maintenance because I have to replace it because some jerk (edited for the censors) stole the frakkin cache.

 

Just need some concrete and a little time before I get it back on the list.

 

If you want to know the number of the cache, just look for the only one I have hidden.

 

Oh sorry, I kinda got lost going down the rabbit hole on this thread. I thought it was his that he was offering up as an example of how to post cache so it doesn't get trampled or something. Oh. Well it looks like a lovely spot. When you get it up and running again let us know and we'll look for it. I promise to try to be nice to the plants

[+bittsen]

Hey you two! Don't make me come over there!

 

Van-Horst: what is the number on that cache? I wanna go there. From the picts I think I know where it is...

Thanks!

 

Thats my cache he was ointing out.

It's the basis of the conversation. As of right now it's down for maintenance because I have to replace it because some jerk (edited for the censors) stole the frakkin cache.

 

Just need some concrete and a little time before I get it back on the list.

 

If you want to know the number of the cache, just look for the only one I have hidden.

 

Oh sorry, I kinda got lost going down the rabbit hole on this thread. I thought it was his that he was offering up as an example of how to post cache so it doesn't get trampled or something. Oh. Well it looks like a lovely spot. When you get it up and running again let us know and we'll look for it. I promise to try to be nice to the plants

 

No worries.

It used to be a much lovelier spot but it sort of needs repair.

Put a watch on the cache listing and you will get notified the instant its fixed.

The coords are going to change a smidge so don't load the coords quite yet.