Glass Containers

1.1k · June 30, 2009

I've designed my cammo on my lock&locks (actually, sterlite) with UV protection in mind. I'll let you know in 2 years how they are doing. lol

4.5k · June 30, 2009

Splitting this off from the CCC thread

Well here are some more i made. I plan to glue a rock on the other jar and the tylenol container. So what do you think.

[iNSERT PICTURE OF A COUPLE OF CONTAINERS MADE OF GLASS]

This clearly has to be a joke.

And if it ain't, you should also know that using glass jars is generally considered a no-no. Glass has been known to break and I've been known to CITO glass.

Clearly your comment must be a joke. Are you implying you destroy someones cache if it doesnt fit to your guidelines? Im so sick of the "greater then thou geocachers".

the Geo-mafia is gonna get yea becareful!!

Play word games all you want. The guidelines clearly suggest that glass is generally a bad idea and you choose to ignore the guidelines. No, I don't destroy caches. But I'd have no problem removing any glass from any area where it might be a hazzard. If you place your glass jars and they break, I am carrying them out. If you think that is being "greater than thou", then I guess I am.

There's no doubt that there are some places where using a glass container is not good. But to say that all glass should be banned is rediculous. Our second cache ever placed is coming up on it's 7th anniversary and guess what? ,,, it's a glass jar that's gone through a myriad of weather, including two hurricanes, and quite a few cachers. This is the original container and has never had any problems with breakage or inletting of moisture...

My thinking here,, Glass is used to contain many items we use daily. Grocery and department store shelves are full of them, all of which have gone through manufacturing, shipping, stocking, buying and then taken home for use by us consumers. It seems to me that if they are as fragile as you think, that they couldn't survive all that they go through.

June 30, 2009

Lock n locks are terrible containers in the desert. Extremes of temperature and UV exposure rot away the tops in a year or so. The bottoms generally hold out a little longer, so what you end up with is a tub of slime after the rainy season.

Extreme temperatures? You mean like we have in Minnesota? I've never seen a melted lock & lock. I have seen a couple of broken ones... they do get brittle in our sub-zero temperatures. But very few are out caching in that weather.

I would assume that UV exposure is rare... are those L&L's placed right in the open, without any UV protection?

Let me rephrase to reflect only those facts that I know for certain: (1) I have seen many Lock-n-Lock containers that became brittle and collapsed. (2) Those Lock-n-Locks were used as Geocache containers in the states of Arizona and New Mexico at elevations ranging from 1800 to 9000+ feet. (3) Those Lock-n-Lock caches had placement dates that indicated ages of a year or less. Their owners may have stored those containers for years in energized tanning beds or on sunlit windowsills prior to placement, but I do not have that information.

I cannot with certainty blame the demise of those containers on a particular cause. I have never seen a melted Lock-n-Lock either; the failure mode seemed to be embrittlement followed by collapse. At any rate, something, perhaps confined only to my area of operations, caused these covered plastic tubs to collapse into ruin fairly soon after they were listed as caches.

Must be something in the lutefisk.

2.4k · June 30, 2009

I have never seen a glass cache container....yet. Somewhere I did read that glass wasn't recommended because of the possibilty of breakage, and therefore, injury. I cannot for the life of me find that now. If the jar were partly "submerged" in something ( wood, concrete, whatever ) and just the lid exposed, would that help prevent the jar slipping and breaking? (This would only apply to the Mason type jar, obviously.)

June 30, 2009

I'm sure Florida caches would already know this but Glass is responsible for most of the fires here in florida. In a dry spell, the sun heats up the glass to a point where it can ignite the surronding vegitation. So, in my opinion, Glass is a bad idea no matter how you look at it.
Ok, I'll call this one. Because most glass is at least semi-transparent, it couldn't heat up more than the surrounding material. I *might* possibly believe you if you claim that bits of clear glass could magnify and focus sunlight on the surrounding vegetation, heating it to the point of ignition (most kids do this experiment with a magnifying glass).

But you're saying that random bits of discarded glass causes more fires in Florida than arson, negligently built campfires, lightning, or drunken fire flies?

Have to agree with that one. Arson and debris from controlled burning are the leaders in causing Florida wildfires. The Pendragon that was once a Florida firefighter (and fought his share of brush fires) suggested that glass could certainly cause a fire - if someone decides to make a Molotov cocktail out of a glass bottle.

Fires aside - at least you don't have to worry as much about someone dropping a rock on your cache in Florida. They aren't exactly plentiful in the woods here!

1.1k · June 30, 2009

...the failure mode seemed to be embrittlement followed by collapse...

It is possible that this is simply a function of the plastic as it oxidizes over time. UV is a clasic cause of plastic and rubber decay, but o2/o3 can decay some plastics.

They are selling a product. I wonder if they choose the material knowing that they will be have a particular lifespan?

Ok, I'll put my tinfoil hat away now.

4.2k · June 30, 2009

My thinking here,, Glass is used to contain many items we use daily. Grocery and department store shelves are full of them, all of which have gone through manufacturing, shipping, stocking, buying and then taken home for use by us consumers. It seems to me that if they are as fragile as you think, that they couldn't survive all that they go through.

A few points to counter the "glass containers are so common why are you people acting like they will explode on contact with the air" crowd:

The conditions on the shelves at Wal-Mart do not compare to the conditions found at ground zero of most caching hides.

Objects that are contained in glass are shipped with some means of protection surrounding the glass and are stacked on trucks in a way that is most protective of the cargo.

Most food products that are still sold in glass are done for reasons of flavor/presentation or because the chemicals in said foods react to metal/plastic. Most products that once were sold in glass are now sold in plastic- for safety reasons.

The US Post Office won't let you ship in a glass container. IMHO, handling of a single package much better represents the conditions an average cache is submitted to.

I'm sure there are the 2% of hides were a glass container might suffice. I'd be willing to wager that an ammo can or plastic container would still be the better choice for 99% of those. I'd also be willing to bet that for every well-placed, protected glass container there is one mayo jar that's been tossed under a log waiting to be stepped on.

20.7k · June 30, 2009

... And frankly, I don't get the "cheap" bit. I've never been involved in a hobby that didn't cost something. Hiders should, in my opinion, spend what they need to for a quality container, or don't bother.

I completely agree. Hiders should pony up the minimum amount to have a good container for the location. If that container happens to be sitting in your kitchen cabinet, pantry, camera case or garage, that means that the cache owner would not have to spend a single dime. This is true whether the container is an ammo can, a LnL, a film can, or a glass jar.

The location determines the suitability of the container.

... I haven't encountered a broken glass cache container yet, but I have found several that clearly were no longer weatherproof.

So if the cache was located in such a place that didn't get wet and was unlikely to cause the jar to be broken, glass would be about perfect, right?

From http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#contents

"Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache."

That guideline has nothing to do with cache containers, or glass.

Lock n locks are terrible containers in the desert. Extremes of temperature and UV exposure rot away the tops in a year or so. The bottoms generally hold out a little longer, so what you end up with is a tub of slime after the rainy season.
Extreme temperatures? You mean like we have in Minnesota? I've never seen a melted lock & lock. I have seen a couple of broken ones... they do get brittle in our sub-zero temperatures. But very few are out caching in that weather.

I would assume that UV exposure is rare... are those L&L's placed right in the open, without any UV protection?

So you both agree that LnLs are not good containers in all cases.

20.7k · June 30, 2009

I'm sure there are the 2% of hides were a glass container might suffice. I'd be willing to wager that an ammo can or plastic container would still be the better choice for 99% of those. I'd also be willing to bet that for every well-placed, protected glass container there is one mayo jar that's been tossed under a log waiting to be stepped on.

You appear to have changed your argument from 'glass containers are wrong' to 'glass containers are wrong for some caches'.

I think that everyone will agree with your new position. Glass containers would not be acceptable in many cache locations. Similarly, ammo cans, LnLs, film cans, magnetic key holders, bison tubes, PVC, mint cans, preforms, cryo tubes, pb jars, tupperware, and any other kind of container would not be universally acceptable.

5.6k · June 30, 2009

From http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#contents

"Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache."

That guideline has nothing to do with cache containers, or glass.

But it does have something to do with glass containers filled with white lightning placed in caches.

4.2k · June 30, 2009

I'm sure there are the 2% of hides were a glass container might suffice. I'd be willing to wager that an ammo can or plastic container would still be the better choice for 99% of those. I'd also be willing to bet that for every well-placed, protected glass container there is one mayo jar that's been tossed under a log waiting to be stepped on.
You appear to have changed your argument from 'glass containers are wrong' to 'glass containers are wrong for some caches'.

I think that everyone will agree with your new position. Glass containers would not be acceptable in many cache locations. Similarly, ammo cans, LnLs, film cans, magnetic key holders, bison tubes, PVC, mint cans, preforms, cryo tubes, pb jars, tupperware, and any other kind of container would not be universally acceptable.

How about I've defined my position and it is this: the hide locations that would be suitable and sustainable for a glass container are so rare and insignificant that combined with the potential for creating hazardous trash in the case of container failure, the likelihood of catastrophic* failure vs. minor failure, and the availability of containers that do not have these faults places the use of glass as a cache container material so far on the scale of "good and bad"** that I can't really see the numbers even if I squint my eyes up real tight and get a headache in the process.**

So bring out your pedantic nit-picking toys if you must, but I think I can still get away with "glass are bad, m'kay" for the majority of the viewing audience.

*Catastrophic for the container. Not like mushroom cloud, wipe out a small town catastrophe. IE: a little crack tends to ruin the overall structural integrity.

**Where 0 is pure evil and 10 is a cute bunny in a field with a kitten. Patent Pending.

***Thanks for the headache.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Castle Mischief

20.7k · June 30, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Edited June 30, 2009 by sbell111

4.2k · June 30, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Ah, the old Yawn Defense. I see you have studied under the Masters.

19k · June 30, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Others are free to use nothing but a paper bag as a container for their cache. But that doesn't mean that I can't think that it is a terrible idea. I mean... "why?", when you could have used a glass jar instead! To those that use glass, I would also ask, "Why?" when you could have used plastic or metal instead.

20.7k · June 30, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Others are free to use nothing but a paper bag as a container for their cache. But that doesn't mean that I can't think that it is a terrible idea. I mean... "why?", when you could have used a glass jar instead! To those that use glass, I would also ask, "Why?" when you could have used plastic or metal instead.

As long as the container is adequate for the location, it's fine. This is true no matter what the container is made out of. Not all geocaches need to use a triple-gasketed titanium alloy box. Edited June 30, 2009 by sbell111

20.7k · June 30, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Ah, the old Yawn Defense. I see you have studied under the Masters.

Whatever.

My point was made in the first two sentences (and previous posts). As a bonus, I don't need a defense.

8k · June 30, 2009

The conditions on the shelves at Wal-Mart do not compare to the conditions found at ground zero of most caching hides.

Most often the cache I've found in glass containers are on the ground, perhaps convered by rocks or sticks. They are much less likely to fall and break that a glass container on s shelf at Wal*Mart. If a geocacher were to drop the container when opening it to sign a log, it would likely fall in the mud or on the grass and not on the hard floor like it would at Wal*Mart. In any event, if geocaches are such klutzes that they are going to be dropping glass jars, then we ought to ban ammo cans. I heard of geocacher getting hurt when their fingers got caught in the latch on an ammo can. I haven't heard of anyone getting hurt because a glass cache container shattered in their hands.

The US Post Office won't let you ship in a glass container. IMHO, handling of a single package much better represents the conditions an average cache is submitted to.

The post office probably won't let you ship in a plastic tupperware container either. What you can do is put your glass or plastic in a carton that is approved and mail it. Again a cache is basically sitting there until a cacher finds it. The cacher opens the container to sign the log and make trades, closes the container and puts it back. You make it sound like a cacher is supposed to find the container, smash it open on the rocks, and pick through the shards to sign the log and trade items. It doesn't work this way. Glass containers are certainly not a good idea if the cache is hidden precariously halfway up a cliff or in a tree 10 feet off the ground. But caches are often sitting on relatively level ground in a pile of rocks or sticks.

The glass caches I have found tend to be lacking in keeping out water. And the glass is so good a keeping in water that they tend to fill up and never dry out. But as far a breakage is concerned, except in situations where the is high probability of dropping the cache on a hard surface from sufficient height, glass tends to hold up better than plastic over time.

20.7k · June 30, 2009

All caches should be hidden in cardboard boxes. The US Postal Service has determined that this is the best container.

Edited June 30, 2009 by sbell111

19k · June 30, 2009

Just ONCE, I would LOVE to see a thread where all the replies were "Yeah, that's a good idea!" "I agree", etc. I mean, debate is a fine thing, but not everything has to be debated to death (as I'm sure that statement will!)

22k · June 30, 2009

Just ONCE, I would LOVE to see a thread where all the replies were "Yeah, that's a good idea!" "I agree", etc. I mean, debate is a fine thing, but not everything has to be debated to death (as I'm sure that statement will!)

I agree.

38.2k · June 30, 2009

My thinking here,, Glass is used to contain many items we use daily. Grocery and department store shelves are full of them, all of which have gone through manufacturing, shipping, stocking, buying and then taken home for use by us consumers. It seems to me that if they are as fragile as you think, that they couldn't survive all that they go through.

Remember that glass jars are shipped in specially designed containers to reduce breakage. And having worked in a supermarket I can assure you that thre is a lot of breakage, despite the special packaging.

38.2k · June 30, 2009

My thinking here,, Glass is used to contain many items we use daily. Grocery and department store shelves are full of them, all of which have gone through manufacturing, shipping, stocking, buying and then taken home for use by us consumers. It seems to me that if they are as fragile as you think, that they couldn't survive all that they go through.

Remember that glass jars are shipped in specially designed containers to reduce breakage. And having worked in a supermarket I can assure you that thre is a lot of breakage, despite the special packaging.

4.5k · June 30, 2009

My thinking here,, Glass is used to contain many items we use daily. Grocery and department store shelves are full of them, all of which have gone through manufacturing, shipping, stocking, buying and then taken home for use by us consumers. It seems to me that if they are as fragile as you think, that they couldn't survive all that they go through.

Remember that glass jars are shipped in specially designed containers to reduce breakage. And having worked in a supermarket I can assure you that thre is a lot of breakage, despite the special packaging.

This is certainly a coincidence but true all the same. I just went to the local wallyworld store and bought a package of plastic storage containers with screw on lids to freeze some of the excess tomatoes that we have grown this year. I got home and started washing them and found the last one to have a cracked lid. Needless to say, they all went back.

I'm just saying that almost all containers can fail. Of course safety is of concern for most of us so i can see the point trying to be made by others in this thread. It still boils down to where and how a container is used. In our Knupple cache mentioned above, the hiding place is in the woods, inside a standing hollow tree. The mug type jar that i used fit perfectly and the handle pointing out makes retieval a cinch. We've never had a problem with it and don't expect to.

4.2k · June 30, 2009

The post office probably won't let you ship in a plastic tupperware container either.

Minor point- if you tape it shut they certainly will. I've shipped Ebay items to aution winners in toilet paper tubes that were taped shut on both ends, folded pieces of carboard that were taped shut, and even disposable plastic containers that were sealed shut. The lady behind the counter even remarked that it would make it through customs faster because they could see the contents (Lego bricks).

4.2k · June 30, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Ah, the old Yawn Defense. I see you have studied under the Masters.
Whatever.

My point was made in the first two sentences (and previous posts). As a bonus, I don't need a defense.

I see your "whatever" and raise you one rolleyes emote:

24.7k · June 30, 2009

Lock n locks are terrible containers in the desert. Extremes of temperature and UV exposure rot away the tops in a year or so. The bottoms generally hold out a little longer, so what you end up with is a tub of slime after the rainy season.

Extreme temperatures? You mean like we have in Minnesota? I've never seen a melted lock & lock. I have seen a couple of broken ones... they do get brittle in our sub-zero temperatures. But very few are out caching in that weather.

I would assume that UV exposure is rare... are those L&L's placed right in the open, without any UV protection?

Environmental considations vary by region. I've seen the issue Mule Ears is talking about and I can easily see the problm with the seal on a glass container. Locally I've seen rodents gnaw some containers and not others. Tins here don't work well. They manage to wick water inside and rush shut at the same time even if not exposed directly to rain.

Personally I like my beer in a bottle. I'm sure some others would argue that aluminum is better, but I've exploded more aluminum cans than broken beer bottles. YMMV. Which is what I think this tread comes down too. If you find a perfect use for a glass container like the hamster cache retrieval system. Great. If not use the better container.

20.7k · July 1, 2009

Then I would advise you to never use a glass container as a cache.

Since others disagree with you, they are free to use a glass container for their cache if they find it to be suitable.

<yawn>

Ah, the old Yawn Defense. I see you have studied under the Masters.
Whatever.

My point was made in the first two sentences (and previous posts). As a bonus, I don't need a defense.

I see your "whatever" and raise you one rolleyes emote:

I'll see that and raise:

4.2k · July 1, 2009

I see your "whatever" and raise you one rolleyes emote:

I'll see that and raise:

That's more like it.

I'm taking inspiration from this whole thing to find a great place to hide a glass container. That last place that I looked at the rubber-seal-keep-your-preaches-fresh glass jars only had some really thin looking garbage that just looked like it might explode if you looked at it wrong. I'm trying to find a smallish container with thicker walls and a nice soft hidey hole. I'm also working some ideas to shatter-proof the glass that won't also increase the cost of materials to 5x that of the average ammo can. We'll see how it goes.

July 1, 2009

Lock n locks are terrible containers in the desert. Extremes of temperature and UV exposure rot away the tops in a year or so. The bottoms generally hold out a little longer, so what you end up with is a tub of slime after the rainy season.

Extreme temperatures? You mean like we have in Minnesota? I've never seen a melted lock & lock. I have seen a couple of broken ones... they do get brittle in our sub-zero temperatures. But very few are out caching in that weather.

I would assume that UV exposure is rare... are those L&L's placed right in the open, without any UV protection?

Environmental considations vary by region. I've seen the issue Mule Ears is talking about and I can easily see the problm with the seal on a glass container. Locally I've seen rodents gnaw some containers and not others. Tins here don't work well. They manage to wick water inside and rush shut at the same time even if not exposed directly to rain.

Personally I like my beer in a bottle. I'm sure some others would argue that aluminum is better, but I've exploded more aluminum cans than broken beer bottles. YMMV. Which is what I think this tread comes down too. If you find a perfect use for a glass container like the hamster cache retrieval system. Great. If not use the better container.

Here's what I've found via a little research: Lock&Locks are made with polypropylene, whose usable temperature range is -25° to +140° C, with the caveat that below 0° C it must be handled with care to avoid cracking. Main enemy of polypropylene is UV degradation. Polypro items intended for outdoor use can be treated with chemical stabilizers that act like sunscreen, converting the UV to IR.

Weather testing of plastics is done by an accelerated-aging process in which the materials are subjected to a lifetime's worth of UV radiation and other conditions (e.g., temperature cycling) in a short period of time. One way to do this is to mount the test sample on a turntable that tracks the sun, so that it receives maximum solar radiation all day long (like tourists adjusting their deck chairs to catch maximal rays).

Here's the funny part: One of the preferred places to perform accelerated weathering tests of plastics is the Arizona desert. Our consistently high UV index not only makes us second in the world for incidence of skin cancer (beaten by Australia, dang!), but eats plastics for lunch. (You can click through relative UV stats in map format by month here--AZ is consistently on top, except during our too-brief rainy season.)

But, but, those Lock&Lock caches are totally shielded from the sun by unnatural piles of rocks and sticks! Regardless of the irradiated Hell outside, those caches are snug and safe as though they were in dark cupboards as their designers intended, right? Maybe. There's no quality control on the way caches are rehidden. The lucky caches escape sunburn; the rest photodegrade and bust.

Though I have not found specific information to support these additional thoughts, there are two other characteristics of AZ desert hides that are hostile to plastic containers: Large diurnal temperature variations, and the tendency of cachers to pile heavy rocks directly on caches. Day/night temperature swings of 40°F are normal here in the dry season; wider swings fairly common. A plastic cache container softens in the heat and stiffens in the cold, all the while supporting a 30-pound rock helpfully piled onto it by the previous finder. Eventually, during the nighttime cold, the embattled and embrittled Lock&Lock loses its struggle and collapses. Finis.

So, now I not only know that Lock&Locks aren't particularly good in our climate--having seen many sorry examples in the field--I also have a pretty good idea why these tragedies occur.

1.1k · July 1, 2009

Very interesting information Mule Ears. Thanks for looking that up.

4.2k · July 1, 2009

Here's what I've found via a little research:

<snip> STUFF </snip>

That was pretty interesting. I've got a couple of honest questions:

Have you seen any temperature related problems with rubber seals on typical glass containers?

Have you seen any problems with ammo cans due to the climate in your area?

Does the extreme heat ever cause problems with glass containers? (Glass gets hot all day, sudden rain fall cools it off...)

Have you ever seen the habit of (re)covering a glass container with nearby heavy rocks?

(I'm not asking these to make any point, I'm just curious as to your experience in the field.)

July 1, 2009

(1) Have you seen any temperature related problems with rubber seals on typical glass containers?

Yes. As I mentioned previously, the gaskets, not the glass, turned out to be the primary Achilles heel of the heavy glass jars I used. I originally had six jar-caches. One was destroyed by wildfire and one by a careless finder who dumped a heavy rock onto the cache (instead of using the hollowed log of the original hide); the remaining four developed leaky gaskets. Not sure whether the problem was temperature, UV, or just aging of the soft gasket material (which was obviously intended for indoor use). I anticipated UV and enclosed my jars in simple cloth bags made out of old pants legs, but it didn't prevent gasket-rot.

(2) Have you seen any problems with ammo cans due to the climate in your area?

Nope. Ammo cans do very well in our area. For a regular-to-large hide, they are just the ticket.

(3) Does the extreme heat ever cause problems with glass containers? (Glass gets hot all day, sudden rain fall cools it off...)

Not that I've seen. If that were a common failure mode, I would think that you'd see more spontaneous destruction of glass litter (e.g., beer bottles), but I don't really have any evidence one way or the other.

(4) Have you ever seen the habit of (re)covering a glass container with nearby heavy rocks?

Yup--see (1) above.

My experiment with glass containers was a failure. If I were to try again, I'd do some homework to find a durable, UV-stable gasket material. For certain kinds of hides, like the example I gave of hollow trees/stumps, a 0.5- or 1-liter latch-top jar would be ideal.

19k · July 2, 2009

Very interesting information Mule Ears. Thanks for looking that up.

Agreed. Ditto. Thanks! Good stuff.

July 2, 2009

I'm trying to find a smallish container with thicker walls and a nice soft hidey hole. I'm also working some ideas to shatter-proof the glass that won't also increase the cost of materials to 5x that of the average ammo can. We'll see how it goes.

I've only seen a few glass containers. One that comes to mind was in New York City. It was a micro container sort of like the tiny jars contact lenses come in. It was capped with a rubber topper. It was placed up a stop sign, ironically enough. I kind of wondered at the time how long that container would last, but it might serve as an example of glass container with thickish, sturdy (relative to its size) walls.

July 2, 2009

Just ONCE, I would LOVE to see a thread where all the replies were "Yeah, that's a good idea!" "I agree", etc. I mean, debate is a fine thing, but not everything has to be debated to death (as I'm sure that statement will!)

Check my thread on the Historical Attribute. K thnx.

Sorry I dont sit in wait for forum posts as i'm busy getting fresh air and silly things like that. So i missed a page or two of your rhetoric. But i would like to clear a couple things up.

First in true, forum fashion you have taken my words and run away with them, go back and read- I never called YOU a troll. You are clearly the one that has the issue here, my lord you started a new thread just to blast me for daring to say something in another thread, where it appeared to me you were threatening someones cache. Or whatever the issue was, its so distorted by now. I understand

now your one of the good guys, I apologize.

Also i wasn't saying that I was the geo-mafia, rather that more then once i've been told people have been retaliated against by "the geo-mafia" when their hides were basically destroyed or messed with later on.

I have no issues with you, I appreciate your opinion as well as anyone else that take the time to post here.

I even agreed GLASS IS BAD MMMKAY. Hopefully someone new will see this ridiculous thread and think twice before using it.

And to the person who said i didnt mention if they traded up, let me tell you a story. First, yes they left a pencil or something and took an Entire bag of sealed twice rawhide dogtreats... my bad thats a fair trade right? Ok on to the story. We placed a cache at a family oriented spot a few months ago, and LOADED it with stuff for kids. It was a giant coffee container and when i say it was stuffed, not another thing could fit into it. The cache has camo that needs to be maintained, so i went there today and archived it for a day or two. Well speaking of people trading up guess what i found inside my cache? A silver coin from a supermarket, a soaping wet CD of kids songs, and two other pieces of plastic non-sense no one would do anything but throw away. Yes EVERYONE trades up.

Edited July 2, 2009 by BareFeat

19k · July 2, 2009

Just ONCE, I would LOVE to see a thread where all the replies were "Yeah, that's a good idea!" "I agree", etc. I mean, debate is a fine thing, but not everything has to be debated to death (as I'm sure that statement will!)

Check my thread on the Historical Attribute. K thnx.

Sorry I dont sit in wait for forum posts as i'm busy getting fresh air and silly things like that. So i missed a page or two of your rhetoric. But i would like to clear a couple things up.

First in true, forum fashion you have taken my words and run away with them, go back and read- I never called YOU a troll. You are clearly the one that has the issue here, my lord you started a new thread just to blast me for daring to say something in another thread, where it appeared to me you were threatening someones cache. Or whatever the issue was, its so distorted by now. I understand

now your one of the good guys, I apologize.

Also i wasn't saying that I was the geo-mafia, rather that more then once i've been told people have been retaliated against by "the geo-mafia" when their hides were basically destroyed or messed with later on.

I have no issues with you, I appreciate your opinion as well as anyone else that take the time to post here.

I even agreed GLASS IS BAD MMMKAY. Hopefully someone new will see this ridiculous thread and think twice before using it.

Wow!! I have NO idea what you are talking about. I certainly was not targeting you, nor anyone else in particular with my statement. I'm sorry if you felt targeted, but that was far from what I intended. I was simply speaking of a frequent attitude of forum regulars.

July 2, 2009

LOL

... uhh wow i been doing some reading. Yea those "regulars" they sure are crazy.

Some of them seem to argue almost any topic that they come upon.

Happy 4th!

19k · July 2, 2009

LOL

... uhh wow i been doing some reading. Yea those "regulars" they sure are crazy.

Some of them seem to argue almost any topic that they come upon.

Happy 4th!

Unfortunately, it seems as though I'm becoming a "regular" here, too. Pray for me.

3.3k · July 2, 2009

LOL

... uhh wow i been doing some reading. Yea those "regulars" they sure are crazy.

Some of them seem to argue almost any topic that they come upon.

Happy 4th!

Unfortunately, it seems as though I'm becoming a "regular" here, too. Pray for me.

Hope you don't get Wrastro'd! I have found a few glass containers, some were intact and some were not. I would not choose to use a glass container for a hide.

July 2, 2009

Unfortunately, it seems as though I'm becoming a "regular" here, too. Pray for me.

You're not a regular? I thought you were like the friendly Saint Bernard waiting around to rescue newbies with a casket of good brandy and friendly tail wagging.

So when your paw is better you're just going to bound off taking your brandy with you?

Carolyn

19k · July 2, 2009

LOL

... uhh wow i been doing some reading. Yea those "regulars" they sure are crazy.

Some of them seem to argue almost any topic that they come upon.

Happy 4th!

Unfortunately, it seems as though I'm becoming a "regular" here, too. Pray for me.

Hope you don't get Wrastro'd! I have found a few glass containers, some were intact and some were not. I would not choose to use a glass container for a hide.

I found a glass cache not too long ago that was placed by a cacher that is now an officer (a Very High Officer) of our local gecaching organization. As far as I know, he hasn't archived it or changed the container yet. But he's still one of the coolest cacher guys around. Next time we head out caching together, though, he's getting an earful from me about it.

3.3k · July 2, 2009

Unfortunately, it seems as though I'm becoming a "regular" here, too. Pray for me.

You're not a regular? I thought you were like the friendly Saint Bernard waiting around to rescue newbies with a casket of good brandy and friendly tail wagging.

So when your paw is better you're just going to bound off taking your brandy with you?

Carolyn

Well all the guy who knows Chad has ever done for me is to try to turn me into a verb! I do enjoy his postings most of the time though. I like Brandy.

4.8k · July 2, 2009

Well all the guy who knows Chad has ever done for me is to try to turn me into a verb! I do enjoy his postings most of the time though. I like Brandy.

If you like being corrected and challenged, chads buddy is great to have around.

3.3k · July 2, 2009

Well all the guy who knows Chad has ever done for me is to try to turn me into a verb! I do enjoy his postings most of the time though. I like Brandy.

If you like being corrected and challenged, chads buddy is great to have around.

Biting lip. Ouch, much pain.

19k · July 2, 2009

Well all the guy who knows Chad has ever done for me is to try to turn me into a verb! I do enjoy his postings most of the time though. I like Brandy.

If you like being corrected and challenged, chads buddy is great to have around.

Uh, I see it the other way around, my friend, as, I suspect, do most observers, but in any case, I'm glad you enjoy the imagined challenges and corrections I provide.

Carolyn, I'm glad to be here as your night in grayish armor. Sorry, but as a single guy, I wash my white armor in the same load as my colored stuff. It all comes out kind of a muddy gray.

19k · July 2, 2009

Well all the guy who knows Chad has ever done for me is to try to turn me into a verb! I do enjoy his postings most of the time though. I like Brandy.

If you like being corrected and challenged, chads buddy is great to have around.

Biting lip. Ouch, much pain.

3.2k · July 2, 2009

I thought that it would be fun to do a little digging into the archives:

The earliest mention of glass containers here that I can find:

A full thread from 2004 on glass containers. Apparently it wasn't mentioned in the guidelines back then.

and another

Now, I'm off to check the forum archives for "Geo-mafia"

Then there's the old stock photo used on the GC.com home page a few years back of a kid holding a glass gallon jar cache. Certainly looked like an endorsement at the time.

4.8k · July 2, 2009

If you like being corrected and challenged, chads buddy is great to have around.

Uh, I see it the other way around, my friend, as, I suspect, do most observers, but in any case, I'm glad you enjoy the imagined challenges and corrections I provide.

Carolyn, I'm glad to be here as your night in grayish armor. Sorry, but as a single guy, I wash my white armor in the same load as my colored stuff. It all comes out kind of a muddy gray.

I think most don't "get" my sense of humor. It's rather Arizona dryish. It takes a lot of intelligence to properly understand me.

Biting lip. Ouch, much pain.

Hey, if thats what you are into, who am I to judge...

Edited July 2, 2009 by bittsen

3.3k · July 2, 2009

If you like being corrected and challenged, chads buddy is great to have around.

Uh, I see it the other way around, my friend, as, I suspect, do most observers, but in any case, I'm glad you enjoy the imagined challenges and corrections I provide.

Carolyn, I'm glad to be here as your night in grayish armor. Sorry, but as a single guy, I wash my white armor in the same load as my colored stuff. It all comes out kind of a muddy gray.

I think most don't "get" my sense of humor. It's rather Arizona dryish. It takes a lot of intelligence to properly understand me.

Biting lip. Ouch, much pain.

Hey, if that's what you are into, who am I to judge...

Ahh, good plan. Insult folks who might be trying to subtly trying to let you know you go just a bit overboard. More lip biting. Ouch, more pain. No need for much intelligence to understand most of your posts. Dang, couldn't hold back. Sorry. Appreciate your contributions but you simply are not the sole source of knowledge and wisdom in these parts.

4.8k · July 2, 2009

Hey, if that's what you are into, who am I to judge...

Ahh, good plan. Insult folks who might be trying to subtly trying to let you know you go just a bit overboard. More lip biting. Ouch, more pain. No need for much intelligence to understand most of your posts. Dang, couldn't hold back. Sorry. Appreciate your contributions but you simply are not the sole source of knowledge and wisdom in these parts.

Seriously? You couldn't see the humor in my reply?

Do I need to add a ~LOL~ each time? Or should I put in the overused smileys to let you know it was a coy innuendo?

I will just use this one a lot OK?

~sits back and wonders when people stopped living life with levity~

Glass Containers

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