Now I'm sad...

[+griswell]

I hid my first cache back on the 30th, and it was finally looked at by a reviewer. They said it cannot be published because another cache is hidden only 261 feet away. I'll have to relocate mine.

 

Bu the one that is 261 feet away is missing, and has been for months. My kids and I looked for it for two hours, and even found the square imprint where it had been. Others have posted recent "did not finds" and nobody has found it in months.

 

This spot is so special to my wife and I, and I can't believe that a dead cache is keeping me from having my first one published.

Edited July 6, 2009 by griswell

[O-Mega]

I hid my first cache back on the 30th, and it was finally looked at by a reviewer. They said it cannot be published because another cache is hidden only 261 feet away. I'll have to relocate mine.

 

Bu the one that is 261 feet away is missing, and has been for months. My kids and I looked for it for two hours, and even found the square imprint where it had been. Others have posted recent "did not finds" and nobody has found it in months.

 

This spot is so special to my wife and I, and I can't believe that a dead cache is keeping me from having my first one published.

Just leave yours in place and have the reviewer "hold" it until the other gets fixed (at which point you move yours) or gets archived.

[+jeffbouldin]

If you have looked for it, it has multiple DNFs and the cache owner will not respond or has not logged in for a long time, then post a Needs Archived on the missing one. This will bring it to the reviewers attention. Then if the owner does not respond the reviewer has the ability to archive the missing cache.

 

Be warned, some cachers may try to accuse you of underhanded practices. But the above process is how to legitimately handle AWOL owners. If you cannot take a little abuse do not try what I am posting to open up the area. If you posted a needs archived on a cache that was being maintained to open the area, then you would be abusing the system.

[+griswell]

I hid my first cache back on the 30th, and it was finally looked at by a reviewer. They said it cannot be published because another cache is hidden only 261 feet away. I'll have to relocate mine.

 

Bu the one that is 261 feet away is missing, and has been for months. My kids and I looked for it for two hours, and even found the square imprint where it had been. Others have posted recent "did not finds" and nobody has found it in months.

 

This spot is so special to my wife and I, and I can't believe that a dead cache is keeping me from having my first one published.

Just leave yours in place and have the reviewer "hold" it until the other gets fixed (at which point you move yours) or gets archived.

 

Well, yes...I could do that. But, mine will not be published and therefore not looked for or located until the other has a change in status, and if that one has been MIA for months, it could be months for mine to see the light of day as well if nothing changes.

 

*sigh*

 

Well, I guess my next question is how to determine the distance. I don't have wireless internet, so I can't check my distance on-site via the website. I don't know if my GPS has a way to tell the distance between two points in feet. And even if I do move it, what happens when I get home and find out that now it's 527 feet from one that was on the other side of the trail?

 

I know...I'm being negative. Sorry.

[+griswell]

If you have looked for it, it has multiple DNFs and the cache owner will not respond or has not logged in for a long time, then post a Needs Archived on the missing one. This will bring it to the reviewers attention. Then if the owner does not respond the reviewer has the ability to archive the missing cache.

 

Be warned, some cachers may try to accuse you of underhanded practices. But the above process is how to legitimately handle AWOL owners. If you cannot take a little abuse do not try what I am posting to open up the area. If you posted a needs archived on a cache that was being maintained to open the area, then you would be abusing the system.

 

No, I won't do that even if I perhaps at some point should. I hate rocking the boat, and I'd be more likely just to move mine.

[O-Mega]

If you have looked for it, it has multiple DNFs and the cache owner will not respond or has not logged in for a long time, then post a Needs Archived on the missing one. This will bring it to the reviewers attention. Then if the owner does not respond the reviewer has the ability to archive the missing cache.

 

Be warned, some cachers may try to accuse you of underhanded practices. But the above process is how to legitimately handle AWOL owners. If you cannot take a little abuse do not try what I am posting to open up the area. If you posted a needs archived on a cache that was being maintained to open the area, then you would be abusing the system.

 

No, I won't do that even if I perhaps at some point should. I hate rocking the boat, and I'd be more likely just to move mine.

 

Many would go the same route just to keep from making waves, but there is nothing wrong with just logging a Needs Maintenance if it has that many DNFs. If the owner is around he will either fix it or archive it, if not the reviewer will archive it in time.

 

As for how to check distance, load the surrounding caches into your gps before going out. When at the desired cache placement use the find option to go to the nearest cache, the gps will give distance to that cache. Be sure to give yourself about a 20-30' "or more" buffer for the error margin.

[jholly]

Many would go the same route just to keep from making waves, but there is nothing wrong with just logging a Needs Maintenance if it has that many DNFs. If the owner is around he will either fix it or archive it, if not the reviewer will archive it in time.

 

Reviewers do not see needs maintenance logs or DNF logs, only the owner. Post a needs maintenance and email the owner. If you get no response or the cache is not fixed in a reasonable period (30 days) or a note has not been posted to the cache, then log a needs archive. The reviewers will see the needs archive log. Some reviewers do a sweep of there area for caches with NA logs or long strings of DNF's, but this is not universal nor is it something that you can count on. Even the reviewers will give the cache owner 30 days to respond to the cache log of impending archiving. It is not a speedy process.

 

If you don't want to wait it out, then move your cache. And yes, load surrounding caches and use your gps to check the distance. Or use mapsource. I use mapsource to check for likely placements, and then fine tune in the field for the exact locations.

 

Jim

[+ventura_kids]

Tell us the cache you want archived. I'll go log a SBA on it.

[+The Blorenges]

Reading the scenario in post#1, I'll go along with the general opinion - Post a NA log yourself.

 

Sometimes these things have to be done.

 

If the spot is that special to you and your wife, isn't it worth waiting out the formalities for a couple of months to let the local reviewer deal with it? Either the cache owner will be woken from their slumber by the NA log, followed by some action from the reviewer and will get their cache sorted, or it will eventually be archived allowing your brand new cache to take over the spot. Either of these results will benefit the local caching community.

 

In the meantime you could start creating another different cache somewhere else. It's good to have a few irons in the fire...

 

MrsB

[+briansnat]

As you found out an inactivated cache or a missing, active cache could block a cache placement. Since this one is missing work with your reviewer. He might give the cache owner a month tio address the problem, and if it isn't taken care of he can archive it. Be patient and you will likely have the spot in a month or so if the other cache owner doesn't take care of business.

[gojkgo]

It's a very good point that taking action will benefit the geocaching community as a whole one way or another. A missing cache doesn't do anyone any good. If there's a procedure in place for this kind of thing, why not use it?

[+drfred]

I'm getting more cutthroat as time goes by, or impatient, or likely both. I try to be nice, and don't see "Needs Archived" as something malicious, but unfortunately some cache owners don't agree. Really I hate to see any caches archived, but I'd rather see places open up for new caches than a disabled cache in my query for months on end.

 

Typically I will post a note on the site such as "any news on this one? I'd love to hunt it if you get a chance to replace it" - usually accompanied by an e-mail to the owner. If a month goes by then a "Needs Maintenance" with a terser "owner needs to check on this one" follows. Another month and no response, and its "needs archived" with a note to the reviewer saying that the owner has not responded.

 

Sometimes I get a nasty e-mail after this saying that I was being mean and that I should have replaced the cache myself (which I often do, but only when the original idea of the cache was clear). Sorry. You can always request to get it un-archived, or even better, relisted as a new cache.

[+drfred]

Actually I'm a softie when it comes to caches put out by kids or someone's first cache - there is one that I've been offering to replace for a few months, but have gotten no response. Have no idea how the cache was originally hidden, so I'm a bit stuck.

Edited July 6, 2009 by drfred

[+NCreviewer]

Sometimes I get a nasty e-mail after this saying that I was being mean and that I should have replaced the cache myself (which I often do, but only when the original idea of the cache was clear). Sorry. You can always request to get it un-archived, or even better, relisted as a new cache.

I don't see anything wrong with nudging a cache owner to maintain their hide. Nor do I see anything wrong with posting a NA to alert the local reviewer if a cache owner isn't responding nor maintaining their hides.

 

I see lots wrong with replacing them yourself with an angel/throwdown cache, but that's a discussion for another thread. The only time I feel that action is warranted is if you know the owner personally, and can get permission to maintain it for them since you just happen to be there. It shouldn't be done for any other reason.

Replacing a missing cache that isn't being maintained is just perpetuating the maintenance problems of the current cache, postponing the same MIA/NA situation for someone else to deal with later on, and admitting that you have a problem posting DNF's.

 

Back to the Original Poster-you are not rocking the boat by posting a Needs Maintenance/Archived log. Those tools exist for good reasons, mostly to allow the geocaching community to self-police itself with regard to missing or bad cache placements. And the narrow definition of bad in this case is one that doesn't comply with the guidelines, not one you simply do not like for any number of reasons.

[+drfred]

I see lots wrong with replacing them yourself with an angel/throwdown cache, but that's a discussion for another thread. The only time I feel that action is warranted is if you know the owner personally, and can get permission to maintain it for them since you just happen to be there. It shouldn't be done for any other reason.

Replacing a missing cache that isn't being maintained is just perpetuating the maintenance problems of the current cache, postponing the same MIA/NA situation for someone else to deal with later on, and admitting that you have a problem posting DNF's.

 

A bit off topic, but I'd generally agree. Nothing ticks me off more than somebody who couldn't find a 4 difficulty micro and hides a keyholder nearby as a "favor".

 

On the other hand, if it is a 1/1 cache, the description says "magnetic keyholder in the usual place", and the hint is "skirt lifter" and the thing is missing, I don't see a problem with replacing it. If I can't get the owner on the phone while on site I'll send them an e-mail saying what (if any) broken parts I found, how I replaced it, and making sure that is OK. People do it for me, and as long as I know about it, greatly appreciate them saving me a trip (although I usually go by to make sure it is the way I wanted it anyway...)

Edited July 6, 2009 by drfred

[+griswell]

I had contacted the cache owner, but haven't gotten any replies. He has his only other cache in the exact same park, about 1000 feet away. We actually found this one. It's full of water (which I drained) and the logs are moldy...along with every thing in the cache. I posted a "needs maintenance" for that one.

 

Eh, it's okay. I'll still follow up on this one, but after a day of good times, I'm thinking maybe I should just move my first hide to a different area altogether. Having it so close to an area this saturated makes for too easy a find.

Edited July 7, 2009 by griswell

[+griswell]

Actually I'm a softie when it comes to caches put out by kids or someone's first cache - there is one that I've been offering to replace for a few months, but have gotten no response. Have no idea how the cache was originally hidden, so I'm a bit stuck.

 

I wish the person who looked at mine was a softie. He was quite matter-of-fact!

 

What frustrated me even more was that today I went back to the spot I'd hidden mine, and moved it to a location that I felt sure was at least 528+ feet from his. I jumped a ravine, scaled an embankment, tore a hole in my new shirt, and got a fresh gash in my arm from a protruding tree limb. I mean, I really went way out there for this one. I was so stoked. I may not have gotten the sentimental spot I originally wanted, but boy did I win an award for bushwhacking.

 

Alas...my GPS does not allow me to get very technical with tracking. (Magellan Explorist 200) Don't laugh, it's all I can afford on a homeschool dad's budget! Once I arrived home, I updated my listing...only to find...

 

(Drum roll please...)

 

My cache is now 320 feet away from another one nearby.

 

*Epic Fail!*

[+BCandMsKitty]

I guess you missed the advice from O-Mega to input all of the surrounding caches before you go out to place yours.

Once you find that "perfect" spot, hit "go to" and select "nearest" and you will see how far you are from any nearby caches. Explorist 200 will do this for you.

Of course, you still run the risk of having a stage of a puzzle cache that might interfere, and you won't have those coords to enter before you go out, but most times you won't run into that.

 

Hope you can find a nice spot for your cache!

 

BC

Edited July 7, 2009 by BC & MsKitty

[+griswell]

Well, I moved my cache today. It wasn't so bad. It was actually quite fun, now that BC, Kitty and others showed me I could determine distances to nearby caches with my GPS!

 

It was listed today as well! Hooray!

Edited July 7, 2009 by griswell

[crawil]

griswell, welcome to the Hider's Club!

[+Renegade Knight]

...Eh, it's okay. I'll still follow up on this one, but after a day of good times, I'm thinking maybe I should just move my first hide to a different area altogether. Having it so close to an area this saturated makes for too easy a find.

 

If the location you have chosen is worthy of a cache, it will still be worthy of a cache when you move your container to another spot.

 

It seems like your immeidate goal is to get a cache listed. If so, go place another cache list it, and keep plugging away at getting this cache approved in the spot that you chose because you like it. The other MIA cache will be resolved soon enough. While we can get pretty excited about this activity, it's not life or death.

[+Renegade Knight]

Well, I moved my cache today. It wasn't so bad. It was actually quite fun, now that BC, Kitty and others showed me I could determine distances to nearby caches with my GPS!

 

It was listed today as well! Hooray!

 

Looks like you already have your 2nd cache location picked out.