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Lousy Server

brianweeks

By brianweeks
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brianweeks

+brianweeks

Posted
Posted

What's going on with the geocaching.com server? I can't even get onto the site to download waypoint coordinates. I have a hard time believing that late morning on a Tuesday would be that busy that the server wouldn't allow access. This sucks!!!!

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TexasGringo

+TexasGringo

Posted
Posted

The other day I kept getting "Server Busy" and "Service Unavailable" for quite a while.

 

Usually (including today) I just get "Waiting For Geocaching.com" or "Waiting For Forums.Groundspeak.com".

 

These messages have happened much more frequently in the last month or so.

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coggins

+coggins

Posted
Posted (edited)

What's going on with the geocaching.com server? I can't even get onto the site to download waypoint coordinates. I have a hard time believing that late morning on a Tuesday would be that busy that the server wouldn't allow access.

I can't even find the server to not get on...

 

Edit, oh I see "Server is too busy".

 

Edit, make that "Service Unavailable".

 

Edit, working perfectly now :)

Edited by coggins
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currykev

+currykev

Posted
Posted (edited)

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

I'm getting tired of "server" problems.

And as an added gripe the iPhone mapping application had me spend an hour going in the wrong direction.

Can I have a refund?????

As they say in France (profanity deleted by moderator)

Edited by mtn-man
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pppingme

+pppingme

Posted
Posted

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

Over 80,000 premium members, I'll let you do the math.

 

Plus:

- kickback on the trimble app (monthly fee)

- kickback on the iphone app (9 bucks?)

- all the google ads you've been seeing in the forums

- non-premium members are also flooded with google ads

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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

Over 80,000 premium members, I'll let you do the math.

 

Plus:

- kickback on the trimble app (monthly fee)

- kickback on the iphone app (9 bucks?)

- all the google ads you've been seeing in the forums

- non-premium members are also flooded with google ads

 

Lets see ...

 

There is the cost of the servers and the cost of running them 24/7, oh, that is probably free.

There is the cost of the main headquarters, oh that is probably free, donated by the City of Seattle.

There is the cost of the employees that work at headquarters, oh, that is probably zero because they want to donate their time.

I sure there are other costs, most of which are probably free because they are all donated.

 

How did you come up with 80,000 premium members? was that a number generated in a drunken stupor?

 

Jim

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baloo&bd

+baloo&bd

Posted
Posted

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

Over 80,000 premium members, I'll let you do the math.

 

Plus:

- kickback on the trimble app (monthly fee)

- kickback on the iphone app (9 bucks?)

- all the google ads you've been seeing in the forums

- non-premium members are also flooded with google ads

 

It's amazing with that much easy money floating around, you think you guys would have started your own trouble free site by now.

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pppingme

+pppingme

Posted
Posted

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

Over 80,000 premium members, I'll let you do the math.

 

Plus:

- kickback on the trimble app (monthly fee)

- kickback on the iphone app (9 bucks?)

- all the google ads you've been seeing in the forums

- non-premium members are also flooded with google ads

 

Lets see ...

 

There is the cost of the servers and the cost of running them 24/7, oh, that is probably free.

There is the cost of the main headquarters, oh that is probably free, donated by the City of Seattle.

There is the cost of the employees that work at headquarters, oh, that is probably zero because they want to donate their time.

I sure there are other costs, most of which are probably free because they are all donated.

 

How did you come up with 80,000 premium members? was that a number generated in a drunken stupor?

 

Jim

 

Yeah, and by the time you take out reasonable numbers for all this, there is still no question that a significant profit is being made.

 

80k times $3/month is 240k, If their expenses are seriously even 1/2 that then there is some serious mismanagement of how that business is run.

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pppingme

+pppingme

Posted
Posted

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

Over 80,000 premium members, I'll let you do the math.

 

Plus:

- kickback on the trimble app (monthly fee)

- kickback on the iphone app (9 bucks?)

- all the google ads you've been seeing in the forums

- non-premium members are also flooded with google ads

 

It's amazing with that much easy money floating around, you think you guys would have started your own trouble free site by now.

Its kinda the same as the ebay factor, first in town, people flock to it and just won't hit a second site, but again, just like ebay, their thinking they are the controller of the world will eat them and they will start having problems, they already are.

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StarBrand

+StarBrand

Posted
Posted

How much cash $$$ does Jeremy and his "henchmen" make per year for having such an amateur website?

Over 80,000 premium members, I'll let you do the math.

 

Plus:

- kickback on the trimble app (monthly fee)

- kickback on the iphone app (9 bucks?)

- all the google ads you've been seeing in the forums

- non-premium members are also flooded with google ads

 

Lets see ...

 

There is the cost of the servers and the cost of running them 24/7, oh, that is probably free.

There is the cost of the main headquarters, oh that is probably free, donated by the City of Seattle.

There is the cost of the employees that work at headquarters, oh, that is probably zero because they want to donate their time.

I sure there are other costs, most of which are probably free because they are all donated.

 

How did you come up with 80,000 premium members? was that a number generated in a drunken stupor?

 

Jim

 

Yeah, and by the time you take out reasonable numbers for all this, there is still no question that a significant profit is being made.

 

80k times $3/month is 240k, If their expenses are seriously even 1/2 that then there is some serious mismanagement of how that business is run.

Really!!???!!

 

Lets say there are 25 employees (Look at the list of names on a lackey coin - this is a reasonable guess) making about $60,000 per year each (with benefits and payroll taxes lets say for arguments sake). That is 25 x $5000 or about $125,000 per month. If they are really lucky, a building is going to cost around $8000 per month - lets throw in another $5000 for utilities. Now, Decent computers, destop software, a phone system, copiers, office supplies, desks, chairs, travel, etc..... say around another $20,000 per month. Add to that Servers (lots of them) with lots of memory and storage plus the high end software on each plus some decent data prtection, firewalls, switches, cable, routers, racks, power backups, generators, maintenance, air conditioning, power requirements, building expenses --- all hot swapable etc..... - another $30,000 per month. Then comes the Internet connectivity - high capacity, scaleable, redundant, 24/7 monitoring, etc - (no real idea but I'll make it cheap) - say $10,000 per month. Advertising, promotional materials, meetings etc - $5000 per month. Were up to about 200k already and I think I am shooting at least a little low on several of these figures.

 

Now consider that a significant portion of users actually pay $30 yearly which is $2.50 per month. I'll split the difference with you and call it $2.75 per user on average. Now the monthly gross is around 220K minus the expenses and we get about $20k left over.

 

If Jeremy as founder and CEO of this successful little venture is walking off with about $240,000 per year - he doesn't even qualify as rich under the current thinking in Washington.

 

All that assuming 80,000 subscribers is about right.

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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted

 

80k times $3/month is 240k,

 

You can even get the facts that are easily verified correct. There is no more $3/month option. So why would I believe your other "facts" as being correct? I suspect you should stick with finding potatoes and not try to figure out a profit and loss sheet with numbers that you don't have a clue about.

 

Jim

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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted

Don't forget the $1.50 per tracking number from geocoins. And extra for the custom icon. That's probably more profitable than premium membership.

 

Everything else aside, Potato Finder, can you tell us how you came up with the "80,000" figure for premium members? Because I've always wondered. Sometimes I wonder if there are even 80,000 active geocachers (defined as someone who has a find / hide in the last 30 days). Over 2 million accounts registered, and many of them are never used.

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HayfeverTX

+HayfeverTX

Posted
Posted (edited)

Don't forget the $1.50 per tracking number from geocoins. And extra for the custom icon. That's probably more profitable than premium membership.

 

Everything else aside, Potato Finder, can you tell us how you came up with the "80,000" figure for premium members? Because I've always wondered. Sometimes I wonder if there are even 80,000 active geocachers (defined as someone who has a find / hide in the last 30 days). Over 2 million accounts registered, and many of them are never used.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?act=members - then filter the advanced options down to premium members.

 

just filtering premium members at 50 a page, i get 2265 pages. thats roughtly 113,250 premium members. i could be doing the math all wrong as its 3am and ive been without caffeine for most of the night.

Edited by HayfeverTX
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Team Taran

+Team Taran

Posted
Posted

Your search method doesn't work. I'm not sure why but when I randomly selected 5 people listed as premium members and looked at their profile 3 of them where not paid members at this time. I suspect that if you log in to the forums while you have a premium membership, let it lapse and never log in again, you continue to be shown as a premium member. I have no idea how many premium mebers there are but I suspect your figure is high. In any case I pay my $30 to support the site and for features I found helpful what happens to my money is none of my business, unless the site is no longer satisfactory. So far it has been. Not perfect but well worth what I pay for it.

Team Taran

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GOF and Bacall

GOF and Bacall

Posted
Posted
I suspect that if you log in to the forums while you have a premium membership, let it lapse and never log in again, you continue to be shown as a premium member.

Exactly.

What does GS's finances have to do with problems with the site running? Unless the problem is that they need to invest more in hardware or software, and we have been told that isn't the problem, Then the problem isn't money. The question is what is the problem and what is the plan to deal with it?

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Tequila

+Tequila

Posted
Posted
I suspect that if you log in to the forums while you have a premium membership, let it lapse and never log in again, you continue to be shown as a premium member.

Exactly.

What does GS's finances have to do with problems with the site running? Unless the problem is that they need to invest more in hardware or software, and we have been told that isn't the problem, Then the problem isn't money. The question is what is the problem and what is the plan to deal with it?

 

And if it is money, then GS could implement a price increase for Premium Memberships. I don't think there has ever been an increase. It is still a great bargain for what we get. I doubt many would object to a 10% increase.

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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted
I don't think there has ever been an increase. It is still a great bargain for what we get. I doubt many would object to a 10% increase.

If they do, I hope they grandfather in the rates current premium members are paying - like what SmugMug (photo sharing site) does - they've raised their fees several times since I joined, but my rates remain the same as when I joined. Not only does it help with higher retention rate and customer loyalty, it would prevent another massive round of geocides and threads about them. And frankly, I'm getting a little tired of reading about geocides.

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Allanon

+Allanon

Posted
Posted
I suspect that if you log in to the forums while you have a premium membership, let it lapse and never log in again, you continue to be shown as a premium member.

Exactly.

What does GS's finances have to do with problems with the site running? Unless the problem is that they need to invest more in hardware or software, and we have been told that isn't the problem, Then the problem isn't money. The question is what is the problem and what is the plan to deal with it?

What do their finances have to do with anything?

 

Groundspeak is not a public company/organization. They're privately owned and as such do not have to answer to you or anyone else. And just because you choose to pay for a premium membership doesn't give you a say in anything.

 

As I've said before, and will probably say again, if you are that unhappy save yourself some grief and go somewhere else.

 

This whole financial 'discussion' is actually pretty pitiful and uncalled for if you ask me (which I know no one did).

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Shilo

+Shilo

Posted
Posted

 

Groundspeak is not a public company/organization. They're privately owned and as such do not have to answer to you or anyone else. And just because you choose to pay for a premium membership doesn't give you a say in anything.

 

Almost correct. We pay for a service and should get it. Doesn't matter if they are publicly held or privately owned. At least an update and/or attempts at an improvement should be made. The same old issues keep going on and on.

You are correct in saying we can go somewhere else. But I don't know of another caching site as popular as this one. Yes there are others but everyone knows of this one. Just like saying we don't like using gasoline in our cars. Well we could just not drive but everyone does it and pretty much needed to go anywhere. Not many viable options for transportation but yes there are a few but not as popular as gas powered cars.

I started a post awhile back about stopping further enhancements until the basics are fixed but pretty much got laughed at. Small cracks in the foundation will lead to huge cracks and collapse later and I think we're headed there unless we can get servers to handle current traffic of all types let alone future traffic that these great new features(and future ones) will obviously lead to.

 

I'm not technically advanced as most are. I don't cache by phone or the other high tech gadgets being used. I just want to come to geocaching.com and get a PQ, search a few caches and log them when I get home, read my owner/watchlist e-mails and maybe access the forums to brag about my days adventures but that is nearly impossible on a daily basis. This is pretty basic geocaching if you ask me. I bet most do just this, I could be wrong....off my soap box. I better go get my weekend PQ's now unless its to late :rolleyes:

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Tequila

+Tequila

Posted
Posted
I don't think there has ever been an increase. It is still a great bargain for what we get. I doubt many would object to a 10% increase.

If they do, I hope they grandfather in the rates current premium members are paying - like what SmugMug (photo sharing site) does - they've raised their fees several times since I joined, but my rates remain the same as when I joined. Not only does it help with higher retention rate and customer loyalty, it would prevent another massive round of geocides and threads about them. And frankly, I'm getting a little tired of reading about geocides.

 

That would be nice but would kind of nullify the point in implementing a price increase.

 

And you don't get grandfathered rates from cable companies, magazines, etc.

 

I have said before that I don't think Groundspeak is starving but I also don't think they are rolling in dough.

 

My guess on the performance issues etc. is the classic IT issue of an operation growing too quickly and now needs a complete redesign from the GROUND up. So to SPEAK. :rolleyes:

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sTeamTraen

+sTeamTraen

Posted
Posted
If Jeremy as founder and CEO of this successful little venture is walking off with about $240,000 per year - he doesn't even qualify as rich under the current thinking in Washington.

Especially as he would have to share that money with two other guys. Last time I checked, none of them had Ferraris. Their Moms must be wondering when they're going to start making some decent money.

 

Groundspeak is a proper company, not just a couple of people running a Web site. It's what going to put several peoples' kids through college. If Jeremy & Co wanted, they could ditch the R&D that goes into other games and make a lot of money on the back of the PMs... for some amount of time. Then something earth-shaking (in Geoworld terms) would happen and they'd be on the street.

 

They have the right amount of people working on the Geocaching.com site, which is "not too many". It's a big complex beast and there is not very much "prior art". If you compare the resources which Groundspeak has compared to "famous" Web sites, you'll see that they are doing amazingly well on uptime by industry standards.

 

Can I have a refund?????

As they say in France (profanity deleted by moderator)

For the last 48 hours I've been trying to log on to the SQL server management page of my ISP, the biggest in France. It just spins, then times out. I've phoned, e-mailed, even asked in the newsgroup (!) which passes for a support forum. This is a company with a billion Euros in annual turnover, with one of their major member benefits - on which people build things more important than a game - down for 48 hours with no news. I pay them $40 every month. Guess I'll just have to wait a bit longer.

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mtn-man

+mtn-man

Posted
Posted

I know you guys read the forums. Groundspeak is responding.

 

No, it's not you. The forums are choking on the traffic we get and that is why you see errors all the time. It's a good idea to check that your post went through or not (even if you get an error) before you resubmit.

 

We're actively working on a replacement for the forum software, which we hope to release some time in the next couple months. I apologize to everyone for the forum performance - it affects me as well so I know it's annoying.

I can only repeat what has been said already. We're working on new forum software to address these issues. Posting about it unfortunately won't make it happen any faster. I'm sorry!

We know Duke. The forum is not built to handle a community of this size so we're looking at replacing it with Community Server. After the next release we will begin development of the new forum.

 

In the meantime, it's helpful to remember that seeing the error in your screenshot, in most cases, does not mean your post didn't go through. You should return to the thread and check to see if what you posted was successful before re-posting. This is the cause of all the double posting we've seen lately.

 

Regarding the web site itself, I've been off and on it all day with no issues today. Are you still experiencing problems with the web site today or still just complaining about a day or two ago? (Actually curious, not trying to be smart.)

 

My guess is that some of the down time might be related to this:

I'll elaborate on my "site is slow" comment a little. Microsoft had 12 hotfixes for us to apply and surprise of surprises, they aren't working right.

 

Until we're able to sort out the issue I'm afraid you'll experience various levels of site performance from "slow but usable" to "omg shoot me". Everything is dropped here until we're back online 100%. Thank you for your patience.

Maybe they are trying to re-apply some of the code changes since the roll-back right before the US Memorial Day holiday weekend and GW7? The site goes off-line as they upload code. They do it during the day during the week so if there are issues they can roll it back or attempt quick fixes. I am guessing, but that might be a good guess don't you think?

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Shilo

+Shilo

Posted
Posted

I know you guys read the forums. Groundspeak is responding.

I try...lol. But yes the forum issue as been addressed with statements. I've had trouble posting and accessing the FORUMS today. Haven't tried gc.com.

 

Regarding the web site itself, I've been off and on it all day with no issues today. Are you still experiencing problems with the web site today or still just complaining about a day or two ago? (Actually curious, not trying to be smart.)

Be careful I have a picture!!! (GGA meeting in May :mad: )

I personally haven't but as I said earlier I haven't tried. But tomorrow is another day if today is going fine.

I saw PQ's had an issue earlier this morning which needed GS attention.

And most of it is still complaining from the other day and the day before that and the time before that.....and OH the trackable auto updating mileage issue still occurring(there's a thread or 3 about it somewhere).

 

Thank you for your patience.

And not enough of this I suppose. :rolleyes: But it gets aggravating sometimes when you make a spur of the moment decision to get onto this site for whatever reason and see "server busy", "the frog is taking a nap" "try again later".

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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted
That would be nice but would kind of nullify the point in implementing a price increase.

 

And you don't get grandfathered rates from cable companies, magazines, etc.

 

I have said before that I don't think Groundspeak is starving but I also don't think they are rolling in dough.

 

My guess on the performance issues etc. is the classic IT issue of an operation growing too quickly and now needs a complete redesign from the GROUND up. So to SPEAK. :rolleyes:

*groan*

 

Jokes aside, I don't have an MBA, just a lowly engineer, so I won't speculate on the difference in revenue stream with grandfathering rates compared to an across the board increase.

 

And cable companies - don't get me started with that. I just had the pleasure of dealing with them yesterday. But, incidentally, my cable broadband rates are sort of grandfathered in because I signed up for a special promotion more than 10 years ago.

 

Regarding the web site itself, I've been off and on it all day with no issues today. Are you still experiencing problems with the web site today or still just complaining about a day or two ago? (Actually curious, not trying to be smart.)

Speaking just for myself, gc.com and the forums are both working fine today. Now let's hit "Add Reply" and see if I cursed myself...

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HayfeverTX

+HayfeverTX

Posted
Posted

I dont have an issue with the website, how its run, or its performance. I was just assuming a way he may be arbitrarily coming up with stats. perhaps he just read the bottom of the main web page, also.

 

There are 823,345 active caches worldwide. In the last 7 days, there have been 658,768 new logs written by 84,170 account holders. Check out the recent logs or photos.

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Gremalkin

+Gremalkin

Posted
Posted

I just had a problem with the site not responding - then getting the "Server Too Busy" error. I came over to the forums, found and skimmed this thread, then tried a refresh. Now not having a problem. :)

 

Not saying that Groundspeak never has performance issues, but aren't there other factors involved that could cause issues - the lines and routing/transmission equipment between your computer and the server. I'm on the East Coast, so I'm sure there's a lot of them between me and Groundspeak. I expect problems getting to sites occasionally. When I get impatient, I just think that 25 years ago I wasn't able to access this wonderful resource called the internet.

 

Just my 2 cents. :laughing:

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GOF and Bacall

GOF and Bacall

Posted
Posted

I just had a problem with the site not responding - then getting the "Server Too Busy" error. I came over to the forums, found and skimmed this thread, then tried a refresh. Now not having a problem. :)

 

Not saying that Groundspeak never has performance issues, but aren't there other factors involved that could cause issues - the lines and routing/transmission equipment between your computer and the server. I'm on the East Coast, so I'm sure there's a lot of them between me and Groundspeak. I expect problems getting to sites occasionally. When I get impatient, I just think that 25 years ago I wasn't able to access this wonderful resource called the internet.

 

Just my 2 cents. :laughing:

 

Very much possible. But keep in mind that we are all having problems with the one site. The odds are that it is the site and not a bunch of users from all over creation.

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baloo&bd

+baloo&bd

Posted
Posted

Very much possible. But keep in mind that we are all having problems with the one site. The odds are that it is the site and not a bunch of users from all over creation.

 

Define "all". In the 6 or so years coming to the site, I have had, other then announced scheduled maintenance, may be 4 or 5 times I have had a problem getting in. Other then one incident a couple weeks ago where it lasted about an hour, usually I simply just refresh or wait a couple minutes on each incident and get right in. And I am in almost, if not, daily.

 

I won't go as far as to say it is absolutely not the site, however it is quite possible that there is an issue farther down the line that could affect users (even in different regions) that is causing the problem and is out of Groundspeaks control.

 

As to comments about money being an issue, I don't think they are getting rich. nor to I think it is a cause here. Having said that, I think if they did decide they needed to do an increase, I think they could do significantly more that 10% and not really have that many leave as a result. Just a little more whining.

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webscouter.

+webscouter.

Posted
Posted

If they need more money they could probably create a platinum membership with nothing more than the platinum tag on the forums for an additional four dollars a quarter and I bet lots of people would pay for it.

 

But a visit to Groundspeak headquarters proved to me that they aren't wasting money, nobody is rich and they are working on a ground up rewrite of the site. Anyone heard of Ver 2.0? I am glad they are taking their time on the rewrite as it will be well thought out and stable. (That is my hope anyway)

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Tequila

+Tequila

Posted
Posted

Very much possible. But keep in mind that we are all having problems with the one site. The odds are that it is the site and not a bunch of users from all over creation.

 

Define "all". In the 6 or so years coming to the site, I have had, other then announced scheduled maintenance, may be 4 or 5 times I have had a problem getting in. Other then one incident a couple weeks ago where it lasted about an hour, usually I simply just refresh or wait a couple minutes on each incident and get right in. And I am in almost, if not, daily.

 

I won't go as far as to say it is absolutely not the site, however it is quite possible that there is an issue farther down the line that could affect users (even in different regions) that is causing the problem and is out of Groundspeaks control.

 

As to comments about money being an issue, I don't think they are getting rich. nor to I think it is a cause here. Having said that, I think if they did decide they needed to do an increase, I think they could do significantly more that 10% and not really have that many leave as a result. Just a little more whining.

 

Don't know how often or when you access the site but I see access issues 4 or 5 times a month at least.

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