Reply from Garmin 'helpdesk'

[+splashy]

Garmin Helpdesk wrote:

 

If there is a new chipset available for your Garmin unit then the Garmin

Webupdater will tell you so you download the correct set and do not harm

the unit.

 

They really have no clue what they are talking about or it's a robot to answer our questions.

[NordicMan]

Yeah gee I can't WAIT to see how Garmin is planning to upgrade HARDWARE over a web connection

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It's unfortunate that they were not helpful to you, but using insulting language isn't appropriate here.

[+coggins]

It's unfortunate that they were not helpful to you, but using insulting language isn't appropriate here.

Sounds like someone needs a 'time out'.

[Ken in Regina]

It's unfortunate that they were not helpful to you, but using insulting language isn't appropriate here.

Sorry, I must have missed something. I saw nothing insulting in the original post. Or did something get deleted that I missed?

 

I have often had the same reaction to email replies from Garmin tech support ... eg. that it's really a 'bot response. The alternatives seem only two: 1) the responder couldn't be bothered to actually read the trouble report or 2) the responder is technically untrained or illiterate in English or both.

 

Are there other explanations that would create a context in which the original post would be considered insulting rather than a simple analytical observation?

 

In fairness, at least a third of the time I have received literate and useful responses by email from Garmin.

 

On the occasions I have phoned to talk to a human, my positive responses go up to at least 80%. Eg. only 20% of my human voice contacts with Garmin have left me feeling that I just dealt with a robot or a human who was either technically ignorant or did not care.

 

And in further fairness to Garmin, they are far from having a monopoly on email tech support that sometimes seems to come from bots. Intuit (Quicken) email support is actually much much worse. When you try to phone them the first thing they want is your credit card number. And they have the audacity to refer to it as "Customer Support".

 

At least Garmin's telephone tech support is free.

 

So, To Splashy, cheer up ... it could be a lot worse.

 

...ken...

[robertlipe]

It's unfortunate that they were not helpful to you, but using insulting language isn't appropriate here.

Sorry, I must have missed something. I saw nothing insulting in the original post. Or did something get deleted that I missed?

Probably because a helpful moderator edited away the inappropriate name calling.

[Ken in Regina]

Sorry, I must have missed something. I saw nothing insulting in the original post. Or did something get deleted that I missed?

Probably because a helpful moderator edited away the inappropriate name calling.

Fair enough. If that was the case, my apology for the diatribe.

 

...ken...

[+hogrod]

Garmin Helpdesk wrote:

 

If there is a new chipset available for your Garmin unit then the Garmin

Webupdater will tell you so you download the correct set and do not harm

the unit.

 

Not sure why you even posted this....

 

I would say this was a human response....

 

Considering they only forgot one or two words that would have made the statement correct, add the words 'software update' between chipset and available.

 

You are not the first person I have seen point out someone being wrong saying chipset update, really though this is just your perception of what is correct and what isn't. If someone says to me use the webupdater(which I know only updates the unit software & chipset software) to get the new chipset update, I am never going to assume that somehow magically its going to send a new chip into my unit. I know exactly what they are saying, as you did and were just being an a** pointing out what you perceived as an error on their part.

 

Man I can't believe how anal some people are, don't you have something better to do? Does anyone reading Garmin's response not understand what they are saying?

[+Renegade Knight]

Garmin Helpdesk wrote:

 

If there is a new chipset available for your Garmin unit then the Garmin

Webupdater will tell you so you download the correct set and do not harm

the unit.

 

They really have no clue what they are talking about or it's a robot to answer our questions.

 

Obviously they were talking about firmware. Thankfully our brains can engage and fill in the right info when someone else says one thing but means another. Even more thankfully others do this for us when our turn comes.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

In fairness, at least a third of the time I have received literate and useful responses by email from Garmin....

 

I find this true of most email support. Too bad because it's my prefered method. I especially dislike sending them the steps I've taken and the results I've gotten in trying to solve the problem only to have them send back a new list consisting of most of the steps they already had answers too.

[Ken in Regina]

...

In fairness, at least a third of the time I have received literate and useful responses by email from Garmin....

 

I find this true of most email support. Too bad because it's my prefered method. I especially dislike sending them the steps I've taken and the results I've gotten in trying to solve the problem only to have them send back a new list consisting of most of the steps they already had answers too.

I know exactly what you mean. I performed, and later managed, internal tech support for nearly twenty years so I know the standard troubleshooting process. I've done enough beta testing for various products that I also know the generic troubleshooting processes that are standard at virtually every commercial help desk. I know what knowledgeable techs are looking for in a trouble report; I've answered the same set of questions a thousand times.

 

So it really picks me when I get sent a list of tests to perform that is a virtual mirror image of the list of tests and results I just submitted. It really makes you want to tear your hair out. ... And say rude things about the experience to anyone who will listen.

 

It's too bad the marketing folks don't pay more attention to the impressions the tech support operation is making on existing customers and how many sales it may be costing them. Tech support contacts with customers are second only to advertising contacts and probably leave a stronger impression of the "goodness" of the product.

 

This is one area where some automobile companies have it all over the electronics industries. When I take my car in for service, whether it's routine maintenance or repairs, I always get a followup phone call or email to see how my service experience was. This gives them a gauge of my happiness with both the product and the support. From the questions they ask, it's clear that they care at least as much about my service experience as they do about my impression of the vehicle quality.

 

This is a subject that's pretty much right on topic because the most common question in this section of the forum is "Help, which GPS should I buy?" Many of the folks asking that question will be basing their final selection on our tech support experiences with various manufacturers as well as the technical goodies contained in the devices.

 

...ken...

Edited July 8, 2009 by Ken in Regina

[Barnie's Band of Gold]

This is a subject that's pretty much right on topic because the most common question in this section of the forum is "Help, which GPS should I buy?" Many of the folks asking that question will be basing their final selection on our tech support experiences with various manufacturers as well as the technical goodies contained in the devices.

...ken...

Well I sincerely hope no one buys a Magellan instead of a Garmin due to this thread!

[+bittsen]

This is a subject that's pretty much right on topic because the most common question in this section of the forum is "Help, which GPS should I buy?" Many of the folks asking that question will be basing their final selection on our tech support experiences with various manufacturers as well as the technical goodies contained in the devices.

...ken...

Well I sincerely hope no one buys a Magellan instead of a Garmin due to this thread!

 

It's funny. If you look around on this forum you don't see anyone complaining about Magellan as much as Garmin.

Is it because Garmin isn't as good as Magellan? Hmmm?

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It's unfortunate that they were not helpful to you, but using insulting language isn't appropriate here.

Sorry, I must have missed something. I saw nothing insulting in the original post. Or did something get deleted that I missed?

Probably because a helpful moderator edited away the inappropriate name calling.

 

Yes, thank you to the helpful moderator people! <3 as the kids say!

[+ReadyOrNot]

This is a subject that's pretty much right on topic because the most common question in this section of the forum is "Help, which GPS should I buy?" Many of the folks asking that question will be basing their final selection on our tech support experiences with various manufacturers as well as the technical goodies contained in the devices.

...ken...

Well I sincerely hope no one buys a Magellan instead of a Garmin due to this thread!

 

It's funny. If you look around on this forum you don't see anyone complaining about Magellan as much as Garmin.

Is it because Garmin isn't as good as Magellan? Hmmm?

 

It's the same reason everyone in the world complains about the United States... We happen to be the greatest, free-est country in the world, but it's always easier to pick on the successful, big guy....

[+bittsen]

It's funny. If you look around on this forum you don't see anyone complaining about Magellan as much as Garmin.

Is it because Garmin isn't as good as Magellan? Hmmm?

 

It's the same reason everyone in the world complains about the United States... We happen to be the greatest, free-est country in the world, but it's always easier to pick on the successful, big guy....

 

OK, I will put it in my own perspective.

I have owned a Magellan. I now own a Garmin Colorado.

My Magellan was, by far, a more stable unit. Out of the box it didn't need upgrades. Out of the box it worked fine and still works today.

I only purchased the Garmin for paperless caching. I am disappointed with my purchase.

 

Picking on the big, more successful guy? Not even close to why I complain about Garmin.

[+briansnat]

This is a subject that's pretty much right on topic because the most common question in this section of the forum is "Help, which GPS should I buy?" Many of the folks asking that question will be basing their final selection on our tech support experiences with various manufacturers as well as the technical goodies contained in the devices.

...ken...

Well I sincerely hope no one buys a Magellan instead of a Garmin due to this thread!

 

It's funny. If you look around on this forum you don't see anyone complaining about Magellan as much as Garmin.

Is it because Garmin isn't as good as Magellan? Hmmm?

 

No, it's because nobody buys Magellans anymore.

 

Do a forum search on Magellan customer or Magellan service and you'll see countless horror stories and do a similar searh on Garmin you'll see numerous threads praising Garmin's customer service.

 

no matter how good a company's customer service is, someone is bound to be disappointed. I've had a few bad experiences with DeLorme, yet people constantly praise their wonderful support. I've rarely however seen a manufacturer of any product that receives the consistent complaints and low marks that Magellan receives. Look around.

Edited July 9, 2009 by briansnat

[+splashy]

My org heading included Garmin Helpdesk > RETARDS <

 

Has nothing to do with name calling, it's what they are on the moment and I see no reason why in a free world I should not say this.

[Haitoman]

My org heading included Garmin Helpdesk > RETARDS <

 

Has nothing to do with name calling, it's what they are on the moment and I see no reason why in a free world I should not say this.

 

I agree that the helpdesk are not being 'helpful'. I am not easily fooled...I know a software fudge to mask a firmware issue when I see one. There are three major issues for me:

 

1. Random track deviations (Masked by software kludges)

2. Sticky map refresh (Inefficient code)

3. Unacceptably clunky interface (Unoptimised code)

 

The minor bugs I can live with as part of the beta cycle.

 

This really smacks of contract developers with insufficient resources to do the job properly.

FIX IT GARMIN....YOUR DEVELOPERS ARE LETTING YOUR NAME DOWN ON THIS ONE....

[robertlipe]

Moderator's note The repeated disrespectful name-calling in this thread and in this forums needs to stop now.

[ZeMartelo]

I think the problem with Garmin is that they have too many devices to support and the timeframe between new devices is very short.

Oregon is barely one year old that Garmin already has new models coming out.

Of course resources that were devoted to the Oregon will be shifted to the Dakotas now.

Same thing happened with the Colorado and the 60csx and so on.

Edited July 9, 2009 by ZeMartelo

[+TotemLake]

My org heading included Garmin Helpdesk > RETARDS <

 

Has nothing to do with name calling, it's what they are on the moment and I see no reason why in a free world I should not say this.

Because you are on a business website being in the free world has nothing to do with the guidelines set for chatting it up here. You can say anything you want on the sidewalk. Here, you are required to follow the guidelines. You're a step away from more stern action if you don't tone down your posts. Make use of a thesaurus. You'll be surprised at what you can come up with instead of a derogatory name. Sophomoric comes to mind.

 

However, I believe your post ignores one significant thing about businesses doing business on the Internet. Support can come from anywhere. It is likely the auto-response was written by someone whose second language is English. Grammatical errors on a response such as the one you quoted does not necessarily equate a diminished intelligence. On the other hand, your intolerance and perhaps ignorance to the global nature of Garmin's business model indicates something else altogether. A little retrospection is probably in order.

[+Chris CA]

Probably because a helpful moderator edited away the inappropriate name calling.

If so, then the "helpful" moderator should have also added "post edited by moderator" or something similar, regardles of what was edited.

If the post is not what the original poster wrote, then it should state something to that effect..

Edited July 9, 2009 by chrisca

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It was the title of the thread that was edited, not the post itself.

[+Chris CA]

It was the title of the thread that was edited, not the post itself.

If you were responding to me, what's your point?

If the post (or the title of the post ) was edited by someone other than the original poster, it should state that.

[+splashy]

I use Garmin from the 65 model, later I used the 12Xl for a long time and was very happy with it.

Bought a Colorado last year and had a free switch to a Oregon because the Colorado didn't work well, since then we had about 10 updates making the Gps the king of his kind, But every update didn't resolve some base errors still in the Oregon and I'm not talking about the issues list @

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/

 

Now, if this was a new car and I was complaining because the wheel was a bit pulling or we had difficulty opening the window and 50 60 % of us had the same, would you call me ignorant or intolerant if the dealer told me to change fuel brand?

I Am tolerant, because I kept the gps with the shortcomings and yes, it works fine for me, but why is people trying to mute me if I complain about the 'helpdesk'?

 

The reason why I started this posting is to shock and wake up Garmin in the hope they do a better aftersales job.

 

When I look at the reactions I must have hit a nerve, I received also a PM from a moderator.

At the end I'm not sure what the real problem is, an unkind word or being unkind about the holy grail of gps, Garmin.

[+TotemLake]

I use Garmin from the 65 model, later I used the 12Xl for a long time and was very happy with it.

Bought a Colorado last year and had a free switch to a Oregon because the Colorado didn't work well, since then we had about 10 updates making the Gps the king of his kind, But every update didn't resolve some base errors still in the Oregon and I'm not talking about the issues list @

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/

 

Now, if this was a new car and I was complaining because the wheel was a bit pulling or we had difficulty opening the window and 50 60 % of us had the same, would you call me ignorant or intolerant if the dealer told me to change fuel brand?

I Am tolerant, because I kept the gps with the shortcomings and yes, it works fine for me, but why is people trying to mute me if I complain about the 'helpdesk'?

 

The reason why I started this posting is to shock and wake up Garmin in the hope they do a better aftersales job.

 

When I look at the reactions I must have hit a nerve, I received also a PM from a moderator.

At the end I'm not sure what the real problem is, an unkind word or being unkind about the holy grail of gps, Garmin.

I can't tell if you did it on purpose or not, but you certainly missed the point of my post. So instead of getting sucked in. Adieu

[+kallt_kaffe]

I must admit that after having tried to ask technical questions myself to the Garmin support I am not at all surprised with the answer you got. My guess is that they outsourced the support to save money.

 

I myself asked about WAAS/EGNOS and the Nüvi 2x5 models as the swedish garmin site did (and in fact still do) claim that these models are WAAS/EGNOS-enabled.

 

The first reply was this:

I must let you know that EGNOS is still being tested therefore when it is on it only partially works so the signal is not strong enough.

 

I politely answered that an old eXplorist 100 (that I also had at the time) often got EGNOS lock even though the Nüvi usually had a better satellite reception.

 

So the second reply was this:

From the scale of numbers 33 to 45 will adquire EGNOS in old units such

as Nuvi 3xxx and 6xxx series. These units don't have a Hot Fix signal

feature built in that is why they have EGNOS/ WAAS enable. Your unit

Nuvi 205 has Hot Fix feature. It adquire satellite signal in seconds

that is the reason why in the nuvi 2x5 series there is no icon to enable

EGNOS OR WAAS as a choice.They are not compatible with this system

because they don't need it.

 

I then explained the difference between HotFix and WAAS/EGNOS and even linked to their own FAQ. I also explained that the swedish website was using false advertising (which I doubt is legal) since the 2x5 model obviously do not support WAAS/EGNOS.

 

I never got an answer to my last email and they didn't even bother do change the swedish website. It is still wrong even though this mailconversation took place almost 5 months ago.

 

So I agree on that Garmin support doesn't know what they are doing, or at least some of them do not. Instead of forwarding my question to someone who actually could answer me they obviously tried to send me a bunch of lies and hope that I would fall for it. As a customer I found that very insulting and I wouldn't bother to try to ask them for help again.

[+bittsen]

I use Garmin from the 65 model, later I used the 12Xl for a long time and was very happy with it.

Bought a Colorado last year and had a free switch to a Oregon because the Colorado didn't work well, since then we had about 10 updates making the Gps the king of his kind, But every update didn't resolve some base errors still in the Oregon and I'm not talking about the issues list @

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/

 

Now, if this was a new car and I was complaining because the wheel was a bit pulling or we had difficulty opening the window and 50 60 % of us had the same, would you call me ignorant or intolerant if the dealer told me to change fuel brand?

I Am tolerant, because I kept the gps with the shortcomings and yes, it works fine for me, but why is people trying to mute me if I complain about the 'helpdesk'?

 

The reason why I started this posting is to shock and wake up Garmin in the hope they do a better aftersales job.

 

When I look at the reactions I must have hit a nerve, I received also a PM from a moderator.

At the end I'm not sure what the real problem is, an unkind word or being unkind about the holy grail of gps, Garmin.

 

Maybe the moderator owns stock in garmin.

 

 

I am so disappointed with Garmin, I don't know how they are in business.

The apparant outsourcing of programming and help desk services is indicative of what is wrong with businesses today. Ineffective help desks would NEVER jeapordize their contracts by informing their customers (in this case, Garmin) that their customer service, or help services suck. That would be cutting their own throats.

 

It is also my policy when trying to find other serveces. If I get a phone tree, I move on. If I get someone who is obviously a front, I won't do businees with them. If a human, who works in the company, answers the phone, I will be more inclined to do business with them.

[robertlipe]

Ahem. The moderator does not own stock in Garmin.

 

The moderator was responding to numerous 'report this post' complaints by reminding that the Forum Guidelines say "Groundspeak and the global geocaching community encourage contributors who are courteous, polite and respectful. We discourage those who choose to behave in a disrespectful and/or irresponsible manner. Groundspeak, its staff and volunteer moderators will take appropriate steps to ensure discussions adhere to these guidelines."

 

Complain away, but without the name-calling.

 

Yes, I edited away to the one word that was in the subtitle and I said I did it. I didn't insert a [ this spot intentionally made blank by the moderator ] marker.

 

Signed,

The Moderator.