Feature Request: Override mystery coordinates

[+diepauls]

I would like to have a way to override the header coordinates of a mystery cache with own caches, so the icon for the cache shows up in a different place on the cachemap.

 

Usually, I solve the riddles in mystery caches and then store the correct coordinates in some text file. Now when planning a cache tour in a certain region, I collect all regular caches in a bookmark list. As mystery caches don't show up in that region, I have to manually check all of them to see whether one of them is in the affected region.

 

Now if I could somehow change the header coordinates of the mystery to the real coordinates, all mystery caches would show up in the region they are hidden in. This would make planning *a lot* easier.

 

This could be combined with a geochecker feature (gc.com already has the real, final coordinates for any mystery), and solved mystery caches could be shown with a different icon (e..g ! instead of ?) as well.

 

Comments, anybody?

[+Team Veverca]

I use gsak for this. I add the solved coordinates as a child entity and then check on google earth if the coordinates are OK (in proximity) or way off. And it also helps if you get different sets of coordinates. Then you can check multiple waypoints.

It would be a great feature but it would have to support multiple coordinates for some puzzle caches.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Team Veverca

[+riviouveur]

The final of a Mystery cache should normally be within 2 miles / 3 km of the GCxxxxx coordinates. When reviewing, I regularly ask people to move their start coordinates to within that distance. Exceptions are rare.

[+FraCaMen]

I would like to have a way to override the header coordinates of a mystery cache with own caches, so the icon for the cache shows up in a different place on the cachemap.

 

I really like the idea.

 

If only we could override the coordinate on a bookmark list would already help a lot. Than you could simply create a PQ for that list and you are ready to go for the hunt.

[+Arrow42]

I would love to be able to add my own custom waypoints to puzzle caches. Would beat the heck out of notes in my blackberry.

[+benh57]

Great suggestion.

 

Obviously many people use GSAK for this but sometimes i accidentally use a new DB, or grab a PQ on the go, and forget to run it through GSAK to pick up my corrected coords.

[+diepauls]

I know that one could use GSAK to workaround this, but I'd really prefer a solution for gc.com, as this is what I mostly use to plan my trips. To be honest, I tried GSAK multiple times in the past, but never got the hang of it. It has loads of features, but hides them under a horrible user interface. That's just my personal opinion :-)

 

Even if the real hiding place is within 3km of the header coordinates, this doesn't help a lot when caching in urban regions with many caches, where I plan my cache trip with 10+ caches in a much smaller radius, so I can walk or use public transport.

[+entogeek]

I use the corrected co-ordinates feature in GSAK (right click on a cache and select Corrected Co-ordinates - how easy can it get). Then I copy all of my solved puzzle caches to another db in GSAK so I don't accidentally delete them. Right now I have 32 solved puzzle caches waiting for me to go and find them. After spending a bit of time with GSAK I've become quite fond of its capabilities. If I want I can export any or all of them to my mapping software and GPS. YMMV of course.

[+niraD]

GSAK requires MS Windows. Not everyone uses MS Windows, and some who do just don't want to deal with a third-party application between their PQs and their GPSr. A "corrected coordinates" feature built into Geocaching.com would be nice.

[+dakboy]

GSAK requires MS Windows. Not everyone uses MS Windows, and some who do just don't want to deal with a third-party application between their PQs and their GPSr. A "corrected coordinates" feature built into Geocaching.com would be nice.

I was going to post exactly this.

 

There definitely are some things that are best left to third-party software, and I'm perfectly OK with that. There is definitely room for some of the features of 3rd-party software to be integrated into gc.com as well. Things like notes for myself about a particular cache (yes, doable with Bookmark Lists, but then I have to keep the list private so that I don't spoil puzzles), or adding extra waypoints/corrected coordinates, etc.

 

"Just do it in GSAK" is used frequently enough as the answer to feature requests that one almost wonders if there isn't an "agreement" between the GSAK author and either Groundspeak or a number of highly-visible forum members. There most likely isn't, but a good conspiracy fan could run with it.

[+MYater]

GSAK requires MS Windows. Not everyone uses MS Windows, and some who do just don't want to deal with a third-party application between their PQs and their GPSr. A "corrected coordinates" feature built into Geocaching.com would be nice.

This could be combined with a geochecker feature (gc.com already has the real, final coordinates for any mystery), and solved mystery caches could be shown with a different icon (e..g ! instead of ?) as well.

In regards to adding a geochecker function into Groundspeak, from what I have gleaned out of a couple other sources, Geochecker.com, is owned by Groundspeak as it is. Apparently it was cited here on the GS forums, and then repeated with more specific domain info on the Utah Geocachers Forum;

 

http://www.utahgeocachers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7005

 

It may not be viewable to not UTAG members, but as I said, it was citing a GS forum post somewhere (I am trying to get more info here) that Groundspeak owns Geochecker...

 

So why they are not merged and then have the functionality to update a BM or PQ with corrected info I do not know, but it sure would be nice.

[robertlipe]

GSAK requires MS Windows. Not everyone uses MS Windows, and some who do just don't want to deal with a third-party application between their PQs and their GPSr. A "corrected coordinates" feature built into Geocaching.com would be nice.

A PQ is a GPX file. By the numbers, most GPSr's represented here need some third-party application to get hose PQs into them, whether that's GSAK, GPSBabel, EasyGPS, or something else.

 

Lobby the maker of whatever software it is that you use to implement whatever improvements you want. (GPSBabel has has this corrected/puzzle geocaching coordinates feature for over five years) History has been pretty clear that site changes for such specialized behaviour are unwise to wait for.

[robertlipe]

one almost wonders if there isn't an "agreement" between the GSAK author and either Groundspeak or a number of highly-visible forum members. There most likely isn't, but a good conspiracy fan could run with it.

 

Having heard an earful from all three sides of that fence (Groundspeak, GSAK, Forum members), I'm reasonably sure there's no collusion there.

 

As I check this, geochecker.com won't resolve in name service, so that site is probably not a high priority for anyone.

[+niraD]

For the record, I've started experimenting with boulter's Geocaching Basecamp: http://boulter.com/basecamp/

[cezanne]

The final of a Mystery cache should normally be within 2 miles / 3 km of the GCxxxxx coordinates. When reviewing, I regularly ask people to move their start coordinates to within that distance. Exceptions are rare.

 

In my opinion it makes much more sense to check whether the starting point of a mystery cache lies within the 2 miles region. There might be many kilometers between the start and the destination of a cache with multiple stages (there are caches where this distance is more than 100 km). Multi caches are listed with their starting coordinates as well, not with coordinates close to the destination (so the argument about the mileage of trackables does not make sense).

 

Cezanne

[toczygroszek]

Was thinking about it many times. I keep my solved coordinates in my personally paper notebook, but what will happen when I will lose it or just forget? Same thing with GSAK - it's easy just lose data or overwrite database. In my own cache I can make waypoint what is invisible for others. Something similar for other caches would be great. Or just some space for personal note to every cache.

Edited July 28, 2009 by toczygroszek

[+fegan]

I use gsak for this. I add the solved coordinates as a child entity and then check on google earth if the coordinates are OK (in proximity) or way off. And it also helps if you get different sets of coordinates. Then you can check multiple waypoints.

It would be a great feature but it would have to support multiple coordinates for some puzzle caches.

 

In case you didn't know...instead of adding a Child Waypoint, you could simply enter Corrected Coordinates. Then the cache will show up in the correct location on your map as you're navigating from cache to cache...rather than having to look up the child waypoint, only to find out you're still a mile away.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Gee willikers. If I solve a mystery cache, I hand enter them on my Gupy. Works for me.

[+cron]

Gee willikers. If I solve a mystery cache, I hand enter them on my Gupy. Works for me.

 

And then a new puzzle came out that requires you to use the final coordinates of three puzzles that were published two years ago. Did you keep them in your GPSr, or in a separate file? Do you solve the puzzles again? I prefer GSAK (but it's off topic).

 

Back to topic, I would support the idea of a geochecker from geocaching.com. This would probably be really easy to set-up and it would give several hits to the site, which is good money for Groundspeak. The geochecker could be enabled with a checkbox, and you could choose to make it "exact" or "approximative" (i.e. within a range). That would be nice! I know it exists from third-party sites, but I'd like to see it on the same server that my final child waypoint has been already entered.

[+2FastLX]

I was just wondering if someone has suggested this and did a search...sure enough it has. Good idea. I'm kinda new to all this still and have yet to purchase a premium account. But I plan to do so after I climb out of the gutter after being laid off. I also don't have a fancy handheld unit which I am discovering would really help finding some of the harder caches, not to mention be more accurate in placing my own. So I am currently downloading LOC files from the cache search list (hiding my current found caches) and uploading them into my Tom Tom after converting the files using GPSBabel. I have to uncheck the mystery caches so they don't show on my GPS in their incorrect locations.

 

Hopefully I can soon afford a premium account and a new GPS. But I have been wondering why you have to use so much 3rd party software when it all could be incorporated into this site. I realize with membership comes added benefits. But this is ridiculous. You should be able to solve the puzzle on the listing page for the cache to update the correct coordinates. That should be easy to do. I have solved a few puzzles and due to my membership status and GPS that I use, which is based on my current financial situation, am stuck with keeping those solved coordinates in Notepad.

 

Unless there is another way I am unaware of?

[+DanOCan]

But I have been wondering why you have to use so much 3rd party software when it all could be incorporated into this site.

 

You don't HAVE to use third party software. I know I cached for a long time quit happily using LOC files and hand entering coordinates into my GPSr. Third party software is just another solution, just like your use of Notepad.

 

Sure, they could add a lot of that functionality directly to the site, but why add a lot of bloat with features that only some users will ever use? There are enough people out there now who can't do things like clear Maintenance Flags, read the guidelines, update coordinates, select the proper cache size, etc. that adding even more things for them to do would only confuse them more.

 

The site stays [relatively] simple and those who desire a higher level of functionality can do so with the third party tools, whether that is Notepad or GSAK.

[+niraD]

I really don't see how this feature would contribute significant bloat.

 

With the current premium-member features, I can already create a "solved puzzles" bookmark list, include the corrected (solved) coordinates in the comments for each bookmarked cache, and even generate a PQ based on this bookmark list.

 

The only thing I can't do (without sending the PQ through a third-party app) is get the PQ to use my corrected coordinates rather than the posted coordinates.

[+fizzymagic]

I quite honestly don't understand the resistance to this very good idea. I suggested it and got similar responses.

 

In my opinion, geocaching.com is trying to move away from supporting offline databases and more to having users use the online versions of cache information in the field. This request fits well into that model.

 

I personally have about 800 solved puzzles for caches around the country. I've written my own tools to deal with them, because existing tools don't do a very good job. It would be much better for me if the coordinates I would see on the website would reflect the solved coordinates.

 

But my real wonder is why people seem to be so passionately hostile to this idea. So you personally wouldn't use it. OK, that's fine. But why take the time in the forums to tell people that they are bad because they want it?

[+2FastLX]

 

You don't HAVE to use third party software. I know I cached for a long time quit happily using LOC files and hand entering coordinates into my GPSr. Third party software is just another solution, just like your use of Notepad.

 

As I stated, using Notepad for me is my only option, and quite inconvenient to say the least. I don't consider it a tool. When you use a tool for a job you select the right tool for the job. Notepad is like a monkey wrench or crescent wrench if you prefer. Either will get the job done, but not the best tool by any means.

 

Sure, they could add a lot of that functionality directly to the site, but why add a lot of bloat with features that only some users will ever use? There are enough people out there now who can't do things like clear Maintenance Flags, read the guidelines, update coordinates, select the proper cache size, etc. that adding even more things for them to do would only confuse them more.

 

I agree to some extent, but this is something others have asked for before me. Rarely do I do a search on a forum for a feature I'd like to suggest and find out it has been mentioned previously as much as this one has.

 

The site stays [relatively] simple and those who desire a higher level of functionality can do so with the third party tools, whether that is Notepad or GSAK.

 

I will probably advance to using GSAK, just as I learned to use GPSBabel. But I really don't believe this feature should be ignored just because you can do it with 3rd party software. I use Google maps to search for caches I haven't found yet. It would be easier if the solved mystery caches on the map showed up as "!" as mentioned before at the corrected location instead of "?" at the incorrect location.

[+webscouter.]

This request would fit in quite nicely with my request to have bookmark list notes be included in the GPX file. How cool would it be to have a bookmark list that overrides the coordinates of the cache AND also lets you attach notes that you can see in your GPS?

[AZcachemeister]

Isn't this a 'Dead Horse' topic?

 

Expecting the site to save a private set of co-ordinates for every user, for every puzzle/mystery cache is just too much.

 

If saving your solution in a bookmark is not good enough, then I pity you.

 

Write it on the wall next to your comp.

[+niraD]

Expecting the site to save a private set of co-ordinates for every user, for every puzzle/mystery cache is just too much.

Why is it too much? With the current premium-member features, I can already create a "solved puzzles" bookmark list, and save much more private information about each cache than just its solved coordinates.

 

We'd just like to be able to include the solved coordinates (and possibly private notes, as others have suggested) in PQs.

 

If saving your solution in a bookmark is not good enough, then I pity you.

A simple bookmark list is probably fine if you solve a few puzzles and then go out and find them shortly thereafter. But when you solve a lot of puzzles that you can't go out and find for a while (read fizzymagic's last post), it would be nice to use PQs to track them, the way you can use PQs to track a large number of traditional caches.

[+fizzymagic]

Isn't this a 'Dead Horse' topic?

No.

 

Expecting the site to save a private set of co-ordinates for every user, for every puzzle/mystery cache is just too much.

Why?

 

If saving your solution in a bookmark is not good enough, then I pity you.

How would saving my solution in a bookmark help?

 

You really seem to have an attitude about this. I really, honestly, don't understand why it is so important to you that the site not be improved.

[+2FastLX]

Isn't this a 'Dead Horse' topic?

 

Expecting the site to save a private set of co-ordinates for every user, for every puzzle/mystery cache is just too much.

 

If saving your solution in a bookmark is not good enough, then I pity you.

 

Write it on the wall next to your comp.

Hmm. When I try that...

Create a Bookmark

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If you really pity me, go to my profile page...

 

2FastLX

 

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...

[+MYater]

Isn't this a 'Dead Horse' topic?

 

Expecting the site to save a private set of co-ordinates for every user, for every puzzle/mystery cache is just too much.

 

If saving your solution in a bookmark is not good enough, then I pity you.

 

Write it on the wall next to your comp.

Please try to put yourself in their shoes before pitting somebody!

 

I don't think this is a "Dead Horse topic" and I would love for GC.com to allow me to save my solved puzzle caches in a way that my bookmark could be created into a PQ. This forum is to identify desires as well as bugs/problems and this seems to be a largely wanted desire by the number of requests for something like this.

 

As it is I fill in the text on the bookmark and still have to manualy enter it into my handheld or the database on my comp.

 

Why not just enter it into my database in the first place you ask? I only operate on two personal computers at home and yes I can access the database from either of them.

 

Problem is that when I am boarded at work and work on puzzles, I don't have that database access.

 

I can't access my database when I solve a puzzle using a have a printed out version of the puzzle and can get to GC.com on my phone.

 

Maybe I will use one one of the many other computers that I have access to, but do not access to my master database at home.

 

As for the data stored on GC.com's server, I would hazard a question, how may bookmarks do you keep at any one time, and how many PQs do you have at that same time. The few bits of programing to create a routine that would allow fields on a bookmark to be exportable as a PQ would seem insignifignant compared to the amount of use that would be generated by that said function.

 

Do I think that this should be a PM feature? Yes, just as PQs and BMs are now it should stay a PM feature. If you are unwilling to purchase a PM I am sorry that you have made that desision, but we were all basic members at one time and all the PMs should remember that. I stayed a Basic Member until I reached 500 finds to make sure that I would stick with it and not throw my money away on something I wouldn't use.

 

Overall please keep snide coments to yourself. Nobody needs to know how mean people can be over a request.

 

MYater

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Just wondering what ways you envision this being implemented on the site. Can you give more details?

Edited September 18, 2009 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+webscouter.]

Just wondering what ways you envision this being implemented on the site. Can you give more details?

 

I would like to see a bookmark list that can be hidden In that list you could have notes that would be attached to the GPX file as additional logs, You could also have a solutions input box much like the box on this log has a waypoint. That solutions box would return an additional waypoint in the -wpts file with a name of xxGCcode.

 

Then when you got onsite you could just goto the xxGCcode waypoint as the solution of your puzzle.

[+niraD]

Just wondering what ways you envision this being implemented on the site. Can you give more details?

I think the easiest way to do it would be to make it part of the bookmarking system. When I bookmark a cache, I can enter a name (which defaults to the caches name), select a bookmark list, and enter comments (up to 1000 characters). Another field could be added for corrected coordinates.

 

I'd use this feature for mystery caches (solved puzzles), for multi-caches (when I can't get the next stage until later), for traditional caches (grandfathered traveling caches that are now far from where I found them), and possibly others.

 

You should still allow caches to be on multiple bookmark lists, but this raises the issue about having different corrected coordinates for different bookmarks for the same cache. Maybe each PM could get a single private "corrected coordinates" list that is allowed to have corrected coordinates, except that I might want a "solved puzzles" list (for caches I still need to find) and a separate "found puzzles" list (for caches I need to be aware of when checking my own hides vs the saturation guidelines).

 

This would be most useful if all PQs would pick up the corrected coordinates, and not just PQs against that particular bookmark list.

 

Another option might be to allow PMs to create private waypoints, but then you need a separate system to manage those private waypoints.

[+MYater]

Just wondering what ways you envision this being implemented on the site. Can you give more details?

I would want to see, like everybody else, a bookmark list created in the same fassion as we currently have. When we add a cache to the list it would ask for the name as it does now, as well as which list and the comments blocks, but there would need to be a checkbox to update coords as though we were logging a find on a cache or BM that was justifyable far off and needed an update on the coords.

 

When we would create a PQ on that BM it would override the listed coords with the coords that we created on it and the GPX or LOC file would have our listed coords as the treasurebox, and perhaps the posted coords as a waypoint instead.

 

When that specific Bookmark is created it would need to not be shared or public, and there would need to be another checkbox in the creation/editing page to "Allow Updated Coords". If either the shared or public checkboxes were selected then the Allow updated coords would become greyed out, and vice versa. This would prevent people from hijacking somebody elses work and getting the coords to a puzzle.

 

I am sure that it would require an amount of work to implement this kind of function, but I have enough knowledge that I can come up with some coding ideas that would at least begin to go that way, so I know it can be accomplished.

 

MYater

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Sounds interesting. I have no idea if the system is capable of incorporating that or not. Good luck.

[+FraCaMen]

I really like the idea!!!

[+dakboy]

When that specific Bookmark is created it would need to not be shared or public, and there would need to be another checkbox in the creation/editing page to "Allow Updated Coords". If either the shared or public checkboxes were selected then the Allow updated coords would become greyed out, and vice versa. This would prevent people from hijacking somebody elses work and getting the coords to a puzzle.

How about just hiding the updated coords from view for anyone but the owner of the the bookmark list? That way you don't have to choose between sharing the bookmark list and storing solved coordinates. Having to pick & choose which individual bookmarks in a list are public vs. private would be tedious - we can already select whether a list is public or not.

 

An extension of the existing bookmark system sounds like the path of lest resistance toward implementing this kind of functionality.

[+MYater]

When that specific Bookmark is created it would need to not be shared or public, and there would need to be another checkbox in the creation/editing page to "Allow Updated Coords". If either the shared or public checkboxes were selected then the Allow updated coords would become greyed out, and vice versa. This would prevent people from hijacking somebody elses work and getting the coords to a puzzle.

How about just hiding the updated coords from view for anyone but the owner of the the bookmark list? That way you don't have to choose between sharing the bookmark list and storing solved coordinates. Having to pick & choose which individual bookmarks in a list are public vs. private would be tedious - we can already select whether a list is public or not.

 

An extension of the existing bookmark system sounds like the path of lest resistance toward implementing this kind of functionality.

Even though this change would require abunch of coding, I was thinking that if the BM was unable to be shared then the coding wouldn't be needed to set the posted coords as the primary if somebody else created a PQ from your BM. It would just reduce the amount of coding and perhaps get it to a user level faster if it were implemented.

 

MYater

[+Arrow42]

Just wondering what ways you envision this being implemented on the site. Can you give more details?

 

I think the most graceful way to handle this (from a user-experience perspective) would be the ability for users to add private waypoints to a cache page. Then, whenever you run a PQ that includes that cache have those private waypoints be pulled like any other additional waypoint for a cache. The caveat being that a user can only see his or her own private waypoints.

 

I know I could be totally missing something in terms of back-end stuff, but it seems to me the logic and interface for this kind of system would be very simple to implement and the database structure already exists to store waypoints.

 

Trying to use bookmark lists to handle this... seems like a clunky non-intuitive way to implement it.

[AZcachemeister]

I'm not against improvements to the site in general, but with all the threads popping up about the 'upload to GPS' feature not working, I can only envision a bunch of threads about why the wrong co-ordinates were sent to someone's GPSr, despite confidence that the correct numbers were entered as the user-corrected co-ordinates for some cache or other.

 

People need to learn how to use their GPS units, and not rely on some (this) website to upload waypoints to it.

 

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Geocaching created as a diversion for EXPERIENCED GPSr users?

[+Arrow42]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Geocaching created as a diversion for EXPERIENCED GPSr users?

 

Yeah, we wouldn't want people to use geocaching as an educational experience.

[+RifleMan81]

I like the idea of being able to store the corrected waypoints to solved puzzles. Everytime I upload a PQ, my coords get overwritten and I have to readd them on the GPSr. I do have a private bookmark where I save the coords, but it's still time consuming re-adding them all the time.

[+Chrysalides]

I like the feature just so I can see where the puzzles actually are on the map, when I'm planning a caching trip. GSAK's Map Nearest is not as nice and feels slower.

 

Oh, and on another point discussed above, I looked up whois, and geochecker.com domain name is owned by Groundspeak.