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Don't use my cache for your challenge!


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However, I don't place caches just to be found. I placed them to be enjoyed. Minor, but important, difference.

 

Here's the thing, like BS, I place caches to be found and enjoyed. I don't like when one of our caches is simply a tick on some list. Many of the folks who pursue challenge caches treat caches as simply a stepping stone to something else. I personally feel walked on. Not a feeling I like. I know this feeling because for a long time we had the only cache on one page of the SC Delorme Challenge. (Fortunately someone came along and placed a few easier caches. Now the visits are back down to the previous levels.)

 

 

I am not sure I understand how you are thinking about this. We're pretty new but we understand ourselves well enough to know that we don't enjoy ticking up high numbers of finds (too hard to log and not enough hiking). But we like a bit of a challenge. High difficulty caches, puzzle caches, difficult terrain all provide some challenge for us and we like that.

 

One other thing we enjoy is exploration, so when we noticed that we could get a cute little badge for completing the "Well-Rounded Cacher" challenge, we decided to start doing it. It requires that we get one cache from each difficulty/terrain combination and that we get one cache of each type.

 

About a week ago we visited our first earthcache. I'd feared that earthcaches would be dreadfully boring and tedious, but I was wrong. This was one of the most enjoyable caches I'd ever visited. It was simply beautiful and the logging requirements had us splashing in the stream and balancing on rocks. We emerged in a high state of giggles.

 

Had we not been engaged in this challenge, we never would have tried this cache and we never would have known what we were missing.

 

I don't think you can predict what people will enjoy. All the recent research indicates that we are really bad at predicting what our future selves will like, much less what some other person will like. Given that, isn't it best to have ways of encouraging people to get outside of their own small world to try new things and find new things to enjoy? Isn't that what challenges are ultimately for?

 

If you'd been the owner of that earthcache we enjoyed so much, would you resent the fact that we were only trying earthcaches because of the challenge? Does it diminish your enjoyment in our enjoyment of your cache? If it does, can you explain why that would be the case? I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

 

Carolyn

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If the bookmark list on their cache page is what is bothersome there are other ways to send a list of the caches you want to count for a challenge. Also why not keep your bookmark list private until you are done, send the challenge cache owner a message and make the list public for a short period of time?

 

Personally I like to look at bookmark lists for interesting caches and the "My FTF" or "My Milestone caches" list are just clutter. But I wouldn't delete a find because of it.

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However, I don't place caches just to be found. I placed them to be enjoyed. Minor, but important, difference.

 

 

If you'd been the owner of that earthcache we enjoyed so much, would you resent the fact that we were only trying earthcaches because of the challenge? Does it diminish your enjoyment in our enjoyment of your cache? If it does, can you explain why that would be the case? I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

 

Carolyn

I don't get it either. Some people get a burr in their shorts and have to make everyone suffer along with them.

 

Personally, you want to bookmark my caches, go for it. If you use them for a stepping stone... why should I care? I don't really care how you decide to spend your caching time, you enjoy the challenge, by proxy you enjoy the cache - the caching experiance. If you don't enjoy it, quit. If you can't let someone else enjoy it... Quit. Simple.

 

It's a personal choice. I enjoy big caching runs and going for the great hike. It all depends on my mood. I've done a few challenges and am working on the Oregon Delorme challenge too. I will go out, enjoy the caches and complete the challenge. Who does that hurt?

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Many of the folks who pursue challenge caches treat caches as simply a stepping stone to something else. I personally feel walked on. Not a feeling I like. I know this feeling because for a long time we had the only cache on one page of the SC Delorme Challenge.

 

I suspect this may be the issue for the cache owner referenced in the original post. I agree, it is annoying, particularly when logs come in with, "needed this for the xxxx Challenge, thanks". This goes beyond the public bookmarked lists and cuts to the heart of why a cache owner places a cache.... It isn't so the cache seeker can create a particular finds list.

 

However, the challenge got some cachers to your hide who would not otherwise have done it - it may have shown some of them a side of geocaching that they hadn't considered. Per Steve&GeoCarolyn post above mine about finding an Earthcache.

 

I own a couple of 'yak caches in a state park where canoe rentals are reasonably priced. I've seen some logs come in on those where it's clear that the finders used my terrain 5 caches for a Fizzy Challenge. They wouldn't have gotten themselves out in a canoe otherwise. Their logs are about the expense, the "need" for the terrain 5 - but they still actually experienced the river and the find. I can live with that.

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Why would any cache owner be bothered by bookmarks? Any cache page only shows the first... what is it? two or three. After that there's the link to show the rest. Nothing "cluttered" about it. I have a strong dislike of the so-called "challenge" caches, but I sure wouldn't handle it that way!

 

I have a bookmark called "Lame Caches Not Worth Finding". It is a private list but I imagine a CO would not be too happy if that showed up on his page.

Phew!!! That's not me on the list... :laughing:

 

Sadly the list is growing exponentially. Way too many lame caches (drive ups etc.) being published these days. Not worth the gas to go get them. The Ignore button is a great invention.

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Had the challenge cache owner showed a tad of respect and asked and honored whatever answer came out of that, this petty problem would not exist.

 

Petty problem or petty cache owner? I think the latter. I place my caches to be found. The reason people choose my to find my caches is really none of my business.

 

If someone places logging restrictions on his cache (other than challenge caches), it's an ALR and no longer allowed. End of story.

 

What is the difference between logging his cache for a challange or logging it by a radius slave expanding his radius. It is realy no different, except the challange is a public goal, and the radius is a private goal.

 

I have never done a challange cache (never seen one). I think they would be cool. Not sure why people hate them. I can see if you don't like them so don't do them, or ignor them, but hate them. What difference is it to you if there is a challange cache.

 

I recenly posted a challange on the local forum to park at a certain location, then run and find 2 caches, and get back in less than 15min. I never asked the cache owners, but it never crossed my mind that they may care. So far no one has attemped the challange so I guess no harm done. I have thought of making a callange cache using this (without the time limit, just requiring to post the time), but I guess I should ask the cache owners first.

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I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

Yes. We own a few challenging caches. We don't own a challenge cache. There are major differences between the two.

 

A challenging cache is just that. You might have to figure out a puzzle, climb a tree, hike a distance, whatever. The point is the cache owner provides the challenge and it is self contained.

 

A challenge cache is a cache where you have to fulfill certain criteria before you can "legally" find and log it. The original challenge cache was the Delorme Challenge. You had to have found a cache on each of the pages of that state's Delorme map book before you were able to get the coordinates to the final cache. It's kind of like a series bonus, but you're building it off other people's caches.

 

And that's the rub. A challenge cache uses other peoples' caches. A finder who finds one of our caches to fulfill a challenge's criteria is not finding our cache because they want to experience our cache, but to be able to legally log someone else's cache. In this respect I find that a bit rude as it's pretty much saying that the only thing they cared about our cache is they're that much closer to logging someone else's cache. Same with saying they only found our cache for the smilie it provides and nothing more.

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I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

Yes. We own a few challenging caches. We don't own a challenge cache. There are major differences between the two.

 

A challenging cache is just that. You might have to figure out a puzzle, climb a tree, hike a distance, whatever. The point is the cache owner provides the challenge and it is self contained.

 

A challenge cache is a cache where you have to fulfill certain criteria before you can "legally" find and log it. The original challenge cache was the Delorme Challenge. You had to have found a cache on each of the pages of that state's Delorme map book before you were able to get the coordinates to the final cache. It's kind of like a series bonus, but you're building it off other people's caches.

 

And that's the rub. A challenge cache uses other peoples' caches. A finder who finds one of our caches to fulfill a challenge's criteria is not finding our cache because they want to experience our cache, but to be able to legally log someone else's cache. In this respect I find that a bit rude as it's pretty much saying that the only thing they cared about our cache is they're that much closer to logging someone else's cache. Same with saying they only found our cache for the smilie it provides and nothing more.

I wonder how many come for the challenge and love the view?

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... In this respect I find that a bit rude as it's pretty much saying that the only thing they cared about our cache is they're that much closer to logging someone else's cache. Same with saying they only found our cache for the smilie it provides and nothing more.

 

As you can tell from my signature, I am a radius slave. There are caches around here that I would never search for, exept that I got to expand my radius. Let's face it, the lame caches would never be found if it worn't for these kinds of things (find count, radius, chalange caches etc.). Hmm... that makes me think. Maybe we should ban this behaviour. Then if the lame caches are never found, hiders will stop hiding lame caches.

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A finder who finds one of our caches to fulfill a challenge's criteria is not finding our cache because they want to experience our cache, but to be able to legally log someone else's cache. In this respect I find that a bit rude as it's pretty much saying that the only thing they cared about our cache is they're that much closer to logging someone else's cache.

 

I respectfully disagree. When I did my first challenge, the Washington DeLorme, I used it as an opportunity to learn more about my adopted home. It was my first time to travel the entire state, and whenever possible, I sought out caches that showed me something interesting (historical, scenic, unusual, clever hides), not just grab-'n-gos. When I traveled the state again for the WA County Challenge, I picked up caches in areas that had piqued my interest but that I didn't get to on the first go-round. Those two challenges, along with the WA Well-Rounded (Fizzy) Challenge, WA History Challenge (caches placed during the first year of geocaching), WA Fire Lookout Challenge, and WA Earthcache Challenge, induced me to travel the state (repeatedly), showed me many (many!) cool things, and taught me so much - things I might never have seen or learned without the challenges to prod me to seek out adventures in myriad parts of the state. I am grateful to the challenge owners for creating them and seducing me into all those road trips. :laughing:

 

I know I'm not the only one who uses challenge caches as an "excuse" to travel and learn. Sure, there are those who are "just about the numbers," but from the find logs I read for the above-mentioned challenges, they are in the minority, at least in Washington State. For a lot of us, it's about the journey - the challenge just spurs us on, and claiming the find is icing on the cake.

Edited by hydnsek
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I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

Yes. We own a few challenging caches. We don't own a challenge cache. There are major differences between the two.

 

A challenging cache is just that. You might have to figure out a puzzle, climb a tree, hike a distance, whatever. The point is the cache owner provides the challenge and it is self contained.

 

A challenge cache is a cache where you have to fulfill certain criteria before you can "legally" find and log it. The original challenge cache was the Delorme Challenge. You had to have found a cache on each of the pages of that state's Delorme map book before you were able to get the coordinates to the final cache. It's kind of like a series bonus, but you're building it off other people's caches.

 

And that's the rub. A challenge cache uses other peoples' caches. A finder who finds one of our caches to fulfill a challenge's criteria is not finding our cache because they want to experience our cache, but to be able to legally log someone else's cache. In this respect I find that a bit rude as it's pretty much saying that the only thing they cared about our cache is they're that much closer to logging someone else's cache. Same with saying they only found our cache for the smilie it provides and nothing more.

 

"In this respect I find that a bit rude as it's pretty much saying that the only thing they cared about our cache is they're that much closer to logging someone else's cache. Same with saying they only found our cache for the smilie it provides and nothing more."

 

We couldn't agree more.

What is more rude/silly is a geocacher placing a challenge cache that they have never fulfilled and probably could never fulfill! At least if you are going to own challenge cache set the example of being able to complete it. I do truly admire any geocacher who does complete a challenge cache but face it, for some, not all, the placing of the challenge and/or meeting the challenge is just another numbers quest which has very little to do with the enjoyment of geocaching! :laughing:

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I know I'm not the only one who uses challenge caches as an "excuse" to travel and learn. Sure, there are those who are "just about the numbers," but from the find logs I read for the above-mentioned challenges, they are in the minority, at least in Washington State. For a lot of us, it's about the journey - the challenge just spurs us on, and claiming the find is icing on the cake.

From the logs you read on the challenge pages, maybe. On the caches they used as a stepping stone, not so much.

 

The logs I don't care for are the "number 14 of 34 for the day," "found for page 48 of the Delorme challenge," "found for the County Challenge fulfillment," etc. etc. Yep, good to know the only reason someone found our cache is because they're only interested in "bigger and better things."

 

If someone enjoyed my cache if they had otherwise not hunted, then fine, I'd like to hear it. If it's just an excuse to further some other goal, I'd prefer if you just skipped it.

 

In the beginning of our geocaching experience we were the type who was always simply after the next cache. It was soon that I got tired of missing out on a lot of what was actually offered in the hunt. We slowed down to enjoy ourselves. I don't care for goals, little yellow faces, or challenges. I focus on the individual cache. I ask myself "was that cache worth it?"

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I know I'm not the only one who uses challenge caches as an "excuse" to travel and learn. Sure, there are those who are "just about the numbers," but from the find logs I read for the above-mentioned challenges, they are in the minority, at least in Washington State. For a lot of us, it's about the journey - the challenge just spurs us on, and claiming the find is icing on the cake.

From the logs you read on the challenge pages, maybe. On the caches they used as a stepping stone, not so much.

 

The logs I don't care for are the "number 14 of 34 for the day," "found for page 48 of the Delorme challenge," "found for the County Challenge fulfillment," etc. etc. Yep, good to know the only reason someone found our cache is because they're only interested in "bigger and better things."

 

If someone enjoyed my cache if they had otherwise not hunted, then fine, I'd like to hear it. If it's just an excuse to further some other goal, I'd prefer if you just skipped it.

 

In the beginning of our geocaching experience we were the type who was always simply after the next cache. It was soon that I got tired of missing out on a lot of what was actually offered in the hunt. We slowed down to enjoy ourselves. I don't care for goals, little yellow faces, or challenges. I focus on the individual cache. I ask myself "was that cache worth it?"

I've never seen a "Found for X challenge" log on one of my caches. I guess mine aren't convenient enough. Perhaps I should hide one at the interstate off ramp. The logs that I see that say "number 14 of 34 for the day," Are usually a part of a longer log. I take it as just a book keeping notation. A way for the log writer to look back and say "Hey, that was the day we got our personal best numbers run." or such. I think it would be rude if that was the whole log, on par with the dreaded TNLNSL.

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For those of you that don't like challenge caches... In remarkes to the DeLorme, County, Interstate challenges... you don't know what your (sic) missing. I've been to many places in my state because of them that I would have never seen/discovered if it wasn't for the challenge and geocaching.

 

i don't know what i'm missing?

 

are we assuming now that because i have done a thing and don't like it that i simply don't know how swell it is?

 

I'm not assuming you did it! And if you have completed them (DeLorme/county challenge); how can a cacher not have liked it? Isn't the logist of caching meeting interesting people, seeing interesting places and things?

 

Besides, my point was more directed to those that haven't done it.

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Personally I think challenge caches should have been banned with ALR's and instead this site (or another site) deveoped caching achievment badges that just show up in your profile automaticly if you meet the challenge (whatever it is). Then it would just be built into the system. I'm not sure if it would solve the problem but I do think it would make it less likely to crop up.
I tend to agree. I kinda regret posting the challenge caches that I own and have considered archiving them. I had no idea they'd be so popular though, so there would be some backlash if I nuked them.

Yep, any time one bans an entire group of somethings and then makes certain exceptions there's going to be a problem. ALRs and challenge caches. Just like virts and Earth Caches.

 

Had the challenge cache owner showed a tad of respect and asked and honored whatever answer came out of that, this petty problem would not exist.
Petty problem or petty cache owner? I think the latter. I place my caches to be found. The reason people choose my to find my caches is really none of my business.

 

If someone places logging restrictions on his cache (other than challenge caches), it's an ALR and no longer allowed. End of story.

I tend to agree. If the logbook is signed, it's a find with few exceptions.

 

However, I don't place caches just to be found. I placed them to be enjoyed. Minor, but important, difference.

 

Here's the thing, like BS, I place caches to be found and enjoyed. I don't like when one of our caches is simply a tick on some list. Many of the folks who pursue challenge caches treat caches as simply a stepping stone to something else. I personally feel walked on. Not a feeling I like. I know this feeling because for a long time we had the only cache on one page of the SC Delorme Challenge. (Fortunately someone came along and placed a few easier caches. Now the visits are back down to the previous levels.)

 

I felt this way the first time I heard about cache machines. I didn't like the idea of mass caching, but the reason I placed the restriction on our caches against cache machines is many of our caches are in areas that are slightly sensitive. They can handle light traffic, but not the kind that a cache machine would produce.

 

So, just like the organizers of cache machines, a challenge cache owner should respect the wishes of cache owners to not include their caches in challenges. It would be a lot easier for the challenge owner to issue that challenge than the cache owner to enforce the restriction. (Which he could no longer do anyway without simply archiving the cache.)

 

The only challenge I did the above infraction of "just a stepping stone" was an ABC challenge, which I admit wasn't as exciting and rewarding as touring our state for the DeLorme and county challenges.

 

When it comes to the other 2 challenges I'm working on, DeLorme/County, I look for interesting places or highly rated caches. If I'm going to drive several hundred miles I want to log a cache that is worth the trip. So in my case the cache owner is rewarded/benefits from the challenge because we seek out his cache because of the great job he/she did placing it.

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For those of you that don't like challenge caches... In remarkes to the DeLorme, County, Interstate challenges... you don't know what your (sic) missing. I've been to many places in my state because of them that I would have never seen/discovered if it wasn't for the challenge and geocaching.

 

i don't know what i'm missing?

 

are we assuming now that because i have done a thing and don't like it that i simply don't know how swell it is?

 

I'm not assuming you did it! And if you have completed them (DeLorme/county challenge); how can a cacher not have liked it? Isn't the logist of caching meeting interesting people, seeing interesting places and things?

 

Besides, my point was more directed to those that haven't done it.

 

i didn't think the delorme challenge was especially worth my time, and i won't go out of my way to complete another.

 

i prefer to find caches for the sake of finding caches and not for the sake of racking up stats for other caches.

 

you did not say "for those of you that haven't done them, you don't know what you're missing"; what you said was:

 

For those of you that don't like challenge caches... In remarkes(sic) to the DeLorme, County, Interstate challenges... you don't know what your (sic) missing.

 

i'm not missing them. i just don't like them.

 

i see them as a major cause of the deterioration of log quality. too many people were already posting logs that were entirely about number whoring (number 37 for me today! TFTC!) and now we have more cheesy logs from people who consider "got this square done" to be a reasonably good log.

 

if most of the logs on my caches were from people who are just stepping on my head to get to something more important, i'd retire all my caches.

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Wow, it seems like a lot of people are just a tad sensitive. "When you find my cache, it had better be the whole caching world and nothing else when you do it."

 

I have only done one challenge cache, and I enjoyed it quite well. However, I really enjoyed all the caches I did in order to qualify for that one.

 

If I have a little time to go looking for a cache, what difference does it make how I pick which ones I'm going to look for? I will still pick the kind I am in the mood for. It doesn't matter if it fits in with a challenge, or is just on the way to somewhere else I'm going.

 

The one problem I do see here is the rude logs, but you find that sometimes on all caches. I don't have a problem with someone mentioning a challenge cache, or how many caches they found in the day. However, that should not be the main thrust of the log. The log should mention how you enjoyed the cache, what happened on the way to the cache, maybe the weather or the view and, oh by the way this is for the XXXchallenge.

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i see them as a major cause of the deterioration of log quality. too many people were already posting logs that were entirely about number whoring (number 37 for me today! TFTC!) and now we have more cheesy logs from people who consider "got this square done" to be a reasonably good log.

 

if most of the logs on my caches were from people who are just stepping on my head to get to something more important, i'd retire all my caches.

 

You seem to laboring under the impression that the logs people write for your caches are for you. Did you ever stop to think that maybe they write the logs for themselves? And if you accept that they might be writing the logs for themselves, then they are stepping on your head to get something else and you might as well go do your geocide.

 

Jim

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Why do people cache? Probably as many reasons as there are cachers.

We currently are involved in three challenge caches here in NJ. Our state has long had a north/south divide politically, culturally and geographically. A while back a central section became part of the state's awareness.

 

Central Jersey Geocachers started a Central Jersey Checkpoint Challenge. Soon that spread to South Jersey Checkpoint Challenge and then to North Jersey Checkpoint Challenge. Search for keywords, CJCC, SJCC or NJCC to see examples.

 

Each group had volunteers place a cache with a name matching a letter of the alphabet. Each group had a different theme for the alphabetic names. We are "crossing over" into other parts of the state to complete each of the three challenges. We have met cachers face to face on the trail and at informal social events as we planned the series. We might not have met these nice folks otherwise. South Jersey (our section) is relatively flat. I think the highest point in our county is about 30 feet. Central and North Jersey are quite different. We've learned that a terrain of three in North Jersey might be a six at home.

 

We cache to hike. We cache to eat. We cache for the fun of socializing with other folks who like to cache. We cache because our Elkhound likes to get outside, too.

 

All of the caches in these challenges, a total of 82 caches with not one micro or skirt lifter, are there for anyone to find whether that cacher plans on fulfilling the challenge requirements or not.

 

Is this a game open to the public, or is it a game open only to other cachers with similar goals to a particular cacher who only wants people who "appreciate" the cache in the same manner as the cacher who hid the cache?

 

I don't really understand the fuss.

Edited by wigoweb
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We cache to hike. We cache to eat. We cache for the fun of socializing with other folks who like to cache. We cache because our Elkhound likes to get outside, too.

 

You cache to eat??? I am so clearly doing this wrong. On our cache hikes there is a complete dearth of food (other than a few emergency Clif bars). Is there a gourmet set of caches somewhere? I am so onboard with that idea!!! Cache to eat, it definitely has possibilities in the Carolyn playbook (though probably not the Steve playbook, alas).

 

Carolyn

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I'm surprised that some cache owners feel that seeking and finding a particular cache because of its merits, and also using that cache as part of a subsequent challenge cache, are mutually exclusive. As others have pointed out, not so!

 

Case in point: It took us a long time to complete the South Carolina Delorme challenge. It never occurred to us that any of the cache owners whose caches we used for this challenge would resent being included in our bookmark. Here is an excerpt from our log entry (bolding added):

 

"What an amazing challenge and series of caches to get to this final cache! We got to see parts of the state that we had never thought of visiting before. The variation and distinctive character of the different regions of South Carolina are worth the miles. Delorme Gazetteers were part of our travel gear before we even heard of geocaching and we loved the opportunity to pour over them even more. Setting up routes to catch the corner of this zone or that zone and still find worthwhile caches and destinations was a fun and interesting exercise. From the beautiful mountain vistas to the sailboats and dolphins in Charleston Harbor it was a great adventure. We worked on this series while doing other things and it took us over a year so some of our favorites are now archived (most memorably the night cache Vulchers are Watching and the bushwacking adventure of the original 'Gator Hole on Hilton Head Island)... "

 

For a short time, we had the only active cache in one of the Delorme zones and we were actually very happy when cachers found our cache and said they were seeking it for the challenge. In the process they got to discover a well-maintained county boat ramp on the beautiful Savannah River.

 

Bean

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You seem to laboring under the impression that the logs people write for your caches are for you. Did you ever stop to think that maybe they write the logs for themselves? And if you accept that they might be writing the logs for themselves, then they are stepping on your head to get something else and you might as well go do your geocide.

 

Jim

 

i think for it to be a geocide, i have to quit caching. i place caches for my own enjoyment, and my enjoyment of a cache is in the thought that someone finding it might enjoy the cache itself. if i am placing caches for the sole purpose of someone racking up numbers or filling up all their little boxes, i'm not interested in providing a venue for that.

 

i would still very happily go about finding other people's caches and writing logs about those.

 

my neighbor allows me to keep a cache on his front lawn because he likes it when people come and look at his rock wall and he especially likes it when they sit in his swing under the apple tree and look at his view.

 

he would not have been interested at all to host a checkpoint for people to race through and check a box off their list.

 

i take the time to write a decent account of the caches that i find and (i believe i said this before) i prefer to find caches for their own sake. people who use their number whoring or challenge caching as excuses to write lame logs are on the same level as people who toss a gladware behind the dumpster at every walmart and call it a cache.

 

if they're writing logs purely for themselves, why bother to post online at all? you can keep track of your own little count yourself. it's people's need to show off their numbers, counts and merit badges for everyone else that make them post online and while they're at it, how about lifting their head up out of their PDA for long enough to see the cache?

 

truthfully? i quit reading most of the logs on my caches long ago. i just don't care that suzy q is knocking off towns for her checklist, nor do i care to read thoughtless cut-and-pastes or strings of acronyms from people who want to give an impression of graciousness and yet can't be bothered to type out "thanks."

 

it used to be that although most logs weren't great literary works, the majority of them at least had something to say. when i see logs that seem to be about somebody's numbers instead of a cache, i usually think that this person has simply found a new and "modren" substitute for comparing the size of his squishy bits with those of his neighbors.

 

writing logs that are limited in content to documenting your challenge are to my mind the equivalent of showing up to conduct the symphony with a corner of your dress shirt sticking out your open fly. it is like performing with your dampit still in the f-holes, or showing up to a race in your dirty workout clothes.

 

to be certain, i have bookmarks of caches that go with challenges (while i am no longer actively seeking to complete challenges, i will finish one if i happen to do it in the course of more important things, like caching for caching's sake), i do not make them public. neither do i write logs bragging on my find count, my status in a challenge, my prowess as a first finder, or excuses why i'm simply too busy to write a decent log.

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It's people's need to show off their numbers, counts and merit badges for everyone else that make them post online

Actually, for just about every one I've ever met playing this game, logging on line satisfies two needs, not one.

1 ) It creates a record of each find.

2 ) It offers a venue to praise the cache owner for their placement.

While there are a percentage of cachers who only utilize the online logging for the reason you cited, my experience tells me this percentage is quite small.

Personally, I have never used my online logs to "show off" my numbers, counts or merit badges.

(We get merit badges?) :D

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i take the time to write a decent account of the caches that i find and (i believe i said this before) i prefer to find caches for their own sake. people who use their number whoring or challenge caching as excuses to write lame logs are on the same level as people who toss a gladware behind the dumpster at every walmart and call it a cache.

 

But isn't that just it? It is not the challenges that cause people to write poorly or meagerly. It is the personality of those who would rather stick a fork in their eye than write a good log. They will not be writing good or lengthy logs whether they are doing a challenge or not. To blame this on the challenges is short-sighted, I think. Challenges are just a way to organize the cache hunt. They don't force anyone to write badly or rudely.

 

As to writing for oneself, I'm pretty much there. I write because I love to write and because I want to communicate the fun of what I am doing to the person who introduced me to geocaching. I understand that these logs serve as a kind of thank you note to the owner and I try to do that as well. But if I hated writing with a shining purple passion, I wouldn't be writing longish logs.

 

The idea promulgated on these boards that I should be writing for the cache owner and only the cache owner has given me pause at times and I've thought that perhaps I should just set up a blog and not write cache logs at all because I am so clearly not writing primarily for the cache owner. But then who really wins with that decision? I don't win. The cache owner doesn't win if I take my logs elsewhere. My friend has to seek out my blog to read what I'm writing (though he probably wouldn't mind). Any one who might enjoy my photos or my logs doesn't win if I switch to a blog instead of logging my finds and DNFs because of this.

 

And yet every time one of the cache owners here soberly explains to someone that finders should be writing their logs focusing on what pleases the cache owner I think about setting up that blog again. (My beloved says "Stay off the forum and the problem is solved.") My guess is that I'm not the only one intimidated by such demands. I think this sort of thing is counter-productive to producing good logs. At least it is for me.

 

Carolyn

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Why do people cache? Probably as many reasons as there are cachers.

We currently are involved in three challenge caches here in NJ. Our state has long had a north/south divide politically, culturally and geographically. A while back a central section became part of the state's awareness.

 

Central Jersey Geocachers started a Central Jersey Checkpoint Challenge. Soon that spread to South Jersey Checkpoint Challenge and then to North Jersey Checkpoint Challenge. Search for keywords, CJCC, SJCC or NJCC to see examples.

 

And all this time I thought it was East Jersey vs. West Jersey! (With the dividing line being the Ocean/Burlington County line - Obfuscated by the incorporation of Mercer County, and the moving of Little Egg Harbor from Burlington to Ocean.) But, I digress. You either root for New York teams, or Philadephia teams. There is no central ground!

Proud owner of NJCC: Turquino!

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i didn't think the delorme challenge was especially worth my time, and i won't go out of my way to complete another.

 

i prefer to find caches for the sake of finding caches and not for the sake of racking up stats for other caches.

 

you did not say "for those of you that haven't done them, you don't know what you're missing"; what you said was:

 

For those of you that don't like challenge caches... In remarkes(sic) to the DeLorme, County, Interstate challenges... you don't know what your (sic) missing.

 

i'm not missing them. i just don't like them.

 

i see them as a major cause of the deterioration of log quality. too many people were already posting logs that were entirely about number whoring (number 37 for me today! TFTC!) and now we have more cheesy logs from people who consider "got this square done" to be a reasonably good log.

 

if most of the logs on my caches were from people who are just stepping on my head to get to something more important, i'd retire all my caches.

 

Hmm... Each to his/her own. And Geocaching provides oportunities for almost everyone to find caches that they enjoy. I have finished both the county challenge and DeLorme Challenge for New Jersey, and I enjoyed them both! And I enjoyed most of the caches. They challenges brought us to place that I would not otherwise have visitied! Yes, I probably did log: Page 71 for the DeLorme Challenge. But I am also honored when someone from Central Joisey logs: Hudson County find! In no way do I find it degrading. I find it an honor.

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So how long before somebody creates a challenge cache in which you have to find all of the caches that have been placed by a cacher like flask who does not want their caches to be part of a challenge cache.

 

i don't mind at all if they use my caches as part of their challenge; you read me wrong.

 

what i care about is that i don't want the proliferation of challenge cache whores to become the sole reason for visiting my caches.

 

i am always pleased when someone visits one of my caches and takes the time to make a few comments about it regardless of whether or not it fulfills a portion of their challenge.

 

the fact that you're too terribly busy finding challenge caches does not excuse you from writing a log.

 

it's like self-important twits making outgoing calls from live theater performances: nobody but you is impressed by how busy you are. it don't gotta be fancy, but a log consisting entirely of you checking off that box or advertising your fabulous find count burns my butt.

 

i'm going to cite this cache as an example; i believe that almost every log on this particular cache (including mine) is the result of someone working toward a challenge.

 

and yet none of the logs suck.

 

why is that?

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When I work on a challenge, I'm usually traveling a lot farther than I would be in my daily caching, so I'm careful to pick caches I really think I'd enjoy for that challenge. Hikes, boat caches, mountains.

 

But in day-to-day caching, I just find whatever's in the vicinity of my other plans for that day. Micros, junk caches, whatever.

 

So... which group would you rather your cache be in?

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However, I don't place caches just to be found. I placed them to be enjoyed. Minor, but important, difference.

 

 

If you'd been the owner of that earthcache we enjoyed so much, would you resent the fact that we were only trying earthcaches because of the challenge? Does it diminish your enjoyment in our enjoyment of your cache? If it does, can you explain why that would be the case? I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

 

Carolyn

I don't get it either. Some people get a burr in their shorts and have to make everyone suffer along with them.

 

Personally, you want to bookmark my caches, go for it. If you use them for a stepping stone... why should I care? I don't really care how you decide to spend your caching time, you enjoy the challenge, by proxy you enjoy the cache - the caching experiance. If you don't enjoy it, quit. If you can't let someone else enjoy it... Quit. Simple.

 

It's a personal choice. I enjoy big caching runs and going for the great hike. It all depends on my mood. I've done a few challenges and am working on the Oregon Delorme challenge too. I will go out, enjoy the caches and complete the challenge. Who does that hurt?

 

Rerverse it. What does it hurt to honor anothers wishes? It doesn't. So do so when the wish causes no harm.

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Had the challenge cache owner showed a tad of respect and asked and honored whatever answer came out of that, this petty problem would not exist.

 

Petty problem or petty cache owner? I think the latter. I place my caches to be found. The reason people choose my to find my caches is really none of my business.

 

If someone places logging restrictions on his cache (other than challenge caches), it's an ALR and no longer allowed. End of story.

 

Why they choose to find your cache may not be your concern, however everthing else about the find is your concern thogh you may choose not to care. Apathy doesn't seem to suit you.

 

As for petty. Maybe so. A finder insisting on not honoring the owners whishes is being both betty and disrespectful.

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Why would any cache owner be bothered by bookmarks? Any cache page only shows the first... what is it? two or three. After that there's the link to show the rest. Nothing "cluttered" about it. I have a strong dislike of the so-called "challenge" caches, but I sure wouldn't handle it that way!

 

I have a bookmark called "Lame Caches Not Worth Finding". It is a private list but I imagine a CO would not be too happy if that showed up on his page.

Phew!!! That's not me on the list... :D

 

Sadly the list is growing exponentially. Way too many lame caches (drive ups etc.) being published these days. Not worth the gas to go get them. The Ignore button is a great invention.

I can even agree with the last part of the quote. To add fuel, I have some lame caches and admit it. When I first started I got caught up in the "hide it and they will come" mentality. Lately I have begun archiving the lame ones when they come up missing. If I replace them, it is with much more thought. That's a big if... But the numbers hounds (yes I consider myself one) appreciate them. Lame or not, they get me out of the house.

 

There was a local cacher who set up a sock puppet account called "annoyedcacher" and I was third on the top ten list of hated cachers in the area. What surprised me was I had only been caching for a few months, others for years. Some of the other cachers were known for good hides; yes some were lame, but we all grow as we mature in our hides. Just as I have been complimented on some of my hides and derided for others. I like to tell people they are more than welcome to click ignore on my caches. It does not break my heart.

 

Not all of our hides will please all of the people all the time, I'm OK with that - Just as I'm OK that not all the hides I go after will be enjoyable. But I don't know until I get there. Life's a bummer.

 

But I try to write oriinal logs on my finds and avoid the 1 of xx ones. Just a little anicdode about chasing the container down the steem roadside embankment after I dropped it and had to recover - how much pain and suffering I went through for my clumsiness - or how a skunk chased me - or how fun the drive was - or posting a note that the area was closed and will try again on my way through... If I work on a challenge, I might post a note about the challenge and how tough it was and how their cache got me into an area I haven't seen before or other uniquness about it...

 

This thread does make us a little more aware of our logging habits and should make us a little more sensitive to the hider. Or one whould hope.

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....For those of you that don't like challenge caches... In remarkes to the DeLorme, County, Interstate challenges... you don't know what your missing. I've been to many places in my state because of them that I would have never seen/discovered if it wasn't for the challenge and geocaching.

 

I don't like challenge caches. They banned ALR's then had to allow Challenge caches even though they are ALR's. Then it was decided that challenge cache owners could log their own challenge. WTF? If you need that many exceptions it's not worth having as a cache.

 

That said, I like the concept behind challenges. Call it cacher badges, awards or whatnot. Have them be automatic. Just meet the criteria and *poof* they just appear in your profile. Of course this wouldn't be easy to program, but it would serve our needs far better overall.

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However, I don't place caches just to be found. I placed them to be enjoyed. Minor, but important, difference.

 

 

If you'd been the owner of that earthcache we enjoyed so much, would you resent the fact that we were only trying earthcaches because of the challenge? Does it diminish your enjoyment in our enjoyment of your cache? If it does, can you explain why that would be the case? I'm kind of missing something here, I think.

 

Carolyn

I don't get it either. Some people get a burr in their shorts and have to make everyone suffer along with them.

 

Personally, you want to bookmark my caches, go for it. If you use them for a stepping stone... why should I care? I don't really care how you decide to spend your caching time, you enjoy the challenge, by proxy you enjoy the cache - the caching experiance. If you don't enjoy it, quit. If you can't let someone else enjoy it... Quit. Simple.

 

It's a personal choice. I enjoy big caching runs and going for the great hike. It all depends on my mood. I've done a few challenges and am working on the Oregon Delorme challenge too. I will go out, enjoy the caches and complete the challenge. Who does that hurt?

 

Rerverse it. What does it hurt to honor anothers wishes? It doesn't. So do so when the wish causes no harm.

If they put restrictions on logging a cache, it's now an ALR, period.

 

OK, so try this: I download caches in a given area and go hunt them without reading the description. I log them and am unaware of the request until the CO delets them. Should I be penalized because I hunt caches blind? Comes back to the ALR question

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So how long before somebody creates a challenge cache in which you have to find all of the caches that have been placed by a cacher like flask who does not want their caches to be part of a challenge cache.

 

 

I kind of have a personal challenge of that kind. It's caches of a friend that introduced me to caching.

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Why would any cache owner be bothered by bookmarks? Any cache page only shows the first... what is it? two or three. After that there's the link to show the rest. Nothing "cluttered" about it. I have a strong dislike of the so-called "challenge" caches, but I sure wouldn't handle it that way!

 

I have a bookmark called "Lame Caches Not Worth Finding". It is a private list but I imagine a CO would not be too happy if that showed up on his page.

Phew!!! That's not me on the list... :D

 

Sadly the list is growing exponentially. Way too many lame caches (drive ups etc.) being published these days. Not worth the gas to go get them. The Ignore button is a great invention.

 

This thread does make us a little more aware of our logging habits and should make us a little more sensitive to the hider. Or one whould hope.

 

 

Roger that!! I logged a few caches today from yesterdays caching and had this thread in the back of my mind. I haven't been one to log "TFTC!" and go on but this thread is a good reminder that logs are part of the enjoyment/payment of the hider.

Edited by The Ravens
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Then it was decided that challenge cache owners could log their own challenge. WTF?

 

Decided by whom? :D

Cache owners can log their own caches of any type. There's nothing different about challenge caches.

 

I like the achievement icon idea. Pick a couple of the current challenge types that travel well, ie, can be done worldwide, like the Fizzy (all terrain and difficulty combos), and make that a website function. Then kill the challenge type altogether by lumping it (correctly, I agree) with ALR.

I don't foresee that happening, it would just take too much effort, time better spent working on other site functions.

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I don't get it. Why would anyone object to being part of a challenge? They put their cache out there to be found right, so why object when someone does find it? What's so different about a challenge than any other find? So you don't think people would write nice long descriptive stories- just a quick found it for the challenge , thanks.? My experience is people who write long descriptive stories will and those who don't won't.

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what i care about is that i don't want the proliferation of challenge cache whores to become the sole reason for visiting my caches.

 

i am always pleased when someone visits one of my caches and takes the time to make a few comments about it regardless of whether or not it fulfills a portion of their challenge.

 

As long as you (the collective you that don't like challenge logs) don't act on this that's fine. But the moment you do, well, that's as childish and unclassy as anything. It also would contradict all of the idiots that say we can play the game we want (until it crosses the line into the way WE like to play the game). Hypocrites.

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what i care about is that i don't want the proliferation of challenge cache whores to become the sole reason for visiting my caches.

 

i am always pleased when someone visits one of my caches and takes the time to make a few comments about it regardless of whether or not it fulfills a portion of their challenge.

 

As long as you (the collective you that don't like challenge logs) don't act on this that's fine. But the moment you do, well, that's as childish and unclassy as anything. It also would contradict all of the idiots that say we can play the game we want (until it crosses the line into the way WE like to play the game). Hypocrites.

 

why on earth should i not act on this?

 

i remember when everyone who played the game played it to go and see for themselves the bucket with the collection of stupid junk in it, just because they could. it wasn't about having bigger numbers or getting merit badges or frenetically checking stuff off of lists.

 

i loved playing just to play, and that's mostly how i still play it. when the greater part of the visits to my caches start to be about people ticking off numbers it will no longer be fun for me to own those caches, and that's why i'll archive them.

 

hypocrites?

 

let's see... you get to play the game the way YOU want, until it's at cross purposes with playing the game the way i want. why is that any different than me getting to play the game the way i want until it's at cross purposes with what you want?

 

at some point on that continuum somebody loses. why should it be me? i'll archive my caches and you can go find somebody else's to use for your number run. since you're too busy counting your numbers to look up and see what cache you're at, you won't even notice the difference.

 

i am under no obligation to continue to maintain caches i don't enjoy owning, same as i am under no obligation to find caches i don't enjoy finding. neither do i write log that i don't want to write, nor trade for items i don't want.

 

you may call me childish and unclassy all you want, but the bottom line is that if i'm not having fun, i'm not going to play.

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i am under no obligation to continue to maintain caches i don't enjoy owning, same as i am under no obligation to find caches i don't enjoy finding. neither do i write log that i don't want to write, nor trade for items i don't want.

 

you may call me childish and unclassy all you want, but the bottom line is that if i'm not having fun, i'm not going to play.

 

I have a question - would you be ok with a "challenge whore" who visited your cache because of the challenge, but actually left a thoughtful log? "Thanks for the cache. This helps with challenge X. When I started the hike we...(snip) On my way in I saw Y, I stumbled over Z. The cache brought me to a place I would have never seen before and I really appreciate the area.... etc etc etc.". Basically, the point I'm trying to get at is - what is the bigger problem challenges or poor log etiquette?

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I don't get it. Why would anyone object to being part of a challenge? They put their cache out there to be found right, so why object when someone does find it? What's so different about a challenge than any other find?

We know a lot of you (collective) don't get it. That's fine that you don't get it. Just accept that some of us don't like being used.

 

But in another attempt to explain it: many of us don't put out cache simply to be found, we put them out to be enjoyed. Because our efforts are sometimes boiled down to nothing but a stepping stone to a "bigger and better" cache, we feel efforts were not appreciated. For instance, one of our early hides is out int he middle of nowhere, but on a back country route from one point to another. It provides a view of a rediversion canal for a hydro power plant and possibly some wildlife. I'd call it a very average cache. For a long time it was the only cache on page 48 of the SC Delorme map. The only bookmarks on this cache are Delorme Challenges. The bookmarks don't bother me and most of the logs that mention the challenge don't bother me. The logs that bother me are the ones that seem to say the only thing they appreciate about the cache is the excuse to check off that page.

 

Also, here's another reason I know a lot of folks don't get the idea of it not being just about being found, but enjoyed. With the proliferation of trache where the only idea is just being found tells me that many folks really don't get it. If I only wanted my caches to simply be found then I could use this drawer full of film cans and I know of a lot of parking lots, I could easily fulfill a goal of caches just getting found.

 

Now, we should recognize that there are different reasons for folks to geocache and different things get them off the couch. What I focus on is the cache. Strip away the smilie or data that fits neatly into columns, what does that cache provide me during my experience hunting it? Because I couldn't care less about the smilie; what state, page, or county it is in; what cell of a grid it fits in; or a host of other things a find log* on a cache might provide someone, I'm sensitive as to why folks hunt our caches.

 

So, you don't have to "get it." Just know that some of us are sensitive to it.

 

 

 

* Could also the be the reason I generally don't care how many DNFs there are or the cache hasn't been found in a long time. I don't need a guaranteed find.

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...what is the bigger problem challenges or poor log etiquette?

Tact.

 

That's the reason I don't log caches I don't like. This is hobby. I'm into it because it is fun. (Yes, serious fun.) It's extremely easy to find nice things to say about a cache I really enjoyed. Not so much in regards to caches I hated. So, because logging disliked caches is not fun, I don't do it.

 

I think it less-than-tactful to log a cache with words that pretty say the finder didn't care about the cache, one way or the other, any more than the tick mark it provided. Sometimes it's almost as if the cache is invisible and the only thing is the smilie or whatever.

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