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Geocaching Event North Manitou Island June 21, 2006


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GC1NVJP

 

Are you up for a 5/5 event? :ph34r: Perhaps you are wondering how a 1 hr event could possibly have a 5/5 rating?

 

Well the event is located on a wilderness island 10 miles for the shores of Leeland, Michigan (MAP). There is a ferry but it only comes once a day with no layover. So this means in order to attend this event you will be required to have Special Gear (boat & camping gear) and the outdoor skills required to survive at least one night in the wilderness. The island boast of virtually no amenities. there is no food, electricity, hotels, or shelter of any kind available on the island. You must carry in everything you need.

 

For those who do survive we will see you on Sunday morning near the dock. GOOD LUCK to those who dare! :o

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Terrain:

Since the only access is via expensive commercial ferry, private boat, or swimming, I'll agree with the 5-star terrain. Caches on islands with public ferries, especially if people live full-time on the island, would not qualify (no difference between a public ferry and a toll road).

 

Difficulty:

I fail to see any way to justify listing this as a 5-star difficulty. You show up at the designated location (ranger station) at the designated time (9AM) and sign the log. Classic 1-star event. A simple one-night primitive camping requirement is not a 5-star difficulty requirement. So unless you're planning on sneaking around the night before and stealing people's GPS receivers, or hiding the ranger station in a remote corner of the island, or releasing a pack of rabid squirrel monkeys, this is NOT a difficulty 5.

 

But you didn't come here to ask what we thought about your rating, you came here to advertise the event. So now you get credit for listing (and probably also for attending) a 5/5 event, whether it meets the guidelines or not.

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Terrain:

Since the only access is via expensive commercial ferry, private boat, or swimming, I'll agree with the 5-star terrain. Caches on islands with public ferries, especially if people live full-time on the island, would not qualify (no difference between a public ferry and a toll road).

 

Difficulty:

I fail to see any way to justify listing this as a 5-star difficulty. You show up at the designated location (ranger station) at the designated time (9AM) and sign the log. Classic 1-star event. A simple one-night primitive camping requirement is not a 5-star difficulty requirement. So unless you're planning on sneaking around the night before and stealing people's GPS receivers, or hiding the ranger station in a remote corner of the island, or releasing a pack of rabid squirrel monkeys, this is NOT a difficulty 5.

 

But you didn't come here to ask what we thought about your rating, you came here to advertise the event. So now you get credit for listing (and probably also for attending) a 5/5 event, whether it meets the guidelines or not.

 

They'll be camouflaging the picnic area, perhaps? And requiring all attendees to wear camo? LOL!

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GC1NVJP

 

Are you up for a 5/5 event? :blink: Perhaps you are wondering how a 1 hr event could possibly have a 5/5 rating?

 

Well the event is located on a wilderness island 10 miles for the shores of Leeland, Michigan (MAP). There is a ferry but it only comes once a day with no layover. So this means in order to attend this event you will be required to have Special Gear (boat & camping gear) and the outdoor skills required to survive at least one night in the wilderness. The island boast of virtually no amenities. there is no food, electricity, hotels, or shelter of any kind available on the island. You must carry in everything you need.

 

For those who do survive we will see you on Sunday morning near the dock. GOOD LUCK to those who dare! :P

Okay... your post is BEYOND weird. Is it a joke? Exactly how many people do you expect to attend an event that was held 3 years ago? At the best, perhaps two of us MIGHT have access to a time portal, and even that is a long shot. And, even if someone DID have access to a time portal, I doubt that they would feel that it would be worth traveling back in time simply to attend an event held THREE YEARS AGO!

 

Very strange. I assume that this whole thread is some kind of "insiders" joke that has some kind of secret meaning known only to the cachers in your region, and, if that is the case, the it is best that the moderators move your thread to the appropriate regional section of the forum.

 

And, one last note, a question for you: If you ARE serious, are YOU planning on traveling back in time and attending this even yourself? If so, how?

 

strange...

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....................

 

Difficulty:

I fail to see any way to justify listing this as a 5-star difficulty. You show up at the designated location (ranger station) at the designated time (9AM) and sign the log. Classic 1-star event. A simple one-night primitive camping requirement is not a 5-star difficulty requirement. So unless you're planning on sneaking around the night before and stealing people's GPS receivers, or hiding the ranger station in a remote corner of the island, or releasing a pack of rabid squirrel monkeys, this is NOT a difficulty 5.

 

..................

 

You are not the first person to question our difficulty rating in the forums and I am confident that you will not be the last. We have rated the event as a 5 difficulty because In order to attend we expect attendees will need to:

 

- Research and plan their trip (including the park rules, terrain, weather and other hazards etc.)

- Research, Acquire and Pack all the necessary gear... This includes food, cookware, stove, shelter, water filtration, Shovel to dig a latrine etc.

- Exercise - get in physical shape - Last year my group and I group traveled 32 miles in 3 days on the island. Most of which we were carrying our fully loaded packs (75+LBS) This years goal is to cut that waaayyy back on weight.

- practice/learn outdoor skills. this includes setting up shelter and preparing meals with only the tools available on the trail.

- Have the guts to hop off the boat and leave the world behind. Once attendees step off the ferry they are on their own. There is no turning back, no stores or restaurants to eat at; no hotel rooms to rent in case of a really nasty thunderstorm etc..

 

Based on the scores of hours I have spent researching, shopping, exercising, and refining my outdoor skills; I am confident that our rating is spot on.

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You are not the first person to question our difficulty rating in the forums and I am confident that you will not be the last. We have rated the event as a 5 difficulty because In order to attend we expect attendees will need to:

- Research and plan their trip (including the park rules, terrain, weather and other hazards etc.)

I do this for EVERY trip, as do lots of cachers. This is basic stuff, and nothing that would indicate a 5-star difficulty.

 

- Research, Acquire and Pack all the necessary gear... This includes food, cookware, stove, shelter, water filtration, Shovel to dig a latrine etc.

You need all that gear to hang around for 24 hours away from civilization? Seriously? The boat shows up at 11:00AM on the 20th, kicks you off, then leaves. Exactly one day later the same boat arrives at 11:00AM and you get on for the ride back. A light pack with some food and water, and maybe a blanket/towel, is all you need, assuming there are primitive toilet facilities near the ranger station. Tents, sleeping bags, cookware, stoves, bug-spray, etc. would make you more comfortable, but are not necessary for survival for a single night.

 

- Exercise - get in physical shape - Last year my group and I group traveled 32 miles in 3 days on the island. Most of which we were carrying our fully loaded packs (75+LBS) This years goal is to cut that waaayyy back on weight.

WHY??? Is all that part of the Event? You mentioned at least a 24-hour layover, so I'm assuming you won't let people cruise over the day of the event on a private boat, arrive at 8:59AM, and sign the log, correct? If the 32-mile trek isn't required to log the event, then you can't include in the ratings. Besides, a 32-mile trek is purely terrain, not difficulty.

 

- practice/learn outdoor skills. this includes setting up shelter and preparing meals with only the tools available on the trail.

Same comment as your second point. None of this is required to survive 24-hours away from civilization.

 

- Have the guts to hop off the boat and leave the world behind. Once attendees step off the ferry they are on their own. There is no turning back, no stores or restaurants to eat at; no hotel rooms to rent in case of a really nasty thunderstorm etc..

Again, this is the same point using slightly different words.

 

Based on the scores of hours I have spent researching, shopping, exercising, and refining my outdoor skills; I am confident that our rating is spot on.

Ummm... I wouldn't advertise the fact that it's taken you that long to prepare for 24-hours away from civilization.

 

If participants are required to join in the 32-mile, 3-day camping trip to log this event, then you ARE approaching a 5-star difficulty because of the requirement for extra gear (quite a few people will insist this is still all terrain, not difficulty). But if all an attendee has to accomplish is miss a few hours of TV and suffer a few bug bites, then you're only trying to fool yourself. If I were in the area I'd love to join you on the 3-day primitive trek. It sounds like an awesome time. But if it isn't required to log the event, then you can't count it.

 

Analogy time: Lets say I parked my car at southern trail head for the Appalachian trail on Springer Mt., Georgia. I then walked over 2100-miles along said trail to Mt. Katahdin, Maine. I then hid a film can in the parking lot at the northing trail head. Based on your logic, because I took the harder route and because others *might* also choose to take that route, I could rate it as a 5/5. But in reality it's a 1.5/1.5. How should I rate it?

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I dare say the chap objecting so strenuously to the rating has no intention of attending said event anyway. 'Tis often the way.

 

But on to items of greater pith. If you're including time travel, why pick a nondescript year as 2006? I barely remember it already. How about 1975? I was 9 that summer, and my greatest joy was to ride my Schwinn Stingray up and down the driveway, all day long. The rest of the USA may have been teetering on the brink of collapse, but I had a bike, a long driveway, and a bunch of bright summer days stretching out to the blue horizon. Good times, good times.

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I dare say the chap objecting so strenuously to the rating has no intention of attending said event anyway. 'Tis often the way.

Correct. Incidentally, I couldn't care less how they rate events up there, and I never had the vaguest notion that they would even consider changing the ratings to actually follow the standards of this site. Especially since they didn't change the ratings when they had the exact same event last year, bragged about it in the forums, and were criticized for several pages.

 

But if you're going to advertise an over-rated event in the international forums, expect to be criticized. Maybe others will read the objections and not try to mock the rating system so they can brag about hosting and/or attending a "5/5 event".

Edited by J-Way
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J-Way

 

I am curious, (in your opinion) is it possible to have a 5/5 event?

 

If so I am curious what you might suggest an event host would need to do to justify a 5/5 rating on an event?

 

(other than the obvious time travel which several other people have already affirmed would justify a 5/5 rating)

 

I am thinking that with few exceptions you could argue that just about any location in the world is not difficult to get to if you have enough money. Heck you can even buy a trip to the International space station if you have the money.

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I dare say the chap objecting so strenuously to the rating has no intention of attending said event anyway. 'Tis often the way.

 

But on to items of greater pith. If you're including time travel, why pick a nondescript year as 2006? I barely remember it already. How about 1975? I was 9 that summer, and my greatest joy was to ride my Schwinn Stingray up and down the driveway, all day long. The rest of the USA may have been teetering on the brink of collapse, but I had a bike, a long driveway, and a bunch of bright summer days stretching out to the blue horizon. Good times, good times.

 

To you first point... Yes, seems this is often the case in the forums :P

 

and to your second point... 1975? Do you have any idea how much Di-ithium Crystal it takes to go back in time that far? I am trying to keep our event affordable. :P

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J-Way

 

I am curious, (in your opinion) is it possible to have a 5/5 event?

 

If so I am curious what you might suggest an event host would need to do to justify a 5/5 rating on an event?

 

(other than the obvious time travel which several other people have already affirmed would justify a 5/5 rating)

 

I am thinking that with few exceptions you could argue that just about any location in the world is not difficult to get to if you have enough money. Heck you can even buy a trip to the International space station if you have the money.

Thank you for asking. In your justification for rating this event 5-stars in difficulty you've provided many details pertaining to your actual plans for the weekend in question. You will require a multi-day supply of food (unless your planning on eating off the land... I read something about managed deer hunting on the island), water filtration supplies, shelter from the elements, navigation, carrying enough backup batteries to be able to use a GPS receiver to find the departure point (after all, GPS usage is a requirement before you can list it on geocaching.com), deodorant, etc. This event, IMHO, easily qualifies as a 5-star difficulty. The one you actually listed, where someone could cruise over on a boat the morning of the 21st in time to sign the log at 9:00AM, does not qualify. No offense intended, but a small child could survive 24-hours away from civilization, in the summer, on an isolated island, with no predators. Said child would be hungry, thirsty, whiny, scared, and quite miserable when the boat arrived the next day, but the child would be alive. Increase the time frame to 3-4 days and things get much more interesting.

 

You could modify your event so that attendees must gather at a set time on a set day (say, 11:05AM at the dock on the 18th) to sign a check-in log. Then the entire group must stay together or must have some way to verify no one leaves the island daily until the final gathering at 9:00 AM on the 21st. In effect, modify the requirements of the event such that ALL attendees must do what you and your core group of hardy survivalists are planning to do anyway. Make 'em earn those stars.

 

Some people will still say this will not qualify as a 5-star difficulty. But these people are obviously nay-saying nincompoops who only want to get their hands on your dilithium crystals. They are of even less importance to the grand scheme of life than I am. :P

 

I seriously wish I could attend, but you're a little far from my normal caching range, plus I used up all my scarce wife-allocated caching days during and around Geowoodstock VII. My allowance went WAY down when she went and got knocked up. :P

Edited by J-Way
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While I concede that it is theoretically possible for a person to show up to the event without earning the 5-star difficulty rating.. BUT I am confident that it will not happen...

 

For example if a person did show up in their own private boat the day of the event... I assume that attendee would need the knowledge and experience to navigate a large vessel 10 miles out into Lake Michigan through a busy shipping channel. Thus still earning the 5 star difficulty even if it is a different adventure than the rest of us chose.

 

For the person that rides the ferry over on Saturday and just hangs out on the island for 24hrs. I think this persons adventure would still earn them a 5 star difficulty. Submitting themselves to the weather and sleeping under the stars with none of the most basic amenities that we take for granted every single day.

 

I am confident that everyone that shows up on Sunday will have earned the right to log a 5/5 event.

 

But I do thank you for the debate... I do enjoy a good debate...

 

BTW - Assuming we survive North Manitou this year we have talked about doing a different island next year. Perhaps Isle Royal National Park.

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....................

 

Difficulty:

I fail to see any way to justify listing this as a 5-star difficulty. You show up at the designated location (ranger station) at the designated time (9AM) and sign the log. Classic 1-star event. A simple one-night primitive camping requirement is not a 5-star difficulty requirement. So unless you're planning on sneaking around the night before and stealing people's GPS receivers, or hiding the ranger station in a remote corner of the island, or releasing a pack of rabid squirrel monkeys, this is NOT a difficulty 5.

 

..................

 

You are not the first person to question our difficulty rating in the forums and I am confident that you will not be the last. We have rated the event as a 5 difficulty because In order to attend we expect attendees will need to:

 

- Research and plan their trip (including the park rules, terrain, weather and other hazards etc.)

 

 

 

throw in some rabid squirrel monkeys and it will be fun.

 

- Research, Acquire and Pack all the necessary gear... This includes food, cookware, stove, shelter, water filtration, Shovel to dig a latrine etc.

- Exercise - get in physical shape - Last year my group and I group traveled 32 miles in 3 days on the island. Most of which we were carrying our fully loaded packs (75+LBS) This years goal is to cut that waaayyy back on weight.

- practice/learn outdoor skills. this includes setting up shelter and preparing meals with only the tools available on the trail.

- Have the guts to hop off the boat and leave the world behind. Once attendees step off the ferry they are on their own. There is no turning back, no stores or restaurants to eat at; no hotel rooms to rent in case of a really nasty thunderstorm etc..

 

Based on the scores of hours I have spent researching, shopping, exercising, and refining my outdoor skills; I am confident that our rating is spot on.

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You are not the first person to question our difficulty rating in the forums and I am confident that you will not be the last. We have rated the event as a 5 difficulty because In order to attend we expect attendees will need to:

- Research and plan their trip (including the park rules, terrain, weather and other hazards etc.)

I do this for EVERY trip, as do lots of cachers. This is basic stuff, and nothing that would indicate a 5-star difficulty.

 

- Research, Acquire and Pack all the necessary gear... This includes food, cookware, stove, shelter, water filtration, Shovel to dig a latrine etc.

You need all that gear to hang around for 24 hours away from civilization? Seriously? The boat shows up at 11:00AM on the 20th, kicks you off, then leaves. Exactly one day later the same boat arrives at 11:00AM and you get on for the ride back. A light pack with some food and water, and maybe a blanket/towel, is all you need, assuming there are primitive toilet facilities near the ranger station. Tents, sleeping bags, cookware, stoves, bug-spray, etc. would make you more comfortable, but are not necessary for survival for a single night.

 

- Exercise - get in physical shape - Last year my group and I group traveled 32 miles in 3 days on the island. Most of which we were carrying our fully loaded packs (75+LBS) This years goal is to cut that waaayyy back on weight.

WHY??? Is all that part of the Event? You mentioned at least a 24-hour layover, so I'm assuming you won't let people cruise over the day of the event on a private boat, arrive at 8:59AM, and sign the log, correct? If the 32-mile trek isn't required to log the event, then you can't include in the ratings. Besides, a 32-mile trek is purely terrain, not difficulty.

 

- practice/learn outdoor skills. this includes setting up shelter and preparing meals with only the tools available on the trail.

Same comment as your second point. None of this is required to survive 24-hours away from civilization.

 

- Have the guts to hop off the boat and leave the world behind. Once attendees step off the ferry they are on their own. There is no turning back, no stores or restaurants to eat at; no hotel rooms to rent in case of a really nasty thunderstorm etc..

Again, this is the same point using slightly different words.

 

Based on the scores of hours I have spent researching, shopping, exercising, and refining my outdoor skills; I am confident that our rating is spot on.

Ummm... I wouldn't advertise the fact that it's taken you that long to prepare for 24-hours away from civilization.

 

If participants are required to join in the 32-mile, 3-day camping trip to log this event, then you ARE approaching a 5-star difficulty because of the requirement for extra gear (quite a few people will insist this is still all terrain, not difficulty). But if all an attendee has to accomplish is miss a few hours of TV and suffer a few bug bites, then you're only trying to fool yourself. If I were in the area I'd love to join you on the 3-day primitive trek. It sounds like an awesome time. But if it isn't required to log the event, then you can't count it.

 

Analogy time: Lets say I parked my car at southern trail head for the Appalachian trail on Springer Mt., Georgia. I then walked over 2100-miles along said trail to Mt. Katahdin, Maine. I then hid a film can in the parking lot at the northing trail head. Based on your logic, because I took the harder route and because others *might* also choose to take that route, I could rate it as a 5/5. But in reality it's a 1.5/1.5. How should I rate it?

 

J-Way - You echo my thoughts exactly on this one. Thanks for being so literate and thoughtful. As for the overnight trip where you said a child could do this - I DID do this when I WAS FIVE! AND MY BIG BROTHER WAS 6! (just the 2 of us - no parents) Sure, we were a little cranky but we survived. I now do these overnight backpacking trips as a matter of fact. Sure to an urbanite with no background with living outdoors it might be a big deal but definitely not for me. My personal rating for this would be a 2/3 D/T but admittedly that's a bit subjective. But in comparison to some real 5***** difficulty caches out there, this is nowhere near that difficulty.

 

P.S. SunshineGang: Thanks for deleting my log and pointing me to the Forum to air my opinion. I wasn't 100% comfortable with leaving my question on the log page.

Edited by Roarmeister
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I seriously wish I could attend, but you're a little far from my normal caching range, plus I used up all my scarce wife-allocated caching days during and around Geowoodstock VII. My allowance went WAY down when she went and got knocked up. ;)
While we're splitting hairs... :D

 

Technically, she didn't get knocked up, you knocked her up.

 

If I'm wrong on that, I think it's time for you to re-negotiate for some more caching time. :)

Edited by Too Tall John
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Roarmeister & 9Key

 

I would like to ask you the same question I asked J-way

 

In your opinion - Is it possible to have a 5 star difficulty Event? and if so what might such an event include to justify the rating?

 

A 5 ***** terrain event would be fairly easy to justify; but I think a 5***** difficulty is a bit more subjective.

 

An event located at a mountain top would qualify for terrain. ;) A local cache that I probably would have qualified as a 5**** terrain is GC12WXH. The owner classed it as a 5***** difficulty as well but later changed the page to include the waypoints so that the user doesn't have to figure them out along the route. I haven't tried this yet but it was potentially correct as far as difficulty but is likely a 3 or 4 now.

 

Possibly an extrodinary difficult puzzle (or series of puzzles) or multi-cache to even find the final event location would qualify for high difficulty. I've heard of extreme caches where there is the need to either solve something right away (Indiana Jones style) or go back home and do some serious research to find the next waypoint (as in a Sherlock Holmes mystery). Or possibly the event log could be put in an extreme location/position at the event so that in order to sign it you had to do some extrodinary physical thing to get to it. GC.com suggests that "Difficulty relates to the mental challenge of finding a cache." That said, just because an event is extremely physical to get to, there could be but not automatically, a difficult mental challenge associated with that as well. I just don't think that you can assign a 5***** difficulty based on the physical component or "special equipment required" only.

 

I have seen some difficult puzzles out there (difficult to a blockhead like me, but others seem to have little trouble! :D that have taken a while to solve or require a person to have specialized knowledge or to do a lot of research to obtain the correct answer. Some of those, I am just NOT very good at figuring out and it take me ages to figure out without any help from a friend.

 

Thanks for the debate. I hope my rationale provides some food for thought. For further debate, search out "extreme caches" in the forums. Some of them are outrageously difficult and might be applicable to this discussion. A true 5/5 event might only have a couple adventureous people even show up to congratulate each other!!! With only a couple of successfull cachers showing up, it really goes against the intent of having an EVENT doesn't it? JMHO.

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Everything is relative...

 

In the backpacking world I am confident that this trip is not an extreme adventure, perhaps it would only get a 2/2 rating... if that... (assuming a scale of 1-5 where 5 is the most extreme)

 

However, I did not post this event in the Backpacking World, I posted it in the Geocaching World. In the Geocaching world the average event is hosted near parking and is handicap accessible. I think it is important for folks to keep in mind that the average Geocacher is not the average backpacker. While I am sure we have plenty of veteran backpackers among us, I am confident that we have plenty more Urbanites (otherwise known as city slickers with no outdoor skills) and we even have wheelchair bound cachers among us

 

So relative to the "Average" Geocacher and the "average" Geocaching event I don't think our 5/5 rating is a stretch.

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"Difficulty relates to the mental challenge of finding a cache."

 

Bingo. For this to be a 5 difficulty cache you would have to obfuscate the location in such a manner as actually finding the event would be really, really tough. Difficulty has nothing to do with training, supplies, grade of inclination, lack of food, or the proximity to a bade and hot water.

 

Terrain5 = I had to climb up the side of a mountain with ropes and equipment. I had to canoe across the lake to get to the island.

 

Difficulty5 = I had to solve a puzzle with 128 bit encryption, in French, backwards. I had to translate the Necronomicon into binary, add the sum of the 1's, then subtract that from the air speed of a European Variegated Barn Swallow just to get the longitude.

 

But honestly I don't have a dog in this race. Rate your caches how you see fit.

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"Difficulty relates to the mental challenge of finding a cache."

 

Bingo. For this to be a 5 difficulty cache you would have to obfuscate the location in such a manner as actually finding the event would be really, really tough. Difficulty has nothing to do with training, supplies, grade of inclination, lack of food, or the proximity to a bade and hot water.

 

ACTUALLY

According to geocaching.com THIS is the recommended test used to rate your cache. According to geocaching.com special equipment and knowledge can up the difficulty level. (not just the terrain)

 

Basically the first 6 questions help determine the terrain rating. Of course if you answer yes to the first question (is special equipment required) then you automatically get a Terrain rating of 5 regardless of how you answer questions 2-6

 

The last question basically determines the difficulty rating. So really this entire debate really boils down to that one question

 

(question 7)

How easy is it to find the cache?

-Cache is in plain sight or location is fairly obvious.

-Cache could be in one of several locations. Hunter may have to look for a while.

-Cache may be very well hidden, may be multi-leg, or may use clues to location.

-Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find

-Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, OR equipment. This is a serious mental OR physical challenge.

 

So the bottom line here is that if the last Answer is TRUE... -Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, OR equipment. This is a serious mental OR physical challenge. Then this is in fact a 5/5 cache listing according to geocaching.com. Of course I expect a few people will want to debate whether spending one night in a tent is "very specialized" skills and equipment and whether or not this is a "serious" mental or physical challenge or perhaps it is just a "normal" mental/physical challenge.

 

Again relative to the average geocacher and average geocaching event I believe the last answer to the last question is true. :D

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Of course I expect a few people will want to debate whether spending one night in a tent is "very specialized" skills and equipment and whether or not this is a "serious" mental or physical challenge or perhaps it is just a "normal" mental/physical challenge.

 

Again relative to the average geocacher and average geocaching event I believe the last answer to the last question is true. :grin:

 

Just my opinion, but don't consider anything I can buy at Wal-Mart to (tent, sleeping bag) be "specialized equipment". Now if the temp was around -30 and you had to go to a outfitters to get you a really effective sleeping bag and/or tent...

 

But like I said, rate your caches how you want to.

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Just my opinion, but don't consider anything I can buy at Wal-Mart to (tent, sleeping bag) be "specialized equipment". Now if the temp was around -30 and you had to go to a outfitters to get you a really effective sleeping bag and/or tent...

 

 

Castle Mischief,

 

So.... I can accept that I am not likely gonna get you to endorse the 5 difficulty.... But I am wondering if you would endorse a level 4 difficulty rating. Surely you would agree that this cache event does at a minimum require in-depth preparation and MAY require multiple days? According to the clayjar system (endorsed by Geocaching.com) these two factors alone would justify a difficulty rating of 4.

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So.... I can accept that I am not likely gonna get you to endorse the 5 difficulty.... But I am wondering if you would endorse a level 4 difficulty rating. Surely you would agree that this cache event does at a minimum require in-depth preparation and MAY require multiple days? According to the clayjar system (endorsed by Geocaching.com) these two factors alone would justify a difficulty rating of 4.

 

I wouldn't worry about trying to satisfy my interpretation or anybody else's. Rate it a 5 if you feel that's what it should be. The worst that will happen is that people may whisper about you at another event or lump you in with people that log their own caches or people that copy/paste logs. You know, the freaks. :)

 

But, yeah. I'd back a 4.

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So.... I can accept that I am not likely gonna get you to endorse the 5 difficulty.... But I am wondering if you would endorse a level 4 difficulty rating. Surely you would agree that this cache event does at a minimum require in-depth preparation and MAY require multiple days? According to the clayjar system (endorsed by Geocaching.com) these two factors alone would justify a difficulty rating of 4.

 

I wouldn't worry about trying to satisfy my interpretation or anybody else's. Rate it a 5 if you feel that's what it should be. The worst that will happen is that people may whisper about you at another event or lump you in with people that log their own caches or people that copy/paste logs. You know, the freaks. :)

 

But, yeah. I'd back a 4.

 

I am not that worried but I admit I was hoping for a little affirmation from you that we are not as far off as base as my first critic suggested in this thread. I believe he originally suggested that there was no reason for this event to be rated more than a 1 difficulty.

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I am not that worried but I admit I was hoping for a little affirmation from you that we are not as far off as base as my first critic suggested in this thread. I believe he originally suggested that there was no reason for this event to be rated more than a 1 difficulty.

Actually, I meant that arriving at a designated place at a designated time would be a "classic 1-star event". Re-reading my original post, it does appear that I was saying this should be a 1-star... but that was not my intent, and I apologize for the confusion. I would back a 3- or 4-star for one night away from civilization.

 

Also, "specialized equipment" keeps being mentioned as justification for a 5-star, but if you re-read the clayjar descriptions "specialized equipment" is for a 4-star. A 5-star required "very specialized ... equipment". As stated by others, the few items needed for a 1-night stay do not qualify as "very" specialized.

 

Change this to a mandatory 3-day wilderness campout and you've got a 5-star. I'll never agree that a single night on an isolated island, with a group of people, and with no predators would ever qualify as a 5-star.

 

Using your arguments, because the boat doesn't stay at the dock more than a few minutes and only visits once a day, ANY cache ever hidden on the island would require an overnight stay and would be rated as a 5-star difficulty. Even an ammo can painted day-glow orange and placed in plain sight 1/4 mile from the dock.

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J-way

thanks for clarifing your opinion

 

And I would agree with you that it is a stretch to call a tent "Very Specialized equipment". I don't think that there is any single part of of this cache listing that is extreme by itself (no extreme temperatures, no death defing rock climbing or hang gliding, no impossible puzzles etc]... But rather the sum of all the less than extreme factors that do make the event a serious Mental and physical challenge for the average cacher

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