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Poor logs deleted


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Ow man, honest to Pete... I was getting on here to rant about poor cache logs, in my case a bunch of nothing but smileys, and there's already a rant on here. Crud...

 

I liked the idea about just putting a color or similar, only thing is that on the wap site and on GPSr's such as Colorado and Oregon the actual code would show up. And that would be WAAAAY to long. Confusing and funny but way to long....

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I think that a more apt way to look at this is that the hider put an amount of effort into hiding the cache for the community. If the community doesn't give the same amount back in logs (cumulatively), then the cache owner should reevaluate the cache and his personal expectations. Those are the things that likely are broken, not the community.

That's reasonable. However there is a possiblity that it's the community thats broken. Then what?

Thank you for a much needed laugh. :)

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I think that a more apt way to look at this is that the hider put an amount of effort into hiding the cache for the community. If the community doesn't give the same amount back in logs (cumulatively), then the cache owner should reevaluate the cache and his personal expectations. Those are the things that likely are broken, not the community.

That's reasonable. However there is a possiblity that it's the community thats broken. Then what?

Thank you for a much needed laugh. :)

 

Yeah, it's impossible the majority could lose its way, right? I read a fascinating article about NASA's failure relating to the challenger disaster. There were several individuals who had concerns, but "Group Think" took over. It's very possible that there is a problem with the community, possibly brought on by problems with certain systems. Poor logs are just a symptom of a bigger problem with the geocaching community.

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I think that a more apt way to look at this is that the hider put an amount of effort into hiding the cache for the community. If the community doesn't give the same amount back in logs (cumulatively), then the cache owner should reevaluate the cache and his personal expectations. Those are the things that likely are broken, not the community.

That's reasonable. However there is a possiblity that it's the community thats broken. Then what?

Thank you for a much needed laugh. :)

Yeah, it's impossible the majority could lose its way, right? I read a fascinating article about NASA's failure relating to the challenger disaster. There were several individuals who had concerns, but "Group Think" took over. It's very possible that there is a problem with the community, possibly brought on by problems with certain systems. Poor logs are just a symptom of a bigger problem with the geocaching community.

Thank you. Ironically your analogy actually supports my viewpoint over your own.

 

Yes, those few in NASA who abandoned their minority thinking in order to cave in to the overwhelmingly more fashionable attitudes of the larger group did themselves, and everyone else, a fatal disservice. Had they confidently defended their unpopular viewpoint in the face of opposition and ridicule instead, then maybe those seven astronauts would still be around.

 

I still see no reason to take offense over minimalist logs. If you and the majority disagree with me, then so be it. Nobody has convinced me to change my opinion.

 

To you and RK, I say: If it is truly your goal to modify the entire Geocaching community so as to align everyone else’s attitudes and preferences to match your specific, and presumably more correct, personal desires – as opposed to instead opening your own minds and being a bit more tolerant of the wide variety of perfectly legitimate attitudes regarding preferences and logging behavior – then I wish you both good luck.

 

I am fully prepared to be amazed when your mass hypnosis succeeds.

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I know how to say "I have been bitten by a small insect" in Japanese. When I went there it was the random phrase I learned out of the phrase book and amused various people to no end when I would try it out... and cause my Japanese buddy to laugh uproariously.

 

Mushi ni sasarimas***a! I think.

 

Oops! thank goodness for the autocensor! I wasnt even thinking when I posted it :D sorry!

Edited by mrbort
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But I'm not going to write:

 

"The scenery of this particular store's front parking lot was quite exquisite, the blacktop looked like it was paved yesterday and the stripes were so pretty all in a row, looked like an angel laid them down from on high... You could hardly notice where the truckers park overnight despite the trash strewn about, and if you can hold your gag reflex, the odor of something dying under the bush next to GZ is hardly a distraction. The muggles were a real surprise but we cleverly used the georig as cover...Thanks for bringing me to this special and unique place"

 

 

oh, but you SHOULD!

 

it's great fun.

 

Love the pics! :D

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To sum up, the suggestion is: Allow cachers to log a cache as found without any notes

 

That's actually a reasonable option. You should make a pitch in the website forum.

 

i'm against this option simply because people in general are lazy. given the opportunity to write nothing at all, many more people would jump at it. if they have to write SOMETHING, we have a better likelihood that they will write something decent.

 

not a huge likelihood, but better at least.

I had never thought of this logless find idea before, but I like it.

 

If people only write something if they want to, then the information in a PQ would be more useful than it is now. If we only get five logs per cache, I'd rather have them be written by people who actively chose to say something, than by people who only write "TFTC" or "TNLNSL" because they are required to write something.

 

(This is assuming that the logless find does not take up one a of the five log slots per cache.)

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I think that a more apt way to look at this is that the hider put an amount of effort into hiding the cache for the community. If the community doesn't give the same amount back in logs (cumulatively), then the cache owner should reevaluate the cache and his personal expectations. Those are the things that likely are broken, not the community.

That's reasonable. However there is a possiblity that it's the community thats broken. Then what?

Thank you for a much needed laugh. :)

Yeah, it's impossible the majority could lose its way, right? I read a fascinating article about NASA's failure relating to the challenger disaster. There were several individuals who had concerns, but "Group Think" took over. It's very possible that there is a problem with the community, possibly brought on by problems with certain systems. Poor logs are just a symptom of a bigger problem with the geocaching community.

Thank you. Ironically your analogy actually supports my viewpoint over your own.

 

Yes, those few in NASA who abandoned their minority thinking in order to cave in to the overwhelmingly more fashionable attitudes of the larger group did themselves, and everyone else, a fatal disservice. Had they confidently defended their unpopular viewpoint in the face of opposition and ridicule instead, then maybe those seven astronauts would still be around.

 

I still see no reason to take offense over minimalist logs. If you and the majority disagree with me, then so be it. Nobody has convinced me to change my opinion.

 

To you and RK, I say: If it is truly your goal to modify the entire Geocaching community so as to align everyone else’s attitudes and preferences to match your specific, and presumably more correct, personal desires – as opposed to instead opening your own minds and being a bit more tolerant of the wide variety of perfectly legitimate attitudes regarding preferences and logging behavior – then I wish you both good luck.

 

I am fully prepared to be amazed when your mass hypnosis succeeds.

The challenger disaster was due to the lead engineer not giving buyoff to launch because of the o-rings and possible failure. He was pressured to take off his engineers hat and put on his managers hat and think about the bad publicity of another delayed launch. It was also inferred he could lose his job. He got hung out to dry for giving in. It was a case study in business ethics.

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Personally...receiving acronym logs or logs that merely state "Found It" honestly don't bother me...everyone has there own preference. I have been reminded lately/recently that everyone's world is just a bit different than each others...and especially different than my own.

 

All I know is that, personally, I try to write a nice log an each cache I now visit...I may include a Copy/Paste portion every once in a while (usually stating who I was caching with and what not...you know...all the small details of the day or group)...but I always try to include something unique for each cache...even if it is just a simple one line statement...

 

I don't know if this has really been stated here yet...but something for the OP to think about in terms of the Guidelines in which we all agree to when placing a cache...

 

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

If it is appropriate for your cache location or theme, you may ask the cache seeker to accomplish an optional and simple task, either close to the cache site (normally within 0.1 miles or 161 meters) or when writing their online log. For example, wear the goofy hat inside the cache container and upload a photograph. Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish optional tasks. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

This guideline change applies immediately to all logs written from April 4, 2009 and going forward. Older caches with "additional logging requirements" (ALRs) are not grandfathered under the older guideline. If you own an existing cache with mandatory additional logging requirements, we request that you:

* Cease deleting logs based on additional logging requirements.
* Review your own cache listing to see if the ALR can be made into an optional and simple task, or whether it must be removed altogether.
* Adjust your geocache listing by editing the text then contact a reviewer to change the cache type, if appropriate.

 

The relative part for this situation is...

"Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed."

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Why would you delete a childs log, who doesn't like to log caches. My brother logs the caches like ewwww, or muddy. and it describes the area more than the cache in his logs, usually its one or two words. So they would delete a 8 or 9 year old who logs the caches themselves. Even found with brother. Its short and easy for them.

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[white] [/white]

 

The log looks blank on the page. But because the email notification is not encoded, the cache owner and anyone watching the cache will see the codes when they get the email.

However the CO doesn't get notified when a log gets edited after it's been posted. We had a former local cacher go on a similar rant in our yahoo group a few years back. It's just possible or at least hypothetical that a few of us started logging his hides with TFTC/TNLNSL and then editing them to something a bit more prosaic. :D:unsure::):anibad:

 

If I lived near the OP, and they had some caches to find I just might do that again.

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However the CO doesn't get notified when a log gets edited after it's been posted. We had a former local cacher go on a similar rant in our yahoo group a few years back. It's just possible or at least hypothetical that a few of us started logging his hides with TFTC/TNLNSL and then editing them to something a bit more prosaic.

 

i can't think of anything more prosaic than tftc/tnlnsl.

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From a newbie.

 

This one has an easy answer...."DON'T DELETE LOGS!!" If they have obvious things wrong...hints, spoilers, hate-speech, curse-words, etc, then it's obviously fine. I would however, if it were me, save a copy of what I deleted, in case it ever came back to me...."Why did you delete this person's log?" Right here!!

 

I am a newbie, but I do have a few caches out, some waiting for approval. If you write "THX" in your log, oh well.....hopefully the next person will do a bit better. But I bet that you WON'T write just "THX", because my hides always have a bit of interesting "something" associated with them.

 

Think of it this way. Several cachers like the attitude, "This cache belongs to ME!! So I'll do what I want with it!" Well, the person who looked up your cache, downloaded the info, traveled to the site, climbed the hill, found the container, signed the paper, carefully re-hid the cache, went home, logged in, found your cache, reported his find, & made a note of it......he also owns something....the words that he used in his log.

 

Why SHOULD you delete them?? I won't...never will, regardless of how short it is, unless it falls under one of the criteria listed above. And while I do understand everyone is different, I just fail to see why anyone introduces something as small as a few logs they don't like into the great sport that is geocaching.

 

Keep it fun guys. It doesn't need all this type possessiveness & bickering.

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From a newbie.

 

This one has an easy answer...."DON'T DELETE LOGS!!" If they have obvious things wrong...hints, spoilers, hate-speech, curse-words, etc, then it's obviously fine. I would however, if it were me, save a copy of what I deleted, in case it ever came back to me...."Why did you delete this person's log?" Right here!!

 

I am a newbie, but I do have a few caches out, some waiting for approval. If you write "THX" in your log, oh well.....hopefully the next person will do a bit better. But I bet that you WON'T write just "THX", because my hides always have a bit of interesting "something" associated with them.

 

Think of it this way. Several cachers like the attitude, "This cache belongs to ME!! So I'll do what I want with it!" Well, the person who looked up your cache, downloaded the info, traveled to the site, climbed the hill, found the container, signed the paper, carefully re-hid the cache, went home, logged in, found your cache, reported his find, & made a note of it......he also owns something....the words that he used in his log.

 

Why SHOULD you delete them?? I won't...never will, regardless of how short it is, unless it falls under one of the criteria listed above. And while I do understand everyone is different, I just fail to see why anyone introduces something as small as a few logs they don't like into the great sport that is geocaching.

 

Keep it fun guys. It doesn't need all this type possessiveness & bickering.

 

Not to mention that deleting a log is the quickest way to make someone angry enough to make the cache disappear. :P

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This one has an easy answer...."DON'T DELETE LOGS!!" If they have obvious things wrong...hints, spoilers, .....

 

I just encrypt spoiler posts. If people want to read them, so be it. But I try to avoid ruining it for those who like the surprise.

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This one has an easy answer...."DON'T DELETE LOGS!!" If they have obvious things wrong...hints, spoilers, .....

 

I just encrypt spoiler posts. If people want to read them, so be it. But I try to avoid ruining it for those who like the surprise.

 

Yeah, that is true. Musta been tired when I wrote that, because I've done the same identical thing. It warns you right above the comments....MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS. If a person doesnt want to be spoiled, he shouldn't read below that. As far as myself caring if mild spoilers are included in the comments to my caches, doesn't concern me greatly. Sure, I wouldn't want something like, "Placing that flm canister inside a fake rock, right there in front of the hollow log by the giant pine tree behind the old junk car" has crossed the line....but I rarely see anyone get THAT descriptive anyway.

 

But yeah, since GC already warns people that spoilers might be included in the comments, I don't really see why CO's need to tell everyone they will delete logs containing them. Unless of course, it's like the extreme example I just gave. If someone WANTS to cheat, they are going to find a way to do it regardless of how you try to stop them. Those who want to find caches with absolutely no outside help will usually do it that way too.

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