What's YOUR solution?

[+tsunrisebey]

I haven't started a topic in a long time as a matter of fact I have slowed my posting down alot over the months. There's another thread that is going right now but I think that thread has crossed the line and has now become a; "What's wrong with geocoins" thread.

 

Now I could easily go back and drum up some old threads where we have discussed it to death but since we're dealing with some different times/situations, let's start a new one and see how colorful this thread can get

 

Much like political discussions, everyone has an opinion on what should be done yet I don't see the people who are complaining running for local office or out there in the world trying to make these changes they are talking about. If you're busy flapping your gums then you aren't busy in the real world doing what it takes to affect big change.

 

Now let's convert this to coin talk. Here are some of the things I read about alot and I want to know what YOU are going to do about it to make an impact?

 

* Originality: Often heard coins aren't original. Now I'm not saying there aren't some bland coins but when I see coins I see quite a bit of originality. I've seen some very clever ideas even if they aren't mys style of coin, I really dig some of the stuff I see. I hand-draw my stuff, I can't even copy and paste or photoshop off of other designs. SO... for those with complaints on originality my suggestion would be to design some original coins, whatever you feel is original. Then put your design out there for a vote on originality. Let's see what the overwhelming consensus is. If YOU are one of the people who is concerned about originality, please advise the rest of us or show us by example what you consider original. I'm just saying....

 

*Caching related: Oh yes! A wonderful subject and heated debate provoking subject You gotta love some of the old threads about this! I'll keep this simple, if you are complaining about coins being non-caching related, advise the rest of us on what we should be designing/minting to make it caching related. Better yet, design and mint those caching related coins your self Wait a minute you're not artisitic or creative? No worries, you just do your best So what are YOUR solutions for more caching related coins? Better yet, someone define caching related for me, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what that means

 

*Price: Oh you want cheap coins huh? Well, have I got a solution for you Seriously, people want a good price and I can even understand that. However, as I've said before, this ain't a cheap hobby. If it were everyone would be minting coins. What's YOUR solution for cheap coins? One of mine would be to mint your own coin and then offer it up for sale at cost

 

(side note: I think a bit more respect on this issue is in order - it is alot of work for a person doing their first coin, can you imagine the work it is for the rest of us who have alot more issues to pay for than envelopes and a trip to the post office? Man I could rattle off the costs associated with this venture that would make your head spin. These designs would command far more money outside the geocoin world, I don't think too many people are getting screwed over price wise).

 

Feel free to add any solution you have on how to make geocoins better. I prefer to see a solution that is action based of course Don't give some fluff answer, give us something concrete. I for one want to see an original coin that is caching related that is cheap!

 

This should be FUN

Edited July 7, 2009 by tsunrisebey

[+Hula Bum]

I saw the start of this thread and was curious, but then I kept reading.

 

IMO it doesn't look like you're looking for solutions, just wanting to rant. Which, by the way is perfectly ok, but not in line with the title.

[+earthrooster]

Well, first we could ... no wait, that's been done. Hmmm. Oh! I know! I can, um, er... well, uh...

 

Ah, never mind. I don't have a solution so I'll shaddap arready

 

Tsun, you as well as others make some great coins - pieces of art, as far as I'm concerned. Thank you all for that you do.

 

There, that's my .02 worth

Edited July 8, 2009 by earthrooster

[+tsunrisebey]

I saw the start of this thread and was curious, but then I kept reading.

 

IMO it doesn't look like you're looking for solutions, just wanting to rant. Which, by the way is perfectly ok, but not in line with the title.

 

If I wanted to rant, I would have done it You should know by now that I don't have a problem speaking my mind as do you

 

I want solutions.

 

I just tried to post in a way that kept it more humorous versus animosity based. I'm waiting for your solution or were you just trying to "call me out"?

[+Kealia]

Happen to still be online so I'll step up enough to say that I stand by the coins that I've done in the past.

 

Some were for our coin club (at the time), some were for the local caching group, our personal had our avatars on them, my Fizzy coin is certainly caching related as was my Deathmarch coin.

 

Have I been through the process? Yep, many times.

Do I feel I have enough experience to speak my opinion? Yep.

Am I going to re-hash everything in here for the umpteenth time? Nope. Just tired of it. Those that share my thoughts stay in touch and those are the people that I am closest to and chat with about coins at this point.

 

Am I saying I am better than everybody else? Absolutely not. Just that maybe that the majority of folks in here don't agree with my thoughts and it gets old after a while seeing everything through rose-colored glasses. That's simply not a discussion IMO.

 

So, while I certainly agree with "put up or shut up", I've put up.

[+Chickahominy]

I'm going to jump in with my two cents... (having not read entirely the "other" thread).

 

Tsun, your coins are beautiful AND they ARE a work of art. The originality of your art shows. Perhaps that is why they are so wildly popular. There are other coins out there that are beautiful pieces of art, and they also are sought after and command high prices. Remember the laws of supply and demand?

 

I'm not sure either what "cache related" means, or where that phrase came from.

 

It's a free world, a free geocaching community and everyone / anyone is able to design, make their own coin. I'm in the process of minting two coins at the moment. I am having a go with the mint and graphic artist to make sure my coin is original. I have been sent back artwork that is just cut and paste, which is unacceptable to me for my coin. Having no artistic skills, I am limited to what I can convey through words to the mint. I can see how some people design/ have designed coins that aren't quite as artistic as those minted by the coiners with true artistic skills. The whole process isn't as easy as it looks.

 

I have spent a lot (A LOT) of money on coins since January. I have purchased the artistic coins because I admire their beauty and their theme. I have bought "fun" coins that don't have much to them art wise, but they make me smile.

 

To each his own. It takes all kinds to make the world go around and there is room for all types of coins. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Someone else will !

 

Now.. where can I go to get in on a thread about ways to be a good steward of Earth other than CITO?

[+007BigD]

Whats wrong with geocoins???? Well, thats reletive and depends greatly on the source of your answer.

 

In my opinion and for me, its more like whats wrong with 2000+ geocoins! DUDE... (can I say WTF here~nevermind) WHY do I need more! I mean geeze...ive got a ton! I went through and weeded out my keepers and STILL have a ton! Its kinda hard for me to actually buy coins anymore...thats hard earned money!

 

I try to trade more these days with the tons of coinage I have...I also appeal to less coins than I once did.

 

SO...if you want my solution for my problem, that would be...Burn my entire geocoin collection! Then id buy more coins ....Not really, id be quite heartbroken and probably become a hermit.

 

PS Collectability and rarity are an extreme plus. I LOVE special coins, no matter which way they may be special. And Kealia.... I need to check on your well rounded challenge cache, JUST TO SEE if I may still have a chance! That'd get me crackin on numbers!

 

edit.... NOPE, 25 well rounded finders prior to the last 5 got the prize BUT, IM sure a determinned well rounded cacher could get in on one How bout a Deathmarch v2???

Edited July 7, 2009 by 007BigD

[+joranda]

Hopefully there is a reason behind everyones design of their coin but I have seen some to where I wonder what was they thinking. I have made three different coins so far and I know how deep it can get into your pockets. Most coins that I have bought has been a fair price you just have to get them before they sell out cause when they do, the price always goes to the unfair side but that is the nature of the beast. T-sun, I have read your posts in the other thread and I feel the same way you do. At least you say it the way it is.

[+Hula Bum]

Nope, not trying to call you out at all. I've put up many many times. I can't think of a coin we've done that I'm not proud of.

 

When there was no money to be made in it and people were using coins for sig items, it was always caching related, as they were generally personal coins and thus by nature connected.

 

When they became a source of income, they went downhill for me, plain and simple. The tie in doesn't have to be an ammo can or a gps, but now everything and anything is made with a piece of metal and slapped with a tracking number. Personally, I'm seriously old school and still just like 'em round.

 

Not sure what solutions you're looking for, it's morphed into something else because there was a large enough group to support that change. For those of us that don't like it, we just left it and enjoy the good ole' days as we saw them. For those that are buying now, this is their hay day.

[+tsunrisebey]

Happen to still be online so I'll step up enough to say that I stand by the coins that I've done in the past.

 

Some were for our coin club (at the time), some were for the local caching group, our personal had our avatars on them, my Fizzy coin is certainly caching related as was my Deathmarch coin.

 

Have I been through the process? Yep, many times.

Do I feel I have enough experience to speak my opinion? Yep.

Am I going to re-hash everything in here for the umpteenth time? Nope. Just tired of it. Those that share my thoughts stay in touch and those are the people that I am closest to and chat with about coins at this point.

 

Am I saying I am better than everybody else? Absolutely not. Just that maybe that the majority of folks in here don't agree with my thoughts and it gets old after a while seeing everything through rose-colored glasses. That's simply not a discussion IMO.

 

So, while I certainly agree with "put up or shut up", I've put up.

 

Ok, I've read what you wrote.

 

I've seen your deathmarch and fizzy coin, definitely caching related. No issues there by any means and I have a cache only coin myself and I completely admire these types of coins. Done for the sheer pleasure of the hobby.

 

I've even have your K9 coins in my collection. So what makes that coin caching related? Is it the ammo can? Seriously, isn't "cahing related" subjective? I cache with my dogs that's pretty well known, one even has his own account. Now for the sake of discussion, what happens if I design a dog related coin. There is no hint of any type of cache on the coin, it's just a drawing of a puppy. I got creative in my artwork and made it a very unique design. Now, let's also say I did the coin because I love caching with my dogs and that's the tie in but I chose not to make it with an ammo can (you get the idea here?). So, to me or other K9 companion cachers this is very caching related but to a non K9 person this has nothing to do with caching for them. My point being when people complain about noncaching related coins, I don't understand that (98% of the time). I will conceed that there have been coins that I couldn't even find a glimmer of a connection but that doesn't bother me. When I cache it's all Mother Nature related for me, what I see, what I feel and I try to express that in a unique way when designing coins. You may not see the relevance of caching but others do (general terms here). So I don't see how people can go around saying what is and what isn't caching related or you can but it's individual opinion only. So there really isn't a solution to designing more caching related coins is there? Or is there?

 

What I'm looking for here is a solution to the complaints for each of the above. I'm assuming that your solution to the caching related coins is you developed your own coins that one can only get by accomplishing a caching related task. However you are still a coin customer (at least for 1 company that I am aware of ) and you have stated a number of times that coins aren't caching related so you have no interest in them but what makes those coins caching related or special enough to garner your attention but what the rest of designers are doing does not get your notice? I could ask this question of anyone but I'm replying to you. If you are still a customer even if it's on a limited basis you must have some idea/solution on what makes a coin caching related and suited to your interest

[+Fiery Searcher]

I've not designed a coin (although there is one in my head and I would really like to act on it this year! shhhhh) and although I've read through the pinned threads at the top of these forums, I still feel completely naive about the entire process. The "what's wrong with geocoins" tone of some recent threads I think is possibly a good start to the "what is/are your solution(s)" answer. After all, you can't really solve a problem until it has been identified, can you? There is definitely a fine line between presenting a perceived problem and complaining incessantly, I see this. I guess in defense of some gum-flappers everywhere, sometimes the best solutions begin with a conversation, some collaboration, and then a little forward momentum to (hopefully) bring positive ideas to fruition.

 

There's really nothing wrong (or right) with geocoins themselves - they are inanimate objects. But as 007BigD stated, the variety of perspectives here and the many ways you can examine geocoins make for good discussion material indeed. I look forward to learning something!

 

Now.. where can I go to get in on a thread about ways to be a good steward of Earth other than CITO?

I think there is a thread on that topic here, but sadly a lack of opinions to the contrary.

[+Hula Bum]

What's caching related is what applies to the masses if you're looking for a definition. We cache(d) with our goldies and shepherds (the inspiration behind those), we took group input and came up with the bloodhound on behalf of some long time cachers and the weiner dog was in honor of moun10bike (the dog head is actually artwork from his dog. A whole lot of people cache with their furry friends, that was the thought behind that. Once again though, these were pre the frenzy and the first ones weren't even trackable, just sig items for us dog/cacher teams.

 

I understand what you're saying and nothing is going to be cache related to everyone all the time. I think if it is cache related to some people some of the time then there you go. Of course personals are completely on their own. I have a snow coin that is quite meaningful to the person who gave it to me, but caching in the snow is something I rarely do. It's still cache related even though it doesn't apply to me. Don't know if I'm making any sense at all.

 

Edit to add-my solution.... go back to all non trackable, round, found in caches or traded. Ok, so I didn't say it was reasonable.....

Edited July 7, 2009 by Hula Bum

[+Hula Bum]

As to the one coin in my collection that I have kept up on, yes, it's the compass rose. It was one of the original coins that I loved and to me navigation has everything to do with geocaching. I'm not a "collector" per se, but I love what these represent to me in relation to caching. I just haven't seen anything else that I can say the same thing about. I was excited about the earth cache coin too as we've done a lot of them lately, though was less than excited by the finished product. Oh well, can't have it all! Sorry, I know the question was directed to kealia, but I fall under the same situation.

[+Hula Bum]

LOL at 007, deathmarch V2, you're funny. I took the last bunch and threw them off the pier!

 

Sorry.... back to your regularly scheduled topic.

[+Droo]

Gosh this is like getting consensus from the community to standardize attitudes.... ain't gonna happen. One coiner's peeve over originality is another's taste for more of the same. Take pirates.... how many different pirate coins can the market bear? I luv 'em and can't get enough but why must we have so many scouting coins, or religious coins or ....?? Likewise, how many turtles can the market bear? Or frogs? Or motorcycles? To each his/her own so forget about consensus.

 

Caching related? I never would have thought 4 legged companions are caching related but never thought they are just as relevant to dog people as motorcycles are to me! What do motorcycles have to do with geocaching? I for one geocache by motorcycle so they are caching related to me... but not to someone who hates them. I guess anything someone does while caching is caching related so even flying pigs have a place to those who think of them while hiking or caching.

 

Cheap? Again, a relative topic. A simple slug of 2D metal with a chronically simple design for $15 is not something I'd buy. But I've read that there are those who are attracted to that sort of thing and find it well worth the price. Live and let live. However I hope we're not talking about the secondary market where I've seen a micro coin still available from the vendour at nearly half the price of the shipping and handling surcharge imposed by the auction seller.

 

I've not produced a coin so I can't speak for anyone who has. If it's a labour of love it'll show and I suspect the response to it would come in direct correlation. And if it's just crass commercialism at extortive prices I'd expect the same to apply. So I tip my hat to those companies trying to make an honest buck and those designers who keep it in perspective and don't aspire to have their products shown in the Smithsonian or Guggenheim.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

There is no solution just resolution.

 

We all just have to live with change cause things never stay the same.

[+cache_in_hand]

2 cents here LOL, Especially since I can usually never resist poking my nose in things much to my wife's chagrin at times. Maybe I should not call this my 2 cents, but a tease instead. We have 2 coins in production right now and I will offer them both for your scrutiny, but you have to wait like everyone else to see them. One is a non trackable personal coin which I assure you will be inexpensive to the tune that we will probably just trade or give most of them away. The second is certainly caching related for those of us who have slid, scraped, flown, crashed, and bushwhacked their way to a tupperware container full of junk with a logbook. I can assure you also that we are planning to sell this coin for an amount that will probably not even recoup our cost of minting and mailing. But then again, you will just have to wait and see! I don't think most of you will be disappointed, but I would fully understand if some were. We all have our choices and perferences. Have I set the hook? Now only time will tell. These will only be our second and third coins ever minted and it won't be about the money, but rather the thrill of seeing our coins being cherished and sought by others just as addicted as us. So there it is..... and at least an effort whether succesfull or not.

Edited July 8, 2009 by cache_in_hand

[+ThirstyMick]

Since it came in the mail, I've had this GIANT green turtle with incredible detail and a little baby attached to it sitting on my desk. I don't remember exactly what it cost, $12 or something? I remember you saying it wouldn't sell so fast because it was expensive and I distinctly remember thinking that you were crazy. Yes costs have gone up. Yes there are other costs than simply the raw cost of the coin. Yes people deserve to be paid for their work. I think what you charge is reasonable and fair.

 

But, a 1.5" round coin with 5 colors selling for $15? I've seen it and it's absurd. People not doing things like that is my solution I think the one I mentioned in the other thread that was $16 was 1.75" and only had a few colors. It was a very pretty design, but priced too high for me to be willing to buy.

 

I remember being shocked at how cheap Atwell Family's butterflies were when I got a set of three, I think they ended up being $7 each. Shipped. A hinged coin. There are plenty of examples of reasonably priced coins, so I'm not sure why some people charge what they do. I guess b/c they can. I'm not sure why people pay it. Maybe this will change with the slowing economy.

 

As far as originality? I don't know, a lot of designs have been done and it's hard to come up with something totally new. What I prefer in a coin is to see some passion. Something meaningful to the designer. Not just to whip something up to sell. Turtles had been done before you made your first earth turtle but your design was so original and so incredibly from your heart that no one could argue it was unoriginal! Passion, that's what I like to see

 

My solution? I'm *finally* making my personal coin. All of the elements on it have a lot of meaning to me, so it's a pretty personal personal coin. Maybe some elements are similar to other coins, flowers and knotwork have been on coins before... in fact, I waited so long to make it b/c when I started on the design 2 years ago, a coin with similar elements came out. And cheap? It won't be sold. I'll trade some, give some away, and a bunch will end up in caches.. In theory, to be traded for!

 

2 cents here LOL, Especially since I can usually never resist poking my nose in things much to my wife's chagrin at times. Maybe I should not call this my 2 cents, but a tease instead. We have 2 coins in production right now and I will offer them both for your scrutiny, but you have to wait like everyone else to see them. One is a non trackable personal coin which I assure you will be inexpensive to the tune that we will probably just trade or give most of them away. The second is certainly caching related for those of us who have slid, scraped, flown, crashed, and bushwhacked their way to a tupperware container full of junk with a logbook. I can assure you also that we are planning to sell this coin for an amount that will probably not even recoup our cost of minting and mailing. But then again, you will just have to wait and see! I don't think most of you will be disappointed, but I would fully understand if some were. We all have our choices and perferences. Have I set the hook? Now only time will tell. These will only be our second and third coins ever minted and it won't be about the money, but rather the thrill of seeing our coins being cherished and sought by others just as addicted as us. So there it is..... and at least an effort whether succesfull or not.

 

I can't wait to see them!!!

[ATMouse]

I have (and always will) vote with my wallet when it comes to geocoins.

 

I suspect others do, too.

[+MustangJoni]

2 cents here LOL, Especially since I can usually never resist poking my nose in things much to my wife's chagrin at times. Maybe I should not call this my 2 cents, but a tease instead. We have 2 coins in production right now and I will offer them both for your scrutiny, but you have to wait like everyone else to see them. One is a non trackable personal coin which I assure you will be inexpensive to the tune that we will probably just trade or give most of them away. The second is certainly caching related for those of us who have slid, scraped, flown, crashed, and bushwhacked their way to a tupperware container full of junk with a logbook. I can assure you also that we are planning to sell this coin for an amount that will probably not even recoup our cost of minting and mailing. But then again, you will just have to wait and see! I don't think most of you will be disappointed, but I would fully understand if some were. We all have our choices and perferences. Have I set the hook? Now only time will tell. These will only be our second and third coins ever minted and it won't be about the money, but rather the thrill of seeing our coins being cherished and sought by others just as addicted as us. So there it is..... and at least an effort whether succesfull or not.

 

I can't wait to see them!

[+DresselDragons]

Okay…here’s my take, for what it is worth.

 

Originality – Back in the day, it was easy to come up with an original idea. There were not that many designs. Now, that is not the case. One of the things that irks me is when someone comes out with a design that is almost identical to someone else’s. My solution…Anyone designing a coin SHOULD research what is out there before charging ahead with an idea. Even then, there is no guarantee that two similar ideas will not pop up. When ours was set to be released, another coin came out with the same John Muir quote that we used on our coin. But, if you actually look at what is out there first, you are at least making an informed decision as to whether or not to proceed.

 

Caching Related – I am not a dog person, so, to me, the dog coins were not caching related. However, I can see where they would be to someone else. I think this topic is very subjective. I have never been one to say on a regular basis, “It is not caching related, so I am not interested”. I tend to gravitate towards those that relate to caching or nature, and am will to part with my $$ for those. A coin of a theme park ride (for example), although it may be pretty, would fall into the non-caching related category for me and would not be something I would spend my $$ on. Maybe designers should look at why they are designing a coin. If they are doing it because it is their personal coin or they are passionate about the subject matter, than, does it really matter if it is caching-related (or what other people think)?

 

Price – I don’t know what to say here. I remember when the coins were $5-6 plus shipping. Designs have become more intricate, and I can see the prices becoming more elevated because of it, and there is the matter of inflation. I also think that market drives the price (partially)…people were charging more for coins, and they paid it. Had those coins not sold at the higher price, than maybe the costs might not have doubled over the past few years. The elevated prices became the status quo, and there probably is no going back now…unless the bottom drops out of the market. Times have changed, prices have changed, people have changed. When it comes to price, buy what you can afford, and try to trade for what you cannot.

[+larry739]

I saw the start of this thread and was curious, but then I kept reading.

 

IMO it doesn't look like you're looking for solutions, just wanting to rant. Which, by the way is perfectly ok, but not in line with the title.

 

If I wanted to rant, I would have done it You should know by now that I don't have a problem speaking my mind as do you

 

I want solutions.

 

I just tried to post in a way that kept it more humorous versus animosity based. I'm waiting for your solution or were you just trying to "call me out"?

 

Well. That did not take long. Already first post back is negative and personal. I am so glad to see this forum getting some of its old pazazz back.

 

Personally, I think tsun is just being tsun. You wicked girl. You have a way about you. I love it.

 

Regarding the topic I am not sure I am too awfully emotionally committed to an opinion on design price and other stuff like geocaching. I am constantly amazed at the variety I see pouring forth from the coin people. I am frequently frustrated by my inability to keep up or be able to obtain all of the geocoins I would like to have but you know I no longer get depressed upset or otherwise disappointed over it. The flood of coins is so great I long ago gave up on trying to stay ahead of the curve. It is sort of like caching. It starts out exciting, becomes obsessive, then mellows into a plateau of personal preference. I am up here on the plateau now and you know anything is possible at 5280 feet above sealevel. So tsun, you go girl, I love you.

[+Jackalgirl]

I have (and always will) vote with my wallet when it comes to geocoins.

 

I suspect others do, too.

 

Yes. At least, this is how I do it, too. People come to geocaching and enjoy all kinds of different types of caches; some like hunting them, some like hiding them. For some, it's the fun of racking up the numbers. For others, its communing with nature, or solving puzzles, or the opportunity to get out and about with the family, or or or or. If you go into the "Geocaching Topics" Forum you'll see all kinds of debates about what geocaching "should be" (read: it should be exactly what the individual poster at the time likes to do) and all that you really get from all of the argument is: people do it for different reasons.

 

Same thing with coins, I think. Some people like personals. Some people like their coins to tie directly into geocaching. Some people enjoy more indirect themes. Some people like coins that support agendas, or are fascinated by the trackable aspect of them, or enjoy trying to find coins that push the boundaries of what can be called "coin".

 

Just as geocaching should, IMO, never EVER be locked into one type of activity, geocoins should never EVER be locked into ridgid requirements. Vote with your wallet -- either as a buyer or designer or maker. Don't worry that other people enjoy something you don't -- you do your own thing and enjoy it.

 

I see that there have been several repliers who have done exactly that. Awesome!

 

In short (and finally responding to the OP): there is no problem to be solved.

 

However, I think that Tsun is quite right in saynig, in essence, that identifying a (from your point of view) problem and then simply stopping (and complaining about it) is a very passive and unproductive approach. Yes, geocoin making can be a technical and daunting (and, possibly, expensive) endeavour. But it's not impossible. Chances are, the problem has a solution. Think about it. Brainstorm it. Ask for ideas, suggestions, references, or help. There are enough rabid coinlovers on this Forum that someone will come up with a good solution or otherwise offer to help out.

 

That's my two Yen. ; )

[SCP-173]

My biggest problem with geocoins anymore is the influx of simply ugly, unoriginal and non-caching related coins. The most obvious solution is for people to actually speak their mind, but few do, despite the fact that I know I'm not alone in my shock of what can pass for a geocoin these days.

 

Many people on this forum have very thin skin and the concept of saying something nice or saying nothing at all is embraced to what I think is an unhealthy extent. People with something negative to say about a geocoin are flamed for having an opinion.

 

*Awaits his own flaming for this post*

[Theotokos]

My biggest problem with geocoins anymore is the influx of simply ugly, unoriginal and non-caching related coins. The most obvious solution is for people to actually speak their mind, but few do, despite the fact that I know I'm not alone in my shock of what can pass for a geocoin these days.

 

Many people on this forum have very thin skin and the concept of saying something nice or saying nothing at all is embraced to what I think is an unhealthy extent. People with something negative to say about a geocoin are flamed for having an opinion.

 

*Awaits his own flaming for this post*

 

I've seen a lot of ugly old coins too so not sure it's only the new coins that fit into that category.

 

I agree that people should speak out more (without being malicious) if they have a concern or issue with a certain coin. To comment that it's just plain ugly though doesn't really do anything to create that healthy community. I think it would be more than appropriate to give feedback to help improve designs both positive and negative and I'm sure most people would welcome that.

 

I would be surprised to think that any of the oldtimers (not sure what else to call you all) that I've seen post in these threads would be afraid to post any comments for fear of being flamed.

[SCP-173]

I would be surprised to think that any of the oldtimers (not sure what else to call you all) that I've seen post in these threads would be afraid to post any comments for fear of being flamed.

I don't think anyone is afraid of being flamed, it's the fact that criticism is frowned upon and would make no difference at all anyway. I know that's why I don't usually bother.

[+MustangJoni]

My biggest problem with geocoins anymore is the influx of simply ugly, unoriginal and non-caching related coins. The most obvious solution is for people to actually speak their mind, but few do, despite the fact that I know I'm not alone in my shock of what can pass for a geocoin these days.

 

Many people on this forum have very thin skin and the concept of saying something nice or saying nothing at all is embraced to what I think is an unhealthy extent. People with something negative to say about a geocoin are flamed for having an opinion.

 

*Awaits his own flaming for this post*

 

Something that I see as ugly, might be someone else's favorite coin.

[+Hula Bum]

Reading Vargseld's post made me laugh. There were an awful lot of us (yes, more than just 3!) that spoke out for a very long time and finally realized that there was no point, they just kept coming. You start to realize that it may be the ugliest thing on earth, but as long as it sells they'll keep popping up, so really, why bother?

Coin collecting turned into an obsession for many, it went way past a hobby, and for some became destructive to their lives, and with this came the vultures that were ready and willing to take advantage of that.

I have to wonder though, maybe in time it'll fade out like any other fad and go back more to its roots? If it does, will someone drop me a line. In the meantime I just don't feel like weeding through all the cointests and what not.

[Theotokos]

Reading Vargseld's post made me laugh. There were an awful lot of us (yes, more than just 3!) that spoke out for a very long time and finally realized that there was no point, they just kept coming. You start to realize that it may be the ugliest thing on earth, but as long as it sells they'll keep popping up, so really, why bother?

Coin collecting turned into an obsession for many, it went way past a hobby, and for some became destructive to their lives, and with this came the vultures that were ready and willing to take advantage of that.

I have to wonder though, maybe in time it'll fade out like any other fad and go back more to its roots? If it does, will someone drop me a line. In the meantime I just don't feel like weeding through all the cointests and what not.

 

I keep hearing about all these ugly coins that were/are coming out..can you point me to some so I can get a feel for what's considered ugly? If you think all mine fit in that category feel free to let me know.

 

I don't understand the part about getting back to it's roots as well..does that mean getting back to non-trackable coins or is there more to that? I would really like to see more non-trackable myself if that's the case. I just thought most people wanted trackable and icons, which I could never really figure out if most coins were being just collected anyway.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Theotokos

[avroair]

* Originality: I buy and trade for coins I like. If they are not original and I don't like them, I don't buy them... case in point the rash of compass rose coins... been there, done that. I happen to think the 2007 Coins and Pins compass rose was the pinnacle for that line of coin, it far outstrips anything of newer ilk and hence I don't buy the newer stuff (unless I can resell it for more than I paid for it. )

 

*Caching related: Simple. If you collected coins in 2006 or before, you understand. If you started after, you don't... case closed.

 

*Price: There are coins I think are gouging, what am I going to do about it... not buy them. Speak with my wallet.

 

Solutions for making geocoins better... anyone have a time machine coin? I understand that as a hobby moves along it evolves and I like to think I evolves with it (sometimes better than others). Sooner or later people loose interest in coins and some reappear, but most don't ~ so my solution, have fun with it!

 

PS --- oh yeah, remove all the dumb cointests and begging threads. There are people who have become pros at begging... they know who they are and I think it lame.

 

Edited for grammar.

Edited July 9, 2009 by avroair

[avroair]

Reading Vargseld's post made me laugh. There were an awful lot of us (yes, more than just 3!) that spoke out for a very long time and finally realized that there was no point, they just kept coming.

 

I would point the finger of blame at Groundspeak... they set the rules and you didn't like em. Since in the end the're policies are the ones driving the hobby: such as, you can't promote signature items that are round and small and have a hole in them, you can't sell non-trackable coins in the forums, they allow cointests, if it has a code on it, 'it's a geocoin' ~~~ etc. Some evolve, others don't, the ones who don't are fighting more than a uphill battle, both again people trying to change the hobby and Groundspeak dictating what we can and can't do.

[+Jackalgirl]

*Caching related: Simple. If you collected coins in 2006 or before, you understand. If you started after, you don't... case closed.

 

This seems awfully dismissive, as if people who are not part of this supposedly august group of people may not have a valid opinion about the value of caching-related subjects.

 

I started geocaching in 2007 and appreciate good caching-related coins, as well as good non-caching-related coins. Of course, my own definition of "good" != "caching-related", and I understand other people's personal definitions of "good" may differ. However, that their definition of "good" is different than mine does not make them ignorant, or non-elite, or anything else -- just different.

 

I myself also appreciate interesting designs (and again, "interesting" ! necessarily = "caching-related"). If the coin is caching-related but is executed poorly, I'm not interested. If it's clever and well-done, I am. If it pushes the envelope and does so well, I'm definitely interested.

 

I agree with you -- voting with the wallet is key. Constructive criticism (at least, for my own designs) is always welcome ("that coin sucks" is not constructive), tho that may not be the case for other designers.

 

Interesting point about Groundspeak, too. I think that if you were allowed to sell non-trackable coins via this Forum, you'd see a lot more non-trackable coins. Y'all are welcome to come over to MiGO Japan (see my sig) and into our Forums, by the way, and post non-trackable personal geocoin sales. (Even if you're not in Japan.) If there are enough of you, I'll give you your own Forum. : )

 

<moderator edit to remove the link to a non-trackable sales forum, are you doing that just to prove a point? >

Edited July 9, 2009 by Eartha

[haysonics]

*Caching related: Simple. If you collected coins in 2006 or before, you understand. If you started after, you don't... case closed.

 

Indeed, I find the whole "caching related" argument amusing. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the first geocoin a personal/signature item? It had nothing to do with geocaching! It was about the guy's interest in mountain biking. Also he chose as his sig item a coin which is a concept that predates caching by thousands of years. I understand where the geo in geocoins comes from, I really do, but how original can you continue to be if you are limited by that? If every coin was a picture of nature I wouldn't have started collecting the things. I live in Sydney and every time I see a picture of someone in the bush, peeking into a log, I am waiting for a poisonous snake or spider to spring out and kill How about a "When nature attacks" geocoin? Not that I am against nature or anything. I gasp whenever I see a picture of a Four Wheel Drive geocoin. Does no one get the irony of this? And your dogs! Hmmmm Whats next? The "Agent Orange" geocoin? And last but not least, the modern geocoin itself; manufactured overseas, a product of industrialization, of globalization, how is that caching related?

 

Write your name and a tracking number on a stick and I might understand "caching related".

 

I await the flames. I can already smell my nose hairs burning.

Edited July 9, 2009 by haysonics

[+DresselDragons]

I keep hearing about all these ugly coins that were/are coming out..can you point me to some so I can get a feel for what's considered ugly? If you think all mine fit in that category feel free to let me know.

 

I don't understand the part about getting back to it's roots as well..does that mean getting back to non-trackable coins or is there more to that? I would really like to see more non-trackable myself if that's the case. I just thought most people wanted trackable and icons, which I could never really figure out if most coins were being just collected anyway.

I see absolutely not point in this...what someone considers "ugly" is so subjective.

 

Trackable/non-trackable, I don't think that matters about getting back to our 'roots". For me, it is the underlying reason BEHIND the coin. Personal coins (even "ugly" ones) with special meaning behind them are way more important to me than the commercial ones. Coins that were made for trades only, or can only be acquired by finding it in a cache, or earned by completing a challenge, or an event coin for an event that I attended...those are special coins. Commercial coins have their place, goodness knows I've bought my share. But I have REALLY slowed down on my buying, even before the economy went south. It seems, over the past few years that the driving factor for producing a coin changed to how much $$ it could generate. When I think of getting back to our "roots", I think of folks minting the personal/ event/challenge coins for the sheer enjoyment of the hobby, not their profitability. I am not saying that folks should not make a profit on geocoins, but that should not be the only reason for minting a coin.

 

edit for typos

Edited July 9, 2009 by DresselDragons

[+Jackalgirl]

I keep hearing about all these ugly coins that were/are coming out..can you point me to some so I can get a feel for what's considered ugly? If you think all mine fit in that category feel free to let me know.

 

I don't understand the part about getting back to it's roots as well..does that mean getting back to non-trackable coins or is there more to that? I would really like to see more non-trackable myself if that's the case. I just thought most people wanted trackable and icons, which I could never really figure out if most coins were being just collected anyway.

I see absolutely not point in this...what someone considers "ugly" is so subjective.

 

Trackable/non-trackable, I don't think that matters about getting back to our 'roots". For me, it is the underlying reason BEHIND the coin. Personal coins (even "ugly" ones) with special meaning behind them are way more important to me than the commercial ones. Coins that were made for trades only, or can only be acquired by finding it in a cache, or earned by completing a challenge, or an event coin for an event that I attended...those are special coins. Commercial coins have their place, goodness knows I've bought my share. But I have REALLY slowed down on my buying, even before the economy went south. It seems, over the past few years that the driving factor for producing a coin changed to how much $$ it could generate. When I think of getting back to our "roots", I think of folks minting the personal/ event/challenge coins for the sheer enjoyment of the hobby, not their profitability. I am not saying that folks should not make a profit on geocoins, but that should not be the only reason for minting a coin.

 

edit for typos

 

I don't know that there's any reasonable way to control this, other than by voting with your wallet. What you're doing is talking about the intent of the coiner, which can be hard to determine (tho, again, if it's obvious, don't buy it -- which is exactly what it sounds like you're doing). Groundspeak could not, I think, be expected to decide whether a coin were being minted for pure profitability.

 

And part of the problem is that coins are expensive to make. A coiner should be expected to at least make back the cost. If they can't do that, then they're just spending money, and there are far cheaper (and non-sanctioned) sig items that can be made or bought.

 

How practical would it be, do you think, to set up a grant system to help those who want to make personal coins -- either trackable or non-? I'm talking about a non-profit organization that helps these personal tokens get made, either by outright donating the cost (and perhaps facilitating the minting) or by holding back a small number of coins to be sold with the intent of recouping some or all of the cost?

 

There would have to be some kind of contract (something that says "you will not sell these coins, and if we find out you're doing it, you'll be liable for the at-cost cost of all of the coins you have received") and the grant authority would have to be willing to pursue it (legally) if broken. And there might be standard processes like each batch of coins would be produced in two platings -- the version that is sold (if the org does this to recoup costs) and the version that is the grantee's own (to be distributed as gifts, as prizes in cointests that require no entry fee, to be traded, or to be left in caches only).

 

What do you think -- is this something that would work? I'm sure it would -- but it would take a few very motivated persons to make it work (plus at least one, preferably two, persons with a legal background and, in a perfect world, a lawyer who's willing to support the project pro bono when necessary).

[+DresselDragons]

I don't know that there's any reasonable way to control this, other than by voting with your wallet. What you're doing is talking about the intent of the coiner, which can be hard to determine (tho, again, if it's obvious, don't buy it -- which is exactly what it sounds like you're doing). That is what I am doing, or at least trying. LOL I can only control what I do. Groundspeak could not, I think, be expected to decide whether a coin were being minted for pure profitability. Never said they should...I was just talking about the "old days" since the question was raised. As long as there is a market for them, there will be commercial coins. I am not saying they are a bad thing...just explaining why I slowed down in my buying and how it "used to be" when we started collecting.

 

And part of the problem is that coins are expensive to make. A coiner should be expected to at least make back the cost. If they can't do that, then they're just spending money, and there are far cheaper (and non-sanctioned) sig items that can be made or bought. But, back in the day, that is EXACTLY what geocoins were...sig items. Yes, they were expensive sig items, but, like so many things in life, if you cannot afford it (in this case, mint it), than don't.

 

How practical would it be, do you think, to set up a grant system to help those who want to make personal coins -- either trackable or non-? I'm talking about a non-profit organization that helps these personal tokens get made, either by outright donating the cost (and perhaps facilitating the minting) or by holding back a small number of coins to be sold with the intent of recouping some or all of the cost? Isn't that very similar to the coin sale programs that some coin vendors have already established? Our first coin was minted and sold by C&P...x number were sold and we received x number. Maybe the vendors are not offering this service anymore...I dunno.

 

There would have to be some kind of contract (something that says "you will not sell these coins, and if we find out you're doing it, you'll be liable for the at-cost cost of all of the coins you have received") and the grant authority would have to be willing to pursue it (legally) if broken. And there might be standard processes like each batch of coins would be produced in two platings -- the version that is sold (if the org does this to recoup costs) and the version that is the grantee's own (to be distributed as gifts, as prizes in cointests that require no entry fee, to be traded, or to be left in caches only).

 

What do you think -- is this something that would work? I'm sure it would -- but it would take a few very motivated persons to make it work (plus at least one, preferably two, persons with a legal background and, in a perfect world, a lawyer who's willing to support the project pro bono when necessary).

See my comments above.

[+Jackalgirl]

I don't know that there's any reasonable way to control this, other than by voting with your wallet. What you're doing is talking about the intent of the coiner, which can be hard to determine (tho, again, if it's obvious, don't buy it -- which is exactly what it sounds like you're doing). That is what I am doing, or at least trying. LOL I can only control what I do. Groundspeak could not, I think, be expected to decide whether a coin were being minted for pure profitability. Never said they should...I was just talking about the "old days" since the question was raised. As long as there is a market for them, there will be commercial coins. I am not saying they are a bad thing...just explaining why I slowed down in my buying and how it "used to be" when we started collecting.

 

And part of the problem is that coins are expensive to make. A coiner should be expected to at least make back the cost. If they can't do that, then they're just spending money, and there are far cheaper (and non-sanctioned) sig items that can be made or bought. But, back in the day, that is EXACTLY what geocoins were...sig items. Yes, they were expensive sig items, but, like so many things in life, if you cannot afford it (in this case, mint it), than don't.

 

How practical would it be, do you think, to set up a grant system to help those who want to make personal coins -- either trackable or non-? I'm talking about a non-profit organization that helps these personal tokens get made, either by outright donating the cost (and perhaps facilitating the minting) or by holding back a small number of coins to be sold with the intent of recouping some or all of the cost? Isn't that very similar to the coin sale programs that some coin vendors have already established? Our first coin was minted and sold by C&P...x number were sold and we received x number. Maybe the vendors are not offering this service anymore...I dunno.

 

There would have to be some kind of contract (something that says "you will not sell these coins, and if we find out you're doing it, you'll be liable for the at-cost cost of all of the coins you have received") and the grant authority would have to be willing to pursue it (legally) if broken. And there might be standard processes like each batch of coins would be produced in two platings -- the version that is sold (if the org does this to recoup costs) and the version that is the grantee's own (to be distributed as gifts, as prizes in cointests that require no entry fee, to be traded, or to be left in caches only).

 

What do you think -- is this something that would work? I'm sure it would -- but it would take a few very motivated persons to make it work (plus at least one, preferably two, persons with a legal background and, in a perfect world, a lawyer who's willing to support the project pro bono when necessary).

See my comments above.

 

Understood, all. WRT the vendors - as far as I know (and I am a relative newbie, so I may be wrong), most vendors are only interested in designs in which they think will be commercially viable; they're paying the person in coins, but are selling the rest of the coins to recoup the cost (and make a profit). I'm sure that if someone came up with a really interesting coin that the vendors think the folks here would go insane over, they'd be snapped up. So they either have to come up with interesting coins or they're stuck.

 

And some vendors actually do offer a common back with a customizable front, which is a good way for people to lower the costs of personal coins.

 

I guess that this is an incentive to design something interesting, of sorts; the coin has to be interesting enough to the geocoin body at large to be viable, so I suppose that you are right and there is a system already in place. I'm not sure how interested the vendors are in producing non-trackable coins under such a program (or if they already do) -- could some of the vendors chime in?

[Theotokos]

I see absolutely not point in this...what someone considers "ugly" is so subjective.

I agree totally with you...but I continue to hear from the 'originals' that we have been inundated with ugly coins..a common theme from many pre 2006-7(?) folks. I hate generalizations like that so I'm looking for someone to ppinpoint for me exactly what all they consider as ugly. Like I said before..I think there were a lot of ugly old coins too so I just don't buy the argument.

 

Trackable/non-trackable, I don't think that matters about getting back to our 'roots". For me, it is the underlying reason BEHIND the coin. Personal coins (even "ugly" ones) with special meaning behind them are way more important to me than the commercial ones. Coins that were made for trades only, or can only be acquired by finding it in a cache, or earned by completing a challenge, or an event coin for an event that I attended...those are special coins. Commercial coins have their place, goodness knows I've bought my share. But I have REALLY slowed down on my buying, even before the economy went south. It seems, over the past few years that the driving factor for producing a coin changed to how much $$ it could generate. When I think of getting back to our "roots", I think of folks minting the personal/ event/challenge coins for the sheer enjoyment of the hobby, not their profitability. I am not saying that folks should not make a profit on geocoins, but that should not be the only reason for minting a coin.

 

When I first started into geocoins I wanted to make my first coin a personal. I was told by vendors and collectors that most personals don't do well. So I waited and took a chance with my 4th coin to do it and I was scared to death because it's a lot of money to invest as a give away item. So again, the market dictated what I made...and if anyone thinks I'm making a profit at this you're sadly mistaken. If I wanted to make money at something this is not the sideline I would choose believe me. I think we've kept our coin costs down for the most part..the Dragons were very reasonable...considering other people were selling them on eBay for $75+. Maybe it's not the newbies that are ruining things but the eBay's of this world?

 

Not to be rude here but my sense is that it's not really about the coins themselves but that most oldtimers remember a new, fun place to hang out where they made a lot of friends and now they just want us newbies to all leave so they can have their playground back. Things always change and will never be the same and I think coins today (for the most part) are amazing at pushing the envelope. I would think people should be happy that their hobby is growing and that there is a lots to chose from.

[YemonYime]

Understood, all. WRT the vendors - as far as I know (and I am a relative newbie, so I may be wrong), most vendors are only interested in designs in which they think will be commercially viable; they're paying the person in coins, but are selling the rest of the coins to recoup the cost (and make a profit). I'm sure that if someone came up with a really interesting coin that the vendors think the folks here would go insane over, they'd be snapped up. So they either have to come up with interesting coins or they're stuck.

 

This begins to touch on what I believe was the start of the "problem" we're discussing. Maybe if we can accurately identify the problem, we can move towards addressing a "solution".

 

"Back in the day" (or whatever you want to call it) if you wanted to start your geocoin collection, you either had to find coins in caches, or pony up and create your own personal to trade with others. Not only was this a great way to start your collection, but it was a fantastic way to introduce yourself to the geocaching/geocoin community. You were able to tell everyone a little something interesting about yourself...all in the space of a couple of inches of metal. This was basically the next step in the evolution of the already popular geocaching signature "sig" items such as wooden nickels.

 

Granted, not everyone was able to create a personal coin because the prices were too high for most. But as the hobby grew and vendors started popping up to create competition, we saw the beginning of the "fulfillment programs" that would allow anyone to create a geocoin and get a certain number of geocoins for free.

 

This was really a foolproof idea that would allow anyone to create their very own personal coins and get their collections started. But it was both a blessing and a curse, and exactly where the "problem" began.

 

The blessing was that Joe Schmo could now start his collection and join in the trading. The curse was that Joe saw how easy it was to get more coins and more money, so he did it again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

 

And now Joe has drifted away from creating his personal geocoin for fun and trading...and turned it into a money maker that floods the market with more and more product. The more vendors, the more such coins were being made. To be fair to the vendors, they became damned if they did, and damned if they didn't. The competition was such that if a vendor refused to do a fulfillment for a client, they were broadcast in the forums as difficult or unreasonable to work with.

 

Ahhhh, the high cost of pleasing the public, and the sweet allure of greed. It's been through the forums like a tsunami, and we've all been up to our pockets in the flood.

 

It's one thing to see someone introduce a new coin, but when that someone pumps out idea after idea, coin after coin, every two weeks...it becomes obvious that this is no longer about creating something to "share" with the community.

 

Don't be that guy.

 

Consider introducing your first geocoin as a personal geocoin, and let's get back to the basics of trading between ourselves and re-establishing the one-on-one relationships that made this community work in the first place.

 

Yime

[+Fiery Searcher]

Consider introducing your first geocoin as a personal geocoin, and let's get back to the basics of trading between ourselves and re-establishing the one-on-one relationships that made this community work in the first place.

 

Thank you for the best ACTION suggestion I've read in this thread thus far. And the supporting scenario provided me - a relative noob - with a pretty good context for how we got to where we are.

[+JoenGPS]

 

Consider introducing your first geocoin as a personal geocoin, and let's get back to the basics of trading between ourselves and re-establishing the one-on-one relationships that made this community work in the first place.

 

Yime

 

.... exactly!

[avroair]

*Caching related: Simple. If you collected coins in 2006 or before, you understand. If you started after, you don't... case closed.

 

This seems awfully dismissive, as if people who are not part of this supposedly august group of people may not have a valid opinion about the value of caching-related subjects.

 

 

I myself also appreciate interesting designs (and again, "interesting" ! necessarily = "caching-related"). If the coin is caching-related but is executed poorly, I'm not interested. If it's clever and well-done, I am. If it pushes the envelope and does so well, I'm definitely interested.

 

This topic has been around for years. And has been hashed many times, there was no elitist intention, merely, if you are an old-timer, your experience with coins is different than someone newer.

 

It's too hard to explain to someone who hasn't witnessed the change. Anyone newer appears to be more open since they embrace all kinds of coins. Much of the desire for old-time collectors was that they related to geocaching and more specifically to geocachers, geocaching groups or country organizations. So, both old and newer collectors collect based on emotion, but the values one sees in the coins are different. 99% of coins collected were traded where a bond was made. Now, 99% of coins are sold (even to finance a special edition that is trade-only). Not saying one is better than the other, just trying to point out the differences... Personally, I enjoy trading, but I am in the very small minority here on these forums.

 

One of the main differences I have seen is cash incentive. People used to mint their personal and trade, gift, leave in caches etc. It wasn't seen as money-making or a business. That has slowly changed (notice I didn't say eroded). To become a commercial venture where coins are mostly sold. Or sold, with an XLE left open for trading.

 

I will add, there is nothing wrong with what has happened to coins, the hobby has evolved and certainly still a great place for new collectors, ideas and creativity. It's just different.

 

I started geocaching in 2007 and appreciate good caching-related coins, as well as good non-caching-related coins.

 

Your statement here, says it all, some old-timers wouldn't even consider non-caching related coins. Whereas you do. It may sound elitist but their definition of a geocoin has to include a personal relation to caching whether that's taking your child, dog, praying on the trails etc...

 

 

 

A shift occurred where coins became trackable and anything that had a tracking number on it became.

[avroair]

For me, it is the underlying reason BEHIND the coin. Personal coins (even "ugly" ones) with special meaning behind them are way more important to me than the commercial ones.

 

Amen

 

Coins that were made for trades only, or can only be acquired by finding it in a cache, or earned by completing a challenge, or an event coin for an event that I attended

 

That used to be the status quo, now it's the exception.

 

Moun10bike: It had nothing to do with geocaching!

 

Sure it did. He wanted to put his signature item into caches he really liked, what is caching related is obviously very subjective. But the act of leaving a coin in a cache as a tribute to a cache sounds caching related to me.

 

If every coin was a picture of nature I wouldn't have started collecting the things.

 

My point exactly, you would not have started collecting coins back in 2005 cause they wouldn't interest you. People are into coins for different reasons and for those 'old-timers' the reasons have changed. I don't believe one is better than the other, both are fine. I just believe that if you didn't collect geocoins back in 2005 you wouldn't understand the reasons.

[+Jackalgirl]

I respect your (avroair's and YemonYime's) opinions deeply, because I have a lot of respect for you both. And I understand where you are coming from.

 

On the other hand, I am an introvert. I enjoy and cherish the relationships I make with people online, but I don't handle face-to-face as well (or enjoy it nearly as much). It is actual very hard work for me to do stuff like actively seek to go out and meet people.

 

Plus, I personally really enjoy a lot of the commercial coins. Trades make my stomach hurt, as much as I enjoy them, because I'm always wondering if the other person is taking advantage of my relative ignorance, or if I'm somehow inadvertently doing the same. I still am willing to do 'em, they just scare me. With commercial buying, I know exactly what I'm getting and what I'm paying for. Don't get me wrong -- I've really enjoyed every trade I've done -- but the commercial drive has the added appeal of being (mostly, recent vendor drama excepted) fairly safe and it also gives, I think, a much broader opportunity for creative designs, which is a really big plus in my book.

 

I'd like to see commercial coins continue.

 

However, I'd also love to see an amalgam of what you're talking about: I haven't asked the vendors yet, but is there a semi-pay fulfillment option? For example, I go to Vendor X and say "this is the highly personal coin I'd like to make." Vendor X says, hopefully, "that is a really spiffy design and we'd love to make it for you. If you get umpty coins made (for us to sell as the RE), we will give you dumpty coins of a special plating. You can buy up to humpty more of these special plating coins at cost." (Where "at cost" hopefully = "mint price + shipping")

 

I suggest this because the fulfillment options generally end up with you not getting very many coins, especially if your design is not, say, the next Medusa or YemonYime; you might get, say, 20, which most cachers could blow through in a weekend. It's not to say that you should expect 500, but I don't know about you: if I only have 20 coins, I'm keeping them for very special trades or otherwise clutching the geocoin treasure box muttering "my precious...my precious..." If there were a way to get extras at cost, I think that there would be a bigger incentive to have personals made (because it would be less expensive). Though I understand that vendors might be understandably leery about giving out the actual mint cost as it might reveal just how much profit they're making.

 

(Not that profit is bad. Running businesses is expensive. Running businesses to fund an addiction to geocoins extra 'specially so.)

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Jackalgirl

[avroair]

Plus, I personally really enjoy a lot of the commercial coins. Trades make my stomach hurt, as much as I enjoy them, because I'm always wondering if the other person is taking advantage of my relative ignorance

 

I'd like to see commercial coins continue.

 

However, I'd also love to see an amalgam of what you're talking about: I haven't asked the vendors yet, but is there a semi-pay fulfillment option.

 

The fulfillment is exactly what Yime was talking about. Make 250 coins. The vendor will sell 200 and you get 50 to do as you please with... I don't mind commercial coins, heck I have made a bunch, but there will be a special place for the coins I traded that were not sold.

 

If you feel someone is taking advantage of you then you are looking at it as a commercial venture (nothing wrong with this, just a different POV from someone who wants to mint their own coin, and trade them and put them into caches). Case in point, my first coin, I put into cache or gave a few people. It was really popular so I reminted it and sold some at cost. When I traded it for other people's personals I never really considered whether I was being ripped off, if I liked the coin, I would trade for it... all coins were relatively even on the playing field. Geocoins then became a business of buying and selling. I have no problem with this, it's just it moved away from the 1 on 1 trading... all in the name of selling more tracking numbers.

[YemonYime]

Just some quick clarifications.

 

Regarding fulfillment programs, they themselves are not the problem. Abusing their convenience is. For some individuals, it wasn't about creating one new design to "share" with the community as was advertised. It was about creating coin after coin to generate income.

 

There were times when we would see three or four new coin threads here from the same source. Pumping out "product" at that rate of speed was an extreme push here, and it screamed of greed. Yet many enthusiastic newbie collectors that didn't know any better, ate them up because that's what they thought was the norm here. That's how they were introduced to the hobby of collecting geocoins, instead of the slower-paced relationship building process that it all started with.

 

And so again to clarify...it was never a problem to see "commercial" coins being offered, but taking it to that selfish extreme changed how geocoins were collected, and thus ruined a good thing. Just think about it...although there are new and interesting geocoins being introduced, not every coin is "awesome".

[+DJ.J.ROCK]

I was not here back in the day, but Geocoins for me are alot of things,, just to give you all "mabie" a different outlook towards this subject.

 

geocoins for me are an investment, an art form, part of the game we all enjoy so much, a greeting card, a biz card,a way to express ones self. a learning tool for design. I enjoy the design of a geocoin and also the coins intent. I learn alot about a person from the coins they design. take t sun for example ...she has a unique style thats very earthly. yime has a very clean way of his designs. and i could go on and on.

so for me a coin is not really about the coin,, its about alot of things. a message of ones self. i collect designs i like and ones i dont, i dont worry about.

[+Renegade Knight]

....* Originality: Often heard coins aren't original. ...This should be FUN

There is a joecacher coin coming out. When I pointed out that Joe Cacher had a different theme going it was ignored.

 

So I think folks who make coins should probalby avoid naming their coin after other cachers without some kind of permission.

[+Renegade Knight]

...*Caching related: ...

 

Signature coins are caching related.

Everthing else falls short of that gold standard.

 

So here is my simple scale.

 

Gold: Signature coins made by cachers as a signature item.

Silver: Coins made for the love of caching and geocoins by geocachers.

Bronze: Trackable on some caching site somewhere. Commercial tripe and no I don't care how pretty it is, and I may even own and like one of these, it's still Bronze in the caching world in my view because it falls short on what a geocoin. Even if it strikes my personal fancy.

Fail: Not trackable, not made by cachers, and the only discernable relation to geocaching is that the person making it is says so.

[+BlueDeuce]

....* Originality: Often heard coins aren't original. ...This should be FUN

There is a joecacher coin coming out. When I pointed out that Joe Cacher had a different theme going it was ignored.

 

So I think folks who make coins should probalby avoid naming their coin after other cachers without some kind of permission.

 

Well Joe Cacher (or Joe whatever) is more than a user name it's a term. The coin isn't about the cacher Joe cacher. If I'm going to make a coin about Elvis Presley I'm not going to ask every Elvis cacher for permission to make a coin about somebody else. Now if Elvis Presley did have an account here (and he just might) then I would ask permission since the coin is about him.

 

There's some Nascar driver with the nickname Blue Deuce or maybe it's the car. If someone wanted to make a coin about him you wouldn't need my permission.

Edited July 10, 2009 by BlueDeuce