Convince me to buy a PN-40, or wait for the next iteration

[+curt&jen]

Might seem like a weird thread title, but hopefully it'll make some sense. There are more sticky threads than I have time to read, but I've read a great deal here and on the DeLorme forums about this unit. I'd like to cut through and ask some questions even though they may have been answered already.

 

For the past few days I've been researching the PN-40, and it's fair to say I'm in love with everything this unit is supposed to be. Paperless caching and on-screen aerials are among my favorite features. I dig the size and price, as well as the dual-core processor and generous storage space. All of the above was not available four years ago when I bought my first unit, an eTrex Legend. This is why I want to own a PN-40....why I want it not to suck

 

All I'm looking for here is some practical testimonials from users who go out geocaching and logging routes and tracks with their PN-40. I'm familiar with several cronic issues that seem to be affecting a fair number of these units. My gut tells me to wait for future versions with fixes for the bugs, but this unit is so stinking cool, I'm willing to overlook some issues, or heck even take a gamble that mine won't have them.....IF AND ONLY IF there are more folks out there having positive experiences with the following:

 

1. Battery life - multiple threads tell stories of horrible battery life, like 1/2 hour to 1 hour with NiMH batteries. That's totally a dealbreaker. I can't be carrying around 16 AA's for a day of caching or hiking.

 

2. Lock drops - this one seems to be all over the place. Some people report no problems, others say they can't get a lock for anything. Again, I've seen both said with 2.5 firmware.

 

3. WAAS being a rare delicacy - same qualifier as #2. I've seen this said of 2.5 firmware.

 

4. Slow redraws when more than 2GB of data is stored.

 

Those are the negatives. Now some questions of my own:

 

5. I see that DeLorme has released an ESRI extension for $250. I use ESRI software 50 hours a week for my career, so I was excited to see this article as it would allow me to upload hi-res imagery for my local areas. Then I saw the price tag and was disappointed. My question is, can you use other means to upload spatially referenced imagery to the unit without the means of proprietary software?

 

6. Assuming the answer to #5 is no, can I upload imagery that I've acquired by my own means via XMAP or some other software package? In other words, if I've got imagery acquired freely from a gov agency that is much higher quality than what the $30 per month service offers, how can I get it onto the unit?

 

I appreciate everyone's time in reading this long post. Thanks in advance for any info you can share!

[+user13371]

These are my personal experiences n the areas you asked about. No implicatiomn is made that these are universal issues:

 

1. Battery life: I get around 8 hours on a pair of Sanyo Eneloop rechargeables NiMH. There had been a few users reporting really terrible results but a common thread these seems to be using alkalines. I don't know any sensible person who would routinely use disposable batteries anyhow.

 

2. Lock drops: Yes, this happens to me quite a lot. Under ideal, non-moving conditions it's the most accurate GPS I've ever had. Hiking it will frequently lose the 3D fix, and somewhat less often lose its lock completely.

 

3) WAAS: Sometimes get it, sometimes not. I haven't been able to correlate accuracy with WAAS though - whether or not it's being reported, the GPS is awfully precise. So accurate that I question if it really IS applying WAAS corrections and just not reporting that fact accurately on status screens.

 

4) I cannot comment on screen redraws when more than 2GB is one the card. However, even with considerably less than that, I think the screen redraws are noticeably slower on the PN-40 thanon my Garmin eTrex H.

 

I cannot reply on your items 5 and 6 as I do not have enough experience with those specifics.

Edited June 18, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+TotemLake]

Let's set one thing straight, there are a lot of complaints that have been worked out. There are a lot more satisfied users you don't hear from, because, well, if you're happy with your unit, your generally out caching instead of posting.

 

So...

 

1. Battery life - multiple threads tell stories of horrible battery life, like 1/2 hour to 1 hour with NiMH batteries. That's totally a dealbreaker. I can't be carrying around 16 AA's for a day of caching or hiking.

Myth. Depending on the NiMH's you can see much better life than 1 hour. Go here for a great rundown of battery life in the first page of posts.

 

2. Lock drops - this one seems to be all over the place. Some people report no problems, others say they can't get a lock for anything. Again, I've seen both said with 2.5 firmware.

I'm in heavy PNW foliage as well as urban canyons and I never see a lock loss.

 

3. WAAS being a rare delicacy - same qualifier as #2. I've seen this said of 2.5 firmware.

WAAS lock keeps getting better each time I use it. It's actually surprising me for the areas I find myself in.

 

4. Slow redraws when more than 2GB of data is stored.

Myth. The redraws are quick enough with aerials and Hi Res aerials that it can keep up with driving speeds of up to 60MPH. I have 6GB data stored on the internal memory, and carry a 4GB card always half full. The GPS loads only what is needed when it is needed.

 

5. I see that DeLorme has released an ESRI extension for $250. I use ESRI software 50 hours a week for my career, so I was excited to see this article as it would allow me to upload hi-res imagery for my local areas. Then I saw the price tag and was disappointed. My question is, can you use other means to upload spatially referenced imagery to the unit without the means of proprietary software?

Can't answer this one.

 

6. Assuming the answer to #5 is no, can I upload imagery that I've acquired by my own means via XMAP or some other software package? In other words, if I've got imagery acquired freely from a gov agency that is much higher quality than what the $30 per month service offers, how can I get it onto the unit?

You can geo-reference your own imagery with XMap and load it to Topo then export it to the PN. You'll need to check with customer support about file types before you make the investment unless someone more in the know can answer you here.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

PN-40 user since Day 1 and here are my experiences:

 

1. Battery life: I use this one and get 11+ hours per charge (he appears out now but will have some more next week):

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/ALT-EN-LLC

 

2. Lock-ups: What are those?

 

3. WAAS: As Lee notes above: I have WAAS indication for a good portion of ON time. However, it is no big deal as that WAAS indications accompany only a foot or two decrement in EPE. EPE is typically less than 10 feet and conservative. Every time that I calibrate against a known position, measurable error is well within EPE readout.

 

4. Tracking: Miles of recorded track from dashboard while driving without dropouts. Accuracy of tracks is within ±8 ft for 90% of the recorded distance.

 

5. Redraw/refresh rate: While walking towards a cache I do not feel constrained by it as I can't outrun it. While driving, I'm clueless as I don't watch it due to having an OEM GPS/NAV in my dash.

[+coggins]

Now some questions of my own:

 

5. I see that DeLorme has released an ESRI extension for $250. I use ESRI software 50 hours a week for my career, so I was excited to see this article as it would allow me to upload hi-res imagery for my local areas. Then I saw the price tag and was disappointed. My question is, can you use other means to upload spatially referenced imagery to the unit without the means of proprietary software?

 

6. Assuming the answer to #5 is no, can I upload imagery that I've acquired by my own means via XMAP or some other software package? In other words, if I've got imagery acquired freely from a gov agency that is much higher quality than what the $30 per month service offers, how can I get it onto the unit?

 

I appreciate everyone's time in reading this long post. Thanks in advance for any info you can share!

The latest version of xMap Professional (v6.2) will allow you to load vector ESRI shapfiles and GEOTIFF or LizardTech MrSID files. I believe you can get a direct "upgrade" deal of $100. Might be worth looking into vs the ESRI extention. Edited June 18, 2009 by coggins

[+coreynjoey]

PN-40 user since Day 1 and here are my experiences:

 

1. Battery life: I use this one and get 11+ hours per charge (he appears out now but will have some more next week):

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/ALT-EN-LLC

 

2. Lock-ups: What are those?

 

3. WAAS: As Lee notes above: I have WAAS indication for a good portion of ON time. However, it is no big deal as that WAAS indications accompany only a foot or two decrement in EPE. EPE is typically less than 10 feet and conservative. Every time that I calibrate against a known position, measurable error is well within EPE readout.

 

4. Tracking: Miles of recorded track from dashboard while driving without dropouts. Accuracy of tracks is within ±8 ft for 90% of the recorded distance.

 

5. Redraw/refresh rate: While walking towards a cache I do not feel constrained by it as I can't outrun it. While driving, I'm clueless as I don't watch it due to having an OEM GPS/NAV in my dash.

I use the battery pack that the Cowboy pointed you to. They make a big difference! We've been on a few all-day caching sprees and they lasted over 12 hours...that's 12 hours of constant use, never being turned off!

 

I regularly have good WAAS lock. It's normal for my accuracy to read 6ft.

 

My only real complaint with the PN-40 would be the auto-routing. It's not that great compared to other units, but we have an in-car unit, so it's not an issue for us.

 

The paperless features alone I think are worth it! Especially now with the Cache Register widget.

[+Indotguy]

Personally, I'm holding out for the release and reviews of the new Lowrance Endura line.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Anyone crazy enough to buy and keep buying alkaline batteries...well, IF someone does this, they can't blame anyone but themselves. I KNOW a pair of HD (green) Duracell rechargeables will give you 11+ hours of use, but I use the power kit battery and charge it in the car whenever I can. On my kayak, the battery pack will last up to 8 hours of constant useage...I also carry a pair of rechargeables, just in case (but have only used them one time in several all-day cache/kayak runs).

 

I lock on and stay locked on. Not a time I have seen a lock loss that wasn't due to being inside a big building or under a bridge while kayaking (and then, it wasn't like my unit never relocated the lock). When under bridge, I mean as in sitting there while taking a break!

 

WAAS, get it, love it. I OFTEN see reports of +/-5' and rarely bother to even look to see if it says WAAS or not! I would echo Lee's comments here as well.

 

Having tracked every river trip I've taken, I have never seen the broken line tracks Brian posted pictures of...never.

 

Your questions for XMAP have been answered.....I also think the $100 would be worth it for anyone who wants their own maps...but the aerials I get are enough for me!

 

You can sit on the fence and wish all you want, until you actually take the plunge, you'll only be making guesses and assumptions. I knew about the problems going in, I bought before any of the fixes or paperless updates were put in place and I was more than happy to recommend it waaaay back then (lol, months ago). People kept saying they'd wait for the updates like they may never come and I was suggesting a crapshoot. Well, I bet I helped about 10 people make their choice and I have not seen anyone dis-satisfied (unless I count Brian, but I don't think my comments were a deciding factor for him???). I own a PN-40, my friend owns one, their relatives own one, a few Michigan friends now are proud owners as are THEIR relatives....these things sell themselves!

 

I believe truly, the only crapshoot will be if you get a bad unit (QC problem) and I don't even think that's much of a crapshoot since DeLorme is more than happy to make things right! YMMV!

[+user13371]

All them folks who say their PN-40 never loses it's lock -- I guess I'd better figger out what I'm doing wrong with mine or contact DeLorme for service.

 

My wife and I went for a short walk (ten miles up a small mountain (okay, a really BIG hill) ) near our home -- over the weekend and we lost 3D on all of the steeper bits of the climb, and completely lost lock four or five times in a few hours. Sometimes for just a few seconds, once for 6 minutes. I looked at the SV page each time and seemed like we had good geometry and that not many of sats would have been blocked by the hillside -- but the bar graph for mot of the sats dropped to nothing. I've taken this to be normal behaviour from the GPS.

 

One thing I have noticed is my PN-40 seems to do a LOT better if you "prime it" by leaving it powered up in one place with a clear view of the sky for several hours before starting out. It shouldn't take that long (hours?) to get a full almanac download - but the longer I leave it on the back porch any morning before starting out, the better it seems to do on that day.

Edited June 18, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Entropy512]

Might seem like a weird thread title, but hopefully it'll make some sense. There are more sticky threads than I have time to read, but I've read a great deal here and on the DeLorme forums about this unit. I'd like to cut through and ask some questions even though they may have been answered already.

 

For the past few days I've been researching the PN-40, and it's fair to say I'm in love with everything this unit is supposed to be. Paperless caching and on-screen aerials are among my favorite features. I dig the size and price, as well as the dual-core processor and generous storage space. All of the above was not available four years ago when I bought my first unit, an eTrex Legend. This is why I want to own a PN-40....why I want it not to suck

 

All I'm looking for here is some practical testimonials from users who go out geocaching and logging routes and tracks with their PN-40. I'm familiar with several cronic issues that seem to be affecting a fair number of these units. My gut tells me to wait for future versions with fixes for the bugs, but this unit is so stinking cool, I'm willing to overlook some issues, or heck even take a gamble that mine won't have them.....IF AND ONLY IF there are more folks out there having positive experiences with the following:

 

1. Battery life - multiple threads tell stories of horrible battery life, like 1/2 hour to 1 hour with NiMH batteries. That's totally a dealbreaker. I can't be carrying around 16 AA's for a day of caching or hiking.

 

2. Lock drops - this one seems to be all over the place. Some people report no problems, others say they can't get a lock for anything. Again, I've seen both said with 2.5 firmware.

 

3. WAAS being a rare delicacy - same qualifier as #2. I've seen this said of 2.5 firmware.

 

4. Slow redraws when more than 2GB of data is stored.

 

1 - Not typical of a properly manufactured PN-40 unit, but the defect rate on the PN-40 is incredibly high compared to other consumer electronics devices. The problems are described as a "small percentage of customers" but the defect rate is statistically significant and far higher than acceptable. I've seen at least two reports (one Amazon review and one on the sticky DeLorme power issues thread) of people who got two dud units in a row. That should NEVER happen and indicates that the defect rate is incredibly high compared to normal. The fact that all of the problems are centered in the power supply circuit indicate a design flaw, not a manufacturing quality control issue. It's also not a case of a bad batch of power supply parts since the reports have been going on for 6+ months at this time.

 

2) At least in this case, with 2.5 firmware, performance was pretty good, maybe just a little worse than my Oregon.

 

3) Better WAAS performance than my Oregon (same hardware, somewhat improved firmware), but not even remotely close to my MTKv2-based bluetooth puck.

 

4) Slow redraws period. "blazing fast" if you're accustomed to the PN-20 or any version of Street Atlas Handheld, but that's setting the bar *low*.

 

5,6 - Without professional-level dependability (see #1), I am not sure how much these pro features will actually help you. Also, while not officially supported by Garmin, there are third-party tools that may allow ESRI data to be put into the Garmin. (I'm 95% certain this has been done, as all of the free maps at http://www.gpsfiledepot.org/ get their road data from the Cenus TIGER data, which is now in ESRI shapefile format.)

 

I suggest waiting for the PN-40's successor (the 30 appears to be a stripped down 40) or going Garmin.

 

Garmin has announced that future devices will carry the MTKv2 chipset, so you might want to wait and see what happens along these lines if you don't like the PN-40/Oregon receiver performance.

 

Also, XMap 6 Professional is $200, not $100.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Entropy512

[+curt&jen]

Can't thank you guys enough for jumping in with your experiences and opinions. I want to respond to some specifics but first generally speaking....

 

After digesting the feedback in this thread as well as many other historical discussions, I'm pursuaded of two things:

 

1) I think the vision behind this unit has potential to be a game-changer. It's loaded with very nice features and I absolutely would love to own one.

 

2) Right now it seems like potluck for the customer. I believe everything you guys are saying, on both sides. The fact is some folks are swearing by their PN-40 while others wonder what the hype's about. It's not uncommon for a brand new product so I don't see the uncertainty as cause for doubting the makers of this product.

 

Personally I think I can handle this uncertainty. If I order a PN-40, I'll do so with an optimistic attitude, but I'll also be prepared for the delay of sending off for a non-lemon if necessary.

 

This is NOT a jab at DeLorme. I've been using DeLorme products since I was an udergraduate student of geography and GIS. It's the positive reviews some of you guys are giving that tells me this line of units has potential.

[+curt&jen]

 

5,6 - Without professional-level dependability (see #1), I am not sure how much these pro features will actually help you. Also, while not officially supported by Garmin, there are third-party tools that may allow ESRI data to be put into the Garmin. (I'm 95% certain this has been done, as all of the free maps at http://www.gpsfiledepot.org/ get their road data from the Cenus TIGER data, which is now in ESRI shapefile format.)

 

Good point! I know I'll do it anyway though because I'm a GIS geek by trade. Loading higher resolution aerials onto this thing is a big part of why I'm willing to take a gamble. I love working with imagery and taking it into a geocaching session would be awesome to me.

 

I suggest waiting for the PN-40's successor (the 30 appears to be a stripped down 40) or going Garmin.

 

What about the PN-60? Is this just a myth or is there really one in the works? Can't remember where I heard about it though....

 

Garmin has announced that future devices will carry the MTKv2 chipset, so you might want to wait and see what happens along these lines if you don't like the PN-40/Oregon receiver performance.

 

Thanks for saying that, because I forgot to ask about the Oregon 300. I've heard people complain about lock drops and stuff with this unit too, but it sounds like that's the only gripe with the Oregon300 compared to the numerous potential problems with the PN-40. I don't know, it's tempting for the touch screen alone....

 

Also, XMap 6 Professional is $200, not $100.

 

It's $100 for PN owners, some kind of upgrade discount.

[+curt&jen]

Anyone crazy enough to buy and keep buying alkaline batteries...well, IF someone does this, they can't blame anyone but themselves. I KNOW a pair of HD (green) Duracell rechargeables will give you 11+ hours of use, but I use the power kit battery and charge it in the car whenever I can. On my kayak, the battery pack will last up to 8 hours of constant useage...I also carry a pair of rechargeables, just in case (but have only used them one time in several all-day cache/kayak runs).

 

I lock on and stay locked on. Not a time I have seen a lock loss that wasn't due to being inside a big building or under a bridge while kayaking (and then, it wasn't like my unit never relocated the lock). When under bridge, I mean as in sitting there while taking a break!

 

WAAS, get it, love it. I OFTEN see reports of +/-5' and rarely bother to even look to see if it says WAAS or not! I would echo Lee's comments here as well.

 

Having tracked every river trip I've taken, I have never seen the broken line tracks Brian posted pictures of...never.

 

Your questions for XMAP have been answered.....I also think the $100 would be worth it for anyone who wants their own maps...but the aerials I get are enough for me!

 

You can sit on the fence and wish all you want, until you actually take the plunge, you'll only be making guesses and assumptions. I knew about the problems going in, I bought before any of the fixes or paperless updates were put in place and I was more than happy to recommend it waaaay back then (lol, months ago). People kept saying they'd wait for the updates like they may never come and I was suggesting a crapshoot. Well, I bet I helped about 10 people make their choice and I have not seen anyone dis-satisfied (unless I count Brian, but I don't think my comments were a deciding factor for him???). I own a PN-40, my friend owns one, their relatives own one, a few Michigan friends now are proud owners as are THEIR relatives....these things sell themselves!

 

I believe truly, the only crapshoot will be if you get a bad unit (QC problem) and I don't even think that's much of a crapshoot since DeLorme is more than happy to make things right! YMMV!

 

This is the kind of experience I hope to have with my PN-40. You're right though, it's all academic until I take one into the field. I've heard they have a 30-day money back gaurantee, so I guess I need to order one and try it out.

 

You know, I'm sure I'll be laughing at myself even if the performance isn't perfect locks and frequent WAAS service......because the last unit I used was a non-H eTrex Legend. Ha!! Man that thing sucked, and then eventually took a dump with multiple failed attempts at resurrection. There were times when my wife and I would do circles around a cache site never getting closer than 20 feet with that unit.

 

So maybe even mediocre preformance from a lemon PN-40 would still beat what we're used to!

[+Pax42]

I hate to conflict with Entropy's detailed statistical analysis but I'm another owner who's had no problems with their 40. And to you Lee, yes I would contact Delorme and get your unit fixed because random loss of satellites should not be the norm or an accepted condition. During the winter months I often put the 40 in my pocket and still had no loss of 3D lock. I mentioned the same thing to Briansnat in another thread. Work with Delorme until you have a unit you are happy with. They really seem to put an emphasis on customer satisfaction.

 

Appearantly the OP is already aware of Delorme's XMap discount price to PN40 owners so I guess I'm out.

[+Entropy512]

PN-60 - Haven't heard anything. Only new device on the horizon I know of is the 30.

 

Lock drops with the Oregon - While WAAS is not as improved as the PN-40's latest firmware rev (we'll have to see what the next Oregon firmware has to offer, as most likely both are sourcing their firmware from STM and it's just a release schedule thing), I've never had problems with non-WAAS locks. Typically I have a solid lock before the unit even finishes booting (the GPS chipset clearly boots independently of the device UI.)

 

Also, it's a "niche" thing but if you ever want to connect to a device that has classic NMEA serial I/O, the PN-40 will require an intermediary device with USB host capability. The Oregon appears, based on http://garmin.blogs.com/softwareupdates/20...and-oregon.html, to have hardware serial. My guess is that when a "dumb charger" device is detected (MiniUSB pin 4 <=17k ohms to ground) and the device is not set to Spanner mode, it configures the D+ and D- USB pins as serial I/O instead.

 

I'm planning on ordering some mini-USB connectors from digikey and experimenting with this over the next month or two, or cannibalizing a Boxwave DirectSync charging cable. Unfortunately most mini-USB cables leave pin 4 N/C in the connector itself and provide no access to the pin in the cable.

[+curt&jen]

 

Also, it's a "niche" thing but if you ever want to connect to a device that has classic NMEA serial I/O, the PN-40 will require an intermediary device with USB host capability. The Oregon appears, based on http://garmin.blogs.com/softwareupdates/20...and-oregon.html, to have hardware serial. My guess is that when a "dumb charger" device is detected (MiniUSB pin 4 <=17k ohms to ground) and the device is not set to Spanner mode, it configures the D+ and D- USB pins as serial I/O instead.

 

I'm planning on ordering some mini-USB connectors from digikey and experimenting with this over the next month or two, or cannibalizing a Boxwave DirectSync charging cable. Unfortunately most mini-USB cables leave pin 4 N/C in the connector itself and provide no access to the pin in the cable.

 

A little over my head. What is a classic NMEA serial I/O device, and when/why would you want to connect to one?

[+Entropy512]

 

Also, it's a "niche" thing but if you ever want to connect to a device that has classic NMEA serial I/O, the PN-40 will require an intermediary device with USB host capability. The Oregon appears, based on http://garmin.blogs.com/softwareupdates/20...and-oregon.html, to have hardware serial. My guess is that when a "dumb charger" device is detected (MiniUSB pin 4 <=17k ohms to ground) and the device is not set to Spanner mode, it configures the D+ and D- USB pins as serial I/O instead.

 

I'm planning on ordering some mini-USB connectors from digikey and experimenting with this over the next month or two, or cannibalizing a Boxwave DirectSync charging cable. Unfortunately most mini-USB cables leave pin 4 N/C in the connector itself and provide no access to the pin in the cable.

 

A little over my head. What is a classic NMEA serial I/O device, and when/why would you want to connect to one?

NMEA 0183 is an interface standard for serial transfer of information, typically between marine device. (The original intent of the standard). For example, fishfinders without integrated GPS can receive GPS data from an external GPS using NMEA 0183. Another application (the one I linked to) allows for the GPS receiver to provide its position to an external device (in this case a data radio setup known as an APRS Tracker) and receive waypoints in realtime from that device (such as position reports from other APRS users).

 

As I said, it is indeed a bit of a niche nowadays, but some people do need the ability to connect their GPS receiver to another device without a full blown PC as a USB host. (There was a long thread on the DeLorme forums about this at one point.)

 

That said, one would expect that a device marketed as a "serious tool" would focus on such niches.

[+TotemLake]

All them folks who say their PN-40 never loses it's lock -- I guess I'd better figger out what I'm doing wrong with mine or contact DeLorme for service.

 

My wife and I went for a short walk (ten miles up a small mountain (okay, a really BIG hill) ) near our home -- over the weekend and we lost 3D on all of the steeper bits of the climb, and completely lost lock four or five times in a few hours. Sometimes for just a few seconds, once for 6 minutes. I looked at the SV page each time and seemed like we had good geometry and that not many of sats would have been blocked by the hillside -- but the bar graph for mot of the sats dropped to nothing. I've taken this to be normal behaviour from the GPS.

 

One thing I have noticed is my PN-40 seems to do a LOT better if you "prime it" by leaving it powered up in one place with a clear view of the sky for several hours before starting out. It shouldn't take that long (hours?) to get a full almanac download - but the longer I leave it on the back porch any morning before starting out, the better it seems to do on that day.

Odd. I just don't have that problem and I don't prime. My GPS is off for days (sometimes a full month) before any usage and I don't see the issues you see. I'm seeing a pretty reliable track in 3D. It's reliable enough I'm comfortable with reporting my tracks to Moun10Bike's Northwest Trails Project.

[39_Steps]

The Delorme Topo8 software for Windows computers bundled with the PN-40 GPS device is a very capable mapping application. The Delorme PN-40 GPS device is not only a very capable standalone navigation device, it is designed to work in conjunction with Delorme's Topo8. Users who feel the need for in car navigation with text to speech turn by turn directions have the choice of connecting the PN-40 to their laptops while travelling.

 

But "Trees Happen". "Entropy" happens too, so I have been told. I have never fully understood either, although I appreciate the former and am not opposed to the latter. Big trees, or lots of trees can cause my PN-40 to leave gaps in its tracks from time to time. I think I understand this circumstance, and the possible workarounds although it is not my calling to create detailed maps from those recorded tracks in poor satellite reception areas.

 

I do enjoy good critiques by others, whether or not fair and balanced. I personally make little attempt to be fair and balanced, as my nature is to complain, not critique. But if I were to critique instead of complain, I would suggest that the Delorme PN-40 bundled with the Topo8 software is one heck of a bargain for those interested in this category of merchandise. I find mine to be fascinating, and even useful at times.

[+OpenTrackRacer]

A lot here is repetitive from the other thread but...

 

Statistics are an interesting and easily manipulated thing even when based on solid data. Statistics based on conjecture are without merit. The vast majority of PN-40 owners do not partake in on-line forums. This is the same for most products. Of those that do, a significant percentage will access a forum to seek help with a problem or complain about an issue. People with working products don't tend to post just to say they're happy. The PN-40 has four stars out of 56 customer reviews on Amazon. That should be a good indicator as most consumers are more likely to post reviews there than on a brand or hobby specific forum.

 

The PN-40 is not perfect. There have been issues. My first PN-40 bricked in ten minutes. I called DeLORME and they sent a new one via FedEx which I had in my hands the very next day. My replacement PN-40 has been flawless. Other people have had issues as well. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that more than a small percentage of units are affected.

 

As I mentioned before, I personally have not had any issues with my PN-40 other than the original failure. Once I have a lock it stays locked and the battery life with good Ni-MH or the DeLORME Li-Ion battery has been fine. I use mine for caching and exploring and the USGS topo maps have been invaluable to me. No other map has the information contained in those scanned maps. That feature is worth the price of admission alone for me.

 

Above and beyond all that, DeLORME has an unconditional 30 day money back guarantee on the PN-40. That's above and beyond the retailer's return policy (which is quite liberal at places like Amazon and REI).

 

The PN-40 is now $244.97 at Amazon with free shipping. That's a smoking deal.

 

Good luck with your choice!

[+snow_rules]

Also note the XMAP Pro is $100 for PNxx users. If you purchase directly from DeLorme you can order both at the same time and get the discount. If you order the PNxx from a different vendor you just need to call DeLorme for the XMAP software.

[+coggins]

5,6 - Without professional-level dependability (see #1), I am not sure how much these pro features will actually help you. Also, while not officially supported by Garmin, there are third-party tools that may allow ESRI data to be put into the Garmin. (I'm 95% certain this has been done, as all of the free maps at http://www.gpsfiledepot.org/ get their road data from the Cenus TIGER data, which is now in ESRI shapefile format.)

 

I suggest waiting for the PN-40's successor (the 30 appears to be a stripped down 40) or going Garmin.

 

Garmin has announced that future devices will carry the MTKv2 chipset, so you might want to wait and see what happens along these lines if you don't like the PN-40/Oregon receiver performance.

 

Also, XMap 6 Professional is $200, not $100.

Couple of corrections need to be made here.

1. It's http://www.gpsfiledepot.com not http://www.gpsfiledepot.org/

2. Not all the maps on this site use "Cenus TIGER data". Maybe just the ones you have looked at.

3. You can get xMap Professional v6.2 for US$100.00 directly from DeLorme. Don't believe your lying eyes. I'm sure you didn't pay retail for your garmin unit, did you?

[+curt&jen]

Thanks again to everyone! I got some good replies on the Delorme forum as well (with a sister thread). I'm about to pull the trigger via Amazon so I can burn a $50 gift cert. So I'm $194 shipped, not bad at all :-D

 

Before I do, one last question on the topic of accessories. I know the PN-40 supports up to 32gb of SD card, but good grief, not necessary anytime soon. If I want to keep a modest number of aerials on the unit, possibly even those that I georef myself, what's a good amount of SD memory to keep handy? 4gb? 8gb? I'm going to order a card along with the unit is why I ask.

Edited June 18, 2009 by curt&jen

[+lazybees]

You've gotten so many replies, that I almost decided not to, but here goes.....

 

1. I started 2 1/2 years ago with the PN-20. Now you need to go there if you want to talk about battery life. It was terrible. However with the PN-40, we use both the rechargeable Li-on batteries or rechargeable Nimh. I would say 6 hours is good. Now we do keep it plugged in while driving in the jeep, unplugging when on a cache trek or hiking. Better life would be more desirable, but is tolerable now.

 

2. I haven't ever experienced this. We travel in our motor home 100% of the time so we've been all over the country and although I would think this could be attributed to the area you are in, we haven't found this to be an issue.

 

3. Nearly always get WAAS lock.

 

4. We keep a 16GB SD card filled with detail maps. Always have a PQ or 2 or multiple caches and routes loaded. Haven't seen this issue.

 

5. No knowledge on this one.

 

6. Just a little experience on this one. Have loaded a couple of maps acquired elsewhere and one jpg "map" with XMap for places out of country where I couldn't get anything from Delorme. Like all things, it works better the 2nd or 3rd time you do it as you get better. My experience limited, but it worked quite well for us.

 

Don't know what else to say, we love our PN-40 and use it nearly every day.

Edited June 18, 2009 by lazybees

[+lazybees]

You've gotten so many replies, that I almost decided not to, but here goes.....

 

1. I started 2 1/2 years ago with the PN-20. Now you need to go there if you want to talk about battery life. It was terrible. However with the PN-40, we use both the rechargeable Li-on batteries or rechargeable Nimh. I would say 6 hours is good. Now we do keep it plugged in while driving in the jeep, unplugging when on a cache trek or hiking. Better life would be more desirable, but is tolerable now.

 

2. I haven't ever experienced this. We travel in our motor home 100% of the time so we've been all over the country and although I would think this could be attributed to the area you are in, we haven't found this to be an issue.

 

3. Nearly always get WAAS lock.

 

4. We keep a 16GB SD card filled with detail maps. Always have a PQ or 2 or multiple caches and routes loaded. Haven't seen this issue.

 

5. No knowledge on this one.

 

6. Just a little experience on this one. Have loaded a couple of maps acquired elsewhere and one jpg "map" with XMap for places out of country where I couldn't get anything from Delorme. Like all things, it works better the 2nd or 3rd time you do it as you get better. My experience limited, but it worked quite well for us.

 

Don't know what else to say, we love our PN-40 and use it nearly every day.

Edited June 18, 2009 by lazybees

[+Rockin Roddy]

Might seem like a weird thread title, but hopefully it'll make some sense. There are more sticky threads than I have time to read, but I've read a great deal here and on the DeLorme forums about this unit. I'd like to cut through and ask some questions even though they may have been answered already.

 

For the past few days I've been researching the PN-40, and it's fair to say I'm in love with everything this unit is supposed to be. Paperless caching and on-screen aerials are among my favorite features. I dig the size and price, as well as the dual-core processor and generous storage space. All of the above was not available four years ago when I bought my first unit, an eTrex Legend. This is why I want to own a PN-40....why I want it not to suck

 

All I'm looking for here is some practical testimonials from users who go out geocaching and logging routes and tracks with their PN-40. I'm familiar with several cronic issues that seem to be affecting a fair number of these units. My gut tells me to wait for future versions with fixes for the bugs, but this unit is so stinking cool, I'm willing to overlook some issues, or heck even take a gamble that mine won't have them.....IF AND ONLY IF there are more folks out there having positive experiences with the following:

 

1. Battery life - multiple threads tell stories of horrible battery life, like 1/2 hour to 1 hour with NiMH batteries. That's totally a dealbreaker. I can't be carrying around 16 AA's for a day of caching or hiking.

 

2. Lock drops - this one seems to be all over the place. Some people report no problems, others say they can't get a lock for anything. Again, I've seen both said with 2.5 firmware.

 

3. WAAS being a rare delicacy - same qualifier as #2. I've seen this said of 2.5 firmware.

 

4. Slow redraws when more than 2GB of data is stored.

 

1 - Not typical of a properly manufactured PN-40 unit, but the defect rate on the PN-40 is incredibly high compared to other consumer electronics devices. The problems are described as a "small percentage of customers" but the defect rate is statistically significant and far higher than acceptable. I've seen at least two reports (one Amazon review and one on the sticky DeLorme power issues thread) of people who got two dud units in a row. That should NEVER happen and indicates that the defect rate is incredibly high compared to normal. The fact that all of the problems are centered in the power supply circuit indicate a design flaw, not a manufacturing quality control issue. It's also not a case of a bad batch of power supply parts since the reports have been going on for 6+ months at this time.

 

 

You do have backing for this wild statement, right? Can you post evidence of this or are you just making assumptions biased by your own experience? As to design flaw...funny, the fact that many (I would have to guess the majority since we all know the happy customer has no reason to gripe...but this is an assumption and I am in no way stating this is fact) have NO problems would point just the opposite of what you have stated...

[+FierceDeityLink1]

Anecdotal evidence for both sides, but I've read many posts here on Groundspeak and reviews elsewhere that state problems with the PN-40. Obviously, more people are going to speak out against defects than working units, but it's hard to ignore given the number of complaints.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Anecdotal evidence for both sides, but I've read many posts here on Groundspeak and reviews elsewhere that state problems with the PN-40. Obviously, more people are going to speak out against defects than working units, but it's hard to ignore given the number of complaints.

 

No one is discounting there's a problem, some will say it's high while more will say otherwise. What is being said though, is that the CS for DeLorme is TOP-NOTCH and seems more than willing to make right any problems! I wouldn't suggest you ignore the problem, being aware of them is a great thing...

[+Searching_ut]

I confess, some of the glowing reviews were part of the reason I bought my PN-40, and myself, I find myself questioning what the story is.

 

Regarding battery life, the unit runs them down fast, even good quality NiMh. It also runs them down fairly quickly if left sitting on the shelf turned off. For whatever reason, battery life is fairly variable in the field, and the unit is somewhat inconsistant in regards to when it decides to power down. This can be an issue because it sometimes causes problems getting the unit to re-boot if the batteries drop down to much.

 

The reception is about average for a modern GPS unit. The "Fantastic", or "never looses Lock" sorts fo comments are way out in left field. Not only does it loose lock on occasion if not held in a optimal postion, there are still some software glitches that come in to play with it either shutting down, or not re-gaining lock when it does loose reception. Here is an example track:

 

 

One thing we keep not mentioning is maps. The road maps can be quite bad, and there currently aren't any options when you have map problems. Here is an example track where I really had no idea where the roads were. On the occasions when the GPS did show me on a road, the street wasn't the one the GPS thought I was on. You'll also notice terrain features weren't all that great. I'm pretty sure I didn't do any walking on water here. You'll also notice the spots where the dots making up the track have larger than average straight lines between them. Those are lost reception glitches. I would overlay on an aerial photo map to show where I actually was, but they aren't available for this area through Delorme. I could convert the track, then work with it in other software, but now I'm eating up time I could be using for real life, or even maybe uploading and logging the caches I found on this trip which I haven't done yet.

 

 

The unit is interesting, and has potential, but can be quite annoying in the field. The battery thing leaves a lot to be desired, locking the unit into using Delormes TOPO software only, and the software still seems a little buggy to me. It's very stable in good reception areas, but acts a little rough when the going gets tough.

 

On a good note, on this particular trip, I was having too much fun sight seeing to actually do much in the line of geocaching. I got a lot of good pictures though, some of which you can see at: Alaska Photos

[+Rockin Roddy]

Sorry UT, I stand by my comments and you can tell me I'm in left field all you wish! I do NOT lose reception, have not yet and don't see it coming up in the future. Speak to your own experiences if you wish, but disparaging remarks about my experiences is uncalled for.

 

Also, I have run my battery down to dead on more than a few occassions, I tend to discharge it before recharging if I run it really low (like when kayaking)...I have NEVER had a problem with "re-booting" or powering up or anything else for that matter, I would say you might want to check with DeLorme on those issues. I would add that I have never had a [roblem knowing when the battery was going to die, it tells you!

 

ETA: I would add that I often put my PN-40 in my lifejacket pocket when in sketchy situations, still no loss of reception! Only when under bridge structures for an extended amount of time.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Pax42]

I confess, some of the glowing reviews were part of the reason I bought my PN-40, and myself, I find myself questioning what the story is.

 

Regarding battery life, the unit runs them down fast, even good quality NiMh. It also runs them down fairly quickly if left sitting on the shelf turned off. For whatever reason, battery life is fairly variable in the field, and the unit is somewhat inconsistant in regards to when it decides to power down. This can be an issue because it sometimes causes problems getting the unit to re-boot if the batteries drop down to much.

 

The reception is about average for a modern GPS unit. The "Fantastic", or "never looses Lock" sorts fo comments are way out in left field. Not only does it loose lock on occasion if not held in a optimal postion, there are still some software glitches that come in to play with it either shutting down, or not re-gaining lock when it does loose reception.

Gee, I think a bunch of us just got called liars. I guess not everyone in Utah is friendly.

[+curt&jen]

I wasn't trying to start a fire fight. In defense of folks with bad experiences, I tend to emote a little bit too much when I've got a turd on my hands. I hear everyone loud and clear, regardless of pro or con.

 

Seraching_ut, this is just a hip shot from a GIS techy, so please don't think I'm trying to make a bold statement. It just looks to me like that map you posted isn't the problem. I suspect the maps are just fine and properly referenced, but rather you've got a reall crapper of a unit on your hands that's recording bogus tracks. The tracks are being laid down as they should, but rather the values being recorded are what sucks. Just a theory based on what I see everyday at work.

 

So several posts later the story is still the same. I believe the PN-40 is loaded with great potential and several features I absolutely must have, such as paperless caching and aerials.

 

I also believe it's still potluck for the buyer. I'm going to order one tomorrow and be prepared for an RMA, but optimistic that I won't have to do that

 

Again, thanks everyone for the honest feedback. Whether I join the ranks of people who got a lemon on the first try (and later got a good one) or those who got a winner right out of the box, I look forward to some successful and fun caching trips with this neat new product.

[+user13371]

Gee, I think a bunch of us just got called liars. I guess not everyone in Utah is friendly.

Nah -- but if anyone is getting that impression from me, I apologize.

 

I think what is being made pretty clear in this thread is that buying a PN-40 is a bit of a gamble. It's a new product and I really believe it has some QC issues -- if not serious design issues. I don't know if I would go with Entropy's "incredible" defect rate (if I don't believe him, does that mean he's "incredible?" ), but I'd wager it's higher than more mature product offerings from competitors.

 

So some people are get "never loses lock, always perfect" out of the box, and some folks are saying "why can't I get this thing to work?" If you look back through this thread, you'll notice even some of the folks who praise the PN-40 are saying something like "the first one I got was a dud, but the replacement DeLorme sent me works much better."

 

For that matter, I am on my second one. My first one didn't work at all. The replacement gets a fix faster and is more accurate, good enough. But after relating some of my comments here about unreliability at MAINTAINING a fix, others are telling me it doesn't sound like it's working as well as it should. So I should call DeLorme back AGAIN. Really?

 

Assuming there are units across a wide continuum of quality out there -- it's pretty hard on someone who gets one that's marginal. Works "well enough" but not as well as some others? And no way to know if you DO call DeLorme, that the replacement will be any better - or worse? Or how many times you might have to repeat that exercise to get a "perfect" one? No matter how good DeLorme's support may be, that's gotta be wearing on them, and their customer base.

 

Going back to Pax's comment about feeling like he was called a liar -- the tone of these discussions does tend to take that annoying turn...

 

User 1: I have this problem with my GPS...

User 2: What? Can't be, mine doesn't do that!

User 3: I love my GPS, it's perfect in every way...

User 4: What? Can't be, mine doesn't do that!

 

Being one of the folks who sees good AND bad in this model, I get slapped around by the best of and worst of both sides

Edited June 19, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Pax42]

curt&jen,

You can obviously see the folks here tend to be passionate about their toys and that's why most of these "What's The Best" threads get a little heated. I don't like to argue with people about their opinions but merely try to point out inaccuracies in their comments. Having said that I don't really think searching_ut is directly calling anyone a liar but to so easily dismiss others positive experiences is wrong. I too would be unhappy if my PN-40 didn't perform up to expectations but rather than just accept as is, I would insist the manufacturer provide me a unit that works as well as other customers report theirs do. If my PN-40 got as poor reception as has been noted by lee and searching_ut I'd probably be back to using my 60csx.

 

I hope you get a good one and enjoy it's features as much as I have. Good luck.

[+coreynjoey]

While I'm in the 'I love my GPS, it's perfect in every way' camp, I do know people that haven't been as lucky. And what I hear from those people is that DeLorme's customer service has been top notch in getting those issues resolved for them. So for me, it's nice to know that if something ever does go wrong with my unit, I feel like it'll be taken care of.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Gee, I think a bunch of us just got called liars. I guess not everyone in Utah is friendly.

Nah -- but if anyone is getting that impression from me, I apologize.

 

I think what is being made pretty clear in this thread is that buying a PN-40 is a bit of a gamble. It's a new product and I really believe it has some QC issues -- if not serious design issues. I don't know if I would go with Entropy's "incredible" defect rate (if I don't believe him, does that mean he's "incredible?" ), but I'd wager it's higher than more mature product offerings from competitors.

 

So some people are get "never loses lock, always perfect" out of the box, and some folks are saying "why can't I get this thing to work?" If you look back through this thread, you'll notice even some of the folks who praise the PN-40 are saying something like "the first one I got was a dud, but the replacement DeLorme sent me works much better."

 

For that matter, I am on my second one. My first one didn't work at all. The replacement gets a fix faster and is more accurate, good enough. But after relating some of my comments here about unreliability at MAINTAINING a fix, others are telling me it doesn't sound like it's working as well as it should. So I should call DeLorme back AGAIN. Really?

 

Assuming there are units across a wide continuum of quality out there -- it's pretty hard on someone who gets one that's marginal. Works "well enough" but not as well as some others? And no way to know if you DO call DeLorme, that the replacement will be any better - or worse? Or how many times you might have to repeat that exercise to get a "perfect" one? No matter how good DeLorme's support may be, that's gotta be wearing on them, and their customer base.

 

Going back to Pax's comment about feeling like he was called a liar -- the tone of these discussions does tend to take that annoying turn...

 

User 1: I have this problem with my GPS...

User 2: What? Can't be, mine doesn't do that!

User 3: I love my GPS, it's perfect in every way...

User 4: What? Can't be, mine doesn't do that!

 

Being one of the folks who sees good AND bad in this model, I get slapped around by the best of and worst of both sides

 

Nah Lee, no one is calling you a liar, we're just saying our experience is different and maybe you should look into it further. The "we're not seeing a problem" camp (from what I've seen) has been saying we're quite pleased with our experiences and we'll be glad to let others know it's not ALL problems and frustration in the PN world! Like I said, no one is denying there seems to be a QC problem, we just dismiss the "high" comments. No one denies there's people with different experiences, but we'd like NOT to be called liars for sharing ours as well.

[+Entropy512]

 

You do have backing for this wild statement, right? Can you post evidence of this or are you just making assumptions biased by your own experience? As to design flaw...funny, the fact that many (I would have to guess the majority since we all know the happy customer has no reason to gripe...but this is an assumption and I am in no way stating this is fact) have NO problems would point just the opposite of what you have stated...

There is at least one reviewer on Amazon who received two defective units in a row.

 

Similarly, there's a separate user on the PN-40 "unit not powering on" thread that has indicated receiving two defective units in a row.

 

No time to look up specific links, but the reports are there and I've given the places to look.

 

Given that the probability of receiving two defective units in a row is equal to the square of the probability of receiving one defective unit, the probability of receiving a single defective unit has to be *incredibly* high for anyone to receive two defective units in a row.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

You do have backing for this wild statement, right? Can you post evidence of this or are you just making assumptions biased by your own experience? As to design flaw...funny, the fact that many (I would have to guess the majority since we all know the happy customer has no reason to gripe...but this is an assumption and I am in no way stating this is fact) have NO problems would point just the opposite of what you have stated...

There is at least one reviewer on Amazon who received two defective units in a row.

 

Similarly, there's a separate user on the PN-40 "unit not powering on" thread that has indicated receiving two defective units in a row.

 

No time to look up specific links, but the reports are there and I've given the places to look.

 

Given that the probability of receiving two defective units in a row is equal to the square of the probability of receiving one defective unit, the probability of receiving a single defective unit has to be *incredibly* high for anyone to receive two defective units in a row.

 

Assumptions and misleading at that! You can assume anything you want, but leave the sensationalism labels for when you have facts please! But I do like how you try to justify your statement! Stick to facts please.

 

Not a soul has dismissed the problem, some do tend to make wild statements based on biased assumptions, people should take ALL assumptions for what they are....

 

Is it safe to say, using your own justifications, that you make more wild statements than factual....purposely? I mean, you continually post these biased and unsubstantiated assumptions, trying to mislead people, yet you never give anything as backing other than assumptions based on very little info!

[+curt&jen]

Well I finally took the plunge. My PN-40 is ordered, fingers crossed. I also ordered a Transcend 16GB SD card with USB reader.

 

In a month or so I'll get XMap and start geeking around with aerials I have in mind.

 

By the way, is there a window of time in which a PN-40 buyer must order XMap to get the $100 discount?

[NordicMan]

Best of luck with it curt&jen! To those who know, Is there any type of serial number sequence or other identifier on the GPSr's outside casing that would indicate if the one they get is a "newer" built model, or one that's been sitting on a shelf for a while?

 

I would guess a newer built model would have the most up-to-date innards

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Best of luck with it curt&jen! To those who know, Is there any type of serial number sequence or other identifier on the GPSr's outside casing that would indicate if the one they get is a "newer" built model, or one that's been sitting on a shelf for a while?

 

I would guess a newer built model would have the most up-to-date innards

Two things:

Bundled with Topo USA 7.0 or the more recent 8.0, and

The firmware version listed in System Info.

 

There are serial numbers, but I'm not sure what one would discern from it.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+Entropy512]

 

Assumptions and misleading at that! You can assume anything you want, but leave the sensationalism labels for when you have facts please! But I do like how you try to justify your statement! Stick to facts please.

 

Not a soul has dismissed the problem, some do tend to make wild statements based on biased assumptions, people should take ALL assumptions for what they are....

 

Is it safe to say, using your own justifications, that you make more wild statements than factual....purposely? I mean, you continually post these biased and unsubstantiated assumptions, trying to mislead people, yet you never give anything as backing other than assumptions based on very little info!

Please state where I am making assumptions. Given two independent events, the probability of a given combination of outcomes (Two units received, both with defects) is the product of the probability of each event occurring (Receiving a unit with a defect).

 

Thus, P(two defective units received) = P(one defect) * P(one defect) = P(one defect)^2.

 

For any reasonable value of P(one defect), P(two defects) should be negligible.

 

This is basic and well established probability mathematics.

 

Despite the fact that P(two defects) should be negligible for any reasonable value of P(one defect), there are at least two reports of users receiving two defective units in a row.

 

From a reviewer named Shaun Collins on Amazon - "The bad... I COULD NOT KEEP BATTERIES!!!! I tried all types. Lithium I could only get ~3 hours out of them. Forget rechargeable batteries because it would lock up within ~5 seconds when turning on. I would not buy this product if I have a MAC. I have a PC at work so that is how I downloaded Topo 8.0.

A want to say that Amazon is absolutely amazing! I sent back this product twice with the same battery problems. The third time they said they would refund my money and I understand."

 

Similarly, here's a report on the DeLorme forums of receiving two defective units in a row - http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?p=117976#117976

 

Thus, P(one defect) must be far higher than for a properly designed unit originating from a factory with good quality control.

 

The only assumption here is that defect probabilities are independent - A safe assumption unless DeLorme is sending out refurb units without testing them fully to determine if it has the same problem as the unit it's supposed to be replacing, in which case their warranty support is not nearly as good as people claim.

[+coggins]

Well I finally took the plunge. My PN-40 is ordered, fingers crossed. I also ordered a Transcend 16GB SD card with USB reader.

 

In a month or so I'll get XMap and start geeking around with aerials I have in mind.

 

By the way, is there a window of time in which a PN-40 buyer must order XMap to get the $100 discount?

With the conflicting replies full of hearsay in this thread I would check with DeLorme on this. In fact I would use this form to contact them: LINK. Edited June 19, 2009 by coggins

[+curt&jen]

Best of luck with it curt&jen! To those who know, Is there any type of serial number sequence or other identifier on the GPSr's outside casing that would indicate if the one they get is a "newer" built model, or one that's been sitting on a shelf for a while?

 

I would guess a newer built model would have the most up-to-date innards

 

Great idea, thanks for thinking of that.

 

Two things:

Bundled with Topo USA 7.0 or the more recent 8.0, and

The firmware version listed in System Info.

 

There are serial numbers, but I'm not sure what one would discern from it.

 

Hmm. On Amazon they do list it as including Topo 7.0. I think I mentioned this earlier, but actually it could've been in another thread.....anyway someone commented that it will probably come with 8.0 even though it says 7.0 because so much of Amazon's goods are drop-shipped. It could be that the verbage in the Amazon listing is out of date, not the bundle in the other words. Who knows? I guess I'll find out in a few days.

 

Now you guys have got me curios. If getting a more recent model made a difference, would that be due to an actual hardware change that DeLorme has implimented in the last few months? Or is it merely that newer units are being shipped with FW 2.5. If the latter then I'm not worried about it because I can make the update myself. If the former, I gotta know what those changes are.

 

Ha, but honestly, I'm going to call DeLorme again when it arrives for good measure. I'll read them the serial and ask for info on any updates that may or may not apply.

 

I gotta say, I'm so glad for this forum as well as DeLorme's, and all the friendly folks willing to post in this discussion.

[+Entropy512]

I can confirm that newly shipped PN-40s from Amazon come with Topo 8, not 7.

 

Also, I have not seen a single indication of DeLorme making any hardware revisions/fixes, so you should be able to update to the "latest and greatest" just by updating firmware.

 

As to whether DeLorme will do a recall once they redesign the power supply circuitry, who knows.

[+TotemLake]

Well I finally took the plunge. My PN-40 is ordered, fingers crossed. I also ordered a Transcend 16GB SD card with USB reader.

 

In a month or so I'll get XMap and start geeking around with aerials I have in mind.

 

By the way, is there a window of time in which a PN-40 buyer must order XMap to get the $100 discount?

With the conflicting replies full of hearsay in this thread I would check with DeLorme on this. In fact I would use this form to contact them: LINK.

Phone them instead. The one failing DeLorme has had is responding to email and form requests.

[+user13371]

The only assumption here is that defect probabilities are independent...

I think you're making a HUGE assumption by relying on Amazon reviews for statistics. 56 reviews is not a statistically significant sample. BUT -- if you're going to use that as your base, let's play a different game:

 

- Pick several different GPS models from different makers and available on Amazon.

- Look up the total number of reviews for each, and the total number of 5,4,3,2,1 star reviews.

- Call any 4 or 5 star review "positive"

- ... any 1 or 2 star review "negative"

- ... any 3 star review "mixed"

 

and look at the final percentages. I just did that for a few obvious ones and came up with these "positive" percentages:

 

PN-40: 77%

Oregon 300: 79%

Colorado 400t: 70%

60Csx: 90%

 

For the PN-40, Oregon, and Colorado, the number of "negative" and "mixed" reviews were pretty evenly divided. For the 60csx, it was a little over 6% negative and a little less than 4% mixed -- still pretty close though. Up to you to decide if mixed reviews should land in the + or - column or be discarded.

 

Not surprising, really...

Edited June 19, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+TotemLake]

I confess, some of the glowing reviews ...

 

Dude, it's very hard to read your post if you dont resize your images or post a link to them if you don't want to do that.

 

I quit reading after scrolling to the right the third time.

[+The Yinnies]

Best of luck with it curt&jen! To those who know, Is there any type of serial number sequence or other identifier on the GPSr's outside casing that would indicate if the one they get is a "newer" built model, or one that's been sitting on a shelf for a while?

 

I would guess a newer built model would have the most up-to-date innards

 

Great idea, thanks for thinking of that.

 

Two things:

Bundled with Topo USA 7.0 or the more recent 8.0, and

The firmware version listed in System Info.

 

There are serial numbers, but I'm not sure what one would discern from it.

 

Hmm. On Amazon they do list it as including Topo 7.0. I think I mentioned this earlier, but actually it could've been in another thread.....anyway someone commented that it will probably come with 8.0 even though it says 7.0 because so much of Amazon's goods are drop-shipped. It could be that the verbage in the Amazon listing is out of date, not the bundle in the other words. Who knows? I guess I'll find out in a few days.

 

Now you guys have got me curios. If getting a more recent model made a difference, would that be due to an actual hardware change that DeLorme has implimented in the last few months? Or is it merely that newer units are being shipped with FW 2.5. If the latter then I'm not worried about it because I can make the update myself. If the former, I gotta know what those changes are.

 

Ha, but honestly, I'm going to call DeLorme again when it arrives for good measure. I'll read them the serial and ask for info on any updates that may or may not apply.

 

I gotta say, I'm so glad for this forum as well as DeLorme's, and all the friendly folks willing to post in this discussion.

Just got one last week and firmware is up to date and Topo 8.0 in the box

[+curt&jen]

Cool! Thanks to the recent buyers for chiming in. Hopefully my unit comes out of the box ready to rock.