Hostage/Disapearing Trackables

July 6, 2009

Has anyone had a travel bug just stop moving. I had one, but then I guy picked it up, logged it, and hasn't even been on the geocaching website ever since.

July 6, 2009

I'm pretty sure that's happened to almost everyone. "Fair weather cachers" seems to be the phrase.

22k · July 6, 2009

Yeah, it's rarely done because of malice. I've lost a TB to a three day cacher.

Have you sent the guy a nice email asking what's up?

Also it looks like your Poopin' Bison TB was lost when the Hotel cache went missing. You might want to consider re-releasing it.

Edited July 7, 2009 by BlueDeuce

July 7, 2009

I have one that seems to be missing after 2 cachers "discoverd" it. I will be on vacation in the area of the cache it was last placed so at least I can confirm its whereabouts or lack there of.

July 7, 2009

Honeslty I've been somewhat guilty of a similar offense. I had gotten back into caching in 2007 (Fall) and we found our first TB (Fiver the Jackalope). My wife loved Fiver.

Unfortunately life came along and we were very busy for quite some time. The owner e-mailed us asking about Fiver and I let him know that I was sorry that I hadn't gotten him back out. I had honestly forgotten I had him.

As soon as the weather and my schedule cleared up I got him moving again (spring 2009). Fiver had a nice place to stay while on hiatus however he wasn't moving as he was supposed to be. I felt (and still feel) guilty for the oversight and will never let it happen again. There's a cache near by that is a perfect drop spot for trackables and if I can't get a TB or Geocoin into a good cache I'll take it and drop it there. I'll move it later if I someone else doesn't pick it up in the mean time.

Shoot the last finder a note via e-mail and see if they still have it. Offer to send them a shipping label to ship it back to you if they can't get it back into the wild.

Best of luck.

July 7, 2009

I realize that a lot of trackables go missing through honest mistakes...but there are also geothieves out there. And there's a market for them...generaly coins. But I'm thinking there should be a way to wake up cachers who've honestly logged trackables and have simply forgotten to move them, have gotten out of caching while still in possession, just lost interest, etc. I've tried e-mailing a cacher that has one of my coins several times for over a year with no results...not even a response. What if we started a thread here someplace for all of us in this predicament. We could list the cachers that are remiss in their duties and send out mass e-mails to them...daily. You help me out and I'll help you out...I'd bet we start seeing results. What are your thoughts on this?

22k · July 7, 2009

We could list the cachers that are remiss in their duties and send out mass e-mails to them...daily. You help me out and I'll help you out...I'd bet we start seeing results. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm pretty darn sure you wouldn't be allowed to call out cachers in that manner and mass emailing would be considered harassment and abuse of the system. (There's a posted warning when you send an email)

Don't get yourself banned for a Traveler. We all know there's a risk in putting them out into the wild.

July 7, 2009

I think Bartrod is on to something, at least in the need for cachers to help out other cachers with a bit of communication, although a bit different than their post.

I am guilty of misplacing one and then contacting the owner with an "email of shame." I am also of guilty of holding on to a TB for a year (more shame!) because I just KNEW I could contribute perfectly to its mission, but life got in the way and I though I did send it on its journeys, I ultimately failed to help with the mission. Lesson learned here: I am not the only cacher who can help travellers, so give other cachers a chance.

BUT, one thing I have started doing is to take notice of two things:

1) travellers listed but not present in the cache, and

2) travellers listed in the cache for a good long while and are STILL there.

In both cases, I send notes to the owners letting them know the status. A cacher did this with one of my bugs and I was so greatful just to KNOW. This has been brought up before, so I'm not claiming this as a new idea. However, if this sort of courtesy would catch on then I think we might have less "unknowns" out there. The travellers may/will still go missing, but a different level of vigilance and communication may help the situation.

Just my two cents...

22k · July 7, 2009

Offering assistance is always a good idea. When it comes down to it I'll even offer to send them a pre-stamped package that they can just stick it in and drop it in the mail.

Heed Snoogan's advice - #5

Also, if you do come across caches that should have bugs but don't, try to mention it in your cache log. It helps the cache and bug owner know if they should move it out.

July 7, 2009

I'll add that mass e-mailing users would be a bad idea and likely give GC.com a bad name. I don't think any of use would want that. There are enough struggles with land managers and keeping the game on the level and making a positive impact out there without that.

I know that a simple note from the TB owner in my case made a significant impact for me. I'll never let a trackable go stale in my bag. If I ever decided to put the swag bag in the closet, I'll get all the trackables back in the wild first.

21.9k · July 7, 2009

I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the Travel Bug forum.

1.3k · July 7, 2009

Offering assistance is always a good idea. When it comes down to it I'll even offer to send them a pre-stamped package that they can just stick it in and drop it in the mail.

Heed Snoogan's advice - #5

Also, if you do come across caches that should have bugs but don't, try to mention it in your cache log. It helps the cache and bug owner know if they should move it out.

Along with mentioning it in your log for the cache, you can go to the trackables page and Write a Note saying the bug/coin was not in the cache it is listed in. This way the bug owner also gets a status update. I think alot of cache owners are apprehensive about moving a traveler to the Unknown location and they'd rather have the bug owner do that.

Bruce

8.8k · July 7, 2009

Bartrod is not onto something. Mass emailing someone can get your account banned from geocaching.com, it would be considered harassment. You'll get a lot farther with a polite email than you will with that method. Angering someone is a sure way to get your TB tossed into the campfire. Why would they care about a mean person?

The latest feel good story I read in one of the pinned threads was a TB that just came back after 8 years missing. You can't lose hope. But you will if you harass someone, anger them, send nasty emails, or pester them.

14k · July 7, 2009

I realize that a lot of trackables go missing through honest mistakes...

Raises hand.

I brought a handful of trackable items with me last August to Maine and dropped them into the first cache I found (a large container in a very scenic location) then logged all the items in my inventory. Problem was one of the items in my inventory was a coin that I didn't actually drop into the cache. I had no idea where it might be and apologized profusely to the CO. Then a few weeks ago I was checking the pockets in a coat that I wear infrequently and found the coin. Last week I was in Maine again for a week long vacation and dropped the coin in another cache very close to the one I had indicated I had dropped it in previously. I also dropped a "Get out of TB jail Free" TB that I picked up a few weeks ago. Hopefully they'll travel together for awhile.

July 8, 2009

Bartrod is not onto something. Mass emailing someone can get your account banned from geocaching.com, it would be considered harassment. You'll get a lot farther with a polite email than you will with that method.

The rest of my post talked about leaving notes on the website on both the cache page AND the trackable's page, which Blue Deuce also suggested a post or two later in the thread. I was trying to advocate for polite communication via the website, and not through nasty emails. Anyone who has lost a TB/coin can feel Bartrod's frustration, but a knee-jerk reaction resulting in a nasty email is not the solution - and I believe we all agree here. He talked about what geocachers can "do" about it, and my response was only in agreement with the "let's find a solution" part, but with a more "happy" solution than his.

Just feeling the need to clarify my earlier post!

July 9, 2009

My solution was never meant to send "nasty" e-mails. It's just meant as a way to get their attention. I've tried sending a number of "nice" e-mails to remedy the situation...even offered to pay for having it mailed back. But I get NO RESPONSE. How many of you have tried the same thing and gotten the same results??? I don't know that it would be considered "threatening" if done in the proper manner...it may or may not be harrassment, but only the powers that be could answer the question whether it is or not. I'm just posing a solution that I don't think is unreasonable to a genuine problem.

8.8k · July 9, 2009

My solution was never meant to send "nasty" e-mails. It's just meant as a way to get their attention. I've tried sending a number of "nice" e-mails to remedy the situation...even offered to pay for having it mailed back. But I get NO RESPONSE. How many of you have tried the same thing and gotten the same results??? I don't know that it would be considered "threatening" if done in the proper manner...it may or may not be harrassment, but only the powers that be could answer the question whether it is or not. I'm just posing a solution that I don't think is unreasonable to a genuine problem.

Asking people to mass email someone, even if they are nice emails is still abuse, and won't be tolerated. I volunteer here for the powers that be (see "moderator" under my avatar), so I'm answering your question. It is not allowed.

If you are still unsure, please read the Terms Of Use for this website. There will be no mass email campaign.

If you read through the many threads here on this same subject, you will find the hundreds of reasons why trackables get stopped in their tracks. You'll also find some happy stories about them reappearing weeks (which is not really missing), months (which is still not bad in the life of a travel bug) and even years later (OK, that's a long time). Anyone who expects their Travel Bug to move every few days has their expectations set way too high.

Notes to cache pages and TB pages are allowed, if done politely, but the people who should be leaving the notes and emailing once in a while, are the owners of the missing TBs, and maybe the person who dropped off the TB. We do not turn cache pages and TB pages into forum threads. Any cache owner who has this happen can delete those notes.

July 9, 2009

If I was to receive countless emails over & over & over (regarding anything in general). That would not persuade me to reply back... it would do just the opposite. Call me stubborn. :unsure:

July 9, 2009

We have made a sizeable investment in trackable Geocoins and are slowly getting them out and placed in caches. It is extremely disconcerting to have cachers pick up a coin, log it and then "keep it". We are convinced that there are cachers who are coin collectors and have no intention of moving these coins along. We have gone to the extent of placing our coins in heavy duty zip lock bags with a laminated card describing the coin and its goals along with instructions for logging it and moving it along and a statement not to take it if you don't intend to move it along. We have sent emails to those that have logged our coins and not moved them along, and have NEVER gotten a single response. Coin theifs! We are now going to identify them on the cache page so that other cachers will know who took the trackables. To add insult to injury, one cacher two weeks ago took all three trackables from one of our caches (new cacher) and to date had not moved a single one.

22k · July 9, 2009

Never release anything you are not willing to lose.

If you feel the need to put the label of 'thief' on everyone who failed to move your coins along maybe releasing coins into the wild isn't for you.

July 9, 2009

To add insult to injury, one cacher two weeks ago took all three trackables from one of our caches (new cacher) and to date had not moved a single one.

I would not call two weeks either an injury or an insult. Not even two months.

July 9, 2009

Asking people to mass email someone, even if they are nice emails is still abuse, and won't be tolerated. I volunteer here for the powers that be (see "moderator" under my avatar), so I'm answering your question. It is not allowed.
If you are still unsure, please read the Terms Of Use for this website. There will be no mass email campaign.

Point taken...I'm dropping the idea and the discussion. But I still think it's an issue that Groundspeak will need to address at some point and in some way. Too many cachers are involved on both the losing and taking end. I hate the whole idea of sending out trackables to be dropped because it is a novel and intriguing concept.

Edited July 9, 2009 by bartrod

July 9, 2009

I'm pretty sure that's happened to almost everyone. "Fair weather cachers" seems to be the phrase.

Is there anything that can be done about these "fair weather" or "phantom" cachers? Not sure how much information Groundspeak can garner from new accounts, but is there some way to determine which computer is being used? (Full disclousure: I am not a computer scientist.) These accounts that are created, obtain a few trackables, and then go silent forever...if enough of them come from the same place, couldn't something be done?

This is not a whine, but just an effort to offer a solution to a common problem.

22k · July 9, 2009

Sometimes people ask about banning people who don't move bugs but really that doesn't do anything to get your bug back in circulation. After you send an email, gc.com can't do much else to get that person to respond.

The best thing to do is give your traveler every chance it can to stay active. In my opinion coins do not meet the number 1 rule of travelers. They are just too cool.

Read this: Snoogans' Tb Longevity Clinic

Edited July 9, 2009 by BlueDeuce

July 10, 2009

It's not banning people who don't move bugs - I have been guilty of that myself!

I'm talking about the "phantom cacher". The account is created, activity for maybe a week, and then they are NEVER heard from again despite the fact that they have bugs and coins in their possession.

Are our accounts with gc.com good "forever," or are there guidelines about length of time an account is dormant before it is omitted from the system. If an account is retired, any bugs held by that owner go to "unknown location" or whatever the question mark icon stands for.

Usually these phantom cachers are repeat offenders - creating and abandoning accounts will nilly, and sometimes taking bugs along with them. Is there some "signature" that the same computer leaves with gc.com when an account is made that can be used to monitor this kind of activity? Is it realistic to see 10+ accounts being created by the same computer?

Please let me know if I am not making myself clear here...

22k · July 10, 2009

A real thief would simply take the coins and never log them out at all.

July 10, 2009

A real thief would simply take the coins and never log them out at all.

Very true - no argument here. There's no way to avoid these folks, at least not that I can tell.

But what about the less savvy fair-weather cacher? They bother to create and account, take bugs, stop using account, and repeat. In the process, they amass quite a collection of bugs. If they use the same computer to create these dummy accounts, can't gc.com track that? Can anyone answer this question?

Also, are memberships with gc.com good forever or what? Is there a "purge" of some sort for those accounts that have not been active or visited after a year? Two years? Five years?

22k · July 10, 2009

gc.com does not delete accounts at this time. At the most they would set an inactive account to unvalidated.

I have never heard of anyone systematically opening multiple accounts just to be able to acquire bugs and I would highly doubt anyone would. There's no reason to open an account, log out bugs, abandon the account, open another account, log out some more bugs. Why would anyone go through all that effort if all they wanted to do was keep bugs and coins? There's no extra reward from logging them out of a cache.

I don't know how far gc.com would go to monitor for multiple account from the same IP address.

2.5k · July 10, 2009

I have been told by a higher that they will remove a account if it has been not used for a period of time if someone else wanted the caching name.

8.8k · July 10, 2009

A real thief would never even log the cache, or the trackable, and you'd never know they were there. The rest are either people who don't know how to log them, people who lost the bug and won't 'fess up, people who forgot they took it, and people who forgot where they dropped it off. Stuff like that. There are thousands of circumstances that could have happened to hold up a bug.

If you expect your bug to move every few days, or every time someone visits the cache, your expectations are set too high. Doing research to see what happened can help. Don't wait forever to send the first polite email, and then, don't email too often and always be polite.

To joranda: I've never heard of that happening.

2.5k · July 11, 2009

In a talk with a lackey before I brought up at one time I wanted to change my profile name and had seen some cool ones that have already been taken but the accounts hadn't been used in a very long time and really had few cache finds to them. She said they had done it before in the past. I'm sure they won't close a account for a member with alot of finds that hasn't been used in awhile in case they was on a break. I'm sure there are alot of accounts that pretty much started and ended the next day.

July 11, 2009

Is there anything that can be done about these "fair weather" or "phantom" cachers? Not sure how much information Groundspeak can garner from new accounts, but is there some way to determine which computer is being used? (Full disclousure: I am not a computer scientist.) These accounts that are created, obtain a few trackables, and then go silent forever...if enough of them come from the same place, couldn't something be done?

We buy the trackables... we own them.... not Groundspeak. They are kind enough to track the mileage for us. I can't imagine expecting them to weed through every account made in hope of finding our other sock the dryer ate.

This is a game/hobby and sometimes our battleship gets sunk. :anitongue:

8.8k · July 11, 2009

We buy the trackables... we own them.... not Groundspeak. They are kind enough to track the mileage for us. I can't imagine expecting them to weed through every account made in hope of finding our other sock the dryer ate.

This is a game/hobby and sometimes our battleship gets sunk.

Excellent post. You hit the nail on the head.

Hostage/Disapearing Trackables

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