Auctions and private non-designer sales clarifications

[+scavok]

I just watched a coin that I designed go on ebay for 4 times the original selling price. A major reason behind this is that the auction blatently states "Sold out Shiny Gold LE Night and Day Geocoin This is a 2" coin and has great detail. This is not a regular edition and is the HTF version." Which is completely false. The only LE version is the satin gold trader version.

 

I propose making posts here with links, item #s, or anything else that can easily be found using the forum search tool by anyone seeking true stats and descriptions.

 

My hope is the maintain the integrity of coin sales here and elsewhere by pointing out honest mistakes as well as blatant liars.

 

Item: Shiny Gold Night & Day

Sale At: eBay

Item Number: 140330281698

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=140330281698

Clarification: NOT an LE - these may well be minted again

Source: designer is your's truly

Edited July 5, 2009 by scavok

[+UFgatorgirl]

that information would be great for those of us who are newer and don't know much about older coins. for me older coins are any from 2008 and before.

[+scavok]

that information would be great for those of us who are newer and don't know much about older coins. for me older coins are any from 2008 and before.

 

Absolutely, it may also be good to point things out for items that are being auctioned as sold-out but are still available from their original sales locations.

 

 

Item: Satin 2-tone Gold around Silver Tengwar NAWWAL

Sale At: eBay

Item Number: 250454589336

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=250454589336

Clarification: Minting Total is 34, not 25. It is an LE. - Seller has been notified via eBay.

Source: designer is your's truly - the descrepency stems from a mistake of mine that I've been trying to clarify ever since.

Edited July 5, 2009 by scavok

[+nefesh]

A great idea. I'm all for keeping the integrity of coins intact. Maybe a sticky?

[+BRoKeN W]

When I list coin,s I list them to the best of my knowledge. I'll even do a bit of research if I'm not sure. If they're incorrect I would greatly appreciate a nice e-mail telling me of my mistake along with the correct information.

 

I really don't think it's very appropriate or nice to post link to people's auctions here. But that's just me. It might help the seller sell their coin, but it also might embarrass them and make them feel like an idiot.

 

You also must remember that not all ebay seller's visit this forum so they might be limited on their research methods. Plus, not all coin information can be found in the forums.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

 

Back to the shadows for me.

[+Fiery Searcher]

You also must remember that not all ebay seller's visit this forum so they might be limited on their research methods. Plus, not all coin information can be found in the forums.

 

As a researcher, I am keenly aware that anything I put in print is subject to scrutiny, and I think ebay sales are no exception. I totally agree that people who are not aware of these forums may be limited in their access to information, but then WHY make claims when you aren't sure? Isn't it better to err on the side of caution? If the sellers know that including "HTF" and "RE,SE,AE,LE" and the like may increase the bidding potential of the coin(s), then they should be savvy enough to know to NOT put these abbreviations if they aren't sure about them.

 

I think Scavok's idea is a great one. I've thought about posting coins on the e-place and including in the description things like "Readily available for much cheaper at *******.com" or "I got this at such-and-such.com and you should check out their website for the next sale." I'm not going to do this at all, but the idea came in response to reading a totally misleading item description some time ago.

 

Off topic, but didn't someone try to start a website/forum list of coins, number minted, version available, costs, etc at some point? I think it became too large to keep track of...

[+LadyBee4T]

When I list coin,s I list them to the best of my knowledge. I'll even do a bit of research if I'm not sure. If they're incorrect I would greatly appreciate a nice e-mail telling me of my mistake along with the correct information.

 

I really don't think it's very appropriate or nice to post link to people's auctions here. But that's just me. It might help the seller sell their coin, but it also might embarrass them and make them feel like an idiot.

 

You also must remember that not all ebay seller's visit this forum so they might be limited on their research methods. Plus, not all coin information can be found in the forums.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

 

 

It seems like a good idea but for the most part I agree more with what BroKeN W has said. IMO I don't think the second link should have even been posted here. As you stated it actually was your fault and not the seller. An email to the seller is appropiate. But after the item has bids it can't be changed only added to the description and I'm not sure if even that can be done in the last 12 hours of the auction.

 

The buyer also should be doing their own research but they may not come here either. I have sold coins as sold out. Then right after I list them and they have bids I see that there is going to be another minting. Is that wrong? Nope because I used the info I had when I listed the coin. I would be really ticked off if that coin was listed in a thread like this. Yes there are blatant misrepresentations but there are honest mistakes too. What I am saying is that there are two sides to every story.

[+scavok]

I simply mean it as another source of information, nothing more. A person putting "tengwar geocoin" into google may pull up that ebay auction first and a link to this thread second. If the buyer happens to visit both, it could save them a headache and a couple bucks.

[+LadyBee4T]

I simply mean it as another source of information, nothing more.

 

What it seems to me that you want is a resource of the ones that are blatantly misrepresented. If that is the case than the second link should not be listed here. It was your mistake not theirs. Just being in a thread like this one could send the wrong info to the reader even though you do state that you initially made the mistake.

[+scavok]

... As you stated it actually was your fault and not the seller. An email to the seller is appropiate. But after the item has bids it can't be changed only added to the description and I'm not sure if even that can be done in the last 12 hours of the auction...

 

... Yes there are blatant misrepresentations but there are honest mistakes too. What I am saying is that there are two sides to every story...

 

What it seems to me that you want is a resource of the ones that are blatantly misrepresented...

 

To point 1: thats precisely the point. The seller isn't going to cancel the auction, it is continuing as is. The item isn't being sold as described which in my opinion is wrong. I know the seller and have no qualms or hard feelings otherwise. They know about it now and should be held accountable.

 

To point 2: an honest mistake can still be a blatant (even unintentional) misrepresentation

 

To point 3: Yep. And not to pick on the seller by any means; just to make an example. I don't care who made the mistake; if you are selling a coins saying it is 1 of 25 when it is really 1 of 34, it is no moot point of sale IMHO (and I would hope the vast majority would agree with me).

[+LadyBee4T]

... As you stated it actually was your fault and not the seller. An email to the seller is appropiate. But after the item has bids it can't be changed only added to the description and I'm not sure if even that can be done in the last 12 hours of the auction...

 

... Yes there are blatant misrepresentations but there are honest mistakes too. What I am saying is that there are two sides to every story...

 

What it seems to me that you want is a resource of the ones that are blatantly misrepresented...

 

To point 1: thats precisely the point. The seller isn't going to cancel the auction, it is continuing as is. The item isn't being sold as described which in my opinion is wrong. I know the seller and have no qualms or hard feelings otherwise. They know about it now and should be held accountable.

 

To point 2: an honest mistake can still be a blatant (even unintentional) misrepresentation

 

To point 3: Yep. And not to pick on the seller by any means; just to make an example. I don't care who made the mistake; if you are selling a coins saying it is 1 of 25 when it is really 1 of 34, it is no moot point of sale IMHO (and I would hope the vast majority would agree with me).

 

Even if the vast majority agree with you I personally don't. That person in the second link didn't make a mistake you did and you are calling them out for it. The item IS being sold as it was described to them (by you) when they listed that auction. I understand that it is 34 not 25 but they can't change it now without pulling the auction. Should they lose the listing fees because you made the mistake? I don't think so. You can say that they won't lose the listing fees and it is a small amount anyway. They can relist it for free and it will sell. BUT maybe they couldn't list it again for several weeks for some reason and they need the money now. I don't know who the seller is and it really doesn't matter as it is an example of the type of thing you are talking about.

 

An honest mistake should be taken care of with an email to the seller and not here.

[+scavok]

The stats were correct on my website when the listing was created.

 

And an email was sent and replied to.

 

I'm not calling anyone out for anything other than that the selling description is incorrect on an active auction and the seller had been notified.

 

I think it is wrong and I'm doing something about it. If you don't like the post then report it or ignore it.

[+Wandering Vikings]

We see auctions of our coins with errors all the time! Sometimes its as small as saying a coin is Bronze instead of Antique Gold, sometimes its saying a coin that is currently in stock and SE is a "VHTF Sold Out XLE" there has even been a listing for one of our coins in a two-tone finish that was never minted! (Not sure how they're going to manage that one)

 

Unfortunately there is no easy way to police Ebay. Some sellers are legit some are people just out to make a buck any way they can. We email the seller on the really bad listings, but as others have mentioned it doesn't do anything to change the listing... Saddly it just boils down to buyer beware!

[+tsunrisebey]

We see auctions of our coins with errors all the time! Sometimes its as small as saying a coin is Bronze instead of Antique Gold, sometimes its saying a coin that is currently in stock and SE is a "VHTF Sold Out XLE" there has even been a listing for one of our coins in a two-tone finish that was never minted! (Not sure how they're going to manage that one)

 

Unfortunately there is no easy way to police Ebay. Some sellers are legit some are people just out to make a buck any way they can. We email the seller on the really bad listings, but as others have mentioned it doesn't do anything to change the listing... Saddly it just boils down to buyer beware!

 

I agree, I've seen the same types of auctions on stuff I've done and I've emailed people. A few were polite and fixed their auctions and others kept their auctions up and pretty much ignored me It bothered me more when people put pictures up of coins that weren't representative of the one they were acutally selling or I KNEW they didn't own. After some time went by I quit paying attention to ebay because it just isn't worth the time trying to be the ebay police when it came to my designs. You just have to pick and choose which battles are worth fighting. In the end while sellers should be honest, buyers have the ability to research the coin in question. I receive questions from people who are considering buying a coin on ebay to see if the information posted is correct. I do take the time to go look at the auction and get back to the potential buyer.

 

I can see this thread starting off with one intention only to stray into other directions when it comes to ebay auctions. I hardly ever sell on ebay so I don't really have an opinion on the posting links portion but I can say I'm not hunting around on ebay to look for incorrect auctions. (special for you Roger )

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think those selling sites have methods in place already for reporting this type of abuse(or error). I don't think this is the place for policing all the potential places where Coins could be sold.

[+Arrow42]

If someone is misrepresenting an item in an auction I'm sure e-bay would want to hear about it.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Arrow42

[haysonics]

 

My hope is the maintain the integrity of coin sales here and elsewhere by pointing out honest mistakes as well as blatant liars.

 

 

Thanks for caring about those less able. You obviously have taken an even handed approach with this sensitive matter and will continue to do so. I wish there were more people like you.

[+tsunrisebey]

 

Thanks for caring about those less able. You obviously have taken an even handed approach with this sensitive matter and will continue to do so. I wish there were more people like you.

 

EDIT: erased my post.... no need for me to get sucked back into the drama, forgot how alluring it can be Back to lurking and minding my own business. Nothing to see here folks

Edited July 6, 2009 by tsunrisebey

[+cache_in_hand]

Personally, I think to start off with, some definitions should be set for what constitutes LE SE AE etc. Is it less than 20 minted, or less than 100 minted? Who knows? I have seen coins described as LE's that have over 100 copies minted, and others that have 10. Also, in my opinion a coin shouldn't be described as LE if it is intended to be reminted or reproduced in the future.

[haysonics]

 

Thanks for caring about those less able. You obviously have taken an even handed approach with this sensitive matter and will continue to do so. I wish there were more people like you.

 

I'm curious about this comment so I am going to ask; does this mean that designers and vendors who do not go to ebay and police the designs that they have sold, mean that they don't care? I'm just looking for clarification.

 

Fair question. I did not wish to imply that designers have an obligation to police ebay. You are not responsible for your designs being resold. I support scavok's thread because it aims to help buyers and he is going above and beyond the call of duty. I think it is a great idea to have a thread where everyone can correct misleading information posted on ebay. I hope many people support this idea. I am confident it can be done in a sensitive way so that it doesn't become a witch hunt.

 

You can never have too much transparency in a market. Transparency protects your investment. It is the difference between an amateur and a mature market. The geocoin market is tetering on maturity. Its almost there.

Edited July 6, 2009 by haysonics

[haysonics]

Personally, I think to start off with, some definitions should be set for what constitutes LE SE AE etc. Is it less than 20 minted, or less than 100 minted? Who knows? I have seen coins described as LE's that have over 100 copies minted, and others that have 10. Also, in my opinion a coin shouldn't be described as LE if it is intended to be reminted or reproduced in the future.

 

Yes ! Definitions are required. We can avoid confusion over the numbers of coins minted by defining a Limited Edition as simply limited in number. Personally, I believe the meaning of LE should be restricted to being a single minting. If a coin is reminted what is to say it won't be reminted a third time or a fourth, etc? I would rather call a coin that has been reminted an RE (Regular Edition). What about SE and AE and Trade Only ? Are they always limited in number? Should they be? And to a single minting?

 

NOTE: By remint, I mean a remint of a particular colour/metal. Designers often do a second minting but use different colours/metals. That is not really a "remint" per se because there is a different colour/metal.

Edited July 6, 2009 by haysonics

[+Droo]

What's all the fuss about?

 

Sellers claims only 25 similar coins were minted instead of 34??? Many Tengwars were minted (it seems to me) so it's easy to mistake a run of 34 or 25 as a limited edition.... under normal circumstances. I'd assume with all the different finishes done in this design that the 2 tone would be a limited one - but that's me. There are worse misrepresentations on Ebay so I think this particular case is particularly harsh on the seller....IMO.

[+scavok]

EDIT: erased my post.... no need for me to get sucked back into the drama, forgot how alluring it can be Back to lurking and minding my own business. Nothing to see here folks

 

Where's the color in that??

 

Haysonics - thank you for your posts, its good to see someone understood my apparently hazy intent

 

Yes you are all correct that some sort of definitions are in order, even if we can't all agree on universal definitions maybe we can urge designers/vendors to define their own? Thoughts...

[avroair]

I just watched a coin that I designed go on ebay for 4 times the original selling price. A major reason behind this is that the auction blatently states "Sold out Shiny Gold LE Night and Day Geocoin This is a 2" coin and has great detail. This is not a regular edition and is the HTF version." Which is completely false. The only LE version is the satin gold trader version.

 

I propose making posts here with links, item #s, or anything else that can easily be found using the forum search tool by anyone seeking true stats and descriptions.

 

My hope is the maintain the integrity of coin sales here and elsewhere by pointing out honest mistakes as well as blatant liars.

 

Item: Shiny Gold Night & Day

Sale At: eBay

Item Number: 140330281698

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=140330281698

Clarification: NOT an LE - these may well be minted again

Source: designer is your's truly

 

I disagree, it's impossible to keep up with some aspects of coins such as remints etc. What used to be one and done is now minted over and over and over so sellers never truly know when coins are sold out or not.

 

I usually send the seller a friendly email correcting them of an error I know is wrong. I find it works better than trying to keep up with coin stats.

[avroair]

Personally, I think to start off with, some definitions should be set for what constitutes LE SE AE etc. Is it less than 20 minted, or less than 100 minted? Who knows? I have seen coins described as LE's that have over 100 copies minted, and others that have 10. Also, in my opinion a coin shouldn't be described as LE if it is intended to be reminted or reproduced in the future.

 

Yes ! Definitions are required. We can avoid confusion over the numbers of coins minted by defining a Limited Edition as simply limited in number. Personally, I believe the meaning of LE should be restricted to being a single minting. If a coin is reminted what is to say it won't be reminted a third time or a fourth, etc? I would rather call a coin that has been reminted an RE (Regular Edition). What about SE and AE and Trade Only ? Are they always limited in number? Should they be? And to a single minting?

 

NOTE: By remint, I mean a remint of a particular colour/metal. Designers often do a second minting but use different colours/metals. That is not really a "remint" per se because there is a different colour/metal.

 

There was a whole thread *ahem argument* devoted to this that dominated the forums for weeks, when vendors who were relatively new decided to rename SE (which originally stood for standard edition) to Special Edition ~ a special remint that is not necessarily limited. And AE which originally was a token of appreciation to a designer which then turned into an XLE to make more money.

[avroair]

We see auctions of our coins with errors all the time! Sometimes its as small as saying a coin is Bronze instead of Antique Gold, sometimes its saying a coin that is currently in stock and SE is a "VHTF Sold Out XLE" there has even been a listing for one of our coins in a two-tone finish that was never minted! (Not sure how they're going to manage that one)

 

Unfortunately there is no easy way to police Ebay. Some sellers are legit some are people just out to make a buck any way they can. We email the seller on the really bad listings, but as others have mentioned it doesn't do anything to change the listing... Saddly it just boils down to buyer beware!

 

Explaining the two-tone thing: it was probably a previous listing that the seller cut and pasted or used an exisiting format and forgot to change it. I have done this many times and fix it whenever I catch it or someone points it out. There was one time when the person was after a specific coin and I had the wrong metal listed (the picture was the correct one), so I refunded the money and returned the coin, not a big deal. Mistakes happen.

 

We email the seller on the really bad listings I also do this, it is also appreciated if I botch up a listing.

[+DJ.J.ROCK]

Wow what a thread....lol... I design and thought, heck why not chime in...mind you im out at lake of the ozarks, about 700 miles from home, its probably 130 am and a full moon out on lake and our condo is about 50 feet from the lake just a beautiful night looking into a distant fog of mile less water.. (I sooo needed this )....so anyway.... ha ha

 

I think ill agree with a lot of points here.... first I agree with scavok on having a place to just post misleading information...

here's why... its really just 1 more source of information. It will help peps in making a buying decision. It can't hurt, but I also agree that an email should be sent to the seller too. No one has to be a police of that site but ones who are bothered by it (wrong info)can post and then they will feel better after their posting..because they will feel like they have helped someone else..it may also bring new users to the forums when they search for info.

I also agree an LE should only be minted once and it dosent matter how many are minted in that one minting so long as that color metal configuration is never used again for another minting for sales. It is limited and all other coins may be subject to another sale from a remint..its what keeps the values of coins going up or down and weighs in sometimes when making a trade or buy, thats why his coin sold for 4 times the value. Because the bidders thought it would never be reminted or something in a factor like that.

As far as the link thing goes,,I think its up to the user if they want to post it or nott,again it may make them feel better to let others know.

 

Well it took a long time to post that from my phone. Lol hope colorado is good scavok im nottttttt missing it right now,,,ha ha ha.

 

dj.j.rock

[+Landsharkz]

We rarely ever look on EBay for coins we've designed/sold, but occasionally someone will bring one to our attention for a variety of reasons. I do think it's buyer beware and 'do your homework'. We've had coins for sale on our site that were also on EBay listed as sold out. In those cases I've sent the seller a note with a link to our site showing that it's not sold out at all. I think we miss most of the erroneous listings though, because we just don't have time to spend looking at EBay with any regularity or consistency.

 

BTW, SE is Special Ed. RE is Regular Ed. right? There is no Standard Ed, and Antique Bronze is way nicer than Antique Gold, (and costs less!) but folks get them mixed around all the time after the coins are in hand and no longer in design. LOL! Getting your AB and AG mixed up is as common as the sniffles, unless you've got them side by side.

[+ZenRVers]

As someone who has just started to buy coins. I very much appreciate the intent and efforts behind this thread. If interested in a coin on ebay I immediately google it's name trying find out any info I can. So a post here giving the correct details would be great, no reason to include a link to the ebay item or even mention it.

 

Have a sticky thread with no editorials each post short and simple making it easy to search. Something like.

 

Coin or series Name:

Designer:

Mint:

50 in Black nickle 2006 LE

200 gold 2006

75 brushed silver 2008 SE

Silver minting ongoing 400 so far

[+DresselDragons]

I am going to have to agree with BrokenW’s stand on this one. Not all errors on the e-place are intentional. I know when we were putting up coins for sale to raise funds for GCF, it took an awful lot of research to come up with the background information for coins. Sometimes we got it right, sometimes not. People are not perfect…information online regarding coins is not perfect either (I’ve seen plenty of conflicting info out there). Sometimes it is just late at night, and you are not paying close attention to what you are listing (LOL). No matter what, I believe your first step is to email the person who listed the coin and point out their error…give them a chance to fix it (if they can, once there is a bid on the item, you can no longer edit the item, I think) before you drag them thru the mud. Before accusations are made (to the TPTB at eBay or here), you need to at least give the lister an opportunity to fix the problem. It would be a shame to point fingers if it is an innocent mistake. Also, keep in mind, that many folks that purchase coins on eBay may never venture in these forums...a list of this sort would not benefit them at all (and they would probably be the folks that would benefit the most from this info). Many folks here in the forums already know if a particular coin is still available at the original store, and would not be looking to purchase one on eBay in the first place.

 

In regards to the LE/SE/AE/etc definitions...if you search the forums, you will find many "colorful" discussions regarding these definitions. Until everyone agrees to standard definitions AND adheres to them, there will always be confusion.

[+forthferalz]

shameless plug for trackablegeocoins.wetpaint.com - PLEASE list your stats there - it will be an easily searched referenced source newbies can refer to to find the original sales information. HTF often just means obscurely buried on the internet ...

[+Clan Doyle]

As someone who has just started to buy coins. I very much appreciate the intent and efforts behind this thread. If interested in a coin on ebay I immediately google it's name trying find out any info I can. So a post here giving the correct details would be great, no reason to include a link to the ebay item or even mention it.

 

Have a sticky thread with no editorials each post short and simple making it easy to search.

 

I whole heartedly agree. If we want to promote truth in coining, without saddling one person with tons of research, this is the way to go. Each coiner posts his own stuff, and we all reap the benefit. Now, I know there are coiners that don't come to the forums ( ) but we could get alot of info in there. And if you have a website with that info already, a simple link would do.

 

There are a lot of trading sites that do this, so I think we should do it as well. Just my $.02

[+steel city babes]

I am going to agree with dresseldragon and brokenw's stand too.

 

I think if you detect and error to notify the seller and see where it goes from there.

 

If the seller doesn't update then maybe bring it here or email the bidders if you are intent on policing ebay.

 

I do sell on ebay and do the best to get it right. I like Avroair mentioned welcome the feedback and do the best to correct the listing if it is indeed listed incorrectly. I had a coin listed as AG and it was AB (or visa versa), I wasn't trying to be misleading I had no idea, the actual owner sent me an email telling me my error. I immediately made a entry update and contacted both bidders of the coin of my error and advised they could retract their bid if they wanted.

 

I also had someone question a 2007 compass rose listing as LE.... I based it off various other auctions and I tried to go back and find the appropriate info on the coin but used www.geocoincollection.com for listing the satin gold as LE(which i think i entered in the listing or updated)...I no longer had my invoice to determine if that was indeed the case. I even sent email to the company where I purchased and never got response. If anyone wants to enlighten me on this one please feel free in a PM.

[+Renegade Knight]

Personally, I think to start off with, some definitions should be set for what constitutes LE SE AE etc. Is it less than 20 minted, or less than 100 minted? Who knows? I have seen coins described as LE's that have over 100 copies minted, and others that have 10. Also, in my opinion a coin shouldn't be described as LE if it is intended to be reminted or reproduced in the future.

 

There are no accepted definitions and there is certainly no sanctioning body to give the guidance that the community could buy into.

 

LE, SE, AE, are all the same. "Variations in color and/or finish from the main minting in less numbers for some reason, maybe".

[YemonYime]

shameless plug for trackablegeocoins.wetpaint.com - PLEASE list your stats there - it will be an easily searched referenced source newbies can refer to to find the original sales information. HTF often just means obscurely buried on the internet ...

 

Thanks for creating that site! I'm sure lots of helpful information can be found through user contributions.

 

Everyone please keep in mind though, that just as Avroair said, it's nearly impossible to keep the information 100% correct. There's really only one true way to know the edition, rarity, uniqueness, etc. of any geocoin, and that's to deal directly with the source. You may not like to hear it, but that's the way of the geocoin world.

 

There are many people that make their purchases from the original seller, and then resell on eBay, fully knowing that a whole market of people missed the sale. Again, that's how it goes. And the buying public is then at their mercy when it comes to accuracy and honesty. Many resellers have a good reputation, and provide a valuable service when you're looking for that special coin that you just can't find elsewhere. Some resellers rely on what's posted elsewhere, and (as was witnessed here) even that information can be inaccurate.

 

Regarding designers seeing their own products show up on the eBay aftermarket, again...that's just the way of the geocoin world. I've seen dozens of my designs sold on eBay with completely ridiculous overstatements of rarity, and I'd be wasting away far too much of my life trying to correct those.

 

So the bottom line is (and this has been said over and over and over again) CAVEAT EMPTOR. Buyer beware. There is no simpler manner to state this warning, so please let this sink in as a rock solid fact. There is no governing body of standardization for geocoin labels, editions, etc., and there probably won't ever be. GC.com is not in the business to protect buyers from misinformation, and does very little beyond providing tracking numbers and approving designs. This forum does a pretty good job of exposing problems, but also has a tendency to create undue accusations over petty matters.

 

In summary, collectors are on their own to find out fact from fabrication. But lists like the one mentioned can at least help in some isolated instances.

 

Happy Geocoining!

Yime

Edited July 7, 2009 by YemonYime