History Gone Wrong

6.7k · June 10, 2009

In another thread I mentioned that historical sites are often wrong, and that the history we learned in school is very often wrong as well.

That got me to thinking about some books I had read a while back that I really enjoyed,

Lies Across America: What Our Historic Sites Get Wrong

and

Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong

by James Loewen.

After you play this game a while everything takes on a geocaching perspective, so this made me think

"Wouldn't a nationwide cache series marking incorrect historical sites, with an explanation in the description of how and why it was wrong, be a kewl thing?"

"Why yes," said I to me, "It would!"

So, I shall begin tomorrow to find sites in my area where history has gone wrong, and I invite you to do the same. Hide caches at or near these sites and explain the true history.

Then let's create a bookmark list of History Gone Wrong caches across the nation.

Join me, we'll have some fun, hide and seek interesting caches and maybe learn a thing or two along the way!

Just do good research and source citation... you wouldn't want to place a History Gone Wrong cache and have it pointed out that you were wrong!

For instance: Explorer Desoto discovered what is now the State of Alabama, right? Of course that's right, it's in all the history books! There are many historical plaques and signs and such to commemorate it, it has to be right.

Except... it's not.

One of the easiest to research and best-documented cases of History Gone Wrong can be found in http://books.google.com/books?id=Tld5AAAAM...snum=4#PPA13,M1 page 13, Section 1. Thus all memorials of Desoto discovering Alabama are now considered by scholars to be wrong... lots of monuments exist to state (incorrectly) his discovery, each one a great location for a History Gone Wrong cache!

Edited June 10, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

19k · June 10, 2009

In another thread I mentioned that historical sites are often wrong, and that the history we learned in school is very often wrong as well.

I'm sure that there are times that history is simply "wrong", but more often than not, it is simply one point of view, stated as fact. The prominant view at the time often gets replaced by another point of view, and so the previous "history" appears to be a lie, but its really just a matter of a new point of view replacing the old one. History, like its photographs, likes to pretend that its all black and white, but the truth is that color existed long before Kodak.

2.4k · June 10, 2009

Then let's create a bookmark list of History Gone Wrong caches across the nation.

Join me, we'll have some fun, hide and seek interesting caches and maybe learn a thing or two along the way!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...98-a6982beba763

This is the White River History Cache.

I don't need to do any research on this one.

Or, I could site the book I just read: "Black Elk Speaks" Awesome book!!!

This site has two monuments that lament the loss of settlers to the Indians.

the "wrong" part is that the whites were always playing "victim" of the indians.

They were doing US wrong. And who was taking over who's space?

Who made treaties and broke them continuously?

Yes those savages are out to get us all, when in fact they were for the most part pretty peaceful. Black Elk Speaks talks about how much they tried to keep away from the white men and only responded with violence after significant injustices were done to them.

But history is written by the victor, so the white man can say anything they want.

6.7k · June 10, 2009

Then let's create a bookmark list of History Gone Wrong caches across the nation.

Join me, we'll have some fun, hide and seek interesting caches and maybe learn a thing or two along the way!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...98-a6982beba763

This is the White River History Cache.

I don't need to do any research on this one.

Or, I could site the book I just read: "Black Elk Speaks" Awesome book!!!

This site has two monuments that lament the loss of settlers to the Indians.

the "wrong" part is that the whites were always playing "victim" of the indians.

They were doing US wrong. And who was taking over who's space?

Who made treaties and broke them continuously?

Yes those savages are out to get us all, when in fact they were for the most part pretty peaceful. Black Elk Speaks talks about how much they tried to keep away from the white men and only responded with violence after significant injustices were done to them.

But history is written by the victor, so the white man can say anything they want.

Well there ya go! Find historical sites which "document" that and you have a History Gone Wrong cache site!

Just be sure to cite reliable sources... this series will be worthless if it is based on opinion. Get the facts!

Edited June 10, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

19k · June 10, 2009

Then let's create a bookmark list of History Gone Wrong caches across the nation.

Join me, we'll have some fun, hide and seek interesting caches and maybe learn a thing or two along the way!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...98-a6982beba763

This is the White River History Cache.

I don't need to do any research on this one.

Or, I could site the book I just read: "Black Elk Speaks" Awesome book!!!

This site has two monuments that lament the loss of settlers to the Indians.

the "wrong" part is that the whites were always playing "victim" of the indians.

They were doing US wrong. And who was taking over who's space?

Who made treaties and broke them continuously?

Yes those savages are out to get us all, when in fact they were for the most part pretty peaceful. Black Elk Speaks talks about how much they tried to keep away from the white men and only responded with violence after significant injustices were done to them.

But history is written by the victor, so the white man can say anything they want.

Based on my reading, even from documents of the era, the Dakotas (Kaposia tribe) in my area bent over backwards to help the "new guys" in Minnesota out, even to the point of letting their children go hungry. But there comes a point...

I have (and have had) several caches that bring awareness to Little Crow and the Kaposia tribe in my area (South St Paul, MN, one of the cradles of Minnesota white civilization)

June 10, 2009

In another thread I mentioned that historical sites are often wrong, and that the history we learned in school is very often wrong as well.

That got me to thinking about some books I had read a while back that I really enjoyed,

Lies Across America: What Our Historic Sites Get Wrong

and

Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong

by James Loewen.

After you play this game a while everything takes on a geocaching perspective, so this made me think

"Wouldn't a nationwide cache series marking incorrect historical sites, with an explanation in the description of how and why it was wrong, be a kewl thing?"

"Why yes," said I to me, "It would!"

So, I shall begin tomorrow to find sites in my area where history has gone wrong, and I invite you to do the same. Hide caches at or near these sites and explain the true history.

Then let's create a bookmark list of History Gone Wrong caches across the nation.

Join me, we'll have some fun, hide and seek interesting caches and maybe learn a thing or two along the way!

Just do good research and source citation... you wouldn't want to place a History Gone Wrong cache and have it pointed out that you were wrong!

For instance: Explorer Desoto discovered what is now the State of Alabama, right? Of course that's right, it's in all the history books! There are many historical plaques and signs and such to commemorate it, it has to be right.

Except... it's not.

One of the easiest to research and best-documented cases of History Gone Wrong can be found in http://books.google.com/books?id=Tld5AAAAM...snum=4#PPA13,M1 page 13, Section 1. Thus all memorials of Desoto discovering Alabama are now considered by scholars to be wrong... lots of monuments exist to state (incorrectly) his discovery, each one a great location for a History Gone Wrong cache!

Well.....of course De Soto didn't discover Alabama. Heck, how can any European claim discovery of something with people living there already?

Just saying.....

June 10, 2009

Not exactly history, but an example of a monumental plaque with a geo-error on it: The first stage of cache GCHV0N takes you to a display where the longitude that is cast into the text is wrong. I don't remember how much it was, but I seem to recall it was an entire degree or some other large error.

June 10, 2009

Well.....of course De Soto didn't discover Alabama. Heck, how can any European claim discovery of something with people living there already?

Just saying.....

with the cunning use of flags

Edited June 10, 2009 by Anno Lynke

June 10, 2009

Something Odd ( GC8ED6 in an Odd Fellow cemetery in Baxter Tennessee) has you find a soldier who claimed to be the only survivor of Custer's Last Stand. Unfortunately if you search local papers from around his time, even his family disagreed with his claim and proclaimed him a drunkard! One of my favorite cemetery hides so far.

June 10, 2009

Something Odd ( GC8ED6 in an Odd Fellow cemetery in Baxter Tennessee) has you find a soldier who claimed to be the only survivor of Custer's Last Stand. Unfortunately if you search local papers from around his time, even his family disagreed with his claim and proclaimed him a drunkard! One of my favorite cemetery hides so far.

Thanks for mentioning that cache. If I'm ever up in that part of Tennessee, that will have to be one of the caches I go look for. It's now on my watch list.

3.1k · June 10, 2009

Cool idea. Not to derail this, but it would be a great Waymarking category.

June 10, 2009

This sounds like a great idea.

Some here seem to think that history is a matter of opinion and they are right in many cases. But there is plenty of history that is based on facts that can be verified, or not. In one of the books that you mention there is a case involving a statue of a famous war hero riding his favorite horse. The statue has the genetalia of the wrong sex shown on the horse. That can be verified.

I am working on a series of caches based on the history of my hometown. Your idea will have me looking for some kind of inaccuracies that can be used for a cache.

4.2k · June 10, 2009

In another thread I mentioned that historical sites are often wrong, and that the history we learned in school is very often wrong as well.

<snip>

Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong

by James Loewen.

Ed, that book is exactly what I had in mind when I made the post to the other thread. This is a great idea; hope it doesn't stir up too much angst and I hope that these caches can be placed and listed in a tasteful, yet fact-filled manner.

June 10, 2009

Be careful not to be too aggressive in your wording; wouldn't want the reviewers to deny your cache for promoting an agenda.

7.3k · June 10, 2009

Funny, I've been contemplating a hide near a newly erected historical marker. It replaces an identical marker that was about a mile away. Marker subject being the first bridge over the river

Neither marker is/was at the actual site of the first bridge over the river. The marker isn't terribly interesting in itself, it's the uproar it created.

The original marker was at a wooden bridge over the river. When flooding damaged that bridge and it was torn down and replaced with a nice steel and concrete structure there was an enormous outcry about the destruction of the historic bridge! The history of that particular bridge dated all the way back to the 1960s, when Cummers Lumber built it to facilitate getting the cypress logs out.....

The county took the darn historical marker down, as they got tired of being ragged about destruction of the "historic" bridge. Now the marker is back up, in a county park, probably closer to the actual original bridge site, but not on the river.

Astonishing to me that anyone would assume from the presence of the historic marker that they were looking at and driving over an early 19th century bridge. The bridge deck was timber, but it was clearly a 20th century structure. Concrete pilings, steel trusses..... but since the marker was there, it HAD to be the historic bridge!

Edited June 10, 2009 by Isonzo Karst

4.2k · June 10, 2009

Be careful not to be too aggressive in your wording; wouldn't want the reviewers to deny your cache for promoting an agenda.

That was kind of the point I was dancing around. Support your facts with references, acknowledge the "alternate" viewpoint, leave it up to the reader to make the connection.

Wrong: "This sign says that Bugs Bunny was a rabbit but my research on the interweb has revealed that Bugs Bunny was actually a HARE! This sign is wrong! Laugh at it's wrongness and support www.truthaboutbugs.org!!!!"

Better: "While most often accepted to be a rabbit, in an Acme News article from the 1960's (which can be read at this link: www._____.com) his co-creator and Warner Brothers janitor Iam Notarealguy was quoted as defining Bugs as more of a hare than rabbit."

You get the idea. Your local reviewers may have better ideas and guidance for you.

24.7k · June 10, 2009

...But history is written by the victor,...

It is. Imagine my suprise to learn the Nez Pierce war was started by a rogue group of the Nez Pierce who went against the wisdom of their elders and attacked a nearby settlement. That was not what was taught in school. The funny thing is that you would think it would be, but maybe it would have taken too much away from Chief Josephs awe inspiring oratory when the war ended.

24.7k · June 10, 2009

This sounds like a great idea.

Some here seem to think that history is a matter of opinion and they are right in many cases. ...

It's a soft science. There isn't a lot to go on and you have to fill the gaps with professional judgment (which at times is little more than a SWAG). DNA is overturning a lot of what we thought we knew. Traditional History of the UK is being upended because DNA of Celts, Anglo/Saxons, Normans/Vikings tell a different tale than the history books.

June 10, 2009

Also note that sometimes, the powers that be will acknowledge an error but decline to correct it, instead proclaiming the error to be the "correct truth." eg, The Four Corners Monument commemorating the location of the intersection of CO, UT, AZ, NM. It is acknowledged that the four corners monument was originally placed in the incorrect place, but is now acknowledged to be correctly placed and the correct intersection of the four states, and is used as a spatial marker for geodetic measurements.

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/INFO/fourcorners.shtml

1.4k · June 10, 2009

Cool idea. Not to derail this, but it would be a great Waymarking category.

i recommend suggesting it on their forums - in the mean time, I would like to see this too!

6.7k · June 10, 2009

Firstly, there is no agenda in pointing out where history got it wrong.

Nextly, I will do waymarks when I get them in my geocaching PQs, until then I am ignoring them. As far as I am concerned a waymark is a virtual, so letting me do a single PQ that shows both waymarks and geocaches around me just makes sense... like anything else, those who don't want waymarks in their PQs should be able to filter them out... without may even be the default, then let those of us who want them choose to include them. Anyhoo, that's another topic...

Lastly, the books I mentioned to get folks started should be freely available in any public library system, you don't have to buy them (or even read them) so there is no commercialism.

Back, I hope, to the topic of hiding caches at places were History has Gone Wrong! :grin:

4.2k · June 11, 2009

Firstly, there is no agenda in pointing out where history got it wrong.

Maybe not the way that you're planning, but there could be. It's conceivable and not that unrealistic to imagine that there are agenda driven people that would like to share what they believe to be the historical truth with the rest of the world. They might run into problems if they were to try and substantiate these truths...

Edited June 11, 2009 by Castle Mischief

19k · June 11, 2009

Firstly, there is no agenda in pointing out where history got it wrong.

Maybe not the way that you're planning, but there could be. It's conceivable and not that unrealistic to imagine that there are agenda driven people that would like to share what they believe to be the historical truth with the rest of the world. They might run into problems if they were to try and substantiate these truths...

Is there anyone here from the Flat Earth Society?

Hey, it could happen.

3.3k · June 11, 2009

I love this idea.

The local musium talks about "hells half acre", and puts it in the wrong place. They said it happend in the city, but it was actualy near a town about 15 miles south. Since that is in a musium, may be tough to do a cache, but it is one of those outdoor town setting musiums, so maybe. Would have to ask permission. May not want to mention that it was to point out an inacuracy.

19k · June 11, 2009

I love this idea.

The local musium talks about "hells half acre", and puts it in the wrong place. They said it happend in the city, but it was actualy near a town about 15 miles south. Since that is in a musium, may be tough to do a cache, but it is one of those outdoor town setting musiums, so maybe. Would have to ask permission. May not want to mention that it was to point out an inacuracy.

Which Hell's Half Acre is that? Seems to be many of them.

June 12, 2009

isn't the 4 Corners Monument in the wrong place and isn't there a cache nearby?

6.7k · June 12, 2009

isn't the 4 Corners Monument in the wrong place and isn't there a cache nearby?

Lots of location monuments placed long ago are in the wrong place. Many states for example have a marker for 'the geographic center of the state' which due to remapping over time and the advent of more accurate mapping tools (GPS) has now been determined to be in the wrong place. These are now locations for History Gone Wrong caches!

6.1k · June 12, 2009

Firstly, there is no agenda in pointing out where history got it wrong.

Maybe not the way that you're planning, but there could be. It's conceivable and not that unrealistic to imagine that there are agenda driven people that would like to share what they believe to be the historical truth with the rest of the world. They might run into problems if they were to try and substantiate these truths...

Well, the Ark of the Covenant WAS discovered in the 1370s, and history has been screwed up ever since, because it was never reported to the masses, and was used in an attempt to recreate an underground group using the incorrect spirits! :mad:

If I could prove it, (and hide a cache to memorialize it) I would! :rolleyes:

5.6k · June 12, 2009

isn't the 4 Corners Monument in the wrong place and isn't there a cache nearby?

See the link in post #19. It is exactly where it's supposed to be and is correct.

History Gone Wrong

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