Palestinian Territories missing

[+VladVonHistria]

How can I post a cashe located in the Palestinian Territories?

There is no such option on the drop down list?

 

Can you introduce this please?

[+StarBrand]

Lets not let the site get into the particular politics of that. (Is it recognized? by who? why? etc.....) - Select the best country you can.

[+beejay&esskay]

How can I post a cashe located in the Palestinian Territories?

There is no such option on the drop down list?

 

Can you introduce this please?

 

Look at a nearby cache and use whatever country choice they used.

[+VladVonHistria]

StarBrand, you are right, I really don't want to get into politics and about by who it is recognized.

 

but.... beejay&esskay: how can I put Jordan or Israel or Egypt?

[+user13371]

I never thought about it until this moment, but ... since you place a cache by COORDINATES, why does the reporting page even ask you for the country/state/province/region? It seems kind of silly -- would that allow me to post a cache with coords in Mexico but claim the cache was in Oregon? Hope the reviewer spots things like that

 

I suppose if someone wanted to SEARCH for a cache in a given region, they should be able to SELECT the region by name from a drop down menu. But given the politics - unavoidable - if GC did put Palestinian Territories on the menu, there would be endless arguments about the boundaries.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_t...ries#Boundaries

[jholly]

I never thought about it until this moment, but ... since you place a cache by COORDINATES, why does the reporting page even ask you for the country/state/province/region? It seems kind of silly -- would that allow me to post a cache with coords in Mexico but claim the cache was in Oregon? Hope the reviewer spots things like that

 

I know of one instance where the cache is clearly in Oregon but is claims it is in Washington. We are not talking right on a border, it is about 40 or 50 miles south of the Columbia river. Apparently they don't check or this one got past.

 

Jim

Edited June 28, 2009 by jholly

[+webscouter.]

The reason you can select a different location is in case it is a multi that crosses political boundaries.

[+user13371]

The reason you can select a different location is in case it is a multi that crosses political boundaries.

I still don't understand. A multi starts in one place, even if it ends at the antipodes. The coords/location you place for a multi are the starting point, aren't they?

[+W8TTS]

The reason you can select a different location is in case it is a multi that crosses political boundaries.

I still don't understand. A multi starts in one place, even if it ends at the antipodes. The coords/location you place for a multi are the starting point, aren't they?

But, if the find is in the "antipodes" isn't that what you want credit for?

[+The Ravens]

The reason you can select a different location is in case it is a multi that crosses political boundaries.

The reason you can select a different location is in case it is a multi that crosses political boundaries.

I still don't understand. A multi starts in one place, even if it ends at the antipodes. The coords/location you place for a multi are the starting point, aren't they?

 

I know of a Puzzle cache that the start co-ords are out in the Pacific Ocean and the physical cache is in Kansas. That would be one good reason for having the option to select what country/state/province a cache is located/listed in.

 

Back to the Palestine Territories missing question... Palestine isn't an internationally recognized state/country. It's a territory of Isael and that's why there isn't an option for location.

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspect it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different continent altogether.

Edited June 29, 2009 by The Ravens

[+FunnyNose]

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspec it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different containent altogether.

 

Humm I wonder why caches in Belfast are listed as being in Ireland when they are actually in the United Kingdom.

[+The Ravens]

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspect it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different continent altogether.

 

Humm I wonder why caches in Belfast are listed as being in Ireland when they are actually in the United Kingdom.

 

Well... why are caches in Portland listed in Oregon when they are actually in the United States?

I think I answered that in my last post. Besides.. that region is so unstable borders could change tomorrow.

 

Edit: LOL! Thanks Allanon!

Edited June 29, 2009 by The Ravens

[+Allanon]

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspect it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different continent altogether.

 

Humm I wonder why caches in Belfast are listed as being in Ireland when they are actually in the United Kingdom.

 

Well... why are caches in Seattle listed in Oregon when they are actually in the United States?

I think I answered that in my last post. Besides.. that region is so unstable borders could change tomorrow.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Allanon

[+The Ravens]

DOH!

[+JeremyR]

Humm I wonder why caches in Belfast are listed as being in Ireland when they are actually in the United Kingdom.

I believe the status quo regarding Northern Ireland is that TPTB don't get into politics of the matter and you can have the cache listed with whichever country you want. A quick mess about with the PQ system suggests that there are currently 59 caches in Northern Ireland listed as being in the UK.

Edited June 29, 2009 by JeremyR

[+Juicepig]

I believe the status quo regarding Northern Ireland is that TPTB don't get into politics of the matter and you can have the cache listed with whichever country you want. A quick mess about with the PQ system suggests that there are currently 59 caches in Northern Ireland listed as being in the UK.

 

Sure.. but just TRY to do a search for them

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?country_id=11

 

to the OP - just pick a Country nearby, i'm sure they would let you get away with Jordan or Egypt if the other options seem distasteful

[+Renegade Knight]

I never thought about it until this moment, but ... since you place a cache by COORDINATES, why does the reporting page even ask you for the country/state/province/region? ...

 

Programming complexity. If the states came in handy polygone shapes it would be far simpler.

 

It can still be done but it's a lot of work to do right so it worked. Especially on the borders of the jagged edged states.

[+JeremyR]

Sure.. but just TRY to do a search for them

I did Albeit with the PQ system - caches listed as UK, within 60 miles of coordinates roughly in the centre of NI)

[+VladVonHistria]

 

Back to the Palestine Territories missing question... Palestine isn't an internationally recognized state/country. It's a territory of Isael and that's why there isn't an option for location.

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspect it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different continent altogether.

 

Ah, so it seems that the "politics" is unavoidable... although this is not quite a political question, but international law question, and while i could say something about the issue of recognition of states, we really don't need to get into it.

 

The short answer is that the Indian reservations in the US are absolutely different case and that the Occupied Palestinian Territories and not the territory Israel according to international consensus articulated in many agreements and resolutions recognized by the all UN member states.

As additional piece of information - "The State of Palestine" is recognized by 103 UN member states and "The State of Israel" by 166 UN member states. (out of 192)

 

So the Occupied Palestinian Territories (name recognized by the UN) is in limbo. It is not the only one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-recognized_nations

 

Obviously, the classification where the "Countries" equal "UN member states" is simply not the adequate one as introduces political divisions as categories. As long as we have this kind of classification, we will have discussions whether it is appropriate to mark Nablus as Israel, Jaffa as Palestine, Prishtina as Serbia, Gracanica as Kosovo, Taipei as China (oh, yeah, how come Taiwan is listed here..)

 

The truth is that the country is not necessarily the state, let alone UN member state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country

 

These are political divisions and should be abandoned by this community which is about the Earth, sharing, traveling, communicating.

 

I'd hope you would join me in this bid.

[+Frank Broughton]

There are billions of Arabs with trillions of acres of land surrounding little ole Israel. Let the Arabs give some land to the Palestinians. Even if they did do that they all would still hate Israel. It is ingrained in their bones.

[Keystone]

Save the political debate for the off topic forums. Your posts need to relate to how cache locations in this area ought to be categorized. Thank you.

[+The Ravens]

 

Back to the Palestine Territories missing question... Palestine isn't an internationally recognized state/country. It's a territory of Isael and that's why there isn't an option for location.

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspect it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different continent altogether.

 

As additional piece of information - "The State of Palestine" is recognized by 103 UN member states and "The State of Israel" by 166 UN member states. (out of 192)

 

So the Occupied Palestinian Territories (name recognized by the UN) is in limbo. It is not the only one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-recognized_nations

 

 

The truth is that the country is not necessarily the state, let alone UN member state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country

 

These are political divisions and should be abandoned by this community which is about the Earth, sharing, traveling, communicating.

 

I'd hope you would join me in this bid.

 

Thanks for the lesson. Did not know some of what you said. I knew the Indian Reservation commit I made was a stretch for a comparison.

 

"Political divisions..." if you are talking about the "geocaching community"... I'm with you. I was just trying to give an explanation to the OPs question. If you are talking about dropping all the political BS in the world.. also I'm with you. We all live on the same planet and after 10,000 years you would think we would have learned how to get along. I honestly think the BS is stupid.

Edited July 4, 2009 by The Ravens

[+The Ravens]

NOTE: Was in the middle of typing my above post while Keystone was posting.

[+Frank Broughton]

Save the political debate for the off topic forums. Your posts need to relate to how cache locations in this area ought to be categorized. Thank you.

 

Okay Keystone. Sorry 'bout that.

[+tomturtle]

Perhaps something could be done programatically for these places with disputed names. Maybe have you check something in your profile, so that it would look the way you want it to look depending on your point of view. It sounds like a lot of work, but I guess it could be done.

 

As for abandoning the countries and states, etc., I would be against that. In areas where things aren't disputed, I think it adds to the fun.

Edited July 4, 2009 by tomturtle

[+amnonymous]

First some history and facts for those who don't familiar with the complex issues in the middle east:

Palestine is the Roman name for Israel. This name was used by occupied forces in Israel during the years. After WWI, the British occupied Israel (from Turks) and splitted it - eastern part to Arabs (today Jordan kingdom) and western part was reserved to the Jews. Due to Arab pressure, the western part wasn't given to the Jews, and Jews even disallowed from returning to their country, even when they tortured in the holocaust.

In 1947, it was decided to split again the western Israel/Palestine between Jews and Arabs, but Arabs didn't accept it and opened war which ended by the occupation of parts of Israel by Jordan (Judea & Samaria), Egypt (Gaza strip) and Syria (Golan heights). In 1967 Israel released these occupied territories. Later, Israel signed peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt with agreed border.

This did not put end to the story because Arabs who settled in Israel during its occupation by Turks, British and Jordan claim that Israel belong to them. To establish their claim they defined themselves as a people and named it "Palestine" to show a connection to Israel/Palestine and drop their connection to their origin in the Arab Peninsula. The situation become more complicated because Arab countries don't allow the Israeli Arabs to return to their original Arab countries.

In the past, Israel agreed to give parts of Israel to Arabs. The "Palestinian Authority" was established as parts of these agreements, but the process was stopped, after Arabs who insist of getting all Israel started a terror war against Israel on 2000.

 

The bottom line is that Israel and Palestine (aka Judea or Zion) are the same territory. The different names are use by Jews and Arabs who want the same territory.

"Palestinian Authority" was given some autonomy in some territories, limited to Arab settlers. In these territories the full military, foreign affairs, etc. are of Israel and the internal issues are splitted between Jews and Arabs. Since this partition is based on population and not on territories, you can not use it as a separate territory for geocaching.

 

The only exception is the Gaza strip that is actually ruled by the Hamas terrorists which fight bith Israel and the Palestinian authority. The actual situation there can be defined as a separate state, but this problem can be avoided because I don't suggest anyone to risk his life and enter this land of terror for a game.

[+goonybird]

 

I would assume you would list it in Israel since that is the "country" that the Palestinian "Territory" lies within. To list "territories" would be like GC.com listing Indian (Native American) reservations here in the US. The only territory I see listed is the French Southern Territories and I have no idea where that is or what affiliation to France it has. I suspect it's not within the boundaries of the state of France but is on a different continent altogether.

 

Humm I wonder why caches in Belfast are listed as being in Ireland when they are actually in the United Kingdom.

 

Well... why are caches in Portland listed in Oregon when they are actually in the United States?

I think I answered that in my last post. Besides.. that region is so unstable borders could change tomorrow.

 

Edit: LOL! Thanks Allanon!

 

 

Well, there's a reason Portland chaces are listed in Oregon. THey're IN Oregon.

Belfast iS NOT in Ireland.

Shocker eh?

think about it

Its in NORTH Ireland, part of the UK.

 

Major difference. Belfast should NOT be listed as part of Ireland, its under the control of hte UK - regardless of the current political debates over that issue.

 

Again, the Palestinian Territories is still technically under the control of the Israeli government, again despite the current debates over that issue. The Palestinians only have a semi-independant region within Israel right now. So I'd say a cache in THe palestinian territorry should be listed in Israel....and, hopefully there will be an option for something akin to "provinces" underneath that.

 

I know some of you will want to debate these things. Cool with me. But still, since Pallestine and North IReland are under the control of the Israeli and UK governments respectively, i'd say its best to list them as being in those countries.

[+sTeamTraen]

What Keystone said above: please take this to off-topic, especially if the quality of political understanding is going to continue at its current level.

[+Frank Broughton]

What Keystone said above: please take this to off-topic, especially if the quality of political understanding is going to continue at its current level.

 

Ya - why did you not?