Help making dubloons. Ideas?

4k · June 26, 2009

We are in the early stages of planning a Pirate Black Knight's Treasure cache. It will be a mystery/multi. It will have authentic looking treasure maps, our own pirate flag, our own emblem, and gold dubloons. The plan is to use these items to decipher the treasure map. (I'd actually like more items, but I need to think more. Ideas welcome.) *

My plan is to make the dubloons with lead. I get it at the berm at my shooting range. It is easy to melt and pour. Soft enough to imprint. I was hoping to figure out a way to make a stamp or sorts to imprint on the lead. It could be done when the lead is soft. It's soft anyway... I also have small stamps where I could stamp a message or coordinates into our Knight dubloon. I will paint them gold.

The dubloons were not intended to be in the final. Just a clue. I hope to have it where you need to travel around town. Not far though. Small town. Just a few dubloons will lead you to the real booty!

I know some of you are smart cookies. Any ideas?

*Another idea is like what Michael J Fox did at the end of the movie "For love or money". Hold the map up to something while you look to get a clue. Just an idea though...

Edited June 26, 2009 by Knight2000

4.8k · June 26, 2009

We are in the early stages of planning a Pirate Black Knight's Treasure cache. It will be a mystery/multi. It will have authentic looking treasure maps, our own pirate flag, our own emblem, and gold dubloons. The plan is to use these items to decipher the treasure map. (I'd actually like more items, but I need to think more. Ideas welcome.) *

My plan is to make the dubloons with lead. I get it at the berm at my shooting range. It is easy to melt and pour. Soft enough to imprint. I was hoping to figure out a way to make a stamp or sorts to imprint on the lead. It could be done when the lead is soft. It's soft anyway... I also have small stamps where I could stamp a message or coordinates into our Knight dubloon. I will paint them gold.

The dubloons were not intended to be in the final. Just a clue. I hope to have it where you need to travel around town. Not far though. Small town. Just a few dubloons will lead you to the real booty!

I know some of you are smart cookies. Any ideas?

*Another idea is like what Michael J Fox did at the end of the movie "For love or money". Hold the map up to something while you look to get a clue. Just an idea though...

Lead, toxic, bad idea. Kids find treasure of lead, bad idea...

Treasure gets dropped, environment gets lead, bad idea.

Brass, better idea

20.7k · June 26, 2009

A forum search on 'polymer clay' or a google search on 'alumilite' might be just the ticket.

Also, several years ago, someone (MountainMudbug???) posted a tutorial on making geocoins out of polymer clay. If a forum search doesn't turn that up, a google search might.

4k · June 26, 2009

They will be sealed. I can put a warning in the cache. There is a geocoin made of lead and I don't think anyone has died. There is so much lead in the ground that if someone drops a few dubloons it won't make that much of a difference. Lead has the weight i need. If it was a cheap light piece of plastic I wouldn't bother with it. It has to seem somewhat real.

June 26, 2009

We have a puzzle cache in our area that uses "gold bars" as part of the puzzle in one of the stages. They took dominoes and spray-painted them gold - the "numbers" on the back are still there and figure into the puzzle as coordinates, once you figure out how to put everything in order. May be a cheaper route and less work than modeling something, and you have the numbers built in, if you can make do with the numbers on dominoes -- of course, using a Double-15 set will allow you access to MUCH higher numbers!

7.7k · June 26, 2009

They will be sealed. I can put a warning in the cache. There is a geocoin made of lead and I don't think anyone has died. There is so much lead in the ground that if someone drops a few dubloons it won't make that much of a difference. Lead has the weight I need. If it was a cheap light piece of plastic I wouldn't bother with it. It has to seem somewhat real.

Doesn't it take a while for lead poisoning to take effect (being shot by a lead bullet doesn't count)? Anyway, I'd be more worried about your exposure to lead than any finders or damage to the environment. I like sbell111's idea better. If it is not heavy enough, try embedding a metal disc (e.g. washer) in the middle.

If you want to duplicate gold's density, looks like your best bets are either using gold (let me know where you intend to place this) or (in increasing density) uranium, tungsten, plutonium, platinum, iridium, osmium. Tungsten is almost as dense as gold, and plutonium is more dense. Maybe the lead will come in handy after all...

I've no experience with casting lead free pewter, but it sounds like another possibility.

4k · June 26, 2009

Doesn't it take a while for lead poisoning to take effect (being shot by a lead bullet doesn't count)? Anyway, I'd be more worried about your exposure to lead than any finders or damage to the environment. I like sbell111's idea better. If it is not heavy enough, try embedding a metal disc (e.g. washer) in the middle.

I reload my own ammunition and handle lead bullets when i do so. If you take the proper precautions you are safe.

A kind cacher contacted me and said they could/would make me a stamp if I sent my design to them. Great! Now if I can just figure out my idea...

What started this was my daughter picked up a heavy gold coin out of a cache. Irregular and about the size of a quarter. It was pretty cool. I wonder if they made it.

June 26, 2009

Sounds like a very cool idea, but the lead sounds kinda sketchy to me too (sorry!). You sound comfortable handling it, but others may not be. The embedded washer idea sounds promising. Or, you could consider checking out a site like etsy.com and posting a request to have these handmade by a metalsmith. They'd probably be able to give you ideas for something that's both heavy and safe.

1.6k · June 26, 2009

Handling large chunks of lead, such as a coin or bullet, isn't very dangerous. Especially if the coin is sealed and painted gold. Tons of everyday items are made of unprotected lead: bullets, fishing sinkers/weights, car wheel balancing weights, etc.

The problems from lead come from ingesting it, which requires that it be small enough to ingest. The most likely source of ingested lead is from peeling paint chips from old houses or cheap toys from China. Or from accidentally swallowing a fishing sinker while using your teeth to close it on the line. Or breathing lead dust.

Incidentally, since you mentioned a shooting range, I hope you wear a dust mask while digging the bullets out of the ground. When a bullet strikes a metal target, part of it is pulverized and sprays lead dust all over the area. After years of this the ground surface around the berm is composed of mostly lead. So as you're digging around in the "dirt" you're stirring up lead dust which you then breath in. If you don't believe me, scoop up a handful of "dust" from in front of the target area and compare the density/weight to a similar handful from behind the benches.

Back on topic, I think this is a perfectly good idea, and I'd love to find one of your dubloons.

1.1k · June 26, 2009

Handling large chunks of lead, such as a coin or bullet, isn't very dangerous. Especially if the coin is sealed and painted gold. Tons of everyday items are made of unprotected lead: bullets, fishing sinkers/weights, car wheel balancing weights, etc.

I wanted to say the same thing. Skin absorption of metallic lead is negligible. (source)

Would need to be careful with the young ones however - keep them from chewing on them.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Arrow42

7.7k · June 26, 2009

Handling large chunks of lead, such as a coin or bullet, isn't very dangerous.

What about melting and casting them? How much of it escapes into the air, and how dangerous is it? I really do not know, I'm asking for information.

Actually, come to think of it, I guess it can't be that bad. Millions of electronics hobbyists used to solder with non lead-free solder without dying in droves.

What started this was my daughter picked up a heavy gold coin out of a cache. Irregular and about the size of a quarter. It was pretty cool. I wonder if they made it.

If you want doubloons as swag in the final, you can buy them online, about 50 cents per piece. eBay or just google for "replica doubloon". The ebay ones are a mixture of finish.

1.1k · June 26, 2009

Handling large chunks of lead, such as a coin or bullet, isn't very dangerous.

What about melting and casting them? How much of it escapes into the air, and how dangerous is it? I really do not know, I'm asking for information.

Actually, come to think of it, I guess it can't be that bad. Millions of electronics hobbyists used to solder with non lead-free solder without dying in droves.

Good question - I would expect that very little vaporizes at melting temperature, but I just don't know for sure.

6.7k · June 26, 2009

Wen I us a kid we melteded weel wiats on ma's stoav ta maik fishun sinckerz an I terned out ok.

4k · June 26, 2009

Wen I us a kid we melteded weel wiats on ma's stoav ta maik fishun sinckerz an I terned out ok.

Ha!

Actually I haven't harvested lead yet. My kids like to pick up bullets at the shooting range after we are done shooting. They grab a handful and are done. I did intend to start but currently i get my bullets so cheap that I haven't bothered casting.

To melt all you need is a pot and a heat source. A ladle is nice too. Easy peazy. I would not do it inside as I do not have adequate ventilation. I have melted some bullets just to try it. I didn't eat any or sniff

I wasn't planning on using them as swag but I was thinking that a finder would have to take one in order to continue to the next stage and use it in conjunction with the map somehow. I just need to brainstorm I guess to figure out a fun cache. The world needs more of those!

7.7k · June 26, 2009

I wasn't planning on using them as swag but I was thinking that a finder would have to take one in order to continue to the next stage and use it in conjunction with the map somehow. I just need to brainstorm I guess to figure out a fun cache. The world needs more of those!

Not sure how you intend to do this, but you can have one lead (or whatever) version in the cache, and a number of cardboard copies that people can take with them to the next stage.

June 27, 2009

what about brass or aluminum. My little guy calls caching "treasure hunts". jks

7.7k · June 27, 2009

what about brass or aluminum. My little guy calls caching "treasure hunts". jks

Not familiar with brass, but found out earlier today that aluminum has higher melting point than lead (in an article suggesting melting lead in aluminum pots).

1.5k · June 27, 2009

I'm not sure about stamping numbers or clues on these, but it seems to me that the price is right and a heck of a lot easier than trying to cast your own if they would work.

Dubloons

1.4k · June 27, 2009

Pewter is a much better metal for this. Heavy like gold, melts and stamps easily and isn't hazardous. Most thrift stores have pewter mugs or candlesticks for pretty cheap.

4.8k · June 27, 2009

I never stop looking for pirate booty

June 27, 2009

This came to mind:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pirate_Tre...m_Trash_Really/

All you need is cardboard, glue, and aluminum tape/tinfoil.

Edit: I only read the title when I posted this (It's 1:00, I don't plan to be on the computer much longer). I guess that's not what you're looking for.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Spl1nt3rC3ll

20.7k · June 27, 2009

This came to mind:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pirate_Tre...m_Trash_Really/

All you need is cardboard, glue, and aluminum tape/tinfoil.

Those are pretty cool.

June 28, 2009

Using lead to be handled by kids is a bad idea. I hope you chose another option.

Even kids game consoles use lead free solder now. And there in a plastic an metal case and cannot be accessed from the outside without special tools.

Bad bad idea.

June 28, 2009

I understand the desire to use a free material. Still you may want to look into lead free pewter that is used in casting minitures. Availible several places on the web from hobby supplyers.

Go with the pirate cache. Can never get enough pirate stuff.

June 29, 2009

Does anyone remember all those toys full of lead growing up, and what about the toothpaste tubes made of lead? 5 seconds of exposure to lead will not harm anyone.

4k · June 29, 2009

I'm not sure about stamping numbers or clues on these, but it seems to me that the price is right and a heck of a lot easier than trying to cast your own if they would work.

Dubloons

It's not as hard as you think. Throw a few handfuls of bullets in the pan on a hot plate and it will melt in no time at all. Skim the crap off of the top and use a ladle to poor a few scoops into a mold. (That can be made of all sorts of stuff easily. You want it irregular.) Stamp it. Super easy.

If I didn't tell you that it was lead, you probably wouldn't have known. You just would have thought, "Hey! Another Knight2000 cache!"

20.7k · June 29, 2009

Does anyone remember all those toys full of lead growing up, and what about the toothpaste tubes made of lead? 5 seconds of exposure to lead will not harm anyone.

Does anyone remember why toys are no longer full of lead and why toothpaste tubes are not made of lead?

Why risk any problems when safe alternatives are readily available?

Edited June 29, 2009 by sbell111

June 30, 2009

I say go for it. A couple layers of primer/paint and nobody will be in contact with the lead anyways.

While lead is toxic to some extent, it isnt the radioactive nightmare that some are making it out to be.

June 30, 2009

As others have said, lead isnt the killer metal it is hyped up to be.

But, just to keep anyone from freaking out on your lead coins, it will be better to use pewter instead. As Team Shiney already said it is cheap and readily available. and if you really want to get carried away, electroplate them with real gold!

June 30, 2009

How many dubloons are you needing???

like 5 or 10 or like a few hundred???

If you only need a few why re-invent the wheel...

http://store.nwtmint.com/product_details/1...irate_Dubloons/

These are about as real looking as your going to get...

Also there are several other places on the net that offer reproduction/replica dubloons....

14k · July 1, 2009

Using lead to be handled by kids is a bad idea. I hope you chose another option.

Even kids game consoles use lead free solder now. And there in a plastic an metal case and cannot be accessed from the outside without special tools.

Bad bad idea.

I know for a fact that game consoles didn't always use lead free solder, even in places that are user accessible. In the summer of 1975 I worked at Atari soldering battery clips into their first edition of the home version Pong games.

July 1, 2009

Using lead to be handled by kids is a bad idea. I hope you chose another option.

Even kids game consoles use lead free solder now. And there in a plastic an metal case and cannot be accessed from the outside without special tools.

Bad bad idea.

I know for a fact that game consoles didn't always use lead free solder, even in places that are user accessible. In the summer of 1975 I worked at Atari soldering battery clips into their first edition of the home version Pong games.

This is 2009, not 1975. - We now have a better understanding of the world today.

20.7k · July 1, 2009

Edited July 1, 2009 by sbell111

4k · July 1, 2009

How many dubloons are you needing???

like 5 or 10 or like a few hundred???

If you only need a few why re-invent the wheel...

http://store.nwtmint.com/product_details/1...irate_Dubloons/

These are about as real looking as your going to get...

Also there are several other places on the net that offer reproduction/replica dubloons....

I won't need a lot. (1 per cacher?) I was thinking that a cacher would take one to use for their puzzles. Even if I only needed one at $10 a pop you know it wouldn't be long until that dubloon was missing.

24.7k · July 2, 2009

....What about melting and casting them? How much of it escapes into the air, and how dangerous is it? I really do not know, I'm asking for information.....

It's why they have lead free pewter these days.

So assuming Knight is going to want these coins to be remotely durable. Pewter is the better choice as it's still easy to melt, but less ductile. Which means it could take the abuse of being carried around.

Now if you have an X marks the spot on the map, and two notches or marks in the coin with symbols (like the golden arches) on the coin to say where to line up the notches so an arrow can point at the cache location....

24.7k · July 2, 2009

As others have said, lead isnt the killer metal it is hyped up to be.

But, just to keep anyone from freaking out on your lead coins, it will be better to use pewter instead. As Team Shiney already said it is cheap and readily available. and if you really want to get carried away, electroplate them with real gold!

I like that electroplating idea. Easy enough to do. A little gold would go a long way.

7.7k · July 2, 2009

I won't need a lot. (1 per cacher?) I was thinking that a cacher would take one to use for their puzzles. Even if I only needed one at $10 a pop you know it wouldn't be long until that dubloon was missing.

http://www.greatamericancoincompany.com/c5...ntity-p184.html

Slightly more than 50 cents per. But you need to get at least 50.

They sell on eBay too. But the ones on eBay are mixed shiny and antique finish.

Anyway, sounds like you want something custom, so this doesn't apply. But if you like, send me an e-mail and I'll mail one over to you so you can take a look. Maybe in exchange for one of your signature poker chips?

Disclaimer : I have nothing to do with the company except that I bought some through eBay - which is how I know about the "antique finish".

4k · July 2, 2009

Now if you have an X marks the spot on the map, and two notches or marks in the coin with symbols (like the golden arches) on the coin to say where to line up the notches so an arrow can point at the cache location....

Interesting! Now if I can just picture what exactly you are saying. I like the idea though.

7.7k · July 2, 2009

Now if you have an X marks the spot on the map, and two notches or marks in the coin with symbols (like the golden arches) on the coin to say where to line up the notches so an arrow can point at the cache location....

Interesting! Now if I can just picture what exactly you are saying. I like the idea though.

Would you guys mind terribly if I borrow this idea? I'll give credit, of course.

Edit : credit to the two knights

Edited July 2, 2009 by Chrysalides

4k · July 2, 2009

Would you guys mind terribly if I borrow this idea? I'll give credit, of course.

Edit : credit to the two knights

I would never! (mind of course!)

We have multiple different out of the box caches. Most are from imitating other caches. I am sure that there are other caches like my idea. It can't be an orginal. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Hide something fun to find.

For the map I was going to use some sort of light brown paper. Print and them crumple it up over and over and over. Burn the edges with a flame and a few flame spots here or there. Roll them and tie them with a ribbon of some sort. I wonder if blood drops would add a touch? Too much?

Still in very early planning stages. Maybe start out with a cache that has a page of different pirate flags and coordinates. Take the printout to X location to find out which flag is the pirate Knight's flag and continue? Maybe not exciting enough. Maybe find somewhere to fly a real Dread Knight's flag! Yeah right...

I love the idea of using the coin with notches. Maybe even holes of some sort! Maybe I need to watch The Goonies as research! B-b-b-bullet holes!

7.7k · July 2, 2009

Thanks for sharing

The cache with the most elaborate prop I've found so far over here is this one:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...0a-8bee99985306

You have to find 6 other caches before this one, each containing some of the instructions, and location to the parts that you need to use to assemble the pyramid, which will then point to the actual location.

Unrelated to making doubloons, but since we've deviated into props for puzzles...

July 2, 2009

If you'll settle for plastic, Michael's (arts and crafts store) is selling bags of 50 plastic gold coins for a buck. You'll find them in the birthday party supplies. You could buy hundreds for less than the cost of a burger.

ps I saw them there today, although I can't find them on their web site.

July 2, 2009

Make your coin in sculpy clay. Get it just the way you want it. Then bake to harden and use this as your model to make molds in casting sand.Will make one sided coins easily.

4k · July 2, 2009

It would be more effort to make them out of sculpey. It is incredibly easy to cast. All i need is a form, which I think I could make from *dried* mud. I don't want to have to drive to a store that smells like flowers and crap.

July 6, 2009

I'm looking at making my own coins out of cast zinc. It has a similar melting point to lead, casts just as easy, but isn't as dense. I made some "coins" with his logo on them a while back using a mold I machined out of aluminum.

You can also use plaster of paris as a mold for zinc, but I don't know if it will work for multiple casts or not. google rubber plaster molding for more info.

If you choose to use zinc, you may want to dedicate a pot to it so you don't contaminate your bullets. Not sure what effect it would have on it.

Vince

August 14, 2009

Made a few out of zinc. First results weren't great, need to get the mold hotter. I left the back open so it kinda looks like a muffin top. Plan to place these in caches this weekend.

Vince

Help making dubloons. Ideas?

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