Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4
SUp3rFM & Cruella

Airmchair Earthcaches

Recommended Posts

Let's skip that part of:

 

- "Let them play the game as they want"

- "It's not cheating, it's their way of geocaching"

- "Go out geocaching"

 

And all sorts of replies, like those above. :D

 

I've been watching the phenomenon of Earthcaching growing up steadily, as it can be seen by the numbers and also by the quality of many. The movement is positive as it raises awareness to many things that we otherwise wouldn't pay attention.

 

But now, from many examples out there, seems there's now a kind of established way of nailing another smiley in Earthcaches. How? Just know the answers. Even if you weren't there. You just need to manage some bibliography, browse some internet sites and get the answer. Is that really the intention? Shouldn't we pay a visit to the site, or at least be somewhat near of it?

 

I know (read the 1st part of this post)... But, could this kind of (low) earthcache requirements be leading to a creation of new airmchair caches?

Share this post


Link to post

Let's skip that part of:

 

- "Let them play the game as they want"

- "It's not cheating, it's their way of geocaching"

- "Go out geocaching"

 

And all sorts of replies, like those above. :D

 

I've been watching the phenomenon of Earthcaching growing up steadily, as it can be seen by the numbers and also by the quality of many. The movement is positive as it raises awareness to many things that we otherwise wouldn't pay attention.

 

But now, from many examples out there, seems there's now a kind of established way of nailing another smiley in Earthcaches. How? Just know the answers. Even if you weren't there. You just need to manage some bibliography, browse some internet sites and get the answer. Is that really the intention? Shouldn't we pay a visit to the site, or at least be somewhat near of it?

 

I know (read the 1st part of this post)... But, could this kind of (low) earthcache requirements be leading to a creation of new airmchair caches?

 

I think that this is a fairly simple case. Geoaware has made it clear that we are to be visiting the site and learning something, to the degree that the owner now has to have gone there to actually place it. (Or at least thats the way I understood it.)

 

I am a geologist. I "know" the answers to many of the EC's out there. I have access to a lot of very specilized publications that the general public would have a hard time getting to read. I really don't like the photo requirements that seem to be on many of the EC's lately but they do help establish you were there.

 

Many of us would never try to log something without going to the location, and I personally would hope that any owner would delete logs of cachers who try to log EC's just because they already know the answers and haven't actually been to the location.

Share this post


Link to post

Let's skip that part of:

 

- "Let them play the game as they want"

- "It's not cheating, it's their way of geocaching"

- "Go out geocaching"

 

And all sorts of replies, like those above. :P

 

I've been watching the phenomenon of Earthcaching growing up steadily, as it can be seen by the numbers and also by the quality of many. The movement is positive as it raises awareness to many things that we otherwise wouldn't pay attention.

 

But now, from many examples out there, seems there's now a kind of established way of nailing another smiley in Earthcaches. How? Just know the answers. Even if you weren't there. You just need to manage some bibliography, browse some internet sites and get the answer. Is that really the intention? Shouldn't we pay a visit to the site, or at least be somewhat near of it?

 

I know (read the 1st part of this post)... But, could this kind of (low) earthcache requirements be leading to a creation of new airmchair caches?

THAT IS WHY I REQUIRE A PICTURE AT THE SITE(another heated topic)

Share this post


Link to post

I personally think that an EC whose main task is to have a picture of you at the site and little else is a weak EC. I understand all the conspiracy theorists that must make sure that they were actually at the site.

I choose to believe that people are generally interested in the geological phenomena out there so they miss out if they don't go there.

 

I let you in on a small secret with my EC's.

They are basic enough for anyone to get the answers right. The questions are structured such that you will either get it right or wrong.

To those who send wrong answers I can always check if you were actually at the site or not. If I see that you were there and tried but got some of it wrong, then the response e-mail normally has an attachment with the correct answers. However, I can normally spot the cheaters a mile away and the response e-mail is always the same: "Correct. Please log your find".

 

Now the purists will be clamouring and up in arms: - "you do not help anyone with that sort of answers".

I don't care. After all it's all about the numbers and what counts is another smiley as Sup3r as put it. The cheaters are just after another find not any other knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post

I like to try and devise at least one question for my ECs which requires the person to physically visit the site to correctly answer. I like photos with ECs logs too; guess I'm old fashioned. How important the photo is to the logging requirements is related to how good a question I came up with.

Share this post


Link to post

Let's skip that part of:

 

- "Let them play the game as they want"

- "It's not cheating, it's their way of geocaching"

- "Go out geocaching"

 

And all sorts of replies, like those above. :P

 

I've been watching the phenomenon of Earthcaching growing up steadily, as it can be seen by the numbers and also by the quality of many. The movement is positive as it raises awareness to many things that we otherwise wouldn't pay attention.

 

But now, from many examples out there, seems there's now a kind of established way of nailing another smiley in Earthcaches. How? Just know the answers. Even if you weren't there. You just need to manage some bibliography, browse some internet sites and get the answer. Is that really the intention? Shouldn't we pay a visit to the site, or at least be somewhat near of it?

 

I know (read the 1st part of this post)... But, could this kind of (low) earthcache requirements be leading to a creation of new airmchair caches?

 

Thanks you for your kind words regarding EarthCaching. You are right about how the game could be played. Just like with puzzle and multi caches, the answers can get passed around but most of us create questions that can only answered by physically going to the cache.

I don't want to open the old photo or no photo can of worms but that's something that helps keep cachers honest.

Your statement, " it raises awareness to many things that we otherwise wouldn't pay attention.", is what it is all about! It is not the numbers or showing off our knowledge of geology, which I have very little, it's the fun of bringing folks to nice places! One thing about ECs, even the most lazy cacher cannot just cut and paste a simple log like TFTC! Most have to write something positive about their experience. :P

Share this post


Link to post

The best thing to do would be to have an activity that is directly related to the visit.

It’s like anything in life, those who a going to “cheat” will always find a way to accomplish that goal. I can only hope they spend more time and effort in that than if they actually did things properly. All of that for just a “smiley” :P:P:P

Share this post


Link to post

I like to try and devise at least one question for my ECs which requires the person to physically visit the site to correctly answer. I like photos with ECs logs too; guess I'm old fashioned. How important the photo is to the logging requirements is related to how good a question I came up with.

 

Agreed - I ask for a photo on a good number of my EC's - but if the cacher explains why a photo was not possibl - I generally accept it. Especially as most of my EC's have an additional "measurement" or observation element required too. They must not simply ignore the photo request.

 

The best thing to do would be to have an activity that is directly related to the visit.

It’s like anything in life, those who a going to “cheat” will always find a way to accomplish that goal. I can only hope they spend more time and effort in that than if they actually did things properly. All of that for just a “smiley” :D:D:D

 

Agreed - those that "cheat" will continue anyway. I often check that the cacher (normally a foreign visitor) also found nearby caches too. Also with newbies I "coach" them through the process of EC's as some complain they did not find a container and log a DNF.

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed - those that "cheat" will continue anyway. I often check that the cacher (normally a foreign visitor) also found nearby caches too. Also with newbies I "coach" them through the process of EC's as some complain they did not find a container and log a DNF.

 

Life is too short to play policeman all the time.

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed - those that "cheat" will continue anyway. I often check that the cacher (normally a foreign visitor) also found nearby caches too. Also with newbies I "coach" them through the process of EC's as some complain they did not find a container and log a DNF.

 

Life is too short to play policeman all the time.

This is Lt. Columbo reporting for duty! Just kidding, I totally agree and I know I am showing my age with the reference to Lt. Columbo.

Seriously, I kinda get caught between being totally permissive (no wise cracks wanted, heh, heh) and thinking is that fair to others who want the educational experience and try hard to fulfill the requirements?

Rarely do I think someone is a absolute fraud.

I have something going on a few of my caches now that sorta smells with the same cacher who is visiting the US. I don't want to be a rude host but I just don't know. If I cannot solve it, maybe I can ask you folks to take a look. :laughing:

Share this post


Link to post

I'll be honest, some stuff some people want you to do to claim the earthcache is pretty ridiculous

 

Measure how far you are from the rock and then guess how high it might be if the gravitational pull of the earth was X then divide that by the number of finds I have and you have...etc...

 

I've only found a few but they are fun lessons about the earth and enjoyed the locations.

 

Honestly if you take a picture at the location and post it with your log that should be the only true requirement.

Share this post


Link to post

I'll be honest, some stuff some people want you to do to claim the earthcache is pretty ridiculous

 

Measure how far you are from the rock and then guess how high it might be if the gravitational pull of the earth was X then divide that by the number of finds I have and you have...etc...

 

I've only found a few but they are fun lessons about the earth and enjoyed the locations.

 

Honestly if you take a picture at the location and post it with your log that should be the only true requirement.

 

I think so too but that isn't the rule.

Share this post


Link to post

I'll be honest, some stuff some people want you to do to claim the earthcache is pretty ridiculous

 

Measure how far you are from the rock and then guess how high it might be if the gravitational pull of the earth was X then divide that by the number of finds I have and you have...etc...

 

I've only found a few but they are fun lessons about the earth and enjoyed the locations.

 

Honestly if you take a picture at the location and post it with your log that should be the only true requirement.

 

I think so too but that isn't the rule.

 

I agree that sometimes we can get carried away with logging requirements. Please folks remember that 99.9% of EarthCachers/geocachers are non-geologists who wouldn't mind learning a little bit about geology with emphasis on the "little bit"! They are certainly not like me who has jumped into geology's deep pool and is just now learning how to swim!

Just the other day, I had a good friend, who is a geocacher, reply to my urging to find more ECs state, "there are two problems with EarthCaches, one, too long on the cache descriptions and second, too many goofy logging requirements!" Those opinions are shared by a lot of folks out there. :D

By the way.....Happy Forth of July to All! :anitongue:

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

Share this post


Link to post

Happy Fourth! as well.

We do have to remember that what sets an EarthCache apart is the educational task. Sometimes what makes that part difficult is making it something a non-geologist can easily do and appreciate their results. I will soon be submitting an EC that is at an alluvial fill terrace site. It is also at a Historical site where no sampling can be done. it would be easy to say take a core sample and describe it, but that cannot be done. I will try working with the staff to have such a core sample from their previous excavations displayed, but that may be a long way off.

In the mean time I will be asking for an estimate of the elevation change and descriptions of the view both below and behind the terrace. Is that lame? It could be considered that. but I believe the site is well worth being developed now and to pursue developing a better lesson as well.

Share this post


Link to post

Ah. Hmm... I will admit that there were a few we passed by, because of the need to log nine different things that ddn't seem to have anything to do with the geological feature. "What is the seventh letter in the name of the company that made the plaque?" Have I learnt anything knowing that the shale was formed during the Ordovician period? No. Not really. Though both of those should show that I was actually there.

Estimating is a different question. I can't estimate how many fingers I have on my right hand! Okay that rock cut looks like 70'. Cache owner said that it was actually 148'. Estimate the depth of the river. Danged if I know! What does it prove? Absolutely nothing. :D

OTOH, as a former AT hiker, I enjoyed determining the flow of the spring. I'm sure it varies from month to month, but it was interesting and informative. Show me something interesting and teach me something. Then I have no problem telling you the seventh letter in the name of the company that made the plaque. But don't ask me nine different meaningless things.

Share this post


Link to post

My favourite request (apart from the direct observatiosn) - iws merely to describe the spot and what the finders found interesting - whether it be a bird they saw, the weather, a snake they almost stood on or just that they were feeling really flustered.

 

I even had one guy comment on the girls swimming on the nearby beach - nothing about the physical environment!

Share this post


Link to post
Honestly if you take a picture at the location and post it with your log that should be the only true requirement.

And that, my Friend, disqualifies your Cache from being an Earthcache. You may want to read the requirements on earthcache.org. It's about learning something about the site you're at, not google+photoshop.

 

There's no word on that site that you may bully people into putting their pictures online (which is a violation of constitutional rights in most western countries.)

 

BTT - You'll never be able to prevent cheaters as there will always be a way to circumvent whateve control element you put in place.

Your want a picture? I can photoshop one that looks better than the real thing. Hell I'll put Elvis in the picture and claim he was there too!

 

You can see the the same thing for the other caches. There are statistics lovers out there that claim they have done 175 caches in a day and 100 on the day before and after (100 for each of the days.). Is this possible? do the maths and estimate how big the distributed team must have been to achieve this. I have no idea of what the point of claiming 175 caches in a day but on the other hand I'm not really interested.

 

So the baseline is is someone claims a log and wasn't there just let him. Let him log all the caches in the world. Who cares? It's his loss, not yours. Cheaters just spoil their own fun in this case.

 

Bullying people just because you are the owner and can do so spoils the fun for a lot of people and defeats the purpose of an earthcache.

 

Take a look at the worst example of such harrassment:

GC1GBWA - Iguazu Falls

2 DNF logs (one being a note) of people who have actally been there. The Reason? No GPS visible in the picture. Take a look at the gallery and guess which of the pictures have been photoshopped and which are legit..;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Honestly if you take a picture at the location and post it with your log that should be the only true requirement.

And that, my Friend, disqualifies your Cache from being an Earthcache. You may want to read the requirements on earthcache.org. It's about learning something about the site you're at, not google+photoshop.

 

There's no word on that site that you may bully people into putting their pictures online (which is a violation of constitutional rights in most western countries.)

 

BTT - You'll never be able to prevent cheaters as there will always be a way to circumvent whateve control element you put in place.

Your want a picture? I can photoshop one that looks better than the real thing. Hell I'll put Elvis in the picture and claim he was there too!

 

You can see the the same thing for the other caches. There are statistics lovers out there that claim they have done 175 caches in a day and 100 on the day before and after (100 for each of the days.). Is this possible? do the maths and estimate how big the distributed team must have been to achieve this. I have no idea of what the point of claiming 175 caches in a day but on the other hand I'm not really interested.

 

So the baseline is is someone claims a log and wasn't there just let him. Let him log all the caches in the world. Who cares? It's his loss, not yours. Cheaters just spoil their own fun in this case.

 

Bullying people just because you are the owner and can do so spoils the fun for a lot of people and defeats the purpose of an earthcache.

 

Take a look at the worst example of such harrassment:

GC1GBWA - Iguazu Falls

2 DNF logs (one being a note) of people who have actally been there. The Reason? No GPS visible in the picture. Take a look at the gallery and guess which of the pictures have been photoshopped and which are legit..;-)

 

You need to cool off! Your insult of the GC1GBWA - Iguazu Falls EC is totally unnecessary.

Right or wrong, here are the guidelines from Groundspeak, "The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements."

 

Why are you picking on the Falls EC when, unless I missed something, you haven't even been there? The EC developer was honorable enough to allow the DNF logs wihout deleting them.

You have used two different threads to express your distain for the total EC community? That's over doing the point. You can always start a new thread to make it three!

You haven't found (three) or placed (zero) enough ECs to make you an expert in what needs to be done. Experience does count! You take one example and blow it up to a fact that, "I appreciate most people are unable to delevop a proper educational cache but this is the core requirement." (Taken from the other thread where you rant regarding the same subject) That's a little snarky!

With that condemnation, you must think that Geoaware and the entire EC community are dumb a___s and you are smarter than the rest of us! All ECs are approved by Geoaware and not much slips by them! Your statement is not fair and we suggest removing that very big chip from your shoulder! ECers are not perfect. Geoaware is not perfect I don't know anyone who is and that my friend includes you. You have the right but it is ill mannered to condemn so many people! If you got a legitimate point to make, you loose it when you become so catagorical! :o

Edited by Konnarock Kid & Marge

Share this post


Link to post

In line with the topic, shouldn't the Earth cache "listee" actually visit the site before listing the Earthcache?

 

The reason I am asking is that I have seen one that the listee cut and pasted a description from another persons personal web-page, as well lifted the photos, and listed it as an Earthcache, but has never actually been there, themselves.

 

Just wondering the general consensus on this...

Share this post


Link to post

In line with the topic, shouldn't the Earth cache "listee" actually visit the site before listing the Earthcache?

 

The reason I am asking is that I have seen one that the listee cut and pasted a description from another persons personal web-page, as well lifted the photos, and listed it as an Earthcache, but has never actually been there, themselves.

 

Just wondering the general consensus on this...

Of course, the "listee" or EC developer should have actually visited the site. I would feel that any listing of mine that I didn't visit would be counterfeit!

P.S. iIalso believe it is a requirement from Geoaware? :(

Share this post


Link to post

@Konnarock Kid & Marge: You are not the EarthCaching Community and you don't speak for the vast majority of the EarthCaching Community. You are obviously ignoring geoaware though.

Maybe you should look at least a little closer at GC1GBWA as you have missed the point entirely.

Otherwise your post has basically nothing to do with mine, so pardon me if I just ignore it.

 

@Hockeyhick: Konnarock and TerryDad2 stated: To have been on site is a requirement (for the developer ;-)). It's almost impossible to come up with "educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site".

It might even be a copyright infrigement to have borrowed the picture and discriptions (e.g. violation of the wikipedia license is the norm).

Share this post


Link to post

I just deleted (archived) my first logs. My new EarthCache that was developed for this years ASP GeoBash got over 100 hits the first weekend it was out. Most folks have answered the requirements and posted pics but there were three who all posted only "cool", "sweet", "TFTC"....no answers, no pictures...and after an email requesting the requirements went unanswered...no smilie :D

Share this post


Link to post

 

P.S. iIalso believe it is a requirement from Geoaware? :D

I have seen that requirement as well.

No, I haven't even been tempted to cheat and not visit a site. I would probably get the coordinates all goofed up! Geoaware and I know of a case where this was tried multiple times by one ill fated cacher. In one case coordinates were listed foe a waterfall but the actual coordinates took you to a dry hill side about a half mile away. So the moral of the story, don't cheat and do go to the site! :D

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4

×
×
  • Create New...