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I have a question that I would appreciate some other people's points of view. A cacher recently posted a log for one of my caches. They seem to think that my coordinates are off, so they posted in their log what they think the coordinates should be. I politely contacted them and asked them to please edit their log and remove the coordinates from their post. I pointed out that there have been 43 logs up to this point and not one single person has called into question the coordinates that I have posted.

 

Because of the area where I hid this cache, in a ravine with stone and trees on both sides, some cachers have gotten signal bounce and had trouble deciding which side of the ravine the cache is hidden. Only one has posted a DNF.

 

The cacher did edit his log, but the coordinates remain.

Have anyone of you had another cacher log other coordinates to one of your caches? If so, how did you handle it?

 

Thanks in advance for your input :)

Edited by Walkworthy
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I have been guilty of this, but I believe justly so. A cache recently nearby was posted and the hint was that it was in a parking lot along the highway and they had gotton permission from the buisniss. The problem though was that the longitude was off by abot 700 feet. I posted encrypted and included the coordinates.

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Posting the coords that were on their gps when they found the cache isn't a spoiler.

 

A spoiler would be a complete description of the location, or a picture of it.

 

I've had few cachers log alternate coords on my caches; I handled it by doing nothing.

It's their log, and those coords might be useful to some other cacher on some other day.

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It's not really a spoiler, is it? It's a traditional cache. The coords for the final of a multi or puzzle would be a spoiler, but not a traditional.

 

The finder's coords may well be off, but if even if they are, it's possible future seekers will encounter the same error and his "corrected" coordinates will help them out.

Edited by Dinoprophet
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Have anyone of you had another cacher log other coordinates to one of your caches? If so, how did you handle it?

 

It happens sometimes with my caches and I'm grateful for the alternate coordinates. In several instances the coords were better than mine and I used them to update my own. In every case,whether they were better than mine or not, I thanked the person for the additional input.

 

The alternate coords may be helpful to others if they are having trouble finding the cache with the published coords.

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I don't know whose coordinates are more accurate, I would post corrected coordinates only if the original coordinates put one on the other side of a difficult to cross physical barrier (and that is not the intention of the cache). Otherwise I'd say things like "my GPSr wouldn't agree on where is GZ" or "had to expand my search a bit". I've seen logs with finder supplied coordinates, followed by posts from others saying the new coordinates are better. So I'd say, take it as someone trying to do you a favor (whether you appreciate it or not) and let it stand.

Edited by Chrysalides
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...The coords for the final of a multi or puzzle would be a spoiler, but not a traditional...

 

That was my first thought when I read the post. There is a cache in town that has coordinates that are about 75' off (by my reckoning), but since it's a mystery cache with a really cool encoding method, I can't post updated coordinates without spoiling the cache. I've notified the CO in my log and by email, along with several other finders, but that's really all I can do.

 

On traditionals, especially if I am FTF, I post my coordinates if the posted coordinates are more than 50' off, knowing that most COs in our area appreciate the help.

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Posting the coords that were on their gps when they found the cache isn't a spoiler.

 

A spoiler would be a complete description of the location, or a picture of it.

 

I've had few cachers log alternate coords on my caches; I handled it by doing nothing.

It's their log, and those coords might be useful to some other cacher on some other day.

 

I agree with above. Sorry, I had to go for the comedic effect on my other post, being the very first response. :) You've only got a handful of hides, and it's not hard to figure out which one here. The finder has been around for a few years, and has hidden almost 150 caches themselves.

 

You (and many people) probably never noticed this, but there is a little checkbox above the standard log entry form on the website, and this is how this guy added a waypoint to his log for your cache. To be honest, I've never heard of anyone being offended by this before, although I"m sure you're not the first.

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...The coords for the final of a multi or puzzle would be a spoiler, but not a traditional...

 

That was my first thought when I read the post. There is a cache in town that has coordinates that are about 75' off (by my reckoning), but since it's a mystery cache with a really cool encoding method, I can't post updated coordinates without spoiling the cache. I've notified the CO in my log and by email, along with several other finders, but that's really all I can do.

One thing you could do is to post the delta (e.g. "subtract 0.012 from N minutes and add 0.015 to W minutes"). That wouldn't give away anything about the puzzle.

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...The coords for the final of a multi or puzzle would be a spoiler, but not a traditional...

 

That was my first thought when I read the post. There is a cache in town that has coordinates that are about 75' off (by my reckoning), but since it's a mystery cache with a really cool encoding method, I can't post updated coordinates without spoiling the cache. I've notified the CO in my log and by email, along with several other finders, but that's really all I can do.

One thing you could do is to post the delta (e.g. "subtract 0.012 from N minutes and add 0.015 to W minutes"). That wouldn't give away anything about the puzzle.

 

Nice! Thanks for the hint.

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Have anyone of you had another cacher log other coordinates to one of your caches? If so, how did you handle it?

The posting of the finder's coordinates on a traditional is not a spoiler. I'd let it stand.

 

That was my first thought when I read the post. There is a cache in town that has coordinates that are about 75' off (by my reckoning), but since it's a mystery cache with a really cool encoding method, I can't post updated coordinates without spoiling the cache. I've notified the CO in my log and by email, along with several other finders, but that's really all I can do.
One thing you could do is to post the delta (e.g. "subtract 0.012 from N minutes and add 0.015 to W minutes"). That wouldn't give away anything about the puzzle.

Yep. I've done exactly that before.

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I recently ran int a guy that seems to think like you but doesn't have your manners. He was way off and I posted coordinates. Shortly thereafter he deleted my log. Not worth worrying about so i just added his cache to my ignore list. You might want to consider why they have the "Add coordinates to log" (or some such language) on the log page. It appears that added coordinates is encouraged.

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No big deal. I see that once in a while on my caches. Until several cachers in a row report the coords are off or several over the course of time - I just ignore the entry. If future finders want to use them - great. If not - an awful lot of other folks found the cache with the posted coords - great! Thay all got to my spot and find the cache.

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I recently ran int a guy that seems to think like you but doesn't have your manners. He was way off and I posted coordinates. Shortly thereafter he deleted my log. Not worth worrying about so i just added his cache to my ignore list. You might want to consider why they have the "Add coordinates to log" (or some such language) on the log page. It appears that added coordinates is encouraged.

 

Well, I'll be dipped in chocolate! I had no idea anyone would ever be offended by the "add a waypoint" feature. It really is a seldom used feature that not too many people seem to know about. I'll bet I've used it at least a dozen times. Usually with caches with bad coords, where the owner seems to have lost interest in the game.

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Don't take it so personally.

 

I really don't understand how some hiders can be absolutely, 100% sure that there is NO WAY their coordinates could be off.

 

I even ran into this situation:

 

ef1bc94c-98b3-4e22-a6d7-94d54daa9aca.jpg

 

Not only can you actually see the downed tree the cache is hidden in GoogleEarth, the posted coordinates put you 50+ feet away and on the wrong side of the creek. Fortunately, someone had posted some alternate coordinates that were right on. I wrote the owner twice and they just totally blew me off.

 

I guess some people have some really sensitive egos.

 

I looked at yours and it is not nearly so clearcut a case but I wouldn't worry about it. Most people will try yours first anyway. If people have trouble with those coordinates, there is no harm in someone else offering some alternate coordinates to try.

Edited by EvanMinn
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I actually think it's quite funny you've entitled your post "spoiler".

 

A "spoiler" is when someone shows exactly where the cache is.

 

In geocaching the coordinates are SUPPOSED to show exactly where the cache is.

 

If the newly posted coordinates posted show exactly where the cache is, then they are correct to post corrected coordinates.

 

If the newly posted coordinates are not correct, what have you got to lose by leaving them there?

No one is obligated to use them. If other cachers do use them and they lead them astray, then that is up to them for using them.

If they help someone find the cache, this is not a spoiler, because the coordinates are SUPPOSED to help you find the cache.

 

Some may not realize it, but the point of this game IS finding things.

Although many who hide caches, especially the evil micros around my house for instance, do not want their caches to be found. Even in those cases, they need to post the correct coordinates.

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Boy, I have trouble with one set of Coords, now I have to worry about another set or two. How would you show the alternates in your GPSr, as additional waypoints?

 

:)

 

When I see them in a log before I go to a cache, I usually just write them down and take them with me, so I don't get confused about why that point was in my GPSr if I forget to delete them or something. If I have a hard time finding the cache in the field, then I'll enter the waypoint and try those coords.

 

If I find the additional coords after I log a DNF, those puppies go right into the GPSr and I'll try them next time.

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To be honest, I've never heard of anyone being offended by this before, although I"m sure you're not the first.

I'm not offended I was just surprised since there was never a question about the coordinates by any of the other cachers. I have never came across this on any of the caches I have hidden nor viewing logs of other people's caches.

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Found this one right way I had no problem with the GPS. Coordinates are off.

 

The guy *could* be a bit less dogmatic about it. If that were me (and especially since there is only one other DNF and 45 finds that don't complain) I would think he'd be a bit more humble about his proclaimation.

 

I would probably say something like, "For me, the coordinates seemed to be off, so I took my own set, averaged 200 samples, and came up with these. If you are having problems with the posted coords, you might give these a try"

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It happens sometimes with my caches and I'm grateful for the alternate coordinates. In several instances the coords were better than mine and I used them to update my own. In every case,whether they were better than mine or not, I thanked the person for the additional input.

 

The alternate coords may be helpful to others if they are having trouble finding the cache with the published coords.

 

Like I mentioned above, this is my first experience with this. There are some caches that my wife and I have found that the coordinates have been way off. I never considered posting a second set of coordinates.

But thanks for enlightening me on the subject

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I don't know whose coordinates are more accurate, I would post corrected coordinates only if the original coordinates put one on the other side of a difficult to cross physical barrier (and that is not the intention of the cache). Otherwise I'd say things like "my GPSr wouldn't agree on where is GZ" or "had to expand my search a bit". I've seen logs with finder supplied coordinates, followed by posts from others saying the new coordinates are better. So I'd say, take it as someone trying to do you a favor (whether you appreciate it or not) and let it stand.

Thanks I have done that :)

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I recently ran int a guy that seems to think like you but doesn't have your manners. He was way off and I posted coordinates. Shortly thereafter he deleted my log. Not worth worrying about so i just added his cache to my ignore list. You might want to consider why they have the "Add coordinates to log" (or some such language) on the log page. It appears that added coordinates is encouraged.

 

I was unaware of that until now. Thank you for bringing it to my attention :)

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Well, I'll be dipped in chocolate! I had no idea anyone would ever be offended by the "add a waypoint" feature. It really is a seldom used feature that not too many people seem to know about. I'll bet I've used it at least a dozen times. Usually with caches with bad coords, where the owner seems to have lost interest in the game.

I assure you that isn't the case here. My wife and I have found a number of caches, by one particular individual, that I cannot prove, but wonder if they purposely post bad coords to make their hides more difficult to find.

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I really don't understand how some hiders can be absolutely, 100% sure that there is NO WAY their coordinates could be off.

I know that my coords aren't 100% accurate and I never claimed that they are. The only way you can be sure is if you have a military GPSr, but then it wouldn't make any difference because nobody else would have one.

I try as best as I can to make the coords as accurate as possible. I don't believe in posting bad coords to make a hide more difficult to find. You can look at all of the posts for all the caches I have hidden. 80-95 % of the posts state that my caches were easy to find. I take that as a compliment that my coords are pretty darn good. :)

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Boy, I have trouble with one set of Coords, now I have to worry about another set or two. How would you show the alternates in your GPSr, as additional waypoints?

 

:)

 

When I see them in a log before I go to a cache, I usually just write them down and take them with me, so I don't get confused about why that point was in my GPSr if I forget to delete them or something. If I have a hard time finding the cache in the field, then I'll enter the waypoint and try those coords.

 

If I find the additional coords after I log a DNF, those puppies go right into the GPSr and I'll try them next time.

Or if you can't find the cache with the published coordinates use the mark feature on your GPS and enter the second set of coords manually

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Trying to develop more diplomatic skills, I have sometimes noted 'coords seemed a bit soft'. There was a five stage multi we did once, where every stage seemed fifty feet off. I logged that the final was 170' off, and got my log deleted. (I relogged "TFTC".) I suspect that he was using an older, less accurate GPS unit.

The only time I can recall posting coords was for one that was 950' off. The cache owner posted the north coords for the parking area, rather than for the cache. This became obvious after a number of DNFs. Rather than taking my word for it, he went back out and took new coords. Oh, well.

But other cachers suffer the same inaccuracies as cache hiders. The saddest I've heard about was the cacher who logged a triangulation station (benchmark) with new coordinates, and suggested the the National Geodetic Survey should either correct the coords, or move the triangulation station. Triangulation stations are accurated to hundredths of a second. Far more accurate than any handheld GPS unit.

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Boy, I have trouble with one set of Coords, now I have to worry about another set or two. How would you show the alternates in your GPSr, as additional waypoints?

 

:)

 

When I see them in a log before I go to a cache, I usually just write them down and take them with me, so I don't get confused about why that point was in my GPSr if I forget to delete them or something. If I have a hard time finding the cache in the field, then I'll enter the waypoint and try those coords.

 

If I find the additional coords after I log a DNF, those puppies go right into the GPSr and I'll try them next time.

Or if you can't find the cache with the published coordinates use the mark feature on your GPS and enter the second set of coords manually

 

As described in option 1.

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I actually think it's quite funny you've entitled your post "spoiler".

When I was writing my post, I just put that for a title intending to go back an change it before posting. But in the busyness of writing and editing to make myself understandable to all who read it, I forgot to go back and change it. To tell you the truth, I have no idea why the word "Spoiler" came to mind. :laughing:

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Trying to develop more diplomatic skills, I have sometimes noted 'coords seemed a bit soft'. There was a five stage multi we did once, where every stage seemed fifty feet off. I logged that the final was 170' off, and got my log deleted. (I relogged "TFTC".) I suspect that he was using an older, less accurate GPS unit.

The only time I can recall posting coords was for one that was 950' off. The cache owner posted the north coords for the parking area, rather than for the cache. This became obvious after a number of DNFs. Rather than taking my word for it, he went back out and took new coords. Oh, well.

But other cachers suffer the same inaccuracies as cache hiders. The saddest I've heard about was the cacher who logged a triangulation station (benchmark) with new coordinates, and suggested the the National Geodetic Survey should either correct the coords, or move the triangulation station. Triangulation stations are accurated to hundredths of a second. Far more accurate than any handheld GPS unit.

Having coordinates that far off is unbelievable. I think that the greatest distance that my wife and I have found a cache from the published coordinates was 55'. When I contacted the CO about it he told be that the original cache was hidden in a bush which was later cut down. So he moved the cache to a new location, but didn't correct the coordinates. :)

 

The first cache that I hid, with the help of my son-in-law, had these coordinates posted:

N 41° 10.231 W 080° 21.812

We placed his GPS on the cache site and let it sit for 5-10 minutes.

 

This is the post of the FTF:

FTF #17!!! Jjust finished lunch when i got the notification that this cache was published so i went off to get it. nice short hike through the field and found it.i took an average of the cords and got

N41 10.230 W80 21.813

 

Now I ask you, is that picking the fly specks out of the pepper? :laughing:

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The first cache that I hid, with the help of my son-in-law, had these coordinates posted:

N 41° 10.231 W 080° 21.812

We placed his GPS on the cache site and let it sit for 5-10 minutes.

 

This is the post of the FTF:

FTF #17!!! Jjust finished lunch when i got the notification that this cache was published so i went off to get it. nice short hike through the field and found it.i took an average of the cords and got

N41 10.230 W80 21.813

 

Now I ask you, is that picking the fly specks out of the pepper? :laughing:

Well, I guess this is a "glass half empty or half full" thing. You can always read it as "wow, the original coordinates are really good" :) But, I agree, 0.001 minutes is just silly.

Edited by Chrysalides
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The first cache that I hid, with the help of my son-in-law, had these coordinates posted:

N 41° 10.231 W 080° 21.812

We placed his GPS on the cache site and let it sit for 5-10 minutes.

 

This is the post of the FTF:

FTF #17!!! Jjust finished lunch when i got the notification that this cache was published so i went off to get it. nice short hike through the field and found it.i took an average of the cords and got

N41 10.230 W80 21.813

 

Now I ask you, is that picking the fly specks out of the pepper? :D

Well, I guess this is a "glass half empty or half full" thing. You can always read it as "wow, the original coordinates are really good" :D But, I agree, 0.001 minutes is just silly.

 

Ego's run both ways, some people have a point to prove, even if there is no point to prove. (?)

 

I've sent CO's coords via email, I've also logged them as hey, here's what I got, but only if its more than 50' off. I've also had people log better coords. I usually don't update until someone logs that the new coords were a big help. I have had people get upset that I didn't instantly update to their posted coords.

 

Go figure.

 

What gets me is when someone logs its of by 150' but doesn't take better coords. (It happens in the forests on mountainsides) But you live with it, go out and perform a little maintenance and move along.

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(snip)

The first cache that I hid, with the help of my son-in-law, had these coordinates posted:

N 41° 10.231 W 080° 21.812

We placed his GPS on the cache site and let it sit for 5-10 minutes.

 

This is the post of the FTF:

FTF #17!!! Jjust finished lunch when i got the notification that this cache was published so i went off to get it. nice short hike through the field and found it.i took an average of the cords and got

N41 10.230 W80 21.813

 

Now I ask you, is that picking the fly specks out of the pepper? :laughing:

 

I know that some people ALWAYS post coords on their find log - not sure if that was the case in the subject of your OP here.

 

As for the FTF guy above, I wonder if he did it because it was your first hide and you mentioned for people to let you know what they think. I know that many people on their first hides aren't confident of their coords, and others will re-assure them the coords are good. Maybe he was doing that. If he was doing it to say "Hey, Dummy... your coords are wrong!" ... then he is a jerk!

 

BTW - never heard the "picking the fly specks out of the pepper" saying - I will have to start using that one!!

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Posting the coords that were on their gps when they found the cache isn't a spoiler.

 

A spoiler would be a complete description of the location, or a picture of it.

 

I've had few cachers log alternate coords on my caches; I handled it by doing nothing.

It's their log, and those coords might be useful to some other cacher on some other day.

 

My reaction exactly. Recently had someone post on one of my logs that my coords were off by 20 feet.

I left the log as they posted it, alhough they should know that within 20 feet is about as good as you will get. Probably new cachers and think they should see zero on their units when at the cache.

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